Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:53 am

There not coming back.
 
727LOVER
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:29 am

jfk777 wrote:
737-800 could stay longer since those early 737 are do to be retired for mysterious reasons.



I thought that decision had been reversed
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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Veigar
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:06 am

I am flying an AA MD-80 in two weeks. Also, is it possible that they can bring back an MD-82 retired that recently?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:53 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Common type rating.


Which was kind of the cause of all this drama to begin with. More specifically, keeping differences training down within the common type rating by deciding not to train the pilots on the fact that certain methods of stopping runaway trim are disabled with respect to MCAS. And not specifically training pilots on the operation of the new system that violated Boeing's basic design philosophy. (Idiots.)

I do think that both accidents will ultimately be seen as fundamentally pilot-error, but I think Boeing had a hand in the accident sequence because you can't assume that everyone will always remember everything they need to in an emergency. Particularly that 200-hour non-pilot passenger in the right seat.
Last edited by wjcandee on Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
amcnd
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:58 am

Boof02671 wrote:
There not coming back.



24 MD-80s being pulled from the desert. 10 to be back on the line April 1st...
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:38 am

amcnd wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
There not coming back.



24 MD-80s being pulled from the desert. 10 to be back on the line April 1st...

AA only has 10 stored, nice try, bad lie.

What is the obsession with bringing planes back that won’t happen?

1. Not on the AOC
2. No qualified pilots to fly them
3. Interiors and other parts stripped
4. Planes not maintenance and AD airworthy
5. Planes not owned nor leased anymore.
6. No spare parts in inventory nor available

Amazing how people don’t think and reach for some fantasy in their head You just don’t go to ROS or MHV, and fly them back and use them into revenue service.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:56 am

American Airlines

The world’s largest airline — and the second-largest operator of the 737 MAX — has provided a detailed report of what’s going to happen to its 737 MAX aircraft during the grounding.

According to an official at the airline, AA expects to cancel around 85 flights per day due to the grounding. AA is rearranging its flights to try to limit these cancellations to routes that have multiple flights each day, rather than cancelling the only flight to a destination.

For example, on AA’s 2x daily 737 MAX flights to Quito, Ecuador (UIO), the airline is cancelling one flight and swapping in a larger Boeing 757 to accommodate as many passengers as possible. That’s a win for the passengers flying up front, as they will get a true lie-flat business class seat rather than a premium economy seat sold as business class.

22 of the 24 grounded 737 MAX in AA’s fleet are being repositioned for temporary storage. American Airlines has confirmed that these flights will only have flight crew on-board — no passengers or flight attendants. The flights will operate with a 96XX flight number. Four of these flights were in the air at 3:30pm ET:

Once all of the aircraft are repositioned, AA is parking its 24 Boeing 737 MAX at the following airports:

Airport # Tail Numbers
Tulsa (TUL) 9 N350RV, N314RH, N342RX, N335RT, N303RE, N324RN, N326RP, N315RJ, N328RR
Orlando Melbourne (MLB) 3 N308RD, N310RF, N316RK
Mobile Downtown (BFM) 2 N303RG, N323RM
Boston (BOS) 2 N324RA, N321RL
Philadelphia (PHL) 2 N336RU, N338RS
Phoenix (PHX) 2 N304RB, N313SB
New York JFK 1 N306RC
Las Vegas (LAS) 1 N302SA
San Francisco (SFO) 1 N343RY
St. Louis (STL) 1 N341RW
The large number of aircraft being stored at Tulsa makes sense, as American Airlines has a massive maintenance base there. However, besides Boston — which typically has 4x scheduled 737 MAX flights a day — no other airports have scheduled AA 737 MAX flights. That means that AA will have to ferry these aircraft from these airports when the grounding is resolved. It seems the airline has calculated that the cost of parking these aircraft at these other airports would be cheaper than storing the planes at airports where it usually flies the MAX.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/how-us-ai ... e-737-max/
 
DenverA330
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:07 am

Gonna miss the MD's, I remember flying through DFW in the early 00's and getting a sub on a 738 was exciting!
 
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Veigar
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:37 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
amcnd wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
There not coming back.



24 MD-80s being pulled from the desert. 10 to be back on the line April 1st...

AA only has 10 stored, nice try, bad lie.

What is the obsession with bringing planes back that won’t happen?

1. Not on the AOC
2. No qualified pilots to fly them
3. Interiors and other parts stripped
4. Planes not maintenance and AD airworthy
5. Planes not owned nor leased anymore.
6. No spare parts in inventory nor available

Amazing how people don’t think and reach for some fantasy in their head You just don’t go to ROS or MHV, and fly them back and use them into revenue service.



I have seen this posted before, while true for the majority of deserted airplanes, is it true for the very recently retired MD-82?
 
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Veigar
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:39 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
American Airlines

The world’s largest airline — and the second-largest operator of the 737 MAX — has provided a detailed report of what’s going to happen to its 737 MAX aircraft during the grounding.

According to an official at the airline, AA expects to cancel around 85 flights per day due to the grounding. AA is rearranging its flights to try to limit these cancellations to routes that have multiple flights each day, rather than cancelling the only flight to a destination.

For example, on AA’s 2x daily 737 MAX flights to Quito, Ecuador (UIO), the airline is cancelling one flight and swapping in a larger Boeing 757 to accommodate as many passengers as possible. That’s a win for the passengers flying up front, as they will get a true lie-flat business class seat rather than a premium economy seat sold as business class.

22 of the 24 grounded 737 MAX in AA’s fleet are being repositioned for temporary storage. American Airlines has confirmed that these flights will only have flight crew on-board — no passengers or flight attendants. The flights will operate with a 96XX flight number. Four of these flights were in the air at 3:30pm ET:

Once all of the aircraft are repositioned, AA is parking its 24 Boeing 737 MAX at the following airports:

Airport # Tail Numbers
Tulsa (TUL) 9 N350RV, N314RH, N342RX, N335RT, N303RE, N324RN, N326RP, N315RJ, N328RR
Orlando Melbourne (MLB) 3 N308RD, N310RF, N316RK
Mobile Downtown (BFM) 2 N303RG, N323RM
Boston (BOS) 2 N324RA, N321RL
Philadelphia (PHL) 2 N336RU, N338RS
Phoenix (PHX) 2 N304RB, N313SB
New York JFK 1 N306RC
Las Vegas (LAS) 1 N302SA
San Francisco (SFO) 1 N343RY
St. Louis (STL) 1 N341RW
The large number of aircraft being stored at Tulsa makes sense, as American Airlines has a massive maintenance base there. However, besides Boston — which typically has 4x scheduled 737 MAX flights a day — no other airports have scheduled AA 737 MAX flights. That means that AA will have to ferry these aircraft from these airports when the grounding is resolved. It seems the airline has calculated that the cost of parking these aircraft at these other airports would be cheaper than storing the planes at airports where it usually flies the MAX.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/how-us-ai ... e-737-max/


Why are they parking one airplane each at LAS, SFO, and STL? Where even will the parked MAX go at LAS in particular? I don't think it has much storage space.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:45 pm

Cost, Space and places like MLB, BFM have MROs that AA uses for maintenance
 
trnswrld
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:47 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Delta is bringing back the DC-9.


Assuming this is a joke, but have a link for proof of in some case this is true?


Dude, really? Lol
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:49 pm

Veigar wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
amcnd wrote:


24 MD-80s being pulled from the desert. 10 to be back on the line April 1st...

AA only has 10 stored, nice try, bad lie.

What is the obsession with bringing planes back that won’t happen?

1. Not on the AOC
2. No qualified pilots to fly them
3. Interiors and other parts stripped
4. Planes not maintenance and AD airworthy
5. Planes not owned nor leased anymore.
6. No spare parts in inventory nor available

Amazing how people don’t think and reach for some fantasy in their head You just don’t go to ROS or MHV, and fly them back and use them into revenue service.



I have seen this posted before, while true for the majority of deserted airplanes, is it true for the very recently retired MD-82?

Yes they strip them of interiors and valuable and needed parts for spares and sales. And they usually park them just short of the next needed C or D check and also make sure they don’t have to spend the money for needed ADs before they are required.
 
anymaninfc
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:02 pm

Veigar wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
amcnd wrote:


24 MD-80s being pulled from the desert. 10 to be back on the line April 1st...

AA only has 10 stored, nice try, bad lie.

What is the obsession with bringing planes back that won’t happen?

1. Not on the AOC
2. No qualified pilots to fly them
3. Interiors and other parts stripped
4. Planes not maintenance and AD airworthy
5. Planes not owned nor leased anymore.
6. No spare parts in inventory nor available

Amazing how people don’t think and reach for some fantasy in their head You just don’t go to ROS or MHV, and fly them back and use them into revenue service.



I have seen this posted before, while true for the majority of deserted airplanes, is it true for the very recently retired MD-82?


That aircraft, N9624T, is an MD-83, and formerly part of TWA.
 
 
HIA350
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:17 pm

32andBelow wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Veigar wrote:
777PHX wrote:
I doubt it, I don't see this lasting long enough to justify that.


For reference it took about (5 weeks? correct me if I'm off) for DC-10s to be un-grounded .

I bet this is ungrounded by next week after the ET black boxes are read



do you work in the industry? mechanic? engineer? pilot? or you just based on that pilots were not Americans
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:47 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
amcnd wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
There not coming back.



24 MD-80s being pulled from the desert. 10 to be back on the line April 1st...

AA only has 10 stored, nice try, bad lie.

What is the obsession with bringing planes back that won’t happen?

1. Not on the AOC
2. No qualified pilots to fly them
3. Interiors and other parts stripped
4. Planes not maintenance and AD airworthy
5. Planes not owned nor leased anymore.
6. No spare parts in inventory nor available

Amazing how people don’t think and reach for some fantasy in their head You just don’t go to ROS or MHV, and fly them back and use them into revenue service.


I guess the reference to April 1st was totally lost on you. :banghead:
Finally headed to DORKFEST! Sept 7, STL-LAX-PHX-STL. :cloudnine:
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:02 pm

No it wasn’t. Just tired of novices who are clueless
 
smartplane
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:08 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
American Airlines

The world’s largest airline — and the second-largest operator of the 737 MAX — has provided a detailed report of what’s going to happen to its 737 MAX aircraft during the grounding.

According to an official at the airline, AA expects to cancel around 85 flights per day due to the grounding. AA is rearranging its flights to try to limit these cancellations to routes that have multiple flights each day, rather than cancelling the only flight to a destination.

For example, on AA’s 2x daily 737 MAX flights to Quito, Ecuador (UIO), the airline is cancelling one flight and swapping in a larger Boeing 757 to accommodate as many passengers as possible. That’s a win for the passengers flying up front, as they will get a true lie-flat business class seat rather than a premium economy seat sold as business class.

22 of the 24 grounded 737 MAX in AA’s fleet are being repositioned for temporary storage. American Airlines has confirmed that these flights will only have flight crew on-board — no passengers or flight attendants. The flights will operate with a 96XX flight number. Four of these flights were in the air at 3:30pm ET:

Once all of the aircraft are repositioned, AA is parking its 24 Boeing 737 MAX at the following airports:

Airport # Tail Numbers
Tulsa (TUL) 9 N350RV, N314RH, N342RX, N335RT, N303RE, N324RN, N326RP, N315RJ, N328RR
Orlando Melbourne (MLB) 3 N308RD, N310RF, N316RK
Mobile Downtown (BFM) 2 N303RG, N323RM
Boston (BOS) 2 N324RA, N321RL
Philadelphia (PHL) 2 N336RU, N338RS
Phoenix (PHX) 2 N304RB, N313SB
New York JFK 1 N306RC
Las Vegas (LAS) 1 N302SA
San Francisco (SFO) 1 N343RY
St. Louis (STL) 1 N341RW
The large number of aircraft being stored at Tulsa makes sense, as American Airlines has a massive maintenance base there. However, besides Boston — which typically has 4x scheduled 737 MAX flights a day — no other airports have scheduled AA 737 MAX flights. That means that AA will have to ferry these aircraft from these airports when the grounding is resolved. It seems the airline has calculated that the cost of parking these aircraft at these other airports would be cheaper than storing the planes at airports where it usually flies the MAX.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/how-us-ai ... e-737-max/

If anything like the RR 787 groundings, may take the opportunity to make some passenger-related upgrades / tweeks, at Boeing's expense.
 
amcnd
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:18 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
No it wasn’t. Just tired of novices who are clueless


Im not a novice and i was told (APA) mentioned MD80’s coming back online along with there Venezuela memo to pilots..
 
vetjetatl
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:19 pm

Do you guys think there is a bit of overcapacity in the industry right now, resulting in AA being able to deal with the MAX grounding, and continue the MD-80 retirement schedule with minor headaches?
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 pm

The Max grounding is effecting 85 flights a day.

Do you not understand there are no longer pilots qualified to staff the 80s if the 10 parked come back?

There are no parts available to stock, nor maintenance completed on the stored planes?

AA has two Ex F9 A319s online with eight more in the pipeline coming into revenue service.

AA pilots are not a reliable source of information (rumors).

AA is making adjustments to the schedule and moving planes around from other hubs to MIA to cover effected flights and limits it’s impact. For example to cover the canceled MIA-LGA flights AA has been running a spare 777 from JFK-MIA. Running a 757 from MIA-UIO to cover the two MAX flights.

And it looks like the software patch will be available in 10 days from Boeing.

And yes you act like a novice with bad and unreliable rumors.

Venezuela was not a rumor the APA and APFA have been in discussions with AA for a week about crew safety.
Last edited by Boof02671 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:42 pm

smartplane wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
American Airlines

The world’s largest airline — and the second-largest operator of the 737 MAX — has provided a detailed report of what’s going to happen to its 737 MAX aircraft during the grounding.

According to an official at the airline, AA expects to cancel around 85 flights per day due to the grounding. AA is rearranging its flights to try to limit these cancellations to routes that have multiple flights each day, rather than cancelling the only flight to a destination.

For example, on AA’s 2x daily 737 MAX flights to Quito, Ecuador (UIO), the airline is cancelling one flight and swapping in a larger Boeing 757 to accommodate as many passengers as possible. That’s a win for the passengers flying up front, as they will get a true lie-flat business class seat rather than a premium economy seat sold as business class.

22 of the 24 grounded 737 MAX in AA’s fleet are being repositioned for temporary storage. American Airlines has confirmed that these flights will only have flight crew on-board — no passengers or flight attendants. The flights will operate with a 96XX flight number. Four of these flights were in the air at 3:30pm ET:

Once all of the aircraft are repositioned, AA is parking its 24 Boeing 737 MAX at the following airports:

Airport # Tail Numbers
Tulsa (TUL) 9 N350RV, N314RH, N342RX, N335RT, N303RE, N324RN, N326RP, N315RJ, N328RR
Orlando Melbourne (MLB) 3 N308RD, N310RF, N316RK
Mobile Downtown (BFM) 2 N303RG, N323RM
Boston (BOS) 2 N324RA, N321RL
Philadelphia (PHL) 2 N336RU, N338RS
Phoenix (PHX) 2 N304RB, N313SB
New York JFK 1 N306RC
Las Vegas (LAS) 1 N302SA
San Francisco (SFO) 1 N343RY
St. Louis (STL) 1 N341RW
The large number of aircraft being stored at Tulsa makes sense, as American Airlines has a massive maintenance base there. However, besides Boston — which typically has 4x scheduled 737 MAX flights a day — no other airports have scheduled AA 737 MAX flights. That means that AA will have to ferry these aircraft from these airports when the grounding is resolved. It seems the airline has calculated that the cost of parking these aircraft at these other airports would be cheaper than storing the planes at airports where it usually flies the MAX.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/how-us-ai ... e-737-max/

If anything like the RR 787 groundings, may take the opportunity to make some passenger-related upgrades / tweeks, at Boeing's expense.

Boeing is not responsible nor will they pay for anything unrelated to the grounding. Passenger (Oasis) mods are AA’s responsibility.
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:46 pm

amcnd wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
No it wasn’t. Just tired of novices who are clueless


Im not a novice and i was told (APA) mentioned MD80’s coming back online along with there Venezuela memo to pilots..


The company hasn't said anything about more MD80s coming out of ROW. There are no pilots to fly them, when a plane leaves the fleet for ROW the pilots have already transitioned to their new aircraft. Also, most of the posts above are correct, within a few hours of the aircraft arriving in ROW they have already started disassembling them. Especially things that can be reused on other aircraft in the fleet. Those items are removed almost immediately and cause the aircraft to be unairworthy at least to carry passengers.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:26 pm

qcpilotxf wrote:
amcnd wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
No it wasn’t. Just tired of novices who are clueless


Im not a novice and i was told (APA) mentioned MD80’s coming back online along with there Venezuela memo to pilots..


The company hasn't said anything about more MD80s coming out of ROW. There are no pilots to fly them, when a plane leaves the fleet for ROW the pilots have already transitioned to their new aircraft. Also, most of the posts above are correct, within a few hours of the aircraft arriving in ROW they have already started disassembling them. Especially things that can be reused on other aircraft in the fleet. Those items are removed almost immediately and cause the aircraft to be unairworthy at least to carry passengers.

Finally someone who gets it, thank you for a voice of reason and sanity.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:39 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
There not coming back.



You don't know that.........no airline can make anything in stone right now. All options must be open.
 
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Veigar
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:01 pm

One thing is for sure, I sincerely doubt AA will retire any airplanes anytime soon, even the 80s. Not in a precarious state like this.
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:06 pm

Veigar wrote:
One thing is for sure, I sincerely doubt AA will retire any airplanes anytime soon, even the 80s. Not in a precarious state like this.



I'm gonna disagree with you on this. If AA has any Super 80s that are scheduled for retirement during the MAX grounding I bet they will leave the fleet as scheduled. Like I noted above the issue is not having extra airplanes to fly, but having pilots to fly them. Pilots are flowing off the aircraft into their new aircraft and already have class dates.

You can have 100 S80s available but if you only have crews for 25 of them the other 75 are just a waste of money and just sitting around.
 
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Veigar
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:09 pm

qcpilotxf wrote:
Veigar wrote:
One thing is for sure, I sincerely doubt AA will retire any airplanes anytime soon, even the 80s. Not in a precarious state like this.



I'm gonna disagree with you on this. If AA has any Super 80s that are scheduled for retirement during the MAX grounding I bet they will leave the fleet as scheduled. Like I noted above the issue is not having extra airplanes to fly, but having pilots to fly them. Pilots are flowing off the aircraft into their new aircraft and already have class dates.

You can have 100 S80s available but if you only have crews for 25 of them the other 75 are just a waste of money and just sitting around.


I will agree to disagree, but I just don't see AA (or any MAX airline) doing anything at all during the groundings, let alone having planes exit the fleet. There is no harm in extending the retirement dates if they were due within the month, is there? As you said, there are still pilots flying them, they can fly them for a month longer than intended.


Point is that I don't think it'd be wise to have any aircraft leave the fleet during a time like this.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:18 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
There not coming back.



You don't know that.........no airline can make anything in stone right now. All options must be open.

They aren’t airworthy and NO PILOTS to fly them. Yes I do know they aren’t coming back.

Why are you obtuse and can’t understand reality and facts of the truth?
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:20 pm

Veigar wrote:
qcpilotxf wrote:
Veigar wrote:
One thing is for sure, I sincerely doubt AA will retire any airplanes anytime soon, even the 80s. Not in a precarious state like this.



I'm gonna disagree with you on this. If AA has any Super 80s that are scheduled for retirement during the MAX grounding I bet they will leave the fleet as scheduled. Like I noted above the issue is not having extra airplanes to fly, but having pilots to fly them. Pilots are flowing off the aircraft into their new aircraft and already have class dates.

You can have 100 S80s available but if you only have crews for 25 of them the other 75 are just a waste of money and just sitting around.


I will agree to disagree, but I just don't see AA (or any MAX airline) doing anything at all during the groundings, let alone having planes exit the fleet. There is no harm in extending the retirement dates if they were due within the month, is there? As you said, there are still pilots flying them, they can fly them for a month longer than intended.


Point is that I don't think it'd be wise to have any aircraft leave the fleet during a time like this.

Apparently you have no understanding of the pilots contract and their union. You just can’t force a pilot to stay on a particular type.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:26 pm

Veigar wrote:
I will agree to disagree, but I just don't see AA (or any MAX airline) doing anything at all during the groundings, let alone having planes exit the fleet. There is no harm in extending the retirement dates if they were due within the month, is there? As you said, there are still pilots flying them, they can fly them for a month longer than intended.


Point is that I don't think it'd be wise to have any aircraft leave the fleet during a time like this.


Keep in mind, airlines like money. They carefully time retirement schedules (especially for end-of-life aircraft) to major scheduled checks.
As a result, a plane flown to a retirement graveyard is typically needing a major check very soon, were it to keep operating.

Yes, we can imagine some postponements, and indeed airlines are apparently crunching numbers, and evaluating, how to squeeze extra hours out of these frames. But a decision to extend S80 operations is a major one -- stopping retraining pilots (and they already moved on, mentally and organizationally); putting frames through heavy checks (not a quick process, weeks I gather; plus spare parts availability seem to be a major concern) -- it's all quite expensive, and such a decision would have to come up from somewhere very high up the chain. Finally, it's literally too late to have a major impact -- AA has barely 10% of the numbers of S80's it used to operate, and is planning to get rid of them before year end regardless.
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Veigar
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:28 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
Veigar wrote:
I will agree to disagree, but I just don't see AA (or any MAX airline) doing anything at all during the groundings, let alone having planes exit the fleet. There is no harm in extending the retirement dates if they were due within the month, is there? As you said, there are still pilots flying them, they can fly them for a month longer than intended.


Point is that I don't think it'd be wise to have any aircraft leave the fleet during a time like this.


Keep in mind, airlines like money. They carefully time retirement schedules (especially for end-of-life aircraft) to major scheduled checks.
As a result, a plane flown to a retirement graveyard is typically needing a major check very soon, were it to keep operating.

Yes, we can imagine some postponements, and indeed airlines are apparently crunching numbers, and evaluating, how to squeeze extra hours out of these frames. But a decision to extend S80 operations is a major one -- stopping retraining pilots (and they already moved on, mentally and organizationally); putting frames through heavy checks (not a quick process, weeks I gather; plus spare parts availability seem to be a major concern) -- it's all quite expensive, and such a decision would have to come up from somewhere very high up the chain. Finally, it's literally too late to have a major impact -- AA has barely 10% of the numbers of S80's it used to operate, and is planning to get rid of them before year end regardless.


The issue with this (just my misunderstanding) is how often they kept saying that all would be gone by a time where they ended up not being retired anyways. When were they initially set to leave the fleet?
 
777PHX
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:43 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
American Airlines

The world’s largest airline — and the second-largest operator of the 737 MAX — has provided a detailed report of what’s going to happen to its 737 MAX aircraft during the grounding.

According to an official at the airline, AA expects to cancel around 85 flights per day due to the grounding. AA is rearranging its flights to try to limit these cancellations to routes that have multiple flights each day, rather than cancelling the only flight to a destination.

For example, on AA’s 2x daily 737 MAX flights to Quito, Ecuador (UIO), the airline is cancelling one flight and swapping in a larger Boeing 757 to accommodate as many passengers as possible. That’s a win for the passengers flying up front, as they will get a true lie-flat business class seat rather than a premium economy seat sold as business class.

22 of the 24 grounded 737 MAX in AA’s fleet are being repositioned for temporary storage. American Airlines has confirmed that these flights will only have flight crew on-board — no passengers or flight attendants. The flights will operate with a 96XX flight number. Four of these flights were in the air at 3:30pm ET:

Once all of the aircraft are repositioned, AA is parking its 24 Boeing 737 MAX at the following airports:

Airport # Tail Numbers
Tulsa (TUL) 9 N350RV, N314RH, N342RX, N335RT, N303RE, N324RN, N326RP, N315RJ, N328RR
Orlando Melbourne (MLB) 3 N308RD, N310RF, N316RK
Mobile Downtown (BFM) 2 N303RG, N323RM
Boston (BOS) 2 N324RA, N321RL
Philadelphia (PHL) 2 N336RU, N338RS
Phoenix (PHX) 2 N304RB, N313SB
New York JFK 1 N306RC
Las Vegas (LAS) 1 N302SA
San Francisco (SFO) 1 N343RY
St. Louis (STL) 1 N341RW
The large number of aircraft being stored at Tulsa makes sense, as American Airlines has a massive maintenance base there. However, besides Boston — which typically has 4x scheduled 737 MAX flights a day — no other airports have scheduled AA 737 MAX flights. That means that AA will have to ferry these aircraft from these airports when the grounding is resolved. It seems the airline has calculated that the cost of parking these aircraft at these other airports would be cheaper than storing the planes at airports where it usually flies the MAX.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/how-us-ai ... e-737-max/


Most of them are current or former hubs of US/AA and several of them still have AA mx facilities. I would wager they have the real estate available at these airports to park them cost effectively.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm

The last of them will be gone at the end of the summer I believe.

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... leet-plan/

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... uary-2019/

American just released its annual fleet plan update this morning. Looks like the MD80 will finally exit the fleet this year and all of the 767-300s will be gone by 2021 thanks to the new 787 order. They are taking 9 767s out of the fleet this year but only adding 2 787-9s. Interesting that the 330-300 is now still in the fleet in 2021 whereas last year they had it gone by 2020. 321neo and 737 MAX ramps have also been slowed somewhat. Retiring 10 757s this year, but still show 24 in 2021. I wouldn't be surprised to see AA replace those 24 with Boeing's MMA (if it launches!).

On the regional side they are adding more E175s while retiring more of the 140s relative to 2018.

Here is the commentary AA had with the release:
In 2019, the company expects to take delivery of 46 mainline aircraft comprised of 17 A321neo aircraft, 20 B738 MAX aircraft, 2 B789 aircraft and 7 used A319 aircraft. The company also expects to retire 55 mainline aircraft, including 10 B757 aircraft, 9 B763 aircraft, 6 E190 aircraft and 30 MD80 aircraft.
In 2019, the company expects to increase the regional fleet count by a net of 12 aircraft, resulting from the addition of 11 CRJ900 aircraft and 20 E175 aircraft, as well as the reduction of 14 CRJ200 aircraft and 5 ERJ140 aircraft.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:53 pm

Veigar wrote:
The issue with this (just my misunderstanding) is how often they kept saying that all would be gone by a time where they ended up not being retired anyways. When were they initially set to leave the fleet?

Initial figures might have been different, but for the last couple of years, AA seems to be consistent with 2019 as target retirement time:
viewtopic.php?t=1378063
First sentence of the thread:
"In a quick summary, American has announced that their MD-80 fleet will all be retired in 2019"

Please scan through the thread -- it's fairly rich with all kinds of issues any attempt, by AA, to keep S80 past Decemeber 2019, will run into.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:24 am

Veigar wrote:
qcpilotxf wrote:
Veigar wrote:
One thing is for sure, I sincerely doubt AA will retire any airplanes anytime soon, even the 80s. Not in a precarious state like this.



I'm gonna disagree with you on this. If AA has any Super 80s that are scheduled for retirement during the MAX grounding I bet they will leave the fleet as scheduled. Like I noted above the issue is not having extra airplanes to fly, but having pilots to fly them. Pilots are flowing off the aircraft into their new aircraft and already have class dates.

You can have 100 S80s available but if you only have crews for 25 of them the other 75 are just a waste of money and just sitting around.


I will agree to disagree, but I just don't see AA (or any MAX airline) doing anything at all during the groundings, let alone having planes exit the fleet. There is no harm in extending the retirement dates if they were due within the month, is there? As you said, there are still pilots flying them, they can fly them for a month longer than intended.


Point is that I don't think it'd be wise to have any aircraft leave the fleet during a time like this.

Most planned retirements are driven by an upcoming maintenance check of rather large and costly size. The only exception would be the final draw down of the fleet when the last 10-15 planes all exit on the same day.

Most fleets the size of the AA MD80 have roughly 3-4 planes due for these events every month. So they get flown right up to the drop dead date and then ferry them to a facility like ROW instead of a Maintenance Base. They have already stopped performing these types of checks on the fleet for quite some time now. The facilities that did perform these checks are now filled with other work. So it isn't as simple as saying I just will not retire the next planned ten retirements. The capacity to do the required work isn't available. By the time you found the place with the capability and the space in the schedule and then do the month long check per airplane, the Max problem will be fixed.
 
smartplane
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:56 am

Boof02671 wrote:
smartplane wrote:
If anything like the RR 787 groundings, may take the opportunity to make some passenger-related upgrades / tweeks, at Boeing's expense.

Boeing is not responsible nor will they pay for anything unrelated to the grounding. Passenger (Oasis) mods are AA’s responsibility.

I didn't make it clear enough for you.

If Boeing is already compensating airlines because they cannot fly their MAX's, owners can take the opportunity of the enforced idle time to modify the interior, fit updated IFE software, etc.

Not suggesting Boeing will fund such upgrades, though air frame and engine OEM's prefer to provide credits rather than cash compensation, so may in fact end up paying for the idle time and unrelated improvements.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:00 am

smartplane wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
smartplane wrote:
If anything like the RR 787 groundings, may take the opportunity to make some passenger-related upgrades / tweeks, at Boeing's expense.

Boeing is not responsible nor will they pay for anything unrelated to the grounding. Passenger (Oasis) mods are AA’s responsibility.

I didn't make it clear enough for you.

If Boeing is already compensating airlines because they cannot fly their MAX's, owners can take the opportunity of the enforced idle time to modify the interior, fit updated IFE software, etc.

Not suggesting Boeing will fund such upgrades, though air frame and engine OEM's prefer to provide credits rather than cash compensation, so may in fact end up paying for the idle time and unrelated improvements.

Your post clearly states “at Boeing’s expense”
 
DDR
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:05 am

People, listen up. This grounding WILL NOT result in Super 80s moving from the desert to active service. None, nada, zilch will move from the desert to active service. There are no pilots to fly them.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:11 am

DDR wrote:
People, listen up. This grounding WILL NOT result in Super 80s moving from the desert to active service. None, nada, zilch will move from the desert to active service. There are no pilots to fly them.

Exactly and it would cost way too much money and time to make them airworthy.
 
w3gar
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:15 am

jfk777 wrote:
757 could stay longer for Latin America. 2001 737-800 could stay longer since those early 737 are do to be retired for mysterious reasons.

They are, the 757s will continue to be deployed to BSB.
https://simpleflying.com/american-airli ... ght-plans/
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:02 am

They also have some late build TWA frames 20-22 years is barely used with the MD-80 series. The fuselage is rate for something like 100k cycles or something ridiculous.
 
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:57 pm

AA’s latest figures are the 85 flights a day effected due to the Max grounding is 1.27% of total flights.

No planes coming back from the desert for those figures. Sorry to dash you’re hopes and dreams.
 
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American 767
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:30 pm

Boof02671 wrote:


Can you believe that N501AA, the sole MD-82 left, is almost 30? Unbelievable, considering that all the other remaining Super 80s are ex-TWA -83 variants dating from the late 90s, those include N984TW the last MD-80 built. By the time American retires its last MD-80, N501AA will be one month shy of turning 30!
Ben Soriano
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:41 pm

I think a more likely solution is increased frequencies on regionals (on CRJ900 and E175). Better than ferrying in MD80s, and a whole lot cheaper.
Can someone please start a wikipedia list of failed startup airlines? I am interested in seeing just how long it would be...
 
indcwby
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:00 pm

A319, A320, A330, A340, B717, B727, B737, B747, B757, B767, B777, CRJ7, DC10, MD88, MD11, E145, E175
"Always remember that you fly an airplane with your head, not your hands."
 
trnswrld
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:14 am

American 767 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:


Can you believe that N501AA, the sole MD-82 left, is almost 30? Unbelievable, considering that all the other remaining Super 80s are ex-TWA -83 variants dating from the late 90s, those include N984TW the last MD-80 built. By the time American retires its last MD-80, N501AA will be one month shy of turning 30!


That really is crazy that out of all the MD80s AA had they are literally down to ONE original AA bird left. I’m glad to see some of those TWA jets still flying.
 
FltAdmiralRitt
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Re: Will MAX grounding delay AA MD-80 retirements AGAIN?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:34 am

Looks like the B737 MAX problem comes too late in the MD80 drawdown cycle for any options to be viable.

Does anyone really think a software fix on the B737 is going to satisfy the Public or foreign carriers for that matter.
it doesn't feel like a 10 day situation, it seems like a 18 month recertifying situation.

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