MCTSET
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A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:51 pm

Well in Europe apart from Vueling there isn’t really any LCC using a hub? Is the a fundamental reason for this?
 
Galwayman
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:56 pm

Pegasus runs a mega hub lcc operation . ( Yes SAW is in Europe )
 
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airzim
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:02 pm

Hubs add significant costs essentially breaking the LCC model. Connections, baggage, crew and fleet scheduling, etc. Historically connection patterns begin to emerge as their networks grow, and passengers can self select connections, but generally LCCs don’t explicitly encourage or promote this behavior and make no guarantees.

Once they do, I surmise they are no longer LCCs. Just low fare airlines.
 
VFRonTop
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:08 pm

European LCC operate a very competitive point-to-point network.
Hubbing creates:
- Dependency (Hub airport gains a very strong bargaining chip in negotiations)
- Complexity (large ground service operation at Hub airport, flight banking causing poor utilisation of assets and congestion at peak times) and
- Passenger responsibility (risk to network of high impact event at Hub, rerouting mis-connects, luggage transfers, complex ticketing, etc.)

All of the above cost money that P2P avoids.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:14 pm

WOW air obviously has a hub in KEF. While owned by LH, I'd guess EW qualifies as a LCC, so their hubs in Germany such as DUS, CGN and STR probably count as well.
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EightyFour
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:03 pm

Wouldn't Norwegian count as a hubbed, or at least partially hubbed LCC? I've connected with them a lot through OSL, and they do sell connecting tickets through other airports as well like LGW.
 
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hispanola
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:22 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Pegasus runs a mega hub lcc operation . ( Yes SAW is in Europe )


IST is in Europe, SAW is in Asia.

WN, F9, and NK in the U.S. have somewhat of a hub system, though I WN would rather call them "focus cities" or some term other than "hub." Think of LAS, DEN, BNA, BWI, MCO, MDW, and others.
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Aliqiout
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:36 pm

airzim wrote:
Hubs add significant costs essentially breaking the LCC model. Connections, baggage, crew and fleet scheduling, etc. Historically connection patterns begin to emerge as their networks grow, and passengers can self select connections, but generally LCCs don’t explicitly encourage or promote this behavior and make no guarantees.

Once they do, I surmise they are no longer LCCs. Just low fare airlines.

Most consider F9 and NK to be LCC, and protected single ticket connections are offered. Some still consider WN to be a LCC, and they are heavily dependent on connections.

I think LCC connections are less common on Europe becasue of the higher population density. In Europe it is much easier to create a schedule that provides nonstop service between airports that are close enough to the O&D of the majority of passengers that they can rely on ground transportation for the remainder of their trip.
 
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spinotter
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:00 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Pegasus runs a mega hub lcc operation . ( Yes SAW is in Europe )


No it is not.
 
Beechtobus
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:31 pm

hispanola wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Pegasus runs a mega hub lcc operation . ( Yes SAW is in Europe )


IST is in Europe, SAW is in Asia.

WN, F9, and NK in the U.S. have somewhat of a hub system, though I WN would rather call them "focus cities" or some term other than "hub." Think of LAS, DEN, BNA, BWI, MCO, MDW, and others.


Agreed. Not sure the what the stigma is with these airlines calling their main cities hubs. Southwest has 220ish departures from Denver for example. They connect passengers through Denver, they have a pilot and flight attendant base in Denver, and they contribute significantly to the local econonomy. Yet they don’t call it a hub, they call it a focus city. United does the exact same thing in Denver, and they call it a hub. I have not been convinced of the delineation that makes Southwests large cities not-hubs.
 
SCQ83
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:40 pm

Ryanair offers some connections in FCO, BGY and OPO.

https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful-in ... ng-flights

A good candidate would be Wizz Air in BUD. They have many destinations (including many odd/secondary destinations in Eastern Europe) so it would be interesting for East-West traffic.
 
FlyingHollander
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:12 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
A good candidate would be Wizz Air in BUD. They have many destinations (including many odd/secondary destinations in Eastern Europe) so it would be interesting for East-West traffic.

I agree there is some potential here. BUD is centrally located, has decent O&D and doesn't have legacy competition (hubbed at BUD). It would be nice to see Wizz offer connections here with the network currently served.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
fjhc
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:13 pm

Ryanair offer protected connections too. Just looking at flights out of Manchester, there are a number of Italian cities and Athens routed via Milan Bergamo (BGY). While I wouldn't say that Ryanair operate a hub-and-spoke model, by some definitions BGY is acting as a hub!
 
THY748i
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:41 pm

All the „SAW is in Europe!“, „No it‘s not!“ aside, PC has a vast European network for connections to the ME and Central Asia, located right next to Europe (geographically speakimg). Turks could (and some are) converse all day about where Turkey belongs to, but that‘s not the point here. PC might be the biggest connecting LCC operating in Europe (me not knowing how many DY routes are sold exclusively as P2P).
 
c933103
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:59 pm

VFRonTop wrote:
European LCC operate a very competitive point-to-point network.
Hubbing creates:
- Dependency (Hub airport gains a very strong bargaining chip in negotiations)
- Complexity (large ground service operation at Hub airport, flight banking causing poor utilisation of assets and congestion at peak times) and
- Passenger responsibility (risk to network of high impact event at Hub, rerouting mis-connects, luggage transfers, complex ticketing, etc.)

All of the above cost money that P2P avoids.

But many Asian LCC like those that are in Korea and also the like of AirAsia or Scoot seems to promote such way of ticketing that some of them even offered some sort of protection against missed connection, despite the pricing strategy of them are usually very different from legacy FSC and calculate price for each flight tickets individually.
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:20 pm

Let's not forget WOW Air. They might not be in their best shape, but they're not dead yet and they're definitely a hubbed LCC.

However, the strength of their hub appeared to be their weakness. Lots of flights were delayed, so when flying WOW Air you were bound to miss your connection. This resulted in a lot of stranded passengers needing to be rebooked on later flights. Should the passengers have booked both legs separately, this would have been a problem for the passengers. But because they booked them as connections, it became the problem of WOW Air.

Norwegian offers the possibility of hubbing with them, but since they charge per leg plus a transfer fee it's mostly cheaper to make a self-transfer. Their on-time performance is relatively good, so there's little risk of a missed connection.

Of course there's always the possibility of a self-connection, in which case it doesn't matter which airline you use. You can pick the cheapest for each leg, regardless if this is the same airline or two different airlines. Less than half a year ago I flew Copenhagen to Los Angeles on Norwegian, but being Dutch I first had to get from the Netherlands to Copenhagen. Should I have been bound to Norwegian, my only choice for that was Norwegian from Amsterdam to Copenhagen. However Transavia from Eindhoven to Copenhagen was cheaper, so I picked that instead. It took me to Copenhagen just as well, and I got my connection to Los Angeles.
 
Someone83
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm

EightyFour wrote:
Wouldn't Norwegian count as a hubbed, or at least partially hubbed LCC? I've connected with them a lot through OSL, and they do sell connecting tickets through other airports as well like LGW.


Yes, while not all their operations, OSL, CPH, ARN and LGW is run a "proper" hub and connections play an important part. Other places can also be defined as minor hub

In addition to OSL-CPH-AGP once, I've also flown OSL-BGO-AGP with them, all with connection tickets
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm

c933103 wrote:
But many Asian LCC like those that are in Korea and also the like of AirAsia or Scoot seems to promote such way of ticketing that some of them even offered some sort of protection against missed connection, despite the pricing strategy of them are usually very different from legacy FSC and calculate price for each flight tickets individually.


Norwegian does that too. They charge per leg plus a transfer fee. If you want to save money, just book each leg individually and you save out the transfer fee. Plus of course if for one of your legs you can get a cheaper ticket on another airline, you can easily switch. You're not obligated to book both legs with the same airline.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:38 pm

FlyingHollander wrote:
I agree there is some potential here. BUD is centrally located, has decent O&D and doesn't have legacy competition (hubbed at BUD). It would be nice to see Wizz offer connections here with the network currently served.


LOT Polish Airlines is slowly setting up a hub at Budapest, so that's their legacy competition. Of course the presence of Wizzair in Budapest is much bigger.

I agree there's potential for a low-cost hub at Budapest, but it would require some changes in the infrastructure of the airport. As it currently is, the LCC flights have no option to stay airside upon arrival.

Another thing that makes hubbing more expensive than O/D is luggage handling. When a non-hubbed flight arrives, you can simply put all the luggage from the plane on the belt without having to check it. When a hubbed flight arrives, you have to check every piece of luggage. Does it go on the belt or does it have to be forwarded? Therefor luggage handlers charge more for hubbed flights than for non-hubbed flights.

However it would of course be possible to sell pre-arranged self-connections through the website of an LCC. You simply buy two connecting flights at once, but they're not connected together. You buy the regular ticket price of both flights and you need to collect and re-check your luggage at the hub airport. You are responsible for making your connection, the airline only suggested it to you on their website.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:02 pm

I know this thread is talking about European LCCs, but in Asia, LCCs using hubs isn't uncommon. You have perhaps most notably AirAsia and KLIA, but there are also others like Scoot and Singapore, Lion and Jakarta, Cebu Pacific and Manila, among others. KLIA even has a large terminal used for LCCs and said terminal is used as a hub of operations. It's been years though since I flew on an LCC, but to my knowledge the LCCs here do sell connections (correct me if I'm wrong).
 
Deltabravo1123
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:31 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Yes SAW is in Europe


lol

Mercury must be in retrograde.
 
Noise
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:11 am

Galwayman wrote:
Pegasus runs a mega hub lcc operation . ( Yes SAW is in Europe )


SAW is not in Europe. Take a geography class.
 
Cunard
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:19 am

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Yes SAW is in Europe


lol

Mercury must be in retrograde.


:-) :-) :-)
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Galwayman
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:25 am

Omg what was I thinking ... way too much coffee... SAW = not in Europe :-(
 
B747forever
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:29 am

Galwayman wrote:
Omg what was I thinking ... way too much coffee... SAW = not in Europe :-(


See what you did, next time cut down on the coffee before posting ;)
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
Cunard
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:45 am

B747forever wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Omg what was I thinking ... way too much coffee... SAW = not in Europe :-(


See what you did, next time cut down on the coffee before posting ;)


Or blaming the coffee for an obvious mistake especially as it was put across in such a determined fashion

''yes SAW is in Europe''

I have on average 16 mugs of coffee a day, it's 00.45 here in the UK and I'm still drinking coffee, it doesn't affect me though :-)
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Karlsands
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:07 am

Early 2000s frontier in Denver is a proper example
 
airtrantpa
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:47 am

Airtran was a lcc and had hubs in ATL, BWI and MKE (To an extent, but did offer connections)

YX had huns in MKE and MCI if u want to consider midwest a LCC
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PR77W
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:51 am

Here in the philippines Cebu Pacific has MNL as its main hub which connects passengers from international to domestic flights or domestic to international flights, not sure if they do international connections though? Aside from MNL. 5J also operates a number of secondary hubs, BCD, CEB, CGY, CRK, DVO and ILO. Though they act more as a point-to-point O&D destination then as an actual hub.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:06 am

Colombian VH does sell connecting flights also with stop-over.
When it flew to BLB (Panama City Howard Panamá Pacífico) it had the cheapest fares betweeen Panamá and LIM via MDE or BOG.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
OB1504
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:36 am

hispanola wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Pegasus runs a mega hub lcc operation . ( Yes SAW is in Europe )


IST is in Europe, SAW is in Asia.

WN, F9, and NK in the U.S. have somewhat of a hub system, though I WN would rather call them "focus cities" or some term other than "hub." Think of LAS, DEN, BNA, BWI, MCO, MDW, and others.


I would consider FLL to be Spirit’s only true hub because they have directional banks of flights timed specifically for connections. At the other focus cities, the connections just seem to sort of happen without being specifically planned for.
 
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AirIndia
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:26 am

Look at Air Arabia. They run a nice little hub in SHJ and also have subsidiaries flying from other Hubs in Egypt & Morroco.
 
PR77W
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:23 am

I also want to add Air Asia (AK) and Air Asia X (D7) in KUL which is there main hub and Scoot Air in SIN.
 
debonair
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:27 am

MCTSET wrote:
Well in Europe apart from Vueling there isn’t really any LCC using a hub? Is the a fundamental reason for this?


Not true at all, EUROWINGS offers connecting flights not only through their hubs (DUS/VIE/STR) but also through all their bases like HAM/CGN etc.!
 
Galwayman
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:06 pm

Cunard wrote:
B747forever wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Omg what was I thinking ... way too much coffee... SAW = not in Europe :-(


See what you did, next time cut down on the coffee before posting ;)


Or blaming the coffee for an obvious mistake especially as it was put across in such a determined fashion

''yes SAW is in Europe''

I have on average 16 mugs of coffee a day, it's 00.45 here in the UK and I'm still drinking coffee, it doesn't affect me though :-)


Hmm clearly it does ... now let’s get back to aviation
 
Yossarian22
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:33 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I know this thread is talking about European LCCs, but in Asia, LCCs using hubs isn't uncommon. You have perhaps most notably AirAsia and KLIA, but there are also others like Scoot and Singapore, Lion and Jakarta, Cebu Pacific and Manila, among others. KLIA even has a large terminal used for LCCs and said terminal is used as a hub of operations. It's been years though since I flew on an LCC, but to my knowledge the LCCs here do sell connections (correct me if I'm wrong).


Yes, I recently flew BKI-KUL-KOS on AirAsia with a protected connection, it was a 4 or 5 hour layover. I think the only way AirAsia sells connections is if the layover is so long, it would take a massive delay to bust the connection. Thai AirAsia also has a hub operation out of DMK, and I have seen connections both domestic and international connections sold through DMK.

The big difference is the EU. Easyjet can fly from any EU country to any EU country, AirAsia cannot do that. That is why there is Malaysia AirAsia, Thai AirAsia, Indonesia AirAsia, and AirAsia Japan (AirAsia does sell seamless connections between these different divisions). AirAsia tried to create a Chinese AirAsia, but well China wants to protect the market for their own airlines. AirAsia seems to have a plan for Vietnam as well (which will be welcomed).
 
PR77W
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:44 pm

Yossarian22 wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
I know this thread is talking about European LCCs, but in Asia, LCCs using hubs isn't uncommon. You have perhaps most notably AirAsia and KLIA, but there are also others like Scoot and Singapore, Lion and Jakarta, Cebu Pacific and Manila, among others. KLIA even has a large terminal used for LCCs and said terminal is used as a hub of operations. It's been years though since I flew on an LCC, but to my knowledge the LCCs here do sell connections (correct me if I'm wrong).


Yes, I recently flew BKI-KUL-KOS on AirAsia with a protected connection, it was a 4 or 5 hour layover. I think the only way AirAsia sells connections is if the layover is so long, it would take a massive delay to bust the connection. Thai AirAsia also has a hub operation out of DMK, and I have seen connections both domestic and international connections sold through DMK.

The big difference is the EU. Easyjet can fly from any EU country to any EU country, AirAsia cannot do that. That is why there is Malaysia AirAsia, Thai AirAsia, Indonesia AirAsia, and AirAsia Japan (AirAsia does sell seamless connections between these different divisions). AirAsia tried to create a Chinese AirAsia, but well China wants to protect the market for their own airlines. AirAsia seems to have a plan for Vietnam as well (which will be welcomed).


Also added Air Asia India (I5) and Philippine Air Asia (Z2).
 
AirFiero
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:46 pm

OB1504 wrote:
hispanola wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Pegasus runs a mega hub lcc operation . ( Yes SAW is in Europe )


IST is in Europe, SAW is in Asia.

WN, F9, and NK in the U.S. have somewhat of a hub system, though I WN would rather call them "focus cities" or some term other than "hub." Think of LAS, DEN, BNA, BWI, MCO, MDW, and others.


I would consider FLL to be Spirit’s only true hub because they have directional banks of flights timed specifically for connections. At the other focus cities, the connections just seem to sort of happen without being specifically planned for.


This is the argument I’ve had regarding WN, and whether they have hubs or not. Hubs are specifically put together to have a lot of planes arrive in a short period of time SPECIFICALLY to optimize connections (and make them convenient for the traveler). WN has stated that they optimize their utilization of aircraft (what was it, a target 15 minute turn around on short routes?) and ground personnel. The challenge for an airline is paying several dozen or hundred ground employees standing around between connecting banks. Southwest deals with that by having flights coming and going in a constant flow, with available connections more or less incidental. And it might mean a long wait time on the ground for your next flight.

But since filling planes is one way an airline makes money, I’ve still wondered why an LCC or ULCC couldn’t make money with a banked hub at a strategic geographic location (like DEN in the US)? People who use these carriers are usually willing to give up some amenities (like flying nonstop, or flying at more convenient times) to save money. So why wouldn’t they accept a connecting flight if they can fly between two points not normally connected or at a fare that is higher than they normally could afford?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:53 pm

AirFiero wrote:
But since filling planes is one way an airline makes money, I’ve still wondered why an LCC or ULCC couldn’t make money with a banked hub at a strategic geographic location (like DEN in the US)? People who use these carriers are usually willing to give up some amenities (like flying nonstop, or flying at more convenient times) to save money. So why wouldn’t they accept a connecting flight if they can fly between two points not normally connected or at a fare that is higher than they normally could afford?


Probably because most LCC routes are operated at a low frequency, often less than daily. Sometimes even as little as once weekly. In order for a hub to work you got to have a higher frequency, but there's a reason LCCs don't offer a higher frequency. They don't want to overserve the market and compete against themselves.

As you said, people flying LCCs are often willing to give up some amenities to save money. This means that if there's a cheap flight on Tuesday and an expensive flight on Wednesday, they fly on Tuesday even if Wednesday actually would have suited them better. But if that cheap flight on Tuesday doesn't exist, the only option for them is the expensive flight on Wednesday. That benefits the yields of the airline.

But what if the route would include connecting in a hub? Suppose the first leg is only flown on Monday and Friday, while the second leg is only flown on Wednesday. That would make a connection impossible. Even if a route is flown once daily it would mean a problem. You might get one way if the first leg is flown in the morning and the second in the afternoon, but getting back would be a problem as then you have the first leg in the afternoon and you missed the second leg which was in the morning. But upgrading to a higher frequency in order to make your connection isn't an option because, as said, this would mean competing with yourself (your morning flight competing with your afternoon flight), lower load factors (there is only a certain amount of demand, so you don't want to offer too many seats) and therefor lower yields.

When only flying non-stop, these problems all don't exist. Passengers might make their own connections. If two flights connect to each other by coincidence, that's fine, but as an airline you don't have to plan it. This means you're more flexible in making your schedule, you're not bound to specific arrival and departure times but you can depart and arrive whenever it suits your schedule.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:06 pm

AirFiero wrote:

This is the argument I’ve had regarding WN, and whether they have hubs or not. Hubs are specifically put together to have a lot of planes arrive in a short period of time SPECIFICALLY to optimize connections (and make them convenient for the traveler). WN has stated that they optimize their utilization of aircraft (what was it, a target 15 minute turn around on short routes?) and ground personnel. The challenge for an airline is paying several dozen or hundred ground employees standing around between connecting banks. Southwest deals with that by having flights coming and going in a constant flow, with available connections more or less incidental. And it might mean a long wait time on the ground for your next flight.


WN can say whatever they want but here in STL, they most certainly have directional mini-banks. I watch the 2pm-ish westbound push almost every afternoon from my office. They do have flights headed in other directions at that time but banked it is.
TWA Hotel, Here I come. October, 2019 :airplane:
 
AirFiero
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:20 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
But since filling planes is one way an airline makes money, I’ve still wondered why an LCC or ULCC couldn’t make money with a banked hub at a strategic geographic location (like DEN in the US)? People who use these carriers are usually willing to give up some amenities (like flying nonstop, or flying at more convenient times) to save money. So why wouldn’t they accept a connecting flight if they can fly between two points not normally connected or at a fare that is higher than they normally could afford?


Probably because most LCC routes are operated at a low frequency, often less than daily. Sometimes even as little as once weekly. In order for a hub to work you got to have a higher frequency, but there's a reason LCCs don't offer a higher frequency. They don't want to overserve the market and compete against themselves.

As you said, people flying LCCs are often willing to give up some amenities to save money. This means that if there's a cheap flight on Tuesday and an expensive flight on Wednesday, they fly on Tuesday even if Wednesday actually would have suited them better. But if that cheap flight on Tuesday doesn't exist, the only option for them is the expensive flight on Wednesday. That benefits the yields of the airline.

But what if the route would include connecting in a hub? Suppose the first leg is only flown on Monday and Friday, while the second leg is only flown on Wednesday. That would make a connection impossible. Even if a route is flown once daily it would mean a problem. You might get one way if the first leg is flown in the morning and the second in the afternoon, but getting back would be a problem as then you have the first leg in the afternoon and you missed the second leg which was in the morning. But upgrading to a higher frequency in order to make your connection isn't an option because, as said, this would mean competing with yourself (your morning flight competing with your afternoon flight), lower load factors (there is only a certain amount of demand, so you don't want to offer too many seats) and therefor lower yields.

When only flying non-stop, these problems all don't exist. Passengers might make their own connections. If two flights connect to each other by coincidence, that's fine, but as an airline you don't have to plan it. This means you're more flexible in making your schedule, you're not bound to specific arrival and departure times but you can depart and arrive whenever it suits your schedule.


I wasn’t thinking about F9s or Allegients one or two flights a week thing. I was thinking why wouldn’t a 5-7 day a week hub at Denver work for F9? Connect a lot of places. But I’m sure they’ve thought about that.
 
AirFiero
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Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:21 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

This is the argument I’ve had regarding WN, and whether they have hubs or not. Hubs are specifically put together to have a lot of planes arrive in a short period of time SPECIFICALLY to optimize connections (and make them convenient for the traveler). WN has stated that they optimize their utilization of aircraft (what was it, a target 15 minute turn around on short routes?) and ground personnel. The challenge for an airline is paying several dozen or hundred ground employees standing around between connecting banks. Southwest deals with that by having flights coming and going in a constant flow, with available connections more or less incidental. And it might mean a long wait time on the ground for your next flight.


WN can say whatever they want but here in STL, they most certainly have directional mini-banks. I watch the 2pm-ish westbound push almost every afternoon from my office. They do have flights headed in other directions at that time but banked it is.


Interesting. I’d be curious to see an old time type schedule listing the available connections.
 
Sokes
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: A Hubbed LCC?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:25 am

Good video concerning hubs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGXahSnA_oA
Another one concerning low cost carriers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=069y1MpOkQY
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?

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