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passyflyer
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:51 am

Regarding Lufthansa and the A330neo. I think it is pretty unlikely that we will ever see the neo at the three main brands( Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian).

However there still is a chance at Eurowings, Edelweiss, Brussels Airlines or SunExpress which anyway is not integrated in the group.
 
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AECM
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:54 am

So currently we have in the LH fleet:

15 x A343
17 x A346
13 x B744

Total = 45 the same as the total A359 order

14 x A388
19 x B748

Total = 33 one less than the amount of B779 that will be positioned in FRA (34) according to LH CEO

Then the remaining WB fleet are the 17 x A333 (the oldest has around 15 years and the newest around 5 years).
Last edited by AECM on Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ronaldo747
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:58 am

Ronaldo747 wrote:
I also see all remaining A380 will go to MUC so A380/A359 in MUC and B747/777 in FRA make it simple.


Bingo ;-) https://twitter.com/lufthansaNews/statu ... 7802390529
 
trijetsonly
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10 am

Next interesting statement:
After 2023
777-9 will replace 747-8 on some routes and 747-8 will replace A380.

https://slidesync.com/XoAW1l1vbZ?locale=en


but as we are talking about things more than 4 years in the future, things may change until then...
Happy Landings
 
pabloeing
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:25 am

"If we wouldn't have the difficulties with @Airport_FRA our aircraft order yesterday would have been different. We are in talks with the airport but it just doesn't go forward, we don't believe it'll change in the short term
¿MORE B777X ORDER SOON?
 
pabloeing
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:26 am

¿Where fly the B744 and B748 LH fleet?
 
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Revelation
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:42 am

trijetsonly wrote:
keesje wrote:
Are the the 20x 777-9s still confirmed?

Quoting CEO Spohr from the ongoing press conference:
34 777-9 will come, initially to FRA.

First the BA order, now this.

Seems a lot of the negative things projected onto and amplified for the 777x were fake news.

Seems like Spohr's oft-quoted 777x comments really were just comments at a staff meeting leaked to the press, rather than operative statements.

Considering the A380 leaving LH's fleet sooner rather than later, seems that some statements about the enthusiasm for airlines running their frames out to the last hour/cycle should be revisited.

Seems like airlines are now free to reflect their actual need for A380s and 747-8i when the impact of more efficient big twins are taken in to account.

Seems this is making more of a market for 777x than some have suggested.
Last edited by Revelation on Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AECM
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:49 am

trijetsonly wrote:
Next interesting statement:
After 2023
777-9 will replace 747-8 on some routes and 747-8 will replace A380.

https://slidesync.com/XoAW1l1vbZ?locale=en


but as we are talking about things more than 4 years in the future, things may change until then...


Basically B748 will replace A388 routes and B77X will replace B748 routes out of FRA and eventually all of the 4 Hollers will be replaced by the B77X
 
pabloeing
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:24 am

¿more LH B777X order on official B777X roll out the next days in PAE?
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:46 am

trijetsonly wrote:
keesje wrote:
Are the the 20x 777-9s still confirmed?


Quoting CEO Spohr from the ongoing press conference:
34 777-9 will come, initially to FRA.


Did he actually say "34"?
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dare100em
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:54 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
trijetsonly wrote:
keesje wrote:
Are the the 20x 777-9s still confirmed?


Quoting CEO Spohr from the ongoing press conference:
34 777-9 will come, initially to FRA.


Did he actually say "34"?


The LH-page suggest 36 aquisitions between now and 2025 (2 are 77W for LX still outstanding):

https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... lotte.html
 
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Polot
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:06 pm

dare100em wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
trijetsonly wrote:

Quoting CEO Spohr from the ongoing press conference:
34 777-9 will come, initially to FRA.


Did he actually say "34"?


The LH-page suggest 36 aquisitions between now and 2025 (2 are 77W for LX still outstanding):

https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... lotte.html

Apparently still have 20 options as well, but I’m not sure those pages have been updated with the latest info.

English link to make things easier for everyone: https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... fleet.html
Last edited by Polot on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
pabloeing
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:07 pm

And is clear: 34 B777X from 2020 to 2025
 
LH779
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:09 pm

Polot wrote:
dare100em wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:

Did he actually say "34"?


The LH-page suggest 36 aquisitions between now and 2025 (2 are 77W for LX still outstanding):

https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... lotte.html

Apparently still have 20 options as well, but I’m not sure those pages have been updated with the latest info.

English link to make things easier for everyone: https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... fleet.html


That's from early 2018 though, without the new orders and airbus taking back 6 A388s.
 
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Polot
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:12 pm

LH779 wrote:
Polot wrote:
dare100em wrote:

The LH-page suggest 36 aquisitions between now and 2025 (2 are 77W for LX still outstanding):

https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... lotte.html

Apparently still have 20 options as well, but I’m not sure those pages have been updated with the latest info.

English link to make things easier for everyone: https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... fleet.html


That's from early 2018 though, without the new orders and airbus taking back 6 A388s.

Looking at their annual report it is actually what they state in their FY2018 report. But that was probably prepared before the decision was made to order more planes/return some A380s was finalized so not in the fleet guidance.
 
Bricktop
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:16 pm

trijetsonly wrote:
Next interesting statement:
After 2023
777-9 will replace 747-8 on some routes and 747-8 will replace A380.

https://slidesync.com/XoAW1l1vbZ?locale=en


but as we are talking about things more than 4 years in the future, things may change until then...

Indeed they may, but the frequent a.net punching bag 747-8i replacing the A380 is interesting.
Slowly but surely, but quicker than I would like, the quads are going bye-bye.
 
LH779
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:19 pm

Polot wrote:
LH779 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Apparently still have 20 options as well, but I’m not sure those pages have been updated with the latest info.

English link to make things easier for everyone: https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... fleet.html


That's from early 2018 though, without the new orders and airbus taking back 6 A388s.

Looking at their annual report it is actually what they state in their FY2018 report. But that was probably prepared before the decision was made to order more planes/return some A380s was finalized so not in the fleet guidance.


No, that fleet overview is from early 2018 for the 2017 report. It also doesn't include 12 A220s to LX, 2 77Ws to LX, 1 77E to OS and 6 A359s to LH, all these aircraft were delivered in 2018.
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:21 pm

Remember how early 748 came out overweight?

I wonder if Boeing would be willing to take certain B748 back from LH, sort of like a ultra D Check, put them on a diet, upgrade them where possible from nose to tail, and give the engines a second (or even third) PIP that the 787 engines have received.
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:33 pm

Bricktop wrote:
trijetsonly wrote:
Next interesting statement:
After 2023
777-9 will replace 747-8 on some routes and 747-8 will replace A380.

https://slidesync.com/XoAW1l1vbZ?locale=en


but as we are talking about things more than 4 years in the future, things may change until then...

Indeed they may, but the frequent a.net punching bag 747-8i replacing the A380 is interesting.
Slowly but surely, but quicker than I would like, the quads are going bye-bye.


The strategy of LH Group is clearly to replace 4 engined frames wherever justified by a full economic analysis. On that basis I doubt the 748s will last as long as the 744s did, though they will clearly outlive at least 6 of the 388s.

It will be interesting to see if the A388s traded back to Airbus are LH's earliest or latest deliveries. If the former, scrapping may follow. If the latter, selling-on will look more likely - IAG?
 
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Polot
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:33 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Remember how early 748 came out overweight?

I wonder if Boeing would be willing to take certain B748 back from LH, sort of like a ultra D Check, put them on a diet, upgrade them where possible from nose to tail, and give the engines a second (or even third) PIP that the 787 engines have received.

I don’t see Boeing going through that expense. They would probably prefer to just buy the planes back and sell more 779s if LH was no longer interested in the heavy 748s.

LH779 wrote:
Polot wrote:
LH779 wrote:

That's from early 2018 though, without the new orders and airbus taking back 6 A388s.

Looking at their annual report it is actually what they state in their FY2018 report. But that was probably prepared before the decision was made to order more planes/return some A380s was finalized so not in the fleet guidance.


No, that fleet overview is from early 2018 for the 2017 report. It also doesn't include 12 A220s to LX, 2 77Ws to LX, 1 77E to OS and 6 A359s to LH, all these aircraft were delivered in 2018.

My mistake, I wasnt focused on the current fleet just the future fleet which apparently did not change much from end of year 2017 to end of year 2018.
 
Kilopond
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:34 pm

Unfortunately, the above links are somewhat obsolete. Today‘s annual report contains a fleet overview as of December 31st 2018. Go to page 20:

https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... uU2qtT.pdf
 
trijetsonly
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:40 pm

Polot wrote:
I don’t see Boeing going through that expense. They would probably prefer to just buy the planes back and sell more 779s if LH was no longer interested in the heavy 748s.

LH779 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Looking at their annual report it is actually what they state in their FY2018 report. But that was probably prepared before the decision was made to order more planes/return some A380s was finalized so not in the fleet guidance.


No, that fleet overview is from early 2018 for the 2017 report. It also doesn't include 12 A220s to LX, 2 77Ws to LX, 1 77E to OS and 6 A359s to LH, all these aircraft were delivered in 2018.

My mistake, I wasnt focused on the current fleet just the future fleet which apparently did not change much from end of year 2017 to end of year 2018.


But in their 2019 report for 2018 that is updated.

https://investor-relations.lufthansagroup.com/fileadmin/downloads/en/financial-reports/annual-reports/LH-AR-2018-e_dkuU2qtT.pdf#page=24
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:45 pm

trijetsonly wrote:
Polot wrote:
I don’t see Boeing going through that expense. They would probably prefer to just buy the planes back and sell more 779s if LH was no longer interested in the heavy 748s.

LH779 wrote:

No, that fleet overview is from early 2018 for the 2017 report. It also doesn't include 12 A220s to LX, 2 77Ws to LX, 1 77E to OS and 6 A359s to LH, all these aircraft were delivered in 2018.

My mistake, I wasnt focused on the current fleet just the future fleet which apparently did not change much from end of year 2017 to end of year 2018.


But in their 2019 report for 2018 that is updated.

https://investor-relations.lufthansagroup.com/fileadmin/downloads/en/financial-reports/annual-reports/LH-AR-2018-e_dkuU2qtT.pdf#page=24


Yep, page 20 lists 34 77X.

No mention of 787, though.
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Kilopond
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:53 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
[...]

Yep, page 20 lists 34 77X.

No mention of 787, though.


Today's report reflects the inventory as of December 31st 2018, so there can't be any 787 yet.
 
trijetsonly
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:54 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
trijetsonly wrote:
Polot wrote:
I don’t see Boeing going through that expense. They would probably prefer to just buy the planes back and sell more 779s if LH was no longer interested in the heavy 748s.


My mistake, I wasnt focused on the current fleet just the future fleet which apparently did not change much from end of year 2017 to end of year 2018.


But in their 2019 report for 2018 that is updated.

https://investor-relations.lufthansagroup.com/fileadmin/downloads/en/financial-reports/annual-reports/LH-AR-2018-e_dkuU2qtT.pdf#page=24


Yep, page 20 lists 34 77X.

No mention of 787, though.


Yes, because it reflects the status of 31st Dec. 2018, even though it's published on 14th Mar. 2019.
So theoretically, if the purchase of the 787 was done in exchange with orders for the 777-9, that wouldn't be reflected there.
But for that we have the new CEO statement that he is expecting 34 777-9. It might be possible though that the additional 20 purchase rights/options for the 777-9 have been altered with the purchase of the 787-9.
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brons2
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:59 pm

Polot wrote:
LH Technik already does work on the 787, yes.


LH Technik was one of the first organizations that signed up to be a GoldCare provider for Boeing on the 787.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
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crimsonchin
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:22 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Remember how early 748 came out overweight?

I wonder if Boeing would be willing to take certain B748 back from LH, sort of like a ultra D Check, put them on a diet, upgrade them where possible from nose to tail, and give the engines a second (or even third) PIP that the 787 engines have received.


Thank heavens like your LH will "never" take A330neo prediction, Airlines don't work on the fantasies of Boeing fanboys
 
dare100em
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:26 pm

Kilopond wrote:
Unfortunately, the above links are somewhat obsolete. Today‘s annual report contains a fleet overview as of December 31st 2018. Go to page 20:

https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... uU2qtT.pdf


The link is on spot regarding the 777, 36 total comming including the 2 77W for LX and 34 777-9 comming. It would have been removed if they didn't intend to aquire 34 779 anymore.

Of course 787 and A220 are missing ....
 
YellowJ
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:40 pm

masA380 wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
The B787 will be in LH colors. A A339 will never be. Mark my words.

Well, no one expected EK to buy A330neo. I’d say never say never. It’s still too early to dismiss.


Including EK themselves who had to shift deposits after the A380 was discontinued.
 
Asiaflyer
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:48 pm

AECM wrote:
So currently we have in the LH fleet:

15 x A343
17 x A346
13 x B744

Total = 45 the same as the total A359 order

14 x A388
19 x B748

Total = 33 one less than the amount of B779 that will be positioned in FRA (34) according to LH CEO

Then the remaining WB fleet are the 17 x A333 (the oldest has around 15 years and the newest around 5 years).

I respectfully think you forgot that LH already have 12 A350 in their fleet, so there are "only" 33 more A350 to come which nicely covers the remaining 32 A340 models.
Hence I believe that the 779s will replace the 744.
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:53 pm

So, yes, 34 779 are coming.
No, 14 779 options were NOT used to buy 20 789.
I am also willing to bet my participation/membership on this forum that the order for 20 789 is only an initial order for the group. I expect at least one more order for 15-30 copies for the group to follow.
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columba
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:59 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
So, yes, 34 779 are coming.
No, 14 779 options were NOT used to buy 20 789.
I am also willing to bet my participation/membership on this forum that the order for 20 789 is only an initial order for the group. I expect at least one more order for 15-30 copies for the group to follow.

Safe bet with LH as they traditionally placing additional orders of around 20 aircraft and later order more (A380 and 747-8I being the exception).
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:03 pm

I think it is obvious that the entire group will be built around the A22X and A32Xneo for the NB and the B789/A359/B779 for WB.

Question is, does this leave a gap for the NMA / B796 or B797?
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PixelPilot
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:15 pm

columba wrote:
If you read the press release in full:
"With the Airbus A350-900, the Boeing 777-9 and the Boeing 787-9, Lufthansa Group will own the most fuel-efficient long-haul aircraft of their class in terms of kerosene consumption per passenger and 100 kilometers flown."
"In addition to this, Lufthansa Group will be significantly reducing the diversification and complexity of its fleet over the next few years and taking seven aircraft types out of service, which will reduce cost and complexity for maintenance and the supply of replacement parts, among other things." You get the impression that LH plans with a longhaul fleet consisting of only 787,A350 and 777 (7 types replaced A340-300, A340-600, 767-300, 777-200, 747-400 being the 5 most obvious leaves two more types for the future 747-8 and A380 maybe ??? or are smaller Jets like the Embraer included)


I have a feeling the 748 will stay there for a while and in fact might outlive the 380 in LH.
After that the 789/350/77x seems legit.
 
michi
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:38 pm

I guess that all the 4 engined aircraft will leave LH before the first D-Check.

2022 fits for the A380.
 
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Revelation
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:45 pm

RalXWB wrote:
There go the 779X options... :stirthepot:

I guess you were right, they're no longer in the optional state... :stirthepot:

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
So, yes, 34 779 are coming.
No, 14 779 options were NOT used to buy 20 789.
I am also willing to bet my participation/membership on this forum that the order for 20 789 is only an initial order for the group. I expect at least one more order for 15-30 copies for the group to follow.

:checkmark:

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
I think it is obvious that the entire group will be built around the A22X and A32Xneo for the NB and the B789/A359/B779 for WB.

Question is, does this leave a gap for the NMA / B796 or B797?

LH used to happily run A300s on various short/heavy routes.

NMA should be great in that role.

QF's CEO talks enthusiastically of using NMA on MEL-SYD-BNE yet he has Jetstar A321s at his disposal.

So, it would not surprise me.
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N328KF
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:45 pm

michi wrote:
I guess that all the 4 engined aircraft will leave LH before the first D-Check.

2022 fits for the A380.


That's not necessarily true for either, but a key difference between the 747-8I and the A380 is that parts for the 747-8I will be available for some time. It has substantial commonality with the freighter, which will be in production at least a few more years. The engines also have some commonality with the 787. The supply chain situation is drastically different.
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LH779
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:50 pm

Revelation wrote:
RalXWB wrote:
There go the 779X options... :stirthepot:

I guess you were right, they're no longer in the optional state... :stirthepot:

Was there some sort of press release by either Boeing or LH stating they firmed the last 14? If not there's no news. LH always had 34 779s in their fleet overview in the financial reports but only 20 in Boeing's order book.
 
9Patch
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:51 pm

L0VE2FLY wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Why does everyone assume the 787 is for everyone but LH? Why are certain forum members so afraid of a 787 in LH colors?


I'm afraid of the 787 in any colors! Boeing took away from me the only thing I love about flying, looking out the window and enjoying the beauty of the world from high altitude, their stupid dimming windows that allow the crew to force close them whenever they like is the worst. So disappointed to see the 787 joining the LH Group and hope they won't send it to my home airport.


I thought the passenger was still able to see out the window even when its dimmed?
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:02 pm

LH779 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
RalXWB wrote:
There go the 779X options... :stirthepot:

I guess you were right, they're no longer in the optional state... :stirthepot:

Was there some sort of press release by either Boeing or LH stating they firmed the last 14? If not there's no news. LH always had 34 779s in their fleet overview in the financial reports but only 20 in Boeing's order book.


According to a previous post, Spohr mentioned "34" in the press conference today. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
© 2019. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
LH779
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:06 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
LH779 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I guess you were right, they're no longer in the optional state... :stirthepot:

Was there some sort of press release by either Boeing or LH stating they firmed the last 14? If not there's no news. LH always had 34 779s in their fleet overview in the financial reports but only 20 in Boeing's order book.


According to a previous post, Spohr mentioned "34" in the press conference today. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


"Up to 34", which is basically the same wording he used in the last few years. Doesn't mean they won't take 34, just doesn't mean they firmed up the last 14.
 
marcelh
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:09 pm

Revelation wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Remember how early 748 came out overweight?

I wonder if Boeing would be willing to take certain B748 back from LH, sort of like a ultra D Check, put them on a diet, upgrade them where possible from nose to tail, and give the engines a second (or even third) PIP that the 787 engines have received.


Thank heavens like your LH will "never" take A330neo prediction, Airlines don't work on the fantasies of Boeing fanboys

Earlier in this thread we read that it was "clear" that the 789 orders meant the 14 777x options were used to get 789s.

Thank heavens Airlines don't work on the fantasies of Airbus fanboys either, right?

Boeing PR Dept. has spoken
 
brindabella
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:32 pm

LH779 wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
LH779 wrote:
Was there some sort of press release by either Boeing or LH stating they firmed the last 14? If not there's no news. LH always had 34 779s in their fleet overview in the financial reports but only 20 in Boeing's order book.


According to a previous post, Spohr mentioned "34" in the press conference today. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


"Up to 34", which is basically the same wording he used in the last few years. Doesn't mean they won't take 34, just doesn't mean they firmed up the last 14.


Actually I confidently expect that our "housefly" member will soon correct us all.

He will elucidate that this euphoria is entirely misplaced, per one misplaced decimal point:

So that in fact the 777-9 order is not for 34 frames. Nope. :shakehead:

But sadly, it is rather for 3.4 frames.(!)

NB!!

So business as usual and the 777X project is still doomed.
Even before rollout.
As he has indeed been propagandizing for years now.

But that's the breaks, I guess! :bouncy:

cheers
Billy
 
kimimm19
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:32 pm

The thing is, LX have just recorded their largest profit ever and it's been attributed to larger planes (77Ws) and with ZRH becoming more and more restricted and congested, it indicates that unless LH is trying to subdue LX growth in favour of LH (wouldn't surprise me) then larger airplanes are the way to go >>> A350. Which can handle all of LX's longhaul routes, unlike the 787-10 which is the logical step up if they go with the 789....
 
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frigatebird
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:34 pm

Asiaflyer wrote:
AECM wrote:
So currently we have in the LH fleet:

15 x A343
17 x A346
13 x B744

Total = 45 the same as the total A359 order

14 x A388
19 x B748

Total = 33 one less than the amount of B779 that will be positioned in FRA (34) according to LH CEO

Then the remaining WB fleet are the 17 x A333 (the oldest has around 15 years and the newest around 5 years).

I respectfully think you forgot that LH already have 12 A350 in their fleet, so there are "only" 33 more A350 to come which nicely covers the remaining 32 A340 models.
Hence I believe that the 779s will replace the 744.

:checkmark: I think we can conclude the remaining A350 on order plus the 20 now ordered will take care of A343/A346 replacement for LH. 777X should replace 13x 744 and 6x A388.
That leaves the 787. Now that it is confirmed the 763 and 77E will leave the fleet, I do expect OS should get 12x 787 as replacement. I know Spohr mentioned OS had to perform better before they could invest in new aircraft, maybe he is satisfied now, or perhaps he realizes will perform better with new aircraft ;-) I would be very surprised if they make OS invest in hand me down A333 from LH or LX, that certainly won't help their cause.
So probably the final 8 787 will go to LX.

And when time is ripe for A333 replacement for LH/LX, I expect the 787-10 will have another chance.

N328KF wrote:
michi wrote:
I guess that all the 4 engined aircraft will leave LH before the first D-Check.

2022 fits for the A380.


That's not necessarily true for either, but a key difference between the 747-8I and the A380 is that parts for the 747-8I will be available for some time. It has substantial commonality with the freighter, which will be in production at least a few more years. The engines also have some commonality with the 787. The supply chain situation is drastically different.

I believe there will plenty of A380 available as parts only in the next decade though :duck:
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
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seahawk
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:40 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
The thing is, LX have just recorded their largest profit ever and it's been attributed to larger planes (77Ws) and with ZRH becoming more and more restricted and congested, it indicates that unless LH is trying to subdue LX growth in favour of LH (wouldn't surprise me) then larger airplanes are the way to go >>> A350. Which can handle all of LX's longhaul routes, unlike the 787-10 which is the logical step up if they go with the 789....



LH is very clear in the regard, if you earn money you grow, if you do not you do not.
 
george77300
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:48 pm

Lufthansa have been very clear today they have ordered 34 x B777-9X but only 20 on the Boeing order book. This means Boeing should get another order for the 777X firmed at some point. (Along with the IAG order for 18)
 
YellowJ
Posts: 126
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:24 pm

9Patch wrote:
L0VE2FLY wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Why does everyone assume the 787 is for everyone but LH? Why are certain forum members so afraid of a 787 in LH colors?


I'm afraid of the 787 in any colors! Boeing took away from me the only thing I love about flying, looking out the window and enjoying the beauty of the world from high altitude, their stupid dimming windows that allow the crew to force close them whenever they like is the worst. So disappointed to see the 787 joining the LH Group and hope they won't send it to my home airport.


I thought the passenger was still able to see out the window even when its dimmed?


They can still see indeed. In fact crew usually forces you to close traditional window shades on most TPAC/TATL flights, so he wouldn't have seen anything at all. The 787 still allows you to see outside while blocking most of the bothersome sunlight during cabin service. Not sure what he's rambling on about.
 
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Revelation
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:28 pm

LH779 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
RalXWB wrote:
There go the 779X options... :stirthepot:

I guess you were right, they're no longer in the optional state... :stirthepot:

Was there some sort of press release by either Boeing or LH stating they firmed the last 14? If not there's no news. LH always had 34 779s in their fleet overview in the financial reports but only 20 in Boeing's order book.

The news is that the 779X options aren't gone, contrary to some suggestions in this thread.

Pedantically yours,
Rev.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
mxaxai
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Re: LH orders 20 B789 and 20 additional A350; Will sell 6 A380s back to Airbus

Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:33 pm

frigatebird wrote:
AECM wrote:
So currently we have in the LH fleet:

15 x A343
17 x A346
13 x B744

Total = 45 the same as the total A359 order

14 x A388
19 x B748

Total = 33 one less than the amount of B779 that will be positioned in FRA (34) according to LH CEO

:checkmark: I think we can conclude the remaining A350 on order plus the 20 now ordered will take care of A343/A346 replacement for LH. 777X should replace 13x 744 and 6x A388.
That leaves the 787. Now that it is confirmed the 763 and 77E will leave the fleet, I do expect OS should get 12x 787 as replacement. I know Spohr mentioned OS had to perform better before they could invest in new aircraft, maybe he is satisfied now, or perhaps he realizes will perform better with new aircraft ;-) I would be very surprised if they make OS invest in hand me down A333 from LH or LX, that certainly won't help their cause.
So probably the final 8 787 will go to LX.

Lets look at the whole group according to the investor report:

56 A330
26 A340-300
17 A340-600
12 A350
14 A380

13 747-400
19 747-8
6 767-300ER
6 777-200ER
10 777-300ER

33 A359 to be delivered. That accounts for 17 A346 and 16 A343.
20 789 to be delivered. That accounts for 6 76W, 6 77E and 8 A343.*
2 77W to be delivered. That accounts for another 2 A343.
34 779 to be delivered. That accounts for 13 744 and 6 A388 (ratio 1:1.5).

Unaccounted deliveries:

12 779
2 A333

I'll assume that the A333 order is either for replacement of older A330s or for minor expansion.
12 779 would be just enough to replace the remaining A388 fleet capacity wise. Alternatively, they could halve the 748 fleet but at that point they might as well keep the current A380 to get rid of the 748 altogether. A third alternative could be an early replacement of LX' 77W, but that's even less likely.

So by 2025 the fleet could look like:

56 A330
45 A350-900

20 787-9
12 777-300ER
34 777-9
19 747-8

That leaves the A330, 77W and 748 fleets without a replacement. Overall order volume for that would be ~ 60 medium widebodies and ~ 40 large widebodies. Plus some for growth. I guess Airbus and Boeing still have something to fight for.


*note how this almost exactly matches the needs of OS and LX. If LH wants some 787 for themselves they'll have to order more.
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