Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Interested
Posts: 887
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 12:19 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:27 pm

oschkosch wrote:
Interested wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
I estimate that around 23,77% to 29,46% of all Max orders will be cancelled in the foreseeable future.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk



What's your estimate for new Max orders agreed whilst these cancellations come in?
None. Yours?

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk


I'm more optimistic than you

1 to 2
 
Interested
Posts: 887
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 12:19 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:29 pm

Aquila3 wrote:
Interested wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I would agree; if the 737 was simply grounded for a short period, exactly as specified in your post. Say for a routine fix that was trivial. Or a more serious engine issue, but non-lethal.

But this situation is anything but simple.
It isn't just a grounding, but a serious review of the whole shebang.
An FBI probe
FAA certification under the microscope.
Two major crashes with serious loss of life.
Public concern across the whole planet... apart from the USA.

Boeing aren't just selling a lump of metal; they are selling a reputation. Airlines have in the past been able to boldly proclaim "Proud to Fly Boeing".
Now, not so much. I think that qualifies as breach of contract.

But then again, I should defer to an industry professional such as Steve Rimmer, CEO of Issaquah-based Altavair, quoted above. He wouldn't lie, would he?
BTW - Where exactly is Issaquah? Sounds vaguely like Oman, or UAE. Whereas in fact it is in Washington state, just 11 miles from Boeing Field. :lol:


I agree that tg e key to that Steve Rimmer statement is the last bit. You can't terminate a contract "if grounded for a short period"

Definition of short period will be interesting. And like you I don't expect this to be a "short period" even in a definition that makes that period long !!

This a 3 to 6 month problem minimum. And I honestly believe if anybody investigating this with any power has safety as the paramount concern then planes that need a macs system to offer stable flight may not even be allowed to fly ever again of commercial passenger planes at least. It's an unneeded risk to have to take.

Well, is to be seen when INDONESIAN certification authority will release the grounding.
In this case , for obvious reasons, i do not see all the world following the FAA blindly.


With the spotlight of the world on their next decision I don't think FAA will make a rushed decision again for a while now. Or for at least as long as they continue to exist,
 
oschkosch
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:04 pm

Interested wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
Interested wrote:


What's your estimate for new Max orders agreed whilst these cancellations come in?
None. Yours?

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk


I'm more optimistic than you

1 to 2
is that in pieces, number of orders of x pieces or in %?

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk
:stirthepot: :airplane: "This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys" :airplane: :stirthepot:
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 19547
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:21 pm

Interested wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
Interested wrote:


What's your estimate for new Max orders agreed whilst these cancellations come in?
None. Yours?

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk


I'm more optimistic than you

1 to 2

This frees up slots. Once a fix is in place, Boeing will have to discount the added safety features (added probes, the light, probably to free) and they'll be able to sell. The airlines will want to obviously know the fix, but this is a business opportunity for the airlines looking to buy. Boeing needs sales to be net positive by Paris to turn around the negative PR, so they will be a motivated seller.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 941
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:24 pm

lightsaber wrote:
This frees up slots. Once a fix is in place, Boeing will have to discount the added safety features (added probes, the light, probably to free) and they'll be able to sell. The airlines will want to obviously know the fix, but this is a business opportunity for the airlines looking to buy. Boeing needs sales to be net positive by Paris to turn around the negative PR, so they will be a motivated seller.

Lightsaber


I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see a large Max order from Ryanair in the next few months.
 
oschkosch
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Interested wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
None. Yours?

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk


I'm more optimistic than you

1 to 2

This frees up slots. Once a fix is in place, Boeing will have to discount the added safety features (added probes, the light, probably to free) and they'll be able to sell. The airlines will want to obviously know the fix, but this is a business opportunity for the airlines looking to buy. Boeing needs sales to be net positive by Paris to turn around the negative PR, so they will be a motivated seller.

Lightsaber
I sincerley believe they will have to severely discount the entire thing in order to get any more sales at all.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk
:stirthepot: :airplane: "This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys" :airplane: :stirthepot:
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:28 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
Jet Airways's orders for 210+ MAX are as good as gone too.


Again, no point mentioning Jet Airways. This airline was doomed long before MAX shenanigans.
 
WNbob
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:36 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:21 pm

Well, the operators may not be able to get out of taking contract orders but surely they can say, hey aircrafts sitting on ground don't make no $$ and who's going to reimburse us?

The good news is, it seems this MCAS thing is what generating all the smoke but is eminently fixable. Trick is, how Boeing is gonna to explain it and keep liability low.
 
travelhound
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:30 am

I'd suggest Garuda can influence passenger buying decisions by cancelling the 737MAX. In marketing terms they have an opportunity to increase ticket sales by being a "safer".

If we consider the Lion Group predominantly operates the 737 and Garuda's LCC unit, (Citilink) the A320, Garuda can effectively make a marketing point of difference between two airlines where the major difference prior to the accident was simply price.

It will be interesting to follow this one through. We could see some blips in the market share figures in the following months / years.
 
716131
Topic Author
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:51 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:27 am

And hope they will need to discuss some replacement for it's MAX soon.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
StudiodeKadent
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:43 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:50 am

SQ789 wrote:
And hope they will need to discuss some replacement for it's MAX soon.


Airbus A220s perhaps? Bigger seats allow them to push the "we're the better, more premium airline" angle, and with both smaller jets (with comparable range) and lesser capacity they could do it viably. The A220 also has less of a manufacturing backlog than the 737 MAX or the A320neo.
 
osiris30
Posts: 2681
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:16 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:57 am

WNbob wrote:
Well, the operators may not be able to get out of taking contract orders but surely they can say, hey aircrafts sitting on ground don't make no $$ and who's going to reimburse us?

The good news is, it seems this MCAS thing is what generating all the smoke but is eminently fixable. Trick is, how Boeing is gonna to explain it and keep liability low.


That is easy; liability is already low as long as it cannot be demonstrated they willfully violated industry accepted processes for certification. So long as they can show the error wasn't made out of greed or willful negligence their liability will be pretty limited in the courts and their error and omissions insurance will pick up the tab.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
ewt340
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:57 am

StudiodeKadent wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
And hope they will need to discuss some replacement for it's MAX soon.


Airbus A220s perhaps? Bigger seats allow them to push the "we're the better, more premium airline" angle, and with both smaller jets (with comparable range) and lesser capacity they could do it viably. The A220 also has less of a manufacturing backlog than the 737 MAX or the A320neo.


While it's an awesome aircraft. It might be too small for them. A320neo would probably a better options. Besides, they could get to have A321neo in the mix. It's a better combo than A220.
 
StudiodeKadent
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:43 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:06 am

ewt340 wrote:
StudiodeKadent wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
And hope they will need to discuss some replacement for it's MAX soon.


Airbus A220s perhaps? Bigger seats allow them to push the "we're the better, more premium airline" angle, and with both smaller jets (with comparable range) and lesser capacity they could do it viably. The A220 also has less of a manufacturing backlog than the 737 MAX or the A320neo.


While it's an awesome aircraft. It might be too small for them. A320neo would probably a better options. Besides, they could get to have A321neo in the mix. It's a better combo than A220.


I know Indonesia has a huge population, but the number of people willing/able to pay a modest premium for a better experience seems to be quite small in Indonesia, given how much LCC traffic they have. The A220 might be a 'right sizing' if anything. And the potential for an A220-500 is clearly there, too.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:00 am

StudiodeKadent wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
StudiodeKadent wrote:

Airbus A220s perhaps? Bigger seats allow them to push the "we're the better, more premium airline" angle, and with both smaller jets (with comparable range) and lesser capacity they could do it viably. The A220 also has less of a manufacturing backlog than the 737 MAX or the A320neo.


While it's an awesome aircraft. It might be too small for them. A320neo would probably a better options. Besides, they could get to have A321neo in the mix. It's a better combo than A220.


I know Indonesia has a huge population, but the number of people willing/able to pay a modest premium for a better experience seems to be quite small in Indonesia, given how much LCC traffic they have. The A220 might be a 'right sizing' if anything. And the potential for an A220-500 is clearly there, too.


Well yeah that make sense. Except the fact that because the premium market is soo small. Garuda uses B737-800 for many international routes by stretching its range to its upper limit and fly them around Southeast Asia and Perth.

Now A321LR would come up to play. It's a lower risk investment that airlines like Garuda need. Citilink already operated A320neo. So it's not an extra money to operate one.
Secondly, they could focus on International flights from secondary cities like SUB and DPS. These would be a better opportunity for them rather than using widebody aircraft.

All destinations in Japan, South Korea, China, South Asia, Australia and some major destinations in the Middle east are reachable by A321LR.
 
User avatar
afterburner
Posts: 1447
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:48 am

ewt340 wrote:
StudiodeKadent wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

While it's an awesome aircraft. It might be too small for them. A320neo would probably a better options. Besides, they could get to have A321neo in the mix. It's a better combo than A220.


I know Indonesia has a huge population, but the number of people willing/able to pay a modest premium for a better experience seems to be quite small in Indonesia, given how much LCC traffic they have. The A220 might be a 'right sizing' if anything. And the potential for an A220-500 is clearly there, too.


Well yeah that make sense. Except the fact that because the premium market is soo small. Garuda uses B737-800 for many international routes by stretching its range to its upper limit and fly them around Southeast Asia and Perth.

Now A321LR would come up to play. It's a lower risk investment that airlines like Garuda need. Citilink already operated A320neo. So it's not an extra money to operate one.
Secondly, they could focus on International flights from secondary cities like SUB and DPS. These would be a better opportunity for them rather than using widebody aircraft.

All destinations in Japan, South Korea, China, South Asia, Australia and some major destinations in the Middle east are reachable by A321LR.

Garuda is transferring (back) its ATR72s to Citilink and planning to do the same with its CRJ1000s anyway. So the 738 will be the airline's smallest aircraft type.
 
imthedreamliner
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:34 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:41 am

Cancelling an order even before preliminary investigations are published and a few days after grounded ? I am 100% sure Boeing contract will not let Garuda cancel the order under current circumstances. But I am sure Boeing will remember this act of Garuda in the next RFP. Doing business needs thrust in both ways. I know it will sound silly but if I were Boeing I would not quote for their RFP and let Airbus charge a huge price. Yes it is silly ...
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 1276
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:59 am

imthedreamliner wrote:
Cancelling an order even before preliminary investigations are published and a few days after grounded ? I am 100% sure Boeing contract will not let Garuda cancel the order under current circumstances. But I am sure Boeing will remember this act of Garuda in the next RFP. Doing business needs thrust in both ways. I know it will sound silly but if I were Boeing I would not quote for their RFP and let Airbus charge a huge price. Yes it is silly ...

I doubt Garuda is the actual owner of the aircraft. Many airlines will just do sale and leasebacks as well as operating leases. So if Garuda does not like the price offered, they can also turn to lessors for their requirements.
 
User avatar
afterburner
Posts: 1447
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:11 pm

flee wrote:
imthedreamliner wrote:
Cancelling an order even before preliminary investigations are published and a few days after grounded ? I am 100% sure Boeing contract will not let Garuda cancel the order under current circumstances. But I am sure Boeing will remember this act of Garuda in the next RFP. Doing business needs thrust in both ways. I know it will sound silly but if I were Boeing I would not quote for their RFP and let Airbus charge a huge price. Yes it is silly ...

I doubt Garuda is the actual owner of the aircraft. Many airlines will just do sale and leasebacks as well as operating leases. So if Garuda does not like the price offered, they can also turn to lessors for their requirements.

Garuda's CFO has said that the airline may convert the order to another model. The only other model that makes sense for Garuda is 787 as the 777 is too large for the airline.
 
Aviation737
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:53 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:49 pm

For those who think this is the end for Boeing with its race against Airbus.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/26/busi ... index.html
 
gia777
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:58 pm

GA needs 777x for hajj routes and they will need it for their F class, trust me, they will never get rid of F class no matter what.
GA needs 787 for all other long haul routes
GA needs A321 for medium long haul routes that low in passengers (such as CGK-HKG-TPE- etc)
GA needs A320NEO for a better fleet swap / transition / pilot training cost between citilink and GA
No more 737 for GA, people in indonesia will never fly with 737max after this. trust me. GA just stated it, " their customer are starting to worried)
Cheers,

GIA777 :coffee:
 
User avatar
afterburner
Posts: 1447
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:08 pm

gia777 wrote:
GA needs 777x for hajj routes and they will need it for their F class, trust me, they will never get rid of F class no matter what.

Yes, keep the F class if Garuda prefer prestige over profit. They can keep the high-density, 2-class 77Ws but get rid of the low-density, 3-class ones.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6593
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:10 pm

GA is getting the A330neo to replace their current 330 fleet.
The 777 is too big, so more 330neo or 787s to go for the longer legs... who knows, they might make CGK-LHR work with the 787 *cough*

The 737NG will eventually be replaced. 320NEO may replace the proposed Max (which is likely to be swapped for 787s or 77x)... 321NEO? Maybe... we'll see how that idea will go.

Currently the CASK for GA is up through the roof due to massively cut utility...

Interestingly, GA's original 777-200ER order was converted to 787 then to 777-300ERs with some NGs... and took about 15 years to start delivery... Won't be surprised if this Max cancellation becomes another one of those...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
gia777
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:49 am

mandala499 wrote:
GA is getting the A330neo to replace their current 330 fleet.
The 777 is too big, so more 330neo or 787s to go for the longer legs... who knows, they might make CGK-LHR work with the 787 *cough*

The 737NG will eventually be replaced. 320NEO may replace the proposed Max (which is likely to be swapped for 787s or 77x)... 321NEO? Maybe... we'll see how that idea will go.

Currently the CASK for GA is up through the roof due to massively cut utility...

Interestingly, GA's original 777-200ER order was converted to 787 then to 777-300ERs with some NGs... and took about 15 years to start delivery... Won't be surprised if this Max cancellation becomes another one of those...


GA has tons of 737NG, those 737NG pilots :) they all gonna have to start over from 0 once GA replaced them with A320, rip captain rank ?
So sad, I love 737max interior vs A320neo
Cheers,

GIA777 :coffee:
 
User avatar
afterburner
Posts: 1447
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:33 am

gia777 wrote:
GA has tons of 737NG, those 737NG pilots :) they all gonna have to start over from 0 once GA replaced them with A320, rip captain rank ?

No. They'll need to be trained to get the A320 rating but the captains retain their captaincy status.
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:36 am

Aviation737 wrote:
For those who think this is the end for Boeing with its race against Airbus.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/26/busi ... index.html

I don't think anyone here in Anet has dismissed Boeing due to Max issue. What most of us suggested is "Boeing, get your sh*t together before things get any worse. If not you will lost NB to Airbus for good." Boeing can considered themselves lucky that Sukhoi, COMAC, Bombardier doesn't have a comprehensive product lineup and aggressive production line. If they do, Boeing is done for, at least in NB market.

Anyhow, the articles shared reeks bias. Read with pinch of salt.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
mandala499
Posts: 6593
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:12 am

gia777 wrote:
GA has tons of 737NG, those 737NG pilots :) they all gonna have to start over from 0 once GA replaced them with A320, rip captain rank ?
So sad, I love 737max interior vs A320neo

1. A lot of the 737NG, CRJ and ATR captains spent a few thousand hours on the A330 as first officers as their 2nd or 3rd type prior to their captaincy on their current type.
2. You can go into the aircraft type as a first officer and then upgrade to captain on the type or another type. So, one can go into their captaincy first prior to converting to the 320, or go to the 320 first for familiarization prior to upgrading to captaincy. There's no need to start from zero again when moving aircraft types.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
ewt340
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:25 am

gia777 wrote:
mandala499 wrote:
GA is getting the A330neo to replace their current 330 fleet.
The 777 is too big, so more 330neo or 787s to go for the longer legs... who knows, they might make CGK-LHR work with the 787 *cough*

The 737NG will eventually be replaced. 320NEO may replace the proposed Max (which is likely to be swapped for 787s or 77x)... 321NEO? Maybe... we'll see how that idea will go.

Currently the CASK for GA is up through the roof due to massively cut utility...

Interestingly, GA's original 777-200ER order was converted to 787 then to 777-300ERs with some NGs... and took about 15 years to start delivery... Won't be surprised if this Max cancellation becomes another one of those...


GA has tons of 737NG, those 737NG pilots :) they all gonna have to start over from 0 once GA replaced them with A320, rip captain rank ?
So sad, I love 737max interior vs A320neo


They also have lots of Citilink Pilots who are trained for A320neo. This would actually help GA reduce cost for training if they went all Airbus. They could also help them interchange with Citilink.

Transition from A320neo to A330neo would be way easier.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24422
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:02 pm

Change of heart. Will keep 737MAX, and even add a 787 order also..


Flag carrier Garuda Indonesia will swap its orders for Boeing's embattled 737 Max 8s with other aircraft made by the U.S. company.
Garuda informed Boeing of its desire to cancel its orders for 49 of the planes last month. Both companies had been in negotiations on whether to outright cancel, or to replace the order with other Boeing aircraft.
"We will replace the orders with Boeing's Max 10s and 787s," Garuda President Ari Ashkara told the Nikkei Asian Review on Wednesday. He said the value of the new deal will be roughly the same as the Max 8 orders, adding that the airline "believes in Boeing aircraft and its technological capabilities."
Ashkara said further details will be announced later.


Story:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Busine ... ing-planes

=

Think they just learned one cant just walk away from an order easily...
Last edited by LAXintl on Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:08 pm

This thread title is incorrect then. They are still taking the 737-10.
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:34 pm

Good to see 787 in GA colour. So now they have both A330neo and 787 fleet soon. Just doesn't make sense for their network, tbh.

In future Garuda Group will have following:

A320ceo/neo (NEO for replacement)
A330ceo/neo (NEO for replacement)
ATR 72-500
CRJ-1000
B737-800NG
B737-8max (To be sold?)
B737-10max
B777-300ER
B787

Perhaps they can replace Sriwijaya Air and NAM Air current B733, B735 and B737-NG fleet with GA's B737-10max order.

GA continue to use their B737NG to ground since they are quite young anyway.

QG's A320neo order stays, roll over the A320ceo on one-by-one basis. Eliminate B735 fleet (have they?)

Eliminate B77W fleet with B787-9/10 for high trunk routes?

Keep ATR 72-500 and A330neo.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:42 pm

Well well. I am sure Boeing played with pricing a bit, but simply walking away from the order would have been costly for GA.

Funny how the GA president made the statement "believes in Boeing aircraft and its technological capabilities.".
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
TheEuphorian
Posts: 418
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 am

Re: Official: Garuda cancels remaining 737MAX orders

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:42 am

juliuswong wrote:

Perhaps they can replace Sriwijaya Air and NAM Air current B733, B735 and B737-NG fleet with GA's B737-10max order.

.

A220 is better for NAM Air, mainly because of their size.
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2970
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:20 am

I figured it was all for negotiation as a stated in the first few replies of this thread. Makes sense, I think the 787-9 is the perfect long haul aircraft for them. 77W seems too big.
 
User avatar
bgm
Posts: 2430
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:24 am

Boeing must’ve given them a really, really good deal.
If you hate wearing a mask, you’re really going to hate using a ventilator.
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1762
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:26 am

Will be interesting to see where they send the A330NEOs vs the 787s.
@DadCelo
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:31 am

One thing I suspect with switch to MAX-10 is further slip in delivery schedule. This buys GA more time from their original MAX order pushback.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
marcogr12
Posts: 410
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:56 am

Ιsn't it too big a gap from CRJ-1000s to 737-10MAX capacity wise if they ditch the 737-8s? I mean how long will they be able to hold on to the 738NGs?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
N809FR
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:10 am

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:10 am

marcogr12 wrote:
Ιsn't it too big a gap from CRJ-1000s to 737-10MAX capacity wise if they ditch the 737-8s? I mean how long will they be able to hold on to the 738NGs?


More likely than not depends whether they follow a realistic replacement schedule (20-ish years) or follow in the footsteps of neighboring SQ and keep frames for 12 years. For an airline with generally poor financial results it makes a lot more sense to hold onto assets that have been amortized versus the current trend of replacing perfectly capable aircraft.

Also, to those saying Boeing must have given them a hell of deal, it’s not like Boeing is hurting for 787 orders. I imagine for a carrier of little importance like GA they probably got a decent deal, but more likely realized they couldn’t walk away from the MAX order without incurring significant penalties.
 
VV
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:24 am

This is confusing for me.

Is Garuda keeping its 737 MAX order or are they going to cancel it?
 
N809FR
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:10 am

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:27 am

VV wrote:
This is confusing for me.

Is Garuda keeping its 737 MAX order or are they going to cancel it?


Converting MAX 8 to MAX 10 with some 787’s. Knee jerk reactionary statements are usually followed with eating some crow, and that appears to be exactly what happened. GA more likely than not is just rearranging their orders to make more long term financial sense.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:53 am

I wish there was a numbers breakdown in this, but I have a feeling that Garuda got a sweeeeeeeet deal to stay
I am me and no one else
 
VV
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:55 am

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I wish there was a numbers breakdown in this, but I have a feeling that Garuda got a sweeeeeeeet deal to stay


Why?
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 1276
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:47 am

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I wish there was a numbers breakdown in this, but I have a feeling that Garuda got a sweeeeeeeet deal to stay

Perhaps a news release will take place, maybe at the Paris Air Show. Boeing needs some good news at the show.
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:26 pm

flee wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I wish there was a numbers breakdown in this, but I have a feeling that Garuda got a sweeeeeeeet deal to stay

Perhaps a news release will take place, maybe at the Paris Air Show. Boeing needs some good news at the show.

Yes, but the best news for Boeing would be if the new (software) features for the MAX were certified and the aircraft cleared for flying before the show. New/reconfirmed orders at the show would be an additional bonus... For GA, the revised deal may include a buyback of the single MAX-8, as well as the 77W GA now operates but is possibly too large. So 10x 787-9 and around 30-35 737MAX-10 (or whatever the thing may be called by then) is my guess.
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
JibberJim
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:35 pm

frigatebird wrote:
So 10x 787-9 and around 30-35 737MAX-10 (or whatever the thing may be called by then) is my guess.


The quote said it would cost roughly the same as 49 max 8, so if the order is that big then it's a massive discount? Isn't 8 and 10 a more reasonable ballpark?
 
Antarius
Posts: 2110
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Garuda may cancel remaining orders of 737 MAX

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:55 pm

Interested wrote:
If every airline cancelled their orders it would save a hell of a lot of time and head scratching trying to make these planes safe

Why worry about a plane nobody wants to buy anyway?


This aged well.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
ewt340
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:29 am

Damn, they got a really big discount! They might cancel their A330neo if Boeing keep giving such low prices.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4086
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:37 am

They cancelled Max 8 because of those crash but ordered the Max 10 instead.... Was there no such system on Max 10?
Nya! Nya! Nya! Nya!
Nya! Nya! Nya! Nya!
Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10452
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Updated: Garuda to keep 737MAX order, add 787s in agreement with Boeing

Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:05 am

c933103 wrote:
They cancelled Max 8 because of those crash but ordered the Max 10 instead.... Was there no such system on Max 10?

The crash was really just an excuse, Garuda didn’t really want/need the Max 8 anymore. Pre crash they had already significantly deferred their Max’s by ~3+ years (that is why they were only operating 1).

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos