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yonikasz
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm

Maybe Sun Country in the United States?
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:46 pm

In the US you could definitely see Sun Country, Swift, Miami Air and the like picking up some slack.
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910A
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:49 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
In the US you could definitely see Sun Country, Swift, Miami Air and the like picking up some slack.

I seriously doubt WN, AA and UA would use these carriers.
 
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Finn350
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:50 pm

I wonder if this is really the safer way to perform the flights compared to flying using 737 MAX?
 
727LOVER
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:52 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
In the US you could definitely see Sun Country, Swift, Miami Air and the like picking up some slack.


Could have been a gold mine for NEW Eastern


"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:52 pm

Finn350 wrote:
I wonder if this is really the safer way to perform the flights compared to flying using 737 MAX?

Exactly this. We are going to cover these flights with less safe operators. Absolutely great
 
ba319-131
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:54 pm

The US 3 flying the 737 MAX planes have relatively small fleets, I expect the odd cancellation here and there with a bit of re-booking will sort the issue without too much grief?
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B747forever
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:58 pm

Most operators have small MAX fleets, so shouldn't be too affected by it. However, AC with about 1/5 of their NB fleet being MAX aircraft will be interesting to follow.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:02 pm

910A wrote:
I seriously doubt WN, AA and UA would use these carriers.


No need for that, those are big enough to make shifts in their fleets. They always have a few spare aircraft on hand in case of disruptions.

It's the smaller airlines that fly the MAX that'll be needing external charters. In Europe this is mostly TUI. I guess they'll be chartering from the likes of Titan Airways, White Airways, etc.
 
deltadart106
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:02 pm

B747forever wrote:
Most operators have small MAX fleets, so shouldn't be too affected by it. However, AC with about 1/5 of their NB fleet being MAX aircraft will be interesting to follow.


My (completely uneducated) guess would be that they will just cancel or reduce the frequency of their lowest revenue MAX flights, or take other planes off of low demand routes and switch them in place of the MAX. Or even pull planes out of the desert (does AC have any?)
 
SCQ83
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:10 pm

It is also (at least in Europe) low season. Easter falls in late April this year so there is still one month to go for the next big traffic peak.
 
flight152
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:18 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
In the US you could definitely see Sun Country, Swift, Miami Air and the like picking up some slack.

Ever heard of airline scope clauses?
 
RicFlyer
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:21 pm

Also many of the charter operators next week will be used for the NCAA basketball tournament (68 teams) so there will be fewer charters available.
 
ac33e
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:24 pm

AC could charter some TS aircraft, which sit on the ground for quite a while. Pilots might not be happy, but tough beans.
 
vfw614
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:25 pm

LOT apparently has leased in a GetJet Boeing 737-400.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:28 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
In the US you could definitely see Sun Country, Swift, Miami Air and the like picking up some slack.

There is no slack to pick up. Maxs at AA and WN equaled less than 5% of capacity. Passengers will be reaccomodated on existing flights.

Does anyone seriously think Swift or Miami Air will be carrying AA or WN passengers??
 
smartplane
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:29 pm

Like with the 787, directly and indirectly owned Airbus A320's and perhaps even A330's, may re-appear from slumber. Perhaps even something bigger.
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:32 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
In the US you could definitely see Sun Country, Swift, Miami Air and the like picking up some slack.

There is no slack to pick up. Maxs at AA and WN equaled less than 5% of capacity. Passengers will be reaccomodated on existing flights.

Does anyone seriously think Swift or Miami Air will be carrying AA or WN passengers??


FYI Miami carried Spirit passengers when their NEOs were spending unexpected time on the ground. I wouldn't rule it out here.
 
777Mech
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:34 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
I wonder if this is really the safer way to perform the flights compared to flying using 737 MAX?

Exactly this. We are going to cover these flights with less safe operators. Absolutely great


In what way are these operators less safe? Do tell.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:34 pm

You just don’t go to the desert and fly a plane back for revenue service.

Most of them even aren’t owned by the airline anymore nor are the on the AOC, and are usually stripped of interiors and various other parts.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:13 pm

Delta is doing ops in KMIA for GOL
 
tommy1808
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:27 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
I wonder if this is really the safer way to perform the flights compared to flying using 737 MAX?

Exactly this. We are going to cover these flights with less safe operators. Absolutely great


You mean like Hi Fly (0 accidents) or Bulgarian Air Charter (0) accidents) or Titan Airways (0 accidents).....

Which also are...

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I live in Europe so am particularly interested in Europe, but leave the geographical area open for discussion


... the airlines that will do a lot of subbing airlines can't cover by reducing slack. With luck you get an A380 to sub for a max...

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:29 pm

vfw614 wrote:
LOT apparently has leased in a GetJet Boeing 737-400.


Cancelling flight is expensive around here.... that motivates.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Veigar
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:33 pm

First off... is SY even a charter airline anymore? I thought they finished that phase looong ago.
 
Svenie
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:34 pm

TUI Belgium yesterday :

OO-TMA flight Hurghada to Brussels diverted to Bologna in Italy.

OO-MAX flight Sal to Brussels diverted to Alicante in Spain.

Passengers were picked up by Smartlynx and Air Explore.

Source Flightlevel.be :
https://flightlevel.be/58685/easa-verbi ... ten-omleid
 
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longhauler
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:38 pm

ac33e wrote:
AC could charter some TS aircraft, which sit on the ground for quite a while. Pilots might not be happy, but tough beans.

Air Canada pilots would be very happy. Per their contract, they are paid for any "external" flying done. Look at the cheques received for the DC-10/MD-11 freighters and more recently, the Cargojet flying.

Great time to be stuck at home ... during March Break. Sadly, getting anywhere warm non-rev would be a bear right now. ;)

Tough beans?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:42 pm

I doubt any US carrier could charter out their flying except booking code share lines, but none of those fly US domestic. Scope clauses are pretty clear.

GF
 
Svenie
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:45 pm

Turkish Airlines maybe could use some NGs from Sun Express for the time?
 
airbazar
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:12 pm

In the U.S. I don't see it happening. It's low or shoulder season here so airlines should have some slack in their fleets. On top of that there aren't that many flying. I believe WN is the largest operator in the U.S. with only 35 frames.
 
dcajet
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:16 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
Delta is doing ops in KMIA for GOL


Correct. DL is covering for GOL at MIA & MCO with its own metal.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
JBLUA320
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:25 pm

Norwegian is using one of its 787s on DUB-SWF today and for the next few days at least.
 
yonikasz
Topic Author
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:48 pm

dcajet wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Delta is doing ops in KMIA for GOL


Correct. DL is covering for GOL at MIA & MCO with its own metal.


On FR24 I don't see any MCO or MIA Delta flights that they don't normally operate. Did I miss something?
 
B747forever
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:53 pm

JBLUA320 wrote:
Norwegian is using one of its 787s on DUB-SWF today and for the next few days at least.


With their already precarious financial situation, this whole MAX grounding might be the tipping point. The economics on DUB-SWF with the 787 must be horrible.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
dcajet
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:16 am

yonikasz wrote:
dcajet wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Delta is doing ops in KMIA for GOL


Correct. DL is covering for GOL at MIA & MCO with its own metal.


On FR24 I don't see any MCO or MIA Delta flights that they don't normally operate. Did I miss something?


I don't know when the agreement becomes effective or for how long, but it was announced yesterday in Brazil

https://ponteaerea.net/2019/03/12/voos- ... -da-delta/
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
OB1504
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:09 am

yonikasz wrote:
dcajet wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Delta is doing ops in KMIA for GOL


Correct. DL is covering for GOL at MIA & MCO with its own metal.


On FR24 I don't see any MCO or MIA Delta flights that they don't normally operate. Did I miss something?


Delta 8877 operated MIA-BSB on Monday and Tuesday night. A330-300 N815NW on Monday and 767-400 N827MH on Tuesday. Fueled them both.
 
DDR
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:19 am

Almost certain AA and UA would not be allowed to charter planes based on their pilot’s contract. Could they however, use their feeders (wholly owned)to operate some of the flights, or would that still be a scope violation?
 
OB1504
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:33 am

DDR wrote:
Almost certain AA and UA would not be allowed to charter planes based on their pilot’s contract. Could they however, use their feeders (wholly owned)to operate some of the flights, or would that still be a scope violation?


As long as they don’t add planes, it should be okay, but it looks like AA is choosing to use their operational spares instead.

A 777 flew MIA-JFK tonight to cover the MIA-LGA cancellations and the MIA-UIO route is going back to the 757.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:36 am

AC has cancelled all their PBI flights as March Break is coming up. Are they sending people via United connections or busing them to FLL or anything like that?
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:42 am

B747forever wrote:
JBLUA320 wrote:
Norwegian is using one of its 787s on DUB-SWF today and for the next few days at least.


With their already precarious financial situation, this whole MAX grounding might be the tipping point. The economics on DUB-SWF with the 787 must be horrible.

They claim they’re billing Boeing for the extra cost. We’ll see how that goes...
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
robsaw
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:48 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
In the US you could definitely see Sun Country, Swift, Miami Air and the like picking up some slack.

There is no slack to pick up. Maxs at AA and WN equaled less than 5% of capacity. Passengers will be reaccomodated on existing flights.

Does anyone seriously think Swift or Miami Air will be carrying AA or WN passengers??


Overall capacity and aircraft assignment to flights/routes don't line-up that conveniently to simply re-accommodate. AA certainly had passengers today that weren't going anywhere (due to the MAX8).
 
nws2002
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:49 am

Veigar wrote:
First off... is SY even a charter airline anymore? I thought they finished that phase looong ago.

SY is the largest carrier for NCAA basketball charters this year.
 
JBLUA320
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:29 am

B747forever wrote:
JBLUA320 wrote:
Norwegian is using one of its 787s on DUB-SWF today and for the next few days at least.


With their already precarious financial situation, this whole MAX grounding might be the tipping point. The economics on DUB-SWF with the 787 must be horrible.



Not quite. They are combining the PVD and SWF flights to operate from SWF (passengers being bussed down from PVD). And I believe DUB/SNN/ORK are all being condensed to DUB. These are recovery flights for booked passengers, so they will be going out with every seat full.
 
n7371f
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:03 am

Sun Country is booked the next few weeks for NCAA charters.
 
B747forever
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:14 am

JBLUA320 wrote:
B747forever wrote:
JBLUA320 wrote:
Norwegian is using one of its 787s on DUB-SWF today and for the next few days at least.


With their already precarious financial situation, this whole MAX grounding might be the tipping point. The economics on DUB-SWF with the 787 must be horrible.



Not quite. They are combining the PVD and SWF flights to operate from SWF (passengers being bussed down from PVD). And I believe DUB/SNN/ORK are all being condensed to DUB. These are recovery flights for booked passengers, so they will be going out with every seat full.


Thanks for the info. Didn't know that they will consolidate several flights, at least the 787 will be full. Though I am sure this will still incur extra costs for Norwegian.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
AMollenhauer9
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:24 am

I believe that United still has slack in it's 787-10 fleet which should help.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:42 am

robsaw wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
In the US you could definitely see Sun Country, Swift, Miami Air and the like picking up some slack.

There is no slack to pick up. Maxs at AA and WN equaled less than 5% of capacity. Passengers will be reaccomodated on existing flights.

Does anyone seriously think Swift or Miami Air will be carrying AA or WN passengers??


Overall capacity and aircraft assignment to flights/routes don't line-up that conveniently to simply re-accommodate. AA certainly had passengers today that weren't going anywhere (due to the MAX8).

You cancel some 738 flights elsewhere and shift them to Routes like LGA and BOS to MIA in the case of AA. There is no reason for outside lift.
 
FatCat
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:16 am

poor IG.
they were so happy about their new MAX8.
but they had "the long eye"!
they didn't leave 3 brand new planes parked in all white livery for lack of money no! they already knew it will be grounded!
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
jules48
Posts: 25
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Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:20 am

LOT are using Go2Sky today.OM registered.737-800.
I am sure they have a 787 floating around if they need extra capacity.
 
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GCT64
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:48 am

LOT's WAW-LHR flights seem to have switched to a variety of E195,B734,B738 mostly from the LOT fleet but also from Go2Sky as mentioned above.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Obscure airlines chartered for 737 Max grounding

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:36 pm

Sunwing is apparently looking at wet leasing a widebody(ies) to clear the backlog. In parts of Canada right now, it's a school holiday, this is one of the busiest travel weeks of the year. YYZ for example will handle ~ 30% more pax than a normal week.

AC has tremendous exposure to the grounding, and is in a terrible spot right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see them charter some aircraft, especially if the grounding continues. They are short over 1200 seats/day to SFO from YYZ/YUL alone right now, PBI is cancelled as was previously mentionned, and Hawaii has gone from up to 6x daily flights to 2.

Once April rolls around, widebody utilization goes through the roof, this summer was scheduled to see all widebody types except the 767 running with no slack. This means they can only really consolidate flights with what they have for a few weeks, if the grounding continues, they will need help.

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