kimimm19
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FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:14 pm

According to fliegerfaust:

Airbus will shortly be announcing the launch of the A220-500 with the help of a launch customer...

https://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status ... 9756250112
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title was misleading
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:16 pm

I wouldn't see the point to launch an A220-500 now.

Wasn't this website that "predicted" the Bombardier CRJ program buying by Airbus?
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chrisa330
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:17 pm

That’s not what was said or intended by that tweet.

He wants them to, but he’s not indicating they are.
 
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:19 pm

Hash tagging it with #ET302. Classy.

V/F
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:26 pm

Unless he is talking about C series/A220 production take everything Sylvian Faust says with bags upon bags of salt.

As noted he is wishing/hoping Airbus will announce a A220-500 soon. Airbus won’t. They are at the very least going to wait until they get A220 costs under control first, and likely wait until they actually have full ownership of the program.
 
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:16 pm

Paris Air Show is coming up in 3 months. Just saying...
 
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:56 pm

They are building about 30-40 A220's a year. Presumably production will increase when they open the US assembly operations. But with the current backlog, and even with the US assemblies, it will take them years just to clear up even the existing orders. And, most likely there will be follow-up orders from SWISS/Lufthansa, Delta and AC for the 100's and 300's to increase the backlog even further. Unless they are going to increase production levels significantly in upcoming years, it makes no sense to add even further to the backlog by introducing the 500.
 
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:57 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Hash tagging it with #ET302. Classy.

V/F


Leaves a bad taste in the mouth, doesn't it?
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:58 pm

The A319NEO & 737-7 proved unpopular. The A320 is way bigger, more capable & sold out for 7-8 years. Why not?
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:22 pm

keesje wrote:
The A319NEO & 737-7 proved unpopular. The A320 is way bigger, more capable & sold out for 7-8 years. Why not?


I don't think anyone here is arguing against the business case for the A225. I think we're all just a bit doubtful that Airbus would do it right now.
And we know that Mr Faust is historically psycho.
 
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:28 pm

keesje wrote:
The A319NEO & 737-7 proved unpopular. The A320 is way bigger, more capable & sold out for 7-8 years. Why not?


Theres a difference between a shrink and a stretch.
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:44 pm

It often amazes me to see that there is a big group of anet members who suffer from a sort of collective OCD when it comes to the A220/A320. Like the A220-500 will inevitably have to bury the A319 or something.

The A220-500 and A319/A320 can coexist, the A319 does not have to be retired and will not be a complete replacement in 100% of cases.

Even if there is an overlap in capacity you can easily have an airline flying mainly the smaller A220s but want something bigger and so they go for the -500 to achieve commonality. Similarly, you can have a large A320/A321 operator who wants a sub-fleet of smaller aircraft and so they can go for the A319 for commonality.

The A320 series is sold out for several years anyway, they can work together.
Last edited by afgeneral on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:45 pm

Isn't the A225 at the capacity range of the A320neo? AKA what's the point of it? I mean I'd love to see it but hey it is fliegerfaust
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:52 pm

OA940 wrote:
Isn't the A225 at the capacity range of the A320neo? AKA what's the point of it? I mean I'd love to see it but hey it is fliegerfaust


The A320NEO has greater range. The A225 could in theory fill the shoes of routes that were that of the MD-80/737-300 category that was never filled after they were retired and be cheaper to use on those segments than say an A320NEO.
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:01 pm

OA940 wrote:
Isn't the A225 at the capacity range of the A320neo? AKA what's the point of it? I mean I'd love to see it but hey it is fliegerfaust


The article is also from 2017 and doesn't talk about it. He also #ET302 into the story.
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:55 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Hash tagging it with #ET302. Classy.

V/F


Disgusting.
 
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:08 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
I wouldn't see the point to launch an A220-500 now.

Wasn't this website that "predicted" the Bombardier CRJ program buying by Airbus?

They web site has predicted 8 of the last 4 A220 sales. ;)

It is an enthusiast's personal site.

I won't comment on the hashtag. Some things are just so wrong people need the silent treatment

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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:23 pm

deltaflyertoo wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Isn't the A225 at the capacity range of the A320neo? AKA what's the point of it? I mean I'd love to see it but hey it is fliegerfaust


The A320NEO has greater range. The A225 could in theory fill the shoes of routes that were that of the MD-80/737-300 category that was never filled after they were retired and be cheaper to use on those segments than say an A320NEO.


Isn't it kinda a waste of money tho? Unless there's an airline that specifically flies the exact length of flights that make the 225 better than the neo than it really doesn't seem worth it for me, unless Airbus plan to discuntinue the neo and replace it with the previously referred A320neoplus or whatever and really optimize capacity for specific airlines, which I'm not entirely convinced they will. Also I doubt the neo is causing problems when it comes to economics on its flights. I guess only time will tell

jworks158 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Isn't the A225 at the capacity range of the A320neo? AKA what's the point of it? I mean I'd love to see it but hey it is fliegerfaust


The article is also from 2017 and doesn't talk about it. He also #ET302 into the story.


Oh. Oh. Ah FliegerFaust you never cease to amaze.
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:41 pm

It would be nice if posters and moderators recognized standards of evidence. Some joker's Twitter account doesn't cut it. Everybody knows FliegerFaust is a 'character.'
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:16 pm

For sure a220-500 is going to happen, but Bombardier still has part of a220 so getting new model means that Bombardier is getting part of cake. I’m probably wrong because Bombardier nearly went belly up on a220 but this might be perfect time because of Boeing minor problems with 737max.
 
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:28 pm

keesje wrote:
The A319NEO & 737-7 proved unpopular. The A320 is way bigger, more capable & sold out for 7-8 years. Why not?


The more curiouser question would be why Airbus bothered to certify both NEO versions of the A319.
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:34 pm

If an A225 existed and could carry 186 passengers, fly 3700NM, be able to carry pallets and containers and have full commonality with 10.000 A320s, it could replace it. But it seems not the case.

If Airbus wants to produce 10-20 A220s a month, on FAL's, over the next 20 years, as seems to be the case, an A220-500 seems inevitable. Good reason to delay development seem hard to come up with.
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:46 pm

keesje wrote:
The A319NEO & 737-7 proved unpopular. The A320 is way bigger, more capable & sold out for 7-8 years. Why not?

Airbus still haven't sorted out all the cost cutting and such they want to achieve with the A225 nor the increased production capacity yet iirc? I doubt they would launch a new variant at the minimum before achieving both
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:00 am

c933103 wrote:
keesje wrote:
The A319NEO & 737-7 proved unpopular. The A320 is way bigger, more capable & sold out for 7-8 years. Why not?

Airbus still haven't sorted out all the cost cutting and such they want to achieve with the A225 nor the increased production capacity yet iirc? I doubt they would launch a new variant at the minimum before achieving both


I think economies of scale is a proven way forward to reduce cost per unit and renegotiate supply chain costs. The stronger portfolio would ensure a bigger share of the market.
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:18 am

OA940 wrote:
Isn't the A225 at the capacity range of the A320neo? AKA what's the point of it? I mean I'd love to see it but hey it is fliegerfaust


The A225 doesn’t work in namesake. Too close to the AN225 :spin:
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:34 am

texl1649 wrote:
The more curiouser question would be why Airbus bothered to certify both NEO versions of the A319.

Doesn't cost much, since the whole family's getting similar treatment, and I'm betting the bulk of their ACJ sales will be that model.
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:06 am

kimimm19 wrote:
According to fliegerfaust:

Airbus will shortly be announcing the launch of the A220-500 with the help of a launch customer...

https://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status ... 9756250112

Another thread based on nothing but pure speculation. Brilliant!
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:17 am

Well since Boeing is hands to wall with the 737Max and the backlog of the A320NEO is enormous a third model would help to fill the demand. Also it might force Boeing to come up earlier with a modern 737 successor.
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:08 am

columba wrote:
Well since Boeing is hands to wall with the 737Max and the backlog of the A320NEO is enormous a third model would help to fill the demand. Also it might force Boeing to come up earlier with a modern 737 successor.


Indeed, an A220-500 right now would be just perfect in the light of the 737MAX groudings, and airlines looking to offload that type.
I wonder how quickly they could get it in service?
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:30 am

VSMUT wrote:
columba wrote:
Well since Boeing is hands to wall with the 737Max and the backlog of the A320NEO is enormous a third model would help to fill the demand. Also it might force Boeing to come up earlier with a modern 737 successor.


Indeed, an A220-500 right now would be just perfect in the light of the 737MAX groudings, and airlines looking to offload that type.
I wonder how quickly they could get it in service?


Apart from the disgusting reference, 737MAX grounding should not take more than a few months at worst. And it should not tarnish its reputation too much going forward (#787 grounding).
How long to you think it will take for EIS of A220-500? That will be years, not months.

I'm sure a stretched A220 is only matter of time. But 737MAX grounding issues are not part of that business equation.
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:38 am

PW100 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
columba wrote:
Well since Boeing is hands to wall with the 737Max and the backlog of the A320NEO is enormous a third model would help to fill the demand. Also it might force Boeing to come up earlier with a modern 737 successor.


Indeed, an A220-500 right now would be just perfect in the light of the 737MAX groudings, and airlines looking to offload that type.
I wonder how quickly they could get it in service?


Apart from the disgusting reference, 737MAX grounding should not take more than a few months at worst. And it should not tarnish its reputation too much going forward (#787 grounding).
How long to you think it will take for EIS of A220-500? That will be years, not months.

I'm sure a stretched A220 is only matter of time. But 737MAX grounding issues are not part of that business equation.


Its only a stretch, and we dont know how much work was already done. And just 2 major 737MAX-8 customers jumping ship would be enough for a nice launch.
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:27 am

An A220-500 would be a very skinny aircraft.

There is a small chance the empty weight could increases by a large percentage like the 757-300 which would kill the econimics. It would be a stretch too far.


However the stretch will most likely be similar to going from the 787-9 to the 787-10 where the percentage increase is low. The A220-500 would capture a large percentage of the market.

The bulk of narrowbody routes are under 1000nm so a very big market. If the commonality is very high with the A220-300 then it could justify bringing in both types. An airline might be considering ordering the A220-300 for thin routes, the A220-500 for some shorter thick routes would seal the deal as a combo.

The A220-500 would make the family strong like the 787 family with three members that cover unique roles. The A350-900 is superior to any singular member of the 787 family but family vs family the 787 wins hands down and is more versatile. It is this family strength that would make the A220 a game changer.

It would be nesr impossible for the 737MAX to compete with both the A220-500 and A321. Aircraft designs are a compromise, even a cleansheet NSA design would struggle to match the econimics of the A220-500 on short haul while still being capable of flying as far as the A321LR.
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:18 am

Maybe the most stupid current thread here.

Airbus execs have said the A220 is too expensive to build. The production line capabilities do not exist. Talk of capitalizing on the MAX crashes is distasteful at the very least. Even if the business case was there, it’s not like the model will be seen for a couple of years at best. This is beyond even fanboy fantasy. It is delusional. Visions of 4,000 A22X dance in their heads. :roll:
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:02 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
An A220-500 would be a very skinny aircraft.

There is a small chance the empty weight could increases by a large percentage like the 757-300 which would kill the econimics. It would be a stretch too far.


However the stretch will most likely be similar to going from the 787-9 to the 787-10 where the percentage increase is low. The A220-500 would capture a large percentage of the market.

The bulk of narrowbody routes are under 1000nm so a very big market. If the commonality is very high with the A220-300 then it could justify bringing in both types. An airline might be considering ordering the A220-300 for thin routes, the A220-500 for some shorter thick routes would seal the deal as a combo.

The A220-500 would make the family strong like the 787 family with three members that cover unique roles. The A350-900 is superior to any singular member of the 787 family but family vs family the 787 wins hands down and is more versatile. It is this family strength that would make the A220 a game changer.

It would be nesr impossible for the 737MAX to compete with both the A220-500 and A321. Aircraft designs are a compromise, even a cleansheet NSA design would struggle to match the econimics of the A220-500 on short haul while still being capable of flying as far as the A321LR.

Except 753 didn't have its economy killed?
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:40 pm

“It’s very likely that… once the A220 has done the ramp up, is economically viable [and] then we can further invest, that this is going to happen, Once this success is on track, it would be time for looking at what we do for the product.” – Airbus president of commercial aircraft Guillaume Faury

https://simpleflying.com/airbus-larger-a220/

Maybe a case of not, but when?

Remember the A320 family is over 30 years old, the Boeing 737 family over 50. Yes both designs have been updated but they are still relying on old tech. A Airbus A220-500(or whatever they decide to call it) is new technology - and will allow it to stay in a market segment as it develops a larger and newer aircraft.
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:43 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Maybe the most stupid current thread here.

Airbus execs have said the A220 is too expensive to build. The production line capabilities do not exist. Talk of capitalizing on the MAX crashes is distasteful at the very least. Even if the business case was there, it’s not like the model will be seen for a couple of years at best. This is beyond even fanboy fantasy. It is delusional. Visions of 4,000 A22X dance in their heads. :roll:


"Distasteful at the least"? So that's how you attempt to block out discussion of how the MAX problems might benefit the A220? This is business, guy. We pay our respects and then move on.
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:52 pm

PW100 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
columba wrote:
Well since Boeing is hands to wall with the 737Max and the backlog of the A320NEO is enormous a third model would help to fill the demand. Also it might force Boeing to come up earlier with a modern 737 successor.


Indeed, an A220-500 right now would be just perfect in the light of the 737MAX groudings, and airlines looking to offload that type.
I wonder how quickly they could get it in service?


Apart from the disgusting reference, 737MAX grounding should not take more than a few months at worst. And it should not tarnish its reputation too much going forward (#787 grounding).
How long to you think it will take for EIS of A220-500? That will be years, not months.

I'm sure a stretched A220 is only matter of time. But 737MAX grounding issues are not part of that business equation.


The only thing to keep in mind with the 787 versus the 737 grounding, is the lack of casualties in the former. I don''t wish further ill-will on the MAX program, I just hope that the final remedy is not rushed.

As far as the A220/C Series, I believe we will see an eventual third model. Long term, the replacement version of the 320, I believe, will be larger to accommodate a full range of products from the A220-100 onwards. A little different from the VFW614 versus Fokker F28 days...
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:24 pm

PW100 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
columba wrote:
Well since Boeing is hands to wall with the 737Max and the backlog of the A320NEO is enormous a third model would help to fill the demand. Also it might force Boeing to come up earlier with a modern 737 successor.


Indeed, an A220-500 right now would be just perfect in the light of the 737MAX groudings, and airlines looking to offload that type.
I wonder how quickly they could get it in service?


Apart from the disgusting reference, 737MAX grounding should not take more than a few months at worst. And it should not tarnish its reputation too much going forward (#787 grounding).
How long to you think it will take for EIS of A220-500? That will be years, not months.

I'm sure a stretched A220 is only matter of time. But 737MAX grounding issues are not part of that business equation.


Grounding might not take long, but it will be very hard to for Boeing to restore faith in the 737Max. Several airlines might switch to Airbus because of that and the A220 and A320 both are good alternatives for the 737 (the A220 being smaller but having its advantages being the newest narrowbody on the market).

Don´t get me wrong I don´t want to turn this into an A vs. B debate - and honestly I am more of a Boeing fan boy than an Airbusfan (the other day I chose Norwegian over of Easyjet just to fly with 737) - but I fear that Boeing won´t recover as quickly from this than they did with the 787 battery fires.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:06 pm

spinotter wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Maybe the most stupid current thread here.

Airbus execs have said the A220 is too expensive to build. The production line capabilities do not exist. Talk of capitalizing on the MAX crashes is distasteful at the very least. Even if the business case was there, it’s not like the model will be seen for a couple of years at best. This is beyond even fanboy fantasy. It is delusional. Visions of 4,000 A22X dance in their heads. :roll:


"Distasteful at the least"? So that's how you attempt to block out discussion of how the MAX problems might benefit the A220? This is business, guy. We pay our respects and then move on.

Funny. I am not trying to block anything out. How is that even possible? Yes indeed it is business. Airbus has said the A220 is too expensive to build. They also have no capacity to build enough to compete volumetrically with the MAX. By the time this theoretical window of opportunity from these twin tragedies has closed, Airbus will still not be in a position to challenge the MAX with an A220-500. So yes, it is fantasy, guy.

And as to your other point, I thought it was only us Americans who were so wildly in pursuit of profits as some of our non-US posters often claim. Nice to see Europeans are just as cynically money grubbing. I will remember that next time I see some sniffy condescending post here.
 
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:17 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
I wouldn't see the point to launch an A220-500 now.

Wasn't this website that "predicted" the Bombardier CRJ program buying by Airbus?


Commonality. Sits between the 319 and 320. Some original seat maps on the CS100/300 showed 16x80 for the CS100 and 16x100 for the CS300. This would probably be a 16x120 equivalent that the airlines would shove 130-150 into depending on how much they hate us.
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:47 pm

DL717 wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
I wouldn't see the point to launch an A220-500 now.

Wasn't this website that "predicted" the Bombardier CRJ program buying by Airbus?


Commonality. Sits between the 319 and 320. Some original seat maps on the CS100/300 showed 16x80 for the CS100 and 16x100 for the CS300. This would probably be a 16x120 equivalent that the airlines would shove 130-150 into depending on how much they hate us.


The key word was "now", production capability needs to be enhanced first. It will takes at least 2 years
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:06 pm

[list=][/list]
keesje wrote:
The A319NEO & 737-7 proved unpopular. The A320 is way bigger, more capable & sold out for 7-8 years. Why not?


Because an A220-500 would be in the A320neo’s range. The A220-300 is basically an A319neo killer:
 
JoergAtADN
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Re: Cost cutting is a reason to launch th A220-500!

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:29 pm

c933103 wrote:
Airbus still haven't sorted out all the cost cutting and such they want to achieve with the A225 nor the increased production capacity yet iirc? I doubt they would launch a new variant at the minimum before achieving both


Significiant cost cutting is only possible by new contracts with the suppliers. But why should a supplier accept lower prices, if they have a contract for high prices. But there are not contracts for the A220-500 yet, this will offer Airbus the chance of new negotiation - either a supplier offers better prices at higher volume, or they will design them out.
 
afgeneral
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:57 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
[list=][/list]
keesje wrote:
The A319NEO & 737-7 proved unpopular. The A320 is way bigger, more capable & sold out for 7-8 years. Why not?


Because an A220-500 would be in the A320neo’s range. The A220-300 is basically an A319neo killer:


The whole "kllling" thing is childish. There are many more factors in play such as commonality, production capacity and range. The A220-500 does not have to be born to blow the A320NEO to pieces like in a cheap movie. They can co-exist in Airbus' catalogue quite nicely.
 
musman9853
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:28 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
An A220-500 would be a very skinny aircraft.

There is a small chance the empty weight could increases by a large percentage like the 757-300 which would kill the econimics. It would be a stretch too far.


However the stretch will most likely be similar to going from the 787-9 to the 787-10 where the percentage increase is low. The A220-500 would capture a large percentage of the market.

The bulk of narrowbody routes are under 1000nm so a very big market. If the commonality is very high with the A220-300 then it could justify bringing in both types. An airline might be considering ordering the A220-300 for thin routes, the A220-500 for some shorter thick routes would seal the deal as a combo.

The A220-500 would make the family strong like the 787 family with three members that cover unique roles. The A350-900 is superior to any singular member of the 787 family but family vs family the 787 wins hands down and is more versatile. It is this family strength that would make the A220 a game changer.

It would be nesr impossible for the 737MAX to compete with both the A220-500 and A321. Aircraft designs are a compromise, even a cleansheet NSA design would struggle to match the econimics of the A220-500 on short haul while still being capable of flying as far as the A321LR.


While you're right, isn't that what the 797 is for? Fills in the upper part of the narrowbody market so the NSA can tackle the lower end?
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ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Cost cutting is a reason to launch th A220-500!

Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:28 am

JoergAtADN wrote:
Significiant cost cutting is only possible by new contracts with the suppliers. But why should a supplier accept lower prices, if they have a contract for high prices. But there are not contracts for the A220-500 yet, this will offer Airbus the chance of new negotiation - either a supplier offers better prices at higher volume, or they will design them out.

Exactly!

If current suppliers don't decrease their prices, no points of ramping up the A220-100/300 production agressively, nor market it agressively.

Better plan for a A220-500 with new suppliers (and some current ones willing to re-negotiate) and launch the program when the business case warrants it.

Such A225s could even sell for less than A223s. (Even more incentives to settle with Airbus or be stuck with decreasing CS100/300 productions)
 
VV
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:25 am

Don't they need to increase their production rate first?
 
Orlik
Posts: 34
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:32 am

There are many many assumptions I found generally wrong in regards to production cost and contracts mentioned here.
In the case of take-over of CS series by Airbus we have to see possible changes in complex, so:
- supplier contracts
- production increase
- FAL capacity addition + optimizing their structure to higher output
- last not least learning curve and production changes induced by production rate increase and portfolio changes
- less program risk due to "heavyweight" partner

These measures are not prepared separately, but in steps, aiming certain time thresholds. In this case, changed conditions allow AB to renegotiate current contracts due to quantity. Increased rates enable suppliers to decrease their production cost as well and AB will definitely share this. My experience from automotive tells, that final assemblers renegotiate contracts regularly mirroring technology progress and production line fine tuning. AB knows rough production cost per unit due to longtime experience and competitive offers from its suppliers. Lets imagine the threefold increase of production in the year 2023, then suppliers can give definitely better conditions. They can save a lot by overhead cost, less R&D cost per unit, and discounts from their subsuppliers throughout the whole supply chain.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 212
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Re: FliegerFaust: Waiting for Airbus to announce the A220-500 with a nice launch customer order

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:52 pm

I wonder how much a larger A220 would cost to build. The A320neo is a high production rate plane with a well established supply chain. Airlines purchase prices are based on capability of the airplane to generate profit. Planes with less payload sell for less money. The A220 has to be cheaper to build than the A320neo, otherwise there is no business case. I wonder if that is true.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Apparent launch of A220-500 with launch customer

Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:44 pm

lightsaber wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
I wouldn't see the point to launch an A220-500 now.

Wasn't this website that "predicted" the Bombardier CRJ program buying by Airbus?

They web site has predicted 8 of the last 4 A220 sales. ;)

It is an enthusiast's personal site.

I won't comment on the hashtag. Some things are just so wrong people need the silent treatment

Lightsaber


:checkmark:

Couldn't agree more. It seems he just wants the new A220/500 to kill the Boeing MAX. Oh dear. :banghead:

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