Page 1 of 1

Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:35 pm
by xwb777
Saudia, the national airline of KSA, is weighing options for a new wide body order. The airline is currently evaluating either to order the A350 or grow its B787 fleet with a top up order. The airline has stated that it does not intent to order the upgraded version of the B777, the B777X. According to the airline's CEO, Jaan Albrecht, the airline has enough of the B777 size and capacity in its fleet with 35 B777s are currently inn operation. An order for a medium sized aircraft such as the A350 or the B787 would be the right size.

Saudia has taken delivery of 82 aircraft within the last 2 years and will be taking 42 new aircraft this year, including the first 3 B787-10. The airline's A320NEO order will be converted to the A321NEO with 15 being converted to the A321LRs, enabling the airline to reach new points in Europe such as Malaga and Amsterdam. It will also enable the airline to ad frequencies to existing destinations such as FRA and VIE which will be daily A321 services.

The airline is exploring new destinations in the United States and code-sharing with Delta. Atlanta and Detroit were mentioned by the CEO.


Source: http://m.atwonline.com/airframes/saudi- ... body-order

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:19 pm
by behramjee
This is Boeing’s order to lose if they don’t end up ordering more B789s. There is no need to order the A350 and add an extra fleet type into the mix thus causing more inefficiency.

In USA the only new route SV should consider is IAH and not ATL/DTW. At least IAH will have decent p2p demand plus at high yields due to the oil traffic. But for IAH, the B789 can’t make it so it has to be a B77W only.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:23 pm
by TC957
Why do you think a 789 can't make JED/RUH - IAH whereas a 77W can ?

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:23 pm
by fcogafa
xwb777 wrote:
The airline has stated that it does not intent to order the upgraded version of the B777, the B777X. According to the airline's CEO, Jaan Albrecht, the airline has enough of the B777 size


Interesting as an unknown order for 10 B779 was thought to be for SVA

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:42 pm
by junlinwong94
lol personally I feel that the A350 is just probably used as a negotiation tactic for Saudia just to get discounts on the 787s

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:52 pm
by OA940
I wish they'd order the A350 but it's probably indeed a tactic to get discounts on the 787s. Even though one has to wonder if they may need an aircraft with more capacity than the 789 and more range than the 78J for future routes, or to replace the 777-200ERs eventually

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:56 pm
by soups
SV can do very well in western africa with destinations such as KAD, ACC, NIM, LOS, BKO.
They currently only fly to Kano with a 747.

Cargo operates into LOS and ACC

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:38 am
by behramjee
TC957 wrote:
Why do you think a 789 can't make JED/RUH - IAH whereas a 77W can ?


RUH-IAH is 16:30 block which a B789 cannot perform with a full payload out of KSA KWI DOH BAH and UAE to anywhere westbound.

FYI Etihad operates with a very small payload penalty AUH-IAD which is a shorter route.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:44 am
by behramjee
soups wrote:
SV can do very well in western africa with destinations such as KAD, ACC, NIM, LOS, BKO.
They currently only fly to Kano with a 747.

Cargo operates into LOS and ACC


Demand from ACC to JED is vvv small hence the only way it can perhaps work is if it is linked up with LOS or ABV.

JED LOS can be easily flown with a normal A321NEO. Majority of the Muslim’s in Nigeria live in the northern areas and treat ABV as their gateway hub. But LOS too has enough of them residing there that can warrant a 4 weekly A321Neo service as it would also feed DXB India KUL CAN BEY flights.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:55 am
by gatibosgru
Def not expecting any A350s

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:58 am
by LAX772LR
behramjee wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Why do you think a 789 can't make JED/RUH - IAH whereas a 77W can ?

RUH-IAH is 16:30 block which a B789 cannot perform with a full payload out of KSA KWI DOH BAH and UAE to anywhere westbound.

Sure, but it's not like a 77W could either... so that doesn't really answer the question posed.

Heck, EK took a 50seat hit when it initially switched DXB-LAX to a 77W. Still was having to go out with up to 30seats blocked some days, after going to 351T.

This also doesn't take into account a proposed 2.5T hike for the 789 as well.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:38 am
by TC957
JED/RUH-IAH is about 500 miles less than SFO-SIN and way less than PER-LHR so I don't understand the issues a 789 would have.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:15 am
by LH658
IAH would get a lot of Middle East/Africa/South Asia/South East traffic though, F & J class, I think those businessmen would want to go where the booze is. LH, EK, KL, BA, AF, and etc.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:12 am
by HKA
Can someone explain why Saudia doesn't fly non-stop from Dammam to London. I mean Gulf Air flies daily from Bahrain to London. BA, I believe also fly daily from Bahrain to London. I know these flights take up the load since Bahrain and DMM are very close. But one has to drive though the causeway and all the hassle..

I am sure Saudia will do very well on DMM-London (LHR or LGW) route

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:00 am
by Armodeen
Saudia will order what they are told to order by the government. They really need to keep the US on side after all their trifles recently, so it’s fsirly clear where the order will go, IMO.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:21 am
by malioil
HKA wrote:
Can someone explain why Saudia doesn't fly non-stop from Dammam to London. I mean Gulf Air flies daily from Bahrain to London. BA, I believe also fly daily from Bahrain to London. I know these flights take up the load since Bahrain and DMM are very close. But one has to drive though the causeway and all the hassle..

I am sure Saudia will do very well on DMM-London (LHR or LGW) route


Indeed, GF has a double daily and BA the venerable 124/125 service.

BMI used to do a non-stop from DMM (or was it a tag-on from RUH)? Eitherway, surly if it was worth a direct as opposed to feeding through RUH/JED, SV would have launched the route ?

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:23 am
by sibibom
TC957 wrote:
JED/RUH-IAH is about 500 miles less than SFO-SIN and way less than PER-LHR so I don't understand the issues a 789 would have.


Perhaps operating out of 50C JED/RUH in the summer.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:26 am
by SeanM1997
HKA wrote:
Can someone explain why Saudia doesn't fly non-stop from Dammam to London. I mean Gulf Air flies daily from Bahrain to London. BA, I believe also fly daily from Bahrain to London. I know these flights take up the load since Bahrain and DMM are very close. But one has to drive though the causeway and all the hassle..

I am sure Saudia will do very well on DMM-London (LHR or LGW) route


Probably slots. They only have a daily JED and daily RUH to London Heathrow, and would probably want to stay at LHR to only serve one London airport, thus not spreading operations. I think Dammam would be profitable, however, they would probably look to increase JED first before launching DMM. Saudia would be better to increase JED at MAN, and launch RUY and DMM there - as they codeshare with DL/VS/AF/KL. As Manchester is a growing hub, especially with Flybe becoming VS, they would be able to get feed there. Would help to link UK regions with Saudi Arabia, but also Saudi Arabia could codeshare onto US bound flights from MAN - VS operates New York, Atlanta, Boston, Las Vegas, Orlando and Los Angeles - with others forecast next year.

For DMM to have links with London, I think they would need to work with BA to potentially launch 3x weekly B787-8 to DMM from LHR. Its the only way I think the city will be served from London

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:02 pm
by Ronaldo747
TC957 wrote:
JED/RUH-IAH is about 500 miles less than SFO-SIN and way less than PER-LHR so I don't understand the issues a 789 would have.


Completly different wind conditions enroute … most of the time they will face (strong) headwinds.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:19 pm
by HUYfan
Dammam was served by BA and Bmi in the past and Dhahran previously for many years from both Heathrow and Gatwick.

I think for Dammam, the A32LR with either Saudia or SaudiGulf would be a suitable type. BA have evaluated a return to Dammam in recent years but it can simply make more money with higher load factors elsewhere.

IF A321LRs were ever part of the BA fleet, I would absolutely expect a Dammam route.

We shall see...

Kind regards

HUYfan

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:56 pm
by behramjee
Since LH Consulting took over Saudia Airlines internally few years ago, one of their commercial focus was for SV to descale it’s DMM based international operations and focus it around JED and RUH. Hence why you now see all DMM-PAK and MED-PAK nonstop flights suspended since S18 season. DMM also has reduced SV service into India and for medium / long haul its only MNL and DAC.

For SV to operate the A321NeoLR into LHR would require them to get new 4 weekly slots minimum at a decent timing to allow some onward connections internationally via DMM as the p2p demand alone cannot sustain such an operation.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:36 pm
by rbavfan
behramjee wrote:
This is Boeing’s order to lose if they don’t end up ordering more B789s. There is no need to order the A350 and add an extra fleet type into the mix thus causing more inefficiency.

In USA the only new route SV should consider is IAH and not ATL/DTW. At least IAH will have decent p2p demand plus at high yields due to the oil traffic. But for IAH, the B789 can’t make it so it has to be a B77W only.


You realize Boeing states 7370nm for the 77W & 7635nm for the 7899. So if the 789 can't make the IAH flight the 77W could not either as it does not fly as far.

Re: Saudia mulls new wide body order plus expansion plans.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:52 pm
by GRJGeorge
Will the A321Neo/LR be able to do JNB-JED, as they could then rather increase frequency on this route.
There's very few feasible options that the A321LR can open up from JNB, but this might be one of the few