Armodeen
Posts: 1167
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:55 pm

Aviation737 wrote:
Is there any silver lining for Boeing? As a Boeing fan it hurts to see that some airlines might cancel their orders especially after how well they did last year


There is no silver lining, however medium term this has no major effect on the company.

Any cancellations will be replaced down the road, this is a short term problem only.
 
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GlobalAirways
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:03 am

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:59 pm

Carlos01 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Malaysia-to-review-Boeing-737-Max-orders-after-second-crash

Malaysian government is also reviewing their order


I really don't blame them. In the light of the events over the past 5 years, who in general public would volunteer to fly on a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 737-MAX?

That would be the equivalent of boarding an airship by Hindenburg Airways, with the vessel name Titanic, on a Friday the 13th, with the captain telling passengers with an evil smile that he is hearing voices who are commanding him.



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There is little difference in people, but that little difference makes a big difference. The little difference is attitude. The big difference is whether it is positive or negative. ~ W. Clement Stone
 
nairobby
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:59 am

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:07 pm

jfk777 wrote:
nairobby wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Could see A320 planes but the A330-900 or A350-900 would be too big for Kenya.Airways. The 787-8 is just right for their long haul operation to China, LHR, AMS & JFK.


A359 wouldn't be too big its similar capacity to the 772 which they operated in their most profitable era. In fact the 788's don't offer enough capacity for LHR/AMS


If the 787-8 is not big enough then there are the 787-9 and 787-10. Kenya Airways does not need a 16 hour capable 777 sized A350-900 for its flights to London and Amsterdam. Smaller is better for Kenya, it had several 77W for a while which proved way too big.

Yeah 787-9 would be perfect and would work for JFK which is premium heavy! Their loads on the European routes are very good even the Asia flights are usually full
 
tkoenig95
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:24 pm

I think the current livery would look great on an A320NEO!
 
ewt340
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:18 am

nairobby wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
nairobby wrote:

A359 wouldn't be too big its similar capacity to the 772 which they operated in their most profitable era. In fact the 788's don't offer enough capacity for LHR/AMS


If the 787-8 is not big enough then there are the 787-9 and 787-10. Kenya Airways does not need a 16 hour capable 777 sized A350-900 for its flights to London and Amsterdam. Smaller is better for Kenya, it had several 77W for a while which proved way too big.

Yeah 787-9 would be perfect and would work for JFK which is premium heavy! Their loads on the European routes are very good even the Asia flights are usually full


What they need to take account is during the off-season. Would they be able to fill B787-9?
Usually full and always full is 2 different thing. Their load factors across the board is around 72.3% in 2017. I don't think using larger aircraft would be a good idea.

Even their B737 have a really sparse configuration for its size compared to other airlines.
 
evanb
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:46 pm

ewt340 wrote:
What they need to take account is during the off-season. Would they be able to fill B787-9?
Usually full and always full is 2 different thing. Their load factors across the board is around 72.3% in 2017. I don't think using larger aircraft would be a good idea.


And even then, full means nothing. What revenue are they earning and what are their costs? KQs cost structure is outrageously high so even if they fill an aircraft it doesn't transpire to profit. Then add in the weight penalties on the westbound leg.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:38 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Looks like Kq now checking out the competition after the Max crash. They were in the market for 10 MAX -8’s previously.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -of-airbus



They check out the competition every time they consider new aircraft. Nothing new here to see.
 
ewt340
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:19 pm

evanb wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
What they need to take account is during the off-season. Would they be able to fill B787-9?
Usually full and always full is 2 different thing. Their load factors across the board is around 72.3% in 2017. I don't think using larger aircraft would be a good idea.


And even then, full means nothing. What revenue are they earning and what are their costs? KQs cost structure is outrageously high so even if they fill an aircraft it doesn't transpire to profit. Then add in the weight penalties on the westbound leg.


Uhmm, that's kind of my point.....
 
ewt340
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:20 pm

BravoOne wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Looks like Kq now checking out the competition after the Max crash. They were in the market for 10 MAX -8’s previously.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -of-airbus



They check out the competition every time they consider new aircraft. Nothing new here to see.


Well they don't check out the competition when they already ordered their replacement aircraft don't you think?
It's obviously related to the crash.
 
nairobby
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:59 am

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:45 am

evanb wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
What they need to take account is during the off-season. Would they be able to fill B787-9?
Usually full and always full is 2 different thing. Their load factors across the board is around 72.3% in 2017. I don't think using larger aircraft would be a good idea.


And even then, full means nothing. What revenue are they earning and what are their costs? KQs cost structure is outrageously high so even if they fill an aircraft it doesn't transpire to profit. Then add in the weight penalties on the westbound leg.


Always wondered why their costs are so high! Financing costs have significantly reduced post restructuring but they just can't seem to be able to address the other costs
 
evanb
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:22 am

nairobby wrote:
Always wondered why their costs are so high! Financing costs have significantly reduced post restructuring but they just can't seem to be able to address the other costs


Studying their financials over the years I've always been astounded by their labour costs. They employ a lot of people, way more than expected, but it's always difficult to compare numbers across airlines due to different strategies of insourcing versus outsourcing various functions. However, it wasn't just high staff numbers, but how much they pay them. Here is an interesting comparison from financial statements:

ET 2016/17: 11,284 employees, total labour costs of Birr 4,913,587,971 = Birr 435,447 per employe (about $15,300 per employee)
KQ 2017: 3,582 employees, total labour costs of KShs 15,448 million = KShs 4.3 million per employee (about $43,000 per employee)

I find that KQ number hard to believe, but it's genuinely from their annual financial statements!
 
c933103
Posts: 3688
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:26 am

For KQ, weren't them considering A220 even before Airbus acquire the model?
This is a placeholder.
 
nairobby
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:59 am

Re: Kenya Airways to consider Airbus models

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:09 am

evanb wrote:
nairobby wrote:
Always wondered why their costs are so high! Financing costs have significantly reduced post restructuring but they just can't seem to be able to address the other costs


Studying their financials over the years I've always been astounded by their labour costs. They employ a lot of people, way more than expected, but it's always difficult to compare numbers across airlines due to different strategies of insourcing versus outsourcing various functions. However, it wasn't just high staff numbers, but how much they pay them. Here is an interesting comparison from financial statements:

ET 2016/17: 11,284 employees, total labour costs of Birr 4,913,587,971 = Birr 435,447 per employe (about $15,300 per employee)
KQ 2017: 3,582 employees, total labour costs of KShs 15,448 million = KShs 4.3 million per employee (about $43,000 per employee)

I find that KQ number hard to believe, but it's genuinely from their annual financial statements!

That is actually crazy wow!

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