gregn21
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:40 pm

32andBelow wrote:
spinotter wrote:
B747forever wrote:

With LAX being the number one O&D airport in the world, I much rather prefer the current layout with short distance between curb to gate than something like ATL.


But O&D does not have to depend upon private automobile traffic. Look at Schiphol, What percentage of passengers arrive by rail as opposed to all other forms of transit? So why couldn't LAX be the same way? APM plus Crenshaw plus Red Line to downtown LA? Pitiful. Whether they chose tracked or rubber-tire or separate autonomous vehicles for the APM under construction, it deposits you very far from where anyone wants to go.

Because the passengers come from a 200 mile radius around LAX how are they all going to get on the train?


The APM is not just for people connecting from the Metro. It leaves from the new designated rideshare drop off station and the consolidated rental car facility. Basically, anyone connecting from the metro, ride share passengers, and car renters will have no option but to ride the APM.
 
blockski
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:03 pm

gregn21 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
spinotter wrote:

But O&D does not have to depend upon private automobile traffic. Look at Schiphol, What percentage of passengers arrive by rail as opposed to all other forms of transit? So why couldn't LAX be the same way? APM plus Crenshaw plus Red Line to downtown LA? Pitiful. Whether they chose tracked or rubber-tire or separate autonomous vehicles for the APM under construction, it deposits you very far from where anyone wants to go.

Because the passengers come from a 200 mile radius around LAX how are they all going to get on the train?


The APM is not just for people connecting from the Metro. It leaves from the new designated rideshare drop off station and the consolidated rental car facility. Basically, anyone connecting from the metro, ride share passengers, and car renters will have no option but to ride the APM.


I was trying to find the definitive number of new parking spaces as a part of LAMP, but couldn’t find it easily. But there will be thousands of them, all accessible via the APM. Not to mention the shuttles to hotels, etc. which will all be directed to the ITF facilities, plus the rental car customers.

All in all, there will be a lot of people using the people mover.
 
Cunard
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:52 pm

Isn't this proposed APM for LAX very similar to the shuttle between the North and South Terminals at London Gatwick Airport!

The LGW terminal shuttle is built above ground on an elevated concrete causeway and the vehicles use rubber tyres and are electrically operated.

This proposed APM for LAX will totally revolutionise the airport and can't come soon enough.
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Bradin
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:13 pm

What's the concern about using rubber tyres? It's not like their steel counterparts don't need maintenance.
 
Cunard
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:33 pm

Bradin wrote:
What's the concern about using rubber tyres? It's not like their steel counterparts don't need maintenance.


Only ONE poster made a comment regarding ''rubber tyres'' and no one responded to his post so therefore I don't think that anyone has a concern over ''rubber tyres''.

The same system is used throughout the world and I gave a similar example being the link between the North and South Terminals at London Gatwick Airport.
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SRT75
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:49 pm

The thing is that you can change that paradigm. Build a denser city and the transportation and infrastructure to support it, and a city can transform pretty quickly.


That would require coercion, via fees to enter the property in an automobile, shutting down the horseshoe roadway, closing all the parking garages between terminals, etc., and that's not going to happen. As noted elsewhere, less than 10% of passengers arrive via mass transit. Why ride a bus when you can Uber?

So this is some "feel good" spending by Los Angeles. Build mass transit for the sake of saying you built mass transit so you can pat yourself on the back. Then drive your car to work, the grocery store, the airport, etc.

Surprised the old saw of a "LAX alternative" hasn't popped up on this thread yet. Build high-speed rail from ONT to downtown and try to get ONT to absorb LA domestic air traffic.
 
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United787
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:09 pm

I took the Metro from downtown to LAX 18 months ago because I had the time, wanted to experience it for myself and didn't want to spend cash on an Uber. I had low expectations but the experience was even worse. What a joke. And to think, they aren't even bringing the train directly to the terminals but instead doing a NYC AirTrain thing... Happy to see they are at least doing that.

For all the slack Chicago gets on this forum, at least we can say we have direct, one-seat, CTA trains that connect downtown to BOTH airports. Who is the 2nd City now NYC and LA?
 
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compensateme
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:21 pm

United787 wrote:
I For all the slack Chicago gets on this forum, at least we can say we have direct, one-seat, CTA trains that connect downtown to BOTH airports. Who is the 2nd City now NYC and LA?


Easy -- the second city is Atlanta. From the airport, you can efficiently take the MARTA to anywhere relevant within the Atlanta area.
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janders
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:36 pm

United787 wrote:
I took the Metro from downtown to LAX 18 months ago because I had the time, wanted to experience it for myself and didn't want to spend cash on an Uber. I had low expectations but the experience was even worse. What a joke. And to think, they aren't even bringing the train directly to the terminals but instead doing a NYC AirTrain thing... Happy to see they are at least doing that.

For all the slack Chicago gets on this forum, at least we can say we have direct, one-seat, CTA trains that connect downtown to BOTH airports. Who is the 2nd City now NYC and LA?


Why on earth would you take the train, when you have frequent, nonstop FlyAway bus link between Union Station and LAX? Bus travels on HOV freeway lanes so traffic rarely issue.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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remcor
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:06 pm

Cunard wrote:
Bradin wrote:
What's the concern about using rubber tyres? It's not like their steel counterparts don't need maintenance.


Only ONE poster made a comment regarding ''rubber tyres'' and no one responded to his post so therefore I don't think that anyone has a concern over ''rubber tyres''.

The same system is used throughout the world and I gave a similar example being the link between the North and South Terminals at London Gatwick Airport.


Rubber tires are also on a few Paris Metro lines (I think they started the trend), on all trains in Mexico city and Montreal, etc. Apparently they can be quieter but, maybe more importantly for this, they can climb steeper gradients than traditional steel wheels.
 
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remcor
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:16 pm

janders wrote:
United787 wrote:
I took the Metro from downtown to LAX 18 months ago because I had the time, wanted to experience it for myself and didn't want to spend cash on an Uber. I had low expectations but the experience was even worse. What a joke. And to think, they aren't even bringing the train directly to the terminals but instead doing a NYC AirTrain thing... Happy to see they are at least doing that.
For all the slack Chicago gets on this forum, at least we can say we have direct, one-seat, CTA trains that connect downtown to BOTH airports. Who is the 2nd City now NYC and LA?


Why on earth would you take the train, when you have frequent, nonstop FlyAway bus link between Union Station and LAX? Bus travels on HOV freeway lanes so traffic rarely issue.


Good point, FlyAway's not a bad ride. I'm thinking also that the train could be a good resource for people who work at the airport, in which case access to the surrounding working-class areas is important.

The people-mover option as opposed to the Crenshaw-line going straight to the terminals option doesn't seem so bad. If the Crenshaw line went straight to the terminals it would probably just make 1 stop, meaning a pretty long walk for many people. Second, other stops on the people mover will take people to a consolidated rental car facility (a definite upgrade for LAX eliminating the need for some polluting busses on the inner loop) and an inter modal terminal that could accept busses from Burbank, Santa Barbara and Ventura etc.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:49 pm

WALmsp wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Beechtobus wrote:
This (and the Crenshaw Line) can’t open soon enough and hopefully bring an end to the abysmal task of getting into/out of LAX via World Way. Thrilled that a 1/2 mile Uber ride, or 15 min walk to my closest metro stop will soon get me to LAX relatively quickly and traffic free.

Still cannot believe that even after the people mover and the Crenshaw line opens, there will still not be a one or 2 seat for that matter, rail connection to downtown LA. I know LA is not nearly as downtown centric as most other American cities, but still, 3 trains from the airport to downtown of the USAs #2 city.

I concur. I do not understand why the green line doesn't get there. Then have it hook North, connecting two heavy rail into Union station. While I'm daydreaming, I'll want the boring company to do a new road lower loby to all the terminals (no lobby), nove a runway north, build T0 and UA's new terminal.

Oh, and a new airport for San Diego and rail to ONT from downtown. I'm not greedy.

This is a drop in the bucket. I extremely dislike 75 minute loips on OneWorld way.

Lightsaber


IIRC, the train was never given direct access to the airport because of objections from the taxi companies.


The Taxi Mafia have held LAX, JFK,LGA and countless other US airports hostage when it comes to ground transportation for decades. Uber was a massive fight. $5 ride out of LAX to El Segundo in Uber, costs $18 in a taxi. This new LAX train connector cannot come quick enough!! I actually love LAX airport (even though I am originally from England) I know how to make it work. All so overdue!
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LAXintl
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:09 pm

LAXLHR wrote:

The Taxi Mafia have held LAX, JFK,LGA and countless other US airports hostage when it comes to ground transportation for decades. Uber was a massive fight. $5 ride out of LAX to El Segundo in Uber, costs $18 in a taxi.


That $18 fare is set by the city and includes host of taxes.
For LAX specifically, LAWA requires $4.00 pick up fee into the fare which is $15 minimum on trips that originate at the airport.
So taxis do not earn anywhere close to the full fare you pay them.
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c933103
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:09 am

Bradin wrote:
What's the concern about using rubber tyres? It's not like their steel counterparts don't need maintenance.

One concern could be space available? I remember China unveiled the autonomous BRT but the large rubber tyres eating into internal space make the amount of space available in the cabin being less than comparable trams.
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Bradin
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:19 am

c933103 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
What's the concern about using rubber tyres? It's not like their steel counterparts don't need maintenance.

One concern could be space available? I remember China unveiled the autonomous BRT but the large rubber tyres eating into internal space make the amount of space available in the cabin being less than comparable trams.


If it's a long train ride, definitely a valid concern. But for a short quick jump to and from the terminals - would that be a concern?
 
c933103
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:19 pm

Bradin wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
What's the concern about using rubber tyres? It's not like their steel counterparts don't need maintenance.

One concern could be space available? I remember China unveiled the autonomous BRT but the large rubber tyres eating into internal space make the amount of space available in the cabin being less than comparable trams.


If it's a long train ride, definitely a valid concern. But for a short quick jump to and from the terminals - would that be a concern?

For space available it definitely would be a concern when you consider passengers will also be carrying all the luggages as they will use this transport before check in or after pick up them
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Bradin
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:09 pm

c933103 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
c933103 wrote:
One concern could be space available? I remember China unveiled the autonomous BRT but the large rubber tyres eating into internal space make the amount of space available in the cabin being less than comparable trams.


If it's a long train ride, definitely a valid concern. But for a short quick jump to and from the terminals - would that be a concern?

For space available it definitely would be a concern when you consider passengers will also be carrying all the luggages as they will use this transport before check in or after pick up them


A train leaving every minute or two doesn't bother me much. Plus the trains in Las Vegas running between terminals is rubber tyres and they don't appear to have issues with space :)
 
c933103
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:40 pm

Bradin wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Bradin wrote:

If it's a long train ride, definitely a valid concern. But for a short quick jump to and from the terminals - would that be a concern?

For space available it definitely would be a concern when you consider passengers will also be carrying all the luggages as they will use this transport before check in or after pick up them


A train leaving every minute or two doesn't bother me much. Plus the trains in Las Vegas running between terminals is rubber tyres and they don't appear to have issues with space :)

That sort of rubber tire metro still use track or guide rail, and that will also be what LAX airport will be using to build the APM according to my knowledge, unlike the alternative we are discussing that would have to use more bus-like vehicle
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spinotter
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:47 pm

c933103 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
c933103 wrote:
For space available it definitely would be a concern when you consider passengers will also be carrying all the luggages as they will use this transport before check in or after pick up them


A train leaving every minute or two doesn't bother me much. Plus the trains in Las Vegas running between terminals is rubber tyres and they don't appear to have issues with space :)

That sort of rubber tire metro still use track or guide rail, and that will also be what LAX airport will be using to build the APM according to my knowledge, unlike the alternative we are discussing that would have to use more bus-like vehicle


So what are the advantages and disadvantages of the more bus-like vehicles compared to the train-like vehicles? I think the trains will always have more throughput. The buses more freedom for trajectory and thus pick-up locations. If both are driver-free, they are alike in that respect. Why do you prefer bus-like vehicles?
 
Bradin
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:56 pm

c933103 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
c933103 wrote:
For space available it definitely would be a concern when you consider passengers will also be carrying all the luggages as they will use this transport before check in or after pick up them


A train leaving every minute or two doesn't bother me much. Plus the trains in Las Vegas running between terminals is rubber tyres and they don't appear to have issues with space :)

That sort of rubber tire metro still use track or guide rail, and that will also be what LAX airport will be using to build the APM according to my knowledge, unlike the alternative we are discussing that would have to use more bus-like vehicle


Like the Heathrow pod shuttles?
 
Cunard
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:25 pm

Bradin wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Bradin wrote:

A train leaving every minute or two doesn't bother me much. Plus the trains in Las Vegas running between terminals is rubber tyres and they don't appear to have issues with space :)

That sort of rubber tire metro still use track or guide rail, and that will also be what LAX airport will be using to build the APM according to my knowledge, unlike the alternative we are discussing that would have to use more bus-like vehicle


Like the Heathrow pod shuttles?


The difference being that those Heathrow Terminal 5 pod shuttles are pathetic and are in no way any comparison to what's planned for LAX.

As I've already mentioned a good comparison is the link between the North and South terminals at LGW.
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LovePrunesAnet
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:37 pm

gregn21 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
spinotter wrote:

But O&D does not have to depend upon private automobile traffic. Look at Schiphol, What percentage of passengers arrive by rail as opposed to all other forms of transit? So why couldn't LAX be the same way? APM plus Crenshaw plus Red Line to downtown LA? Pitiful. Whether they chose tracked or rubber-tire or separate autonomous vehicles for the APM under construction, it deposits you very far from where anyone wants to go.

Because the passengers come from a 200 mile radius around LAX how are they all going to get on the train?


The APM is not just for people connecting from the Metro. It leaves from the new designated rideshare drop off station and the consolidated rental car facility. Basically, anyone connecting from the metro, ride share passengers, and car renters will have no option but to ride the APM.


along with people being picked up in shuttles to parking lots, hotels, and so on. ALL the commercial shuttle vehicles will be gone from the roadways, not just car rental shuttles. It should make a HUGE difference.
 
c933103
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:36 pm

spinotter wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Bradin wrote:

A train leaving every minute or two doesn't bother me much. Plus the trains in Las Vegas running between terminals is rubber tyres and they don't appear to have issues with space :)

That sort of rubber tire metro still use track or guide rail, and that will also be what LAX airport will be using to build the APM according to my knowledge, unlike the alternative we are discussing that would have to use more bus-like vehicle


So what are the advantages and disadvantages of the more bus-like vehicles compared to the train-like vehicles? I think the trains will always have more throughput. The buses more freedom for trajectory and thus pick-up locations. If both are driver-free, they are alike in that respect. Why do you prefer bus-like vehicles?

I am not preferring them, I just pointed out some disadvantages of them
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spinotter
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Re: LA officials break ground on LAX people mover

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:49 pm

c933103 wrote:
spinotter wrote:
c933103 wrote:
That sort of rubber tire metro still use track or guide rail, and that will also be what LAX airport will be using to build the APM according to my knowledge, unlike the alternative we are discussing that would have to use more bus-like vehicle


So what are the advantages and disadvantages of the more bus-like vehicles compared to the train-like vehicles? I think the trains will always have more throughput. The buses more freedom for trajectory and thus pick-up locations. If both are driver-free, they are alike in that respect. Why do you prefer bus-like vehicles?

I am not preferring them, I just pointed out some disadvantages of them


Sorry, I meant to ask anyone what the advantages of a trackless autonomous vehicle system might be. Certainly at least one poster here seemed to be strongly in favor of this over a tracked multiple-car train system. Cost, flexibility, etc.? However, it seems as if the LAX APM has settled on a technology.

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