goosebayguy
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B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:50 pm

If the recent accidents are indeed linked to the same cause I expect that any fix will take a bit of time to sort out and test. Meanwhile the production line will still be churning out two a day. Where will these be stored and how long before the airfield fills up? Will they be flown to a storage place in the desert?
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:55 pm

goosebayguy wrote:
If the recent accidents are indeed linked to the same cause I expect that any fix will take a bit of time to sort out and test. Meanwhile the production line will still be churning out two a day. Where will these be stored and how long before the airfield fills up? Will they be flown to a storage place in the desert?


If they are grounded, how can the be flown? Would each flight require a permit from the FAA? Would test pilots be required to move them?
 
brons2
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:21 pm

Flown as "Experimental"?
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
Sooner787
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:22 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
goosebayguy wrote:
If the recent accidents are indeed linked to the same cause I expect that any fix will take a bit of time to sort out and test. Meanwhile the production line will still be churning out two a day. Where will these be stored and how long before the airfield fills up? Will they be flown to a storage place in the desert?


If they are grounded, how can the be flown? Would each flight require a permit from the FAA? Would test pilots be required to move them?


Something would have to give. RNT & BFI would fill up in a big hurry.

Suppose they could fly them to Moses Lake or the desert if the FAA would allow flights of that distance.
 
Gazdon121
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:27 pm

Does boeing still have facilities at LGB?
 
many321
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:50 pm

Gazdon121 wrote:
Does boeing still have facilities at LGB?


Even though UPS submitted a bid, Boeing still owns the facilities at LGB.
 
CO953
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:57 pm

Gazdon121 wrote:
Does boeing still have facilities at LGB?

Plant closed in 2015, but AFAIK Boeing still owns the property.

More important question would be whether approaches to LGB would be permitted, especially as at least one of them goes directly over California State University Long Beach on final approach. Very populated area.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:03 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
goosebayguy wrote:
If the recent accidents are indeed linked to the same cause I expect that any fix will take a bit of time to sort out and test. Meanwhile the production line will still be churning out two a day. Where will these be stored and how long before the airfield fills up? Will they be flown to a storage place in the desert?


If they are grounded, how can the be flown? Would each flight require a permit from the FAA? Would test pilots be required to move them?


They are not grounded in the U.S.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:06 pm

Could store planes at VCV or Marana I guess
Go Cubs Go Hey Chicago whaddya say the Cubs are gonna win today
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:17 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
goosebayguy wrote:
If the recent accidents are indeed linked to the same cause I expect that any fix will take a bit of time to sort out and test. Meanwhile the production line will still be churning out two a day. Where will these be stored and how long before the airfield fills up? Will they be flown to a storage place in the desert?


If they are grounded, how can the be flown? Would each flight require a permit from the FAA? Would test pilots be required to move them?


They are not grounded in the U.S.


Not yet, but at least 3 senators so far are calling for them to be grounded.
 
Dominion301
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:38 pm

This might sound silly but I wonder if any airline with MAX 8s on order might be inclined to switch part of their order to NGs?
 
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Finn350
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:40 pm

Grounded for commercial passengers flights only. They can be ferried to the operators.
 
SNN99
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:43 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
This might sound silly but I wonder if any airline with MAX 8s on order might be inclined to switch part of their order to NGs?

No, NG production is due to be wound up early May.
 
LH707330
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:13 pm

If they do start having a backlog, I'm sure we'll see a NOTAM at Renton that taxiway B is closed for parking, they've done it in the past when the CFM LEAP issues resulted in a bunch of gliders.
 
Lpbri
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Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:57 pm

Boeing has previously found ingenious ways of storing 737s at Renton. If they run out of space at RNT, where else is there? BFI has some room. They just built a ramp on the west side of Marginal Way. What about PAE? Or other Boeing facilities such as Moses Lake or Palmdale? CHS?
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:03 pm

Paine would be my guess - isn't that were some of the 787s were stored?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
Armaghman
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:04 pm

Are they allowed to fly them?
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:05 pm

Armaghman wrote:
Are they allowed to fly them?


Yes. As I recall, the grounding order was for passenger carrying flights. So a ferry flight (empty cabin) would be permitted.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:05 pm

Test and positioning empty is allowed
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:07 pm

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere FI requested to get their 3 aircraft still in the US delivered to KEF when they're ready, because the final paintwork and seat-fitting is done in-house in their hangar Iceland and they might as well finish it and be ready when the grounding is lifted. Not sure if I remember it correctly though.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:49 pm

I would suspect that they could be stored at VCV, Marana, and Kingman for a few places that could handle a large number of planes.
Go Cubs Go Hey Chicago whaddya say the Cubs are gonna win today
 
Noshow
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:52 pm

Moses Lake would be close and come in handy.
 
smartplane
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:58 pm

For those owners who purchase 737's turnkey, with engines, if they take delivery, then final air frame and engine payments (less withholding payments), are going to be required. Can't see financiers keen to make those payments, and then having no income.

Also an issue with insurance. One thing to insure existing aircraft in a fleet, with lower premiums reflecting grounding, but another completely to add new 737's and insure for a delivery flight, then storage only.

Boeing will have cover to fly and park.

For customers completing separate air frame and engine deals, the engine OEM will want to deliver engines to Boeing, as this triggers another progress payment (short of entire aircraft delivery), but customers and financiers won't want to take delivery, for the same reasons.

Also, many customers using different financiers for progress payments, who know precisely when their funding will be repaid (taken out), on delivery. Now their funding is also grounded indefinitely (pardon the pun). So this group will be keen to see production suspended, or if not suspended, progress payment holidays.

Engine OEM also misses out on maintenance contract payments, as these include condition subsequent clauses which suspend payments (or greatly reduce to cover storage / housekeeping) if the owner / operator cannot use the engine (parts unavailable, global grounding, etc).

Only possible silver lining is for Airbus. LEAP engine deliveries should increase to the point CFM can catch up with Airbus contract, and even perhaps allow 1-2 PW to LEAP switches.

Expect some announcements to the market on the financial hit GE and Safran will take while 737 deliveries are suspended.

Finally, some suppliers will appreciate the ability to catch up with lagging production versus contracted deliveries, currently incurring penalties for late delivery. Now, they will be able to offset with penalty payments for suspended deliveries.

In hindsight, unfortunate Boeing has been so aggressive with share buybacks.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:33 pm

Given that ferry flights are permitted, some will probably head to their operator's base as scheduled and park until the grounding is lifted. For the rest, I suspect some combination of PAE, MWH and VCV if space runs out at RNT/BFI, which unfortunately, may not take long to happen with the current 737 production rate. It's worth noting that there are still NGs in the mix that will need ramp space for pre-delivery testing...
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:53 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
Paine would be my guess - isn't that were some of the 787s were stored?

Those spots are filled with KC-46s now.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:54 pm

I thought I saw an undelivered Comair MAX in Spokane the other day. Do some of them go there for outfitting? If so, there is plenty of space to park some there.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:37 pm

Spacepope wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
Paine would be my guess - isn't that were some of the 787s were stored?

Those spots are filled with KC-46s now.


That in itself is quite a telling situation. Man, Boeing is really struggling.
 
Tucker1
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:22 am

Stock up 1.57% Friday? Hardly think they’re struggling. Coming back stronger than ever, believe it or not. They won't have a problem finding spots to park them. They have more resources than people know.
 
Babyshark
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:40 am

Tucker1 wrote:
Stock up 1.57% Friday? Hardly think they’re struggling. Coming back stronger than ever, believe it or not. They won't have a problem finding spots to park them. They have more resources than people know.


I doubt they're celebrating their current situation.

Actually their stock has fallen a lot since March 1st. They lost $25,000,000,000 in value in one week. https://qz.com/1574813/737-max-crisis-e ... e=msn-news
 
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DBCoop3r
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:10 am

Moses Lake is the nice location where they can securely and conveniently test outside of the media's prying, I'd guess.
 
smartplane
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:48 am

Tucker1 wrote:
Stock up 1.57% Friday? Hardly think they’re struggling. Coming back stronger than ever, believe it or not. They have more resources than people know.

Good to know Boeing won't be able to play the 'too expensive' card, when the FAA and others list rectification requirements.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:49 am

They have been doing test flights at Moses of the Max since the grounding.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Where will Boeing park undelivered MAXs?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:12 am

DLASFlyer wrote:
I thought I saw an undelivered Comair MAX in Spokane the other day. Do some of them go there for outfitting? If so, there is plenty of space to park some there.


Boeing sends some 737s to GEG for paint, not sure about interior outfitting, but I doubt it. I know that particular frame was definitely there for paint. GEG probably has some space for storage too if needed, but there's so much room at MWH I'd be surprised if Boeing needed more than what's available there...hopefully, anyway...
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
goosebayguy
Topic Author
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:17 am

How many MAX's can be parked at Renton before production is affected?
 
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keesje
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:13 pm

goosebayguy wrote:
How many MAX's can be parked at Renton before production is affected?


Dozens, as was shown during earlier engine shortages. Apparently Boeing can fly them with special permission. Then they to do the standard first flights for system checks also. Which seems less likely. Several flights each day with current production rates.

A thread posted & locked before this one.
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1417835
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
fcogafa
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:43 pm

Looking at Moses Lake on Google, there is a massive ramp space where 100 or so could be parked
 
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litz
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:14 pm

fcogafa wrote:
Looking at Moses Lake on Google, there is a massive ramp space where 100 or so could be parked


At current production rate, that will last ... what ... only two months?
 
LDRA
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Re: B737 MAX Production storage during grounding.

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:16 pm

They will find a way to stack them

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