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720B
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Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:22 pm

As per flight global, Colombia's Avianca canceled 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries until 2026 ( originally planned for 2020).

Avianca said this would reduce its financial commitments between 2020 and 2022 by $2.6 billion. The Colombian carrier has shifted its strategy to focus on profitability from growth.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -3-456700/
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:49 pm

Is this the second A320neo order cancelled this year after the Air Serbia cancellation? I Wonder how liberal the cancellation terms are. The avianca order was a huge expansion which required quite a bit of optimism.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:55 pm

Avianca if it can should cancel the A319neo order as the A320neo can do A319ceo hot and high missions to North America.
 
dcajet
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:13 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Avianca if it can should cancel the A319neo order as the A320neo can do A319ceo hot and high missions to North America.


Avianca is increasingly using the A319 for additional services for the medium hauls to South America from BOG: EZE, GIG, GRU & SCL, all between 5-6 hrs flight time. Can the A320 NEO pull them off given BOG's altitude restrictions?

Another consideration is the fact that Avianca is trying to cut capacity & growth, focusing instead on financial performance. Adding more seats defeats that goal.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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crimsonchin
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:23 pm

Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.
 
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prchan
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:24 pm

It probably can. LA/JJ flew GRU-BOG with A320 CEO in the past. I took this flight several times during the last 2 years.
 
oschkosch
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:26 pm

crimsonchin wrote:
Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.
It's still a rather long year ahead. Boeing faces more problems than Airbus.....Just saying....

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oschkosch
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:27 pm

crimsonchin wrote:
Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.
It's still a rather long year ahead. Boeing faces more problems than Airbus.....Just saying....

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oschkosch
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:27 pm

crimsonchin wrote:
Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.
It's still a rather long year ahead. Boeing faces more problems than Airbus.....Just saying....

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pipeafcr
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:29 pm

It’s part of the restructuring process. See more here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1416689&p=21133411

Basically Avianca doesn’t want a huge order of planes with far away delivery dates considering that there will be better technologically advanced planes by the time they get at least half of their neo orders fulfilled
Felipe Carrillo
 
dcajet
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:30 pm

prchan wrote:
It probably can. LA/JJ flew GRU-BOG with A320 CEO in the past. I took this flight several times during the last 2 years.


I guess it all boils down to what kind of performance penalties there are and how acceptable they are for the airline. Keep in mind EZE can oftentimes be over 6 hours' flight time from BOG. The 738 has enough penalties with BOG's height that AR has scheduled the 73G on the route instead. AV also flies the second daily EZE service with the A319, not the A320.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:39 pm

crimsonchin wrote:
Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.


That's the least you can say.
At this rate, Airbus' backlog will shrink by hundreds of aircraft this year.

Has Airbus forgotten how to sell aircraft?
 
vfw614
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:41 pm

I guess they will have no problem filling those delivery slots considering the challenges Boeing is currently facing with its NB line...
 
dcajet
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:00 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.


That's the least you can say.
At this rate, Airbus' backlog will shrink by hundreds of aircraft this year.

Has Airbus forgotten how to sell aircraft?


Considering they have sold more A350s in Q1 2019 than in all of 2018, I'd say no.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:04 pm

dcajet wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.


That's the least you can say.
At this rate, Airbus' backlog will shrink by hundreds of aircraft this year.

Has Airbus forgotten how to sell aircraft?


Considering they have sold more A350s in Q1 2019 than in all of 2018, I'd say no.

Even counting EY? Hmmm.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:34 pm

dcajet wrote:
Can the A320 NEO pull them off given BOG's altitude restrictions?

Airbus'own rumour (from testings in Lijiang, China) is saying A320neo can pull off as much as A319ceo high-altitude version on high-altitude airports which could be quite a tremendous improvement over A320ceo.

Michael
 
RCS763AV
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:31 am

I think this is a great thing for Avianca. They had too much debt, with debt service eating away their profits. Acquiring the debt was necessary at one point because the company needed to grow after the merger with TA and to actually get some economies of scale but now is the time to reorganize and actually start making money. The LCC war is ongoing in short haul markets and is coming to long haul soon, so they're going to have to change many aspects of their operation to remain profitable. Additionally, Synergy Group, Avianca's main shareholder, has also run out of cash after having to finance the disastrously unprofitable Brazil operation, so they need to reduce their financing commitments.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:39 am

I wonder if airbus is offering easy-outs for airlines that don't need increased capacity in the near future to open up near-term production slots so there's actually some possibility of capturing a little market share during the MAX's dilemma. It's been discussed how Airbus can't really capitalize on it because they don't have any open production slots... letting long time customers defer deliveries all the way back to 2028 achieves this while keeping a customer happy.
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many321
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:12 am

RCS763AV wrote:
I think this is a great thing for Avianca. They had too much debt, with debt service eating away their profits. Acquiring the debt was necessary at one point because the company needed to grow after the merger with TA and to actually get some economies of scale but now is the time to reorganize and actually start making money. The LCC war is ongoing in short haul markets and is coming to long haul soon, so they're going to have to change many aspects of their operation to remain profitable.


I agree.

I do see them trying to compete with Y4/Q6 since in the LAX sector, it seems that some are biting the cheap fare prices and trying them than spending X amount of money with AV.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:30 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.


That's the least you can say.
At this rate, Airbus' backlog will shrink by hundreds of aircraft this year.

Has Airbus forgotten how to sell aircraft?

I think more on the line Airbus wants to remove doubtful orders to release valuable slots for others and release their current customers from financial commitment rather than seeing them crash and burn. Remember how long Airbus to cancel Iraqi Airways's order for 5 A310 which was never built or delivered?

Airbus has cancelled and removed those of A380, A350 order and now with A320neo. This is evident from how fast they removed Germania's order for 25 and Etihad's revised order after negotiation conclusion. If they do the same for A320ceo, they can easily free up another 100 slots to meet airline demand (if they prefer new A32ceo) due to 737Max grounding but that is another topic altogether.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
smartplane
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:26 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.


That's the least you can say.
At this rate, Airbus' backlog will shrink by hundreds of aircraft this year.

Has Airbus forgotten how to sell aircraft?

Selling is only part of the equation - getting paid completes the circle.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:45 am

juliuswong wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Interesting numbers for Airbus' order books so far this year.


That's the least you can say.
At this rate, Airbus' backlog will shrink by hundreds of aircraft this year.

Has Airbus forgotten how to sell aircraft?

I think more on the line Airbus wants to remove doubtful orders to release valuable slots for others and release their current customers from financial commitment rather than seeing them crash and burn. Remember how long Airbus to cancel Iraqi Airways's order for 5 A310 which was never built or delivered?

Airbus has cancelled and removed those of A380, A350 order and now with A320neo. This is evident from how fast they removed Germania's order for 25 and Etihad's revised order after negotiation conclusion. If they do the same for A320ceo, they can easily free up another 100 slots to meet airline demand (if they prefer new A32ceo) due to 737Max grounding but that is another topic altogether.



There is nothing to capitalise on the B737Max grounding, because it will be cleared in a matter of weeks or months. If not, Boeing is going to revert to NG-only production and Airbus is still going through its own shameful ordeal with PW GTF issues.

And sorry but a cancellation is a cancellation, no matter how much you try to twist it into a glass half full.
The lessors have over 1500 A320neo family on order, that's plenty enough if someone wants an early delivery slot.

Airbus is going to close the first quarter with deeply negative orders, I don't think this has ever happened in the past three decades.
 
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keesje
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:49 am

Very interesting related to the A319NEO program. Aren't they the biggest customer?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
juliuswong
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:00 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

That's the least you can say.
At this rate, Airbus' backlog will shrink by hundreds of aircraft this year.

Has Airbus forgotten how to sell aircraft?

I think more on the line Airbus wants to remove doubtful orders to release valuable slots for others and release their current customers from financial commitment rather than seeing them crash and burn. Remember how long Airbus to cancel Iraqi Airways's order for 5 A310 which was never built or delivered?

Airbus has cancelled and removed those of A380, A350 order and now with A320neo. This is evident from how fast they removed Germania's order for 25 and Etihad's revised order after negotiation conclusion. If they do the same for A320ceo, they can easily free up another 100 slots to meet airline demand (if they prefer new A32ceo) due to 737Max grounding but that is another topic altogether.



There is nothing to capitalise on the B737Max grounding, because it will be cleared in a matter of weeks or months. If not, Boeing is going to revert to NG-only production and Airbus is still going through its own shameful ordeal with PW GTF issues.

And sorry but a cancellation is a cancellation, no matter how much you try to twist it into a glass half full.
The lessors have over 1500 A320neo family on order, that's plenty enough if someone wants an early delivery slot.

Airbus is going to close the first quarter with deeply negative orders, I don't think this has ever happened in the past three decades.

Thank you for your reply. I will reserve my comment, from your comment I deduced that you are Boeing bias?
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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flee
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:02 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Is this the second A320neo order cancelled this year after the Air Serbia cancellation? I Wonder how liberal the cancellation terms are. The avianca order was a huge expansion which required quite a bit of optimism.

Perhaps the airlines were able to cancel penalty free because Airbus itself is at fault? The A320Neo delays due to the late deliveries of engines meant that most customers are not receiving the aircraft that they ordered on schedule.
 
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c933103
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:32 am

So what are the model breakdown of those delays/cancellation?
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OA940
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:58 pm

It's better than AV keeping the order and going bankrupt that's all I'm saying.
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george77300
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:38 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Is this the second A320neo order cancelled this year after the Air Serbia cancellation? I Wonder how liberal the cancellation terms are. The avianca order was a huge expansion which required quite a bit of optimism.


Germania cancelled 25 A320neos too. That showed in the February update.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Colombia's Avianca cancels 17 Airbus plane orders, delays 35 deliveries

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:00 pm

dcajet wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Avianca if it can should cancel the A319neo order as the A320neo can do A319ceo hot and high missions to North America.


Avianca is increasingly using the A319 for additional services for the medium hauls to South America from BOG: EZE, GIG, GRU & SCL, all between 5-6 hrs flight time. Can the A320 NEO pull them off given BOG's altitude restrictions?

Another consideration is the fact that Avianca is trying to cut capacity & growth, focusing instead on financial performance. Adding more seats defeats that goal.


I have seen it done from MDE, but not BOG. MDE is also hot and high though at 7030 feet above sea level (BOG is 8365 feet).

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