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Veigar
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Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:28 am

Was just wondering if AA would use these S80s for longer since they're down ~25 airplanes. Oddly enough, they have ~25 MD-80s. It sounds kind of cliche at this point, but what do you guys think?
 
777PHX
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:33 am

I doubt it, I don't see this lasting long enough to justify that.
 
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Veigar
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:35 am

777PHX wrote:
I doubt it, I don't see this lasting long enough to justify that.


For reference it took about (5 weeks? correct me if I'm off) for DC-10s to be un-grounded .
 
32andBelow
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:36 am

[twoid][/twoid]
Veigar wrote:
777PHX wrote:
I doubt it, I don't see this lasting long enough to justify that.


For reference it took about (5 weeks? correct me if I'm off) for DC-10s to be un-grounded .

I bet this is ungrounded by next week after the ET black boxes are read
 
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Veigar
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:38 am

32andBelow wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Veigar wrote:
777PHX wrote:
I doubt it, I don't see this lasting long enough to justify that.


For reference it took about (5 weeks? correct me if I'm off) for DC-10s to be un-grounded .

I bet this is ungrounded by next week after the ET black boxes are read


And if not?
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:40 am

The MAX is less than 5%of AA’s flights and mostly only impacts MIA . They won’t keep the 80s as the pilots have already bidded and will be going to training to fly their next aircraft type.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:55 am

Expect firewalled utilization of 738s rather than retention of MD-80s.
 
raylee67
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:11 am

AA also have more A321 continuously coming online, that can be used temporarily in place of MD80
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Polot
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:14 am

What does the MD-80 retirement schedule even look like? I was under the impression the fleet was staying mostly steady (ie only a few more retirements) until after the summer season when the rest will be retired basically all at once.
 
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yyz717
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:18 pm

According to aerotransport.org, AA has 28 M80s still in service, and all are due for retirement this year. No breakdown by aircraft by month for retirement.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:30 pm

With one ferried to Roswell last Tuesday.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:32 pm

Until we get an exact answer on the 737 MAX, i bet they will keep all options open.

Not just AA, but i bet every airline effected is thinking this way. We do not know enough at the moment, so keep all options open if they are possible.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:41 pm

Delta is bringing back the DC-9.
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:01 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.


Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:05 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.


Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?


Why would they bring anything back? They don't currently fly the MAX....
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:06 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.


Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?


Why would they bring anything back? They don't currently fly the MAX....


Just checked, I saw the same thing... DAL has no MAX, was wondering what the motive behind the claim that they were bringing back dc9s was.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:08 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.


Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?


Man, do turn on sarcasm mode pls!

I was just kidding....
 
STLflyer
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:10 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.


Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?


It's a joke.

Delta doesn't even fly the MAX or have any on order, they could be grounded until the end of time and Delta wouldn't be affected.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:11 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.


Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?


Man, do turn on sarcasm mode pls!

I was just kidding....

This is a.net 2.0

You shouldn't expect too much of most posters.
 
SmokinL1011
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:22 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.


Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?


Man, do turn on sarcasm mode pls!

I was just kidding....


Gonna need to lawyer up before too long if you want to be sarcastic/poke fun on here.
 
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American 767
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:25 pm

yyz717 wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, AA has 28 M80s still in service, and all are due for retirement this year. No breakdown by aircraft by month for retirement.


I believe that one of them is leaving before the summer. That's N501AA the sole MD-82 left in the fleet at this point. All the other remaining MD-80s are -83 variants mostly if not all ex-TWA birds, those will leave the fleet all at once later this year, in September, as far as I know.

I think that the grounding of the MAX will be covered mostly by 800s of the current generation, and maybe a few A321s.

Now here is a question. Does AA still want all the remaining 76 MAX still on order? They probably do, but if they change their mind about this I won't be surprised. They already deferred the delivery of 40 MAX previously.
Ben Soriano
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:36 pm

American 767 wrote:
yyz717 wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, AA has 28 M80s still in service, and all are due for retirement this year. No breakdown by aircraft by month for retirement.


I believe that one of them is leaving before the summer. That's N501AA the sole MD-82 left in the fleet at this point. All the other remaining MD-80s are -83 variants mostly if not all ex-TWA birds, those will leave the fleet all at once later this year, in September, as far as I know.

I think that the grounding of the MAX will be covered mostly by 800s of the current generation, and maybe a few A321s.

Now here is a question. Does AA still want all the remaining 76 MAX still on order? They probably do, but if they change their mind about this I won't be surprised. They already deferred the delivery of 40 MAX previously.


I'm willing to bet there will be no change to their order.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:58 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.

And under NW retro livery.
And Boeing will reopen the 757 line
And there would be tons of new 767-400 orders

That made my day :D
 
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flybynight
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:06 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.

I also heard some Convair 880’s are being washed and repainted for Delta.
Only DC9’s from the late 60’s that are former NWA of :)
Heia Norge!
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:08 pm

Don’t forget the Concorde also.
 
StormRider
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:15 pm

32andBelow wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Veigar wrote:
777PHX wrote:
I doubt it, I don't see this lasting long enough to justify that.


For reference it took about (5 weeks? correct me if I'm off) for DC-10s to be un-grounded .

I bet this is ungrounded by next week after the ET black boxes are read


"FAA Administrator Dan Elwell told reporters on Wednesday the software update will be ready within a couple of months after regulators around the world grounded the plane following a second fatal crash in the 737 MAX 8 since October."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKCN1QV2DC
 
ferminbrif
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:21 pm

MD-80s are just like policeman John McClane (Bruce Willis) in Die hard…. Truly immortal … LOL :thumbsup: :wave: :weightlifter: :trophy:
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:37 pm

Wouldn't fewer NBs be leaving the fleet over the next few (several) months than otherwise expected?
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
lowfareair
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:43 pm

I would assume that the M80s and LUS 752s to be retired this year will be retired on time as long as the MAX is back in the air in the next 3ish months. If June rolls around and there isn't an end to the grounding, then I would fully expect AA to discuss pushing back retirement. I'm guessing that they probably need at least a 2 month lead time on changing their mind on mass retiring aircraft, and probably a bit longer depending on when bid packets go out and such.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:09 pm

What is happening to the pilots that have been flying the MAXs for UAL, Southwest and American? Do they just switch back to other models of the 737 until this matter is resolved?
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:10 pm

Common type rating.
 
N649DL
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:21 pm

Considering the MAX was slate to operate MIA-BSB I would say it's more related to keeping the 752s (L-AA / L-US) around longer. If the ban continues past a few months, perhaps maybe pulling a few 757s or 763s out of the desert.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:25 pm

American 767 wrote:
yyz717 wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, AA has 28 M80s still in service, and all are due for retirement this year. No breakdown by aircraft by month for retirement.


I believe that one of them is leaving before the summer. That's N501AA the sole MD-82 left in the fleet at this point. All the other remaining MD-80s are -83 variants mostly if not all ex-TWA birds, those will leave the fleet all at once later this year, in September, as far as I know.

I think that the grounding of the MAX will be covered mostly by 800s of the current generation, and maybe a few A321s.

Now here is a question. Does AA still want all the remaining 76 MAX still on order? They probably do, but if they change their mind about this I won't be surprised. They already deferred the delivery of 40 MAX previously.

Man, I feel lucky to have gotten N501AA two weeks ago. Glad that I got one more original AA MD-82 flight in for nostalgia sake.
I tell you after being the DL MD-88s nearly weekly, N501AA was in better looking shape inside out that DL's battered interiors, and exterior paint.
 
airbuster
Posts: 353
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:43 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.


That sure gave me a good chuckle. Don’t mind the other comments! I hope they do a NW retrojet too.
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
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spinotter
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:56 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:

Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?


Man, do turn on sarcasm mode pls!

I was just kidding....

This is a.net 2.0

You shouldn't expect too much of most posters.


It's all a learning experience, right? They will know next time who not to trust!
 
A350
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:37 pm

Is the phase-out of the MD-80s (and 757s) triggered only „softly“ by fuel burn and mx costs, or „hard“ by issues like pending D-checks, unavailable spare parts, etc.? As long as it is possible for a reasonable price I could very well imagine them postponing the MD-80 retirement a bit
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:47 pm

All of the above and a fuel system AD.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:52 pm

A350 wrote:
Is the phase-out of the MD-80s (and 757s) triggered only „softly“ by fuel burn and mx costs, or „hard“ by issues like pending D-checks, unavailable spare parts, etc.? As long as it is possible for a reasonable price I could very well imagine them postponing the MD-80 retirement a bit

In the US, MD-80s retirement is timed to take place before 2020 -- the deadline for upgrades to ADS-B, which appear unacceptably costly for MD-80s.

So, while we trust US operators are trying to squeeze maximum value, by timing to retire their MD-80s by the time they are running out of hours before a major check, it's apparently a consensus in the industry that commercial operations of MD-80s', in the US, are unfeasible post December 31, 2019.
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Cunard
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:05 pm

N649DL wrote:
Considering the MAX was slate to operate MIA-BSB I would say it's more related to keeping the 752s (L-AA / L-US) around longer. If the ban continues past a few months, perhaps maybe pulling a few 757s or 763s out of the desert.


Those 757s and 763s in the desert are probably not even owned by the airline anymore, there not on the airlines AOC, there not Insured, there not in an airworthy condition, etc, etc, honestly you can't just pull a bunch of planes that have laid dormant in the desert for months or years and expect them to immediately re-enter service it's not as straight forward as you assume it is!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm

They’ve sold the 767s
 
jfk777
Posts: 6785
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:37 pm

757 could stay longer for Latin America. 2001 737-800 could stay longer since those early 737 are do to be retired for mysterious reasons.
 
UA444
Posts: 2737
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:11 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
A350 wrote:
Is the phase-out of the MD-80s (and 757s) triggered only „softly“ by fuel burn and mx costs, or „hard“ by issues like pending D-checks, unavailable spare parts, etc.? As long as it is possible for a reasonable price I could very well imagine them postponing the MD-80 retirement a bit

In the US, MD-80s retirement is timed to take place before 2020 -- the deadline for upgrades to ADS-B, which appear unacceptably costly for MD-80s.

So, while we trust US operators are trying to squeeze maximum value, by timing to retire their MD-80s by the time they are running out of hours before a major check, it's apparently a consensus in the industry that commercial operations of MD-80s', in the US, are unfeasible post December 31, 2019.

DL will still have MD-80s next year.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 4583
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:20 pm

The Maxes in the fleet of AA/UA/WN don't represent a big measure of total capacity. In the spring - before peak summer flying - the grounding shouldn't be a big deal. Sure, some shuffling. Let's see what Enilria's Sunday report shows for frequency changes. It's been said elsewhere that WN has zeroed out all Maxes to the end of schedule. If all those flights get cancelled thru the end of schedule that's a non-trivial rebalance of capacity over the network.

Now, in the case of AC, where they're using Maxes TATL and don't have an equivalently capable size frame available, that's a little more shuffling.
 
777PHX
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:30 pm

A350 wrote:
Is the phase-out of the MD-80s (and 757s) triggered only „softly“ by fuel burn and mx costs, or „hard“ by issues like pending D-checks, unavailable spare parts, etc.? As long as it is possible for a reasonable price I could very well imagine them postponing the MD-80 retirement a bit


"Hard" issues.

This MD80 retirement process has been going on for years now. It's not as simple as "oh, we're going to keep the MD80 fleet for a few more months" and then just do it. Parts stocks have been depleted, aircraft will need mx checks, pilots are due to transition to other fleets, etc.

At any rate, it's a moot point. I don't see this lasting until September when the remainder of the MD80 fleet is scheduled to be retired.

17 total A321Ns and a handful of used A319s are due in this year as well, so I'm sure they could do some creative scheduling to cover for the MAX if needed.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4245
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:45 pm

I bet any planes AA was planning on retiring b 757,767, MD-80 will be just options. Too much is unknown at the moment. Could be fast, could be years. No one knows anything right now.

Boeing has paused all deliveries. Any airline would be smart to just do nothing at the moment, to see how this plays out. Don't retire anything that hasn't already started a process. Stay conservative until we actually know what made these planes crash and what a possible fix might be. This could be very quick, but no one really knows.
 
N649DL
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:04 am

Cunard wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Considering the MAX was slate to operate MIA-BSB I would say it's more related to keeping the 752s (L-AA / L-US) around longer. If the ban continues past a few months, perhaps maybe pulling a few 757s or 763s out of the desert.


Those 757s and 763s in the desert are probably not even owned by the airline anymore, there not on the airlines AOC, there not Insured, there not in an airworthy condition, etc, etc, honestly you can't just pull a bunch of planes that have laid dormant in the desert for months or years and expect them to immediately re-enter service it's not as straight forward as you assume it is!


Most of the AA 757 retirements have been as of the last 1-3 years. Many were sold but I'm sure a few are still in good shape if they ever needed to use them.
 
crj900lr
Posts: 441
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:10 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:

Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?


Man, do turn on sarcasm mode pls!

I was just kidding....

This is a.net 2.0

You shouldn't expect too much of most posters.


Yeah you are right, It's not like it was back in the day when we had legit informative postings on here.
 
j0erayb0b99
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:15 am

Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:40 am

Isn't American down 38 total aircraft with the 14 newly Retrofitted Oasis 737NG having problems with the overhead bins?
 
mga707
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:45 am

j0erayb0b99 wrote:
Isn't American down 38 total aircraft with the 14 newly Retrofitted Oasis 737NG having problems with the overhead bins?


That is what I have heard as well.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 910
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:57 am

United pulled a 767-224ER out of retirement when the 787 fleet was grounded. The MD-80 is a very valuable aircraft. Even bringing back one or two would be a huge help for American during these tough times. The MD-80 remains competitive on shorter routes. It is safe, reliable, and comfortable. The MD-80 replaced the 727-200 as the workhorse of the fleet. Delta brought a DC-9-50 out of retirement when one of their 717s broke down.

I think that AA is going to bring back the MD-80 that was retired last week. It is great to see the polished metal airliners soldier on. Modern airliners are much less impressive looking.

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