junlinwong94
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Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:26 pm

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain ... SL8N1UB0Q2

thought they were leaning towards Boeing for widebodies but perhaps may be due to the A350-1000 world tour which took a stop at Taipei.
Well anything could happen soo

Anyways, possible to close this deal during the Farnborough Airshow 2018?
Last edited by SQ22 on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
trex8
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Re: Airbus near deal with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:19 pm

junlinwong94 wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-airshow-starlux/airbus-near-deal-to-sell-a350s-to-taiwans-starlux-sources-idUSL8N1UB0Q2

thought they were leaning towards Boeing for widebodies but perhaps may be due to the A350-1000 world tour which took a stop at Taipei.
Well anything could happen soo

Anyways, possible to close this deal during the Farnborough Airshow 2018?

Seems like they were set on an Airbus narrowbody so makes sense to get an A350. The -1000 visiting TPE earlier this year was probably more show for BR. Also CI exec on the London route launch last Dec was saying very favorable things about the -1000.
 
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janders
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:20 pm

Sounds like A350 might join the Starlux fleet


Airbus near deal to sell A350s to Taiwan's StarLux.
https://www.reuters.com/article/britain ... SL8N1UB0Q2
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juliuswong
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:15 pm

This is a surprise. Coming from K-dong, I was thinking he has an affinity for Boeing as long haul and Airbus for short haul, judging from BR purchase history. Does this mean B77W is no longer coming?
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eamondzhang
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:12 am

Yeah I've also heard rumours that Starlux is going to place an Airbus widebody order, as early as today (16 July down here). The source came from internal Airbus source so it should be reliable.

Michael
 
juliuswong
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:37 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Yeah I've also heard rumours that Starlux is going to place an Airbus widebody order, as early as today (16 July down here). The source came from internal Airbus source so it should be reliable.

Michael

Thanks Micheal for the confirmation. Whatever Airbus insider rumour is, will mostly turn out to be true. Finger crossed on this! Given KW close relationship with Boeing, this Airbus widebody order is really a surprise. I supposed after crunching all the numbers, the management concluded that buying next generation widebody is wiser, although Boeing might have pitched end-of-line B77W together with B787 and B77X. One aspect to note though, B787 and A350 expertise are readily available in Taiwan, albeit 787 sometime later this year when it enter service with BR.
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eamondzhang
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:50 am

juliuswong wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Yeah I've also heard rumours that Starlux is going to place an Airbus widebody order, as early as today (16 July down here). The source came from internal Airbus source so it should be reliable.

Michael

Thanks Micheal for the confirmation. Whatever Airbus insider rumour is, will mostly turn out to be true. Finger crossed on this! Given KW close relationship with Boeing, this Airbus widebody order is really a surprise. I supposed after crunching all the numbers, the management concluded that buying next generation widebody is wiser, although Boeing might have pitched end-of-line B77W together with B787 and B77X. One aspect to note though, B787 and A350 expertise are readily available in Taiwan, albeit 787 sometime later this year when it enter service with BR.

Indeed and I was surprised too when I received the info last Friday. But given CI and BR's presence I wouldn't be surprised if KW decided to choose a smaller jet this time (A338neo anyone? :stirthepot: ). I mean TW-North American is quite saturated already and there're fierce competitions to both SEA and Europe; KW may very well wanted to start off with a less risky plan instead of dumping capacity to depress his yield further.

Michael
 
coolfish1103
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:45 am

5x A350-900
12x A350-1000
10x A321 (5+5)
 
behramjee
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:03 am

coolfish1103 wrote:
5x A350-900
12x A350-1000
10x A321 (5+5)


Looks like you’re right as here’s the article on it

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-starlux
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:50 am

Whilst I keep my fingers crossed for Starlux, I am always skeptical about its plans, Hong Kong route, for one, are closed for now as current rights are already filled, bilateral rights for long haul routes are too complex, UK is off, maybe France, Germany is off too, so maybe BRU, for US, the competition ex TPE are too intense, they have to fill in with traffic from MNL,BKK etc where the yield is junk and anything within 4 hours radius from TPE they have to fight with LCC, Japan, Korea, Singapore, KUL all have LCC competition and rights for profitable routes into China, such as PVG, BJS, CAN are all stitched up by the Big 2, whatever left is icing on the cake. The widebody should be kept to 10 units only doing LAX, SFO, Europe and some fill in during the day, with the rest being A321NEO which could cover whole of Asia. He is betting on opening up of bilateral rights both in China and international routes, which given KW's (red) pocket and links, would be a very big bet.
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:59 am

behramjee wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
5x A350-900
12x A350-1000
10x A321 (5+5)


Looks like you’re right as here’s the article on it

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-starlux

"That plane has a current backlog of 224 aircraft including 10 booked last month from an unidentified customer which is expected to be disclosed at the show as Indonesian discount carrier Lion Mentari Airlines PT, the person said."
Not on Eva Air order, rather the mysterious A330neo last month has finally been answered....it was Lion Air. I was under impression Boeing was fighting tooth and nail for the order.
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c933103
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:16 am

Surprising for them to choose something other than 777
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:37 am

B-HOP wrote:
Whilst I keep my fingers crossed for Starlux, I am always skeptical about its plans, Hong Kong route, for one, are closed for now as current rights are already filled, bilateral rights for long haul routes are too complex, UK is off, maybe France, Germany is off too, so maybe BRU, for US, the competition ex TPE are too intense, they have to fill in with traffic from MNL,BKK etc where the yield is junk and anything within 4 hours radius from TPE they have to fight with LCC, Japan, Korea, Singapore, KUL all have LCC competition and rights for profitable routes into China, such as PVG, BJS, CAN are all stitched up by the Big 2, whatever left is icing on the cake. The widebody should be kept to 10 units only doing LAX, SFO, Europe and some fill in during the day, with the rest being A321NEO which could cover whole of Asia. He is betting on opening up of bilateral rights both in China and international routes, which given KW's (red) pocket and links, would be a very big bet.


He is better off IMO investing money into an all freighter operation rather than passenger. At least that will see guaranteed year round demand both ways plus easier bilateral access.
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:29 am

Guess the CEO will be getting his A350 rating to go along with his B777 experience.
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:48 am

LAXintl wrote:
Guess the CEO will be getting his A350 rating to go along with his B777 experience.


Who awards the type rating? Is there a conflict of interest in the CEO flying an airline's aircraft with paying passengers?
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:56 am

I’m surprised Airbus got the widebody order. I thought Boeing and GEACS has this one in the bag. I guess it came down to which leasing company can provide the slots needed for the target delivery dates.
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:15 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Guess the CEO will be getting his A350 rating to go along with his B777 experience.


Who awards the type rating? Is there a conflict of interest in the CEO flying an airline's aircraft with paying passengers?

Taiwan’s Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA), under the Ministry of Transportation and Communication, is the party responsible in granting type rating. Don't see any conflict that CEO is flying aircraft with paying passengers as long as they passed all necessary tests and exams. Plenty of example in history. Niki Lauda flew some Niki flight before he sold it off to airberlin (there is a trip report by a.net member testified this), Sultan of Brunei flies every other new aircraft after delivery (although without any passengers, but with government officials), King of Netherlands is upgrading his type rating for 737NG after their age-old F-70 was retired, will fly commercial flight annually to keep his license valid.
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questions
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:58 am

This just seems nuts!

Who is funding this venture? Why would anyone invest in this? How can Taiwan support a third airline? From which routes do they think they can pull market share? Why do they believe they can do better than China Airlines and EVA, both members of alliances that can provide feed?
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:49 am

It's just a MOU, anything can happen between now till a real contract is signed.
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:06 am

questions wrote:
From which routes do they think they can pull market share?

I wonder if they think they can take advantage of the fact that many long-haul routes ex-TPE are monopolies? For example, FRA, MEL, ORD and SYD. As AC, NZ and others are showing by re-launching TPE, many foreign carriers seem to think that there is enough potential for a second carrier on many ex-TPE routes. There are also quite a few big unserved markets ex-TPE, like ATL, BCN, BOS, DFW, IAD, MAD, MIA, MUC, MXP and ZRH, despite TPE being one of the top 10 busiest airports in the world for international traffic. That being said, it seems like it's a risky enterprise, particularly if short-haul feed isn't secured quickly.

Cheers,

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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:34 am

questions wrote:
This just seems nuts!

Who is funding this venture? Why would anyone invest in this? How can Taiwan support a third airline? From which routes do they think they can pull market share? Why do they believe they can do better than China Airlines and EVA, both members of alliances that can provide feed?


You do ask a lot of questions!

Seems like this is akin to Bamboo Airways in Vietnam. Don't really know if it'll work out, time will tell.
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:27 am

This one seems to be quite a risky proposition indeed.

As stated previously in this thread, there are a number of limitations in the Taiwan market, whether it be market size, bi-lateral restrictions or even politics. It’s certainly not a market that seems to be calling out for a 3rd carrier of this scale.

As for targeting monopoly routes, there’s often a reason that those are as they are. There just is a limited market and it’s likely already taken. MEL was listed in an earlier post, but CI operates it 3 x weekly with A359’s (soon 77W’s) but there appears to be limited scope for upgrading frequencies. It’s been a bit of a struggle at times, so such a market really has very little need for a competitive presence to join.
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:44 am

juliuswong wrote:
This is a surprise. Coming from K-dong, I was thinking he has an affinity for Boeing as long haul and Airbus for short haul, judging from BR purchase history. Does this mean B77W is no longer coming?


This is not a surprise at all. I doubt Boeing wanted to get near Starlux given Boeing's relations with Eva Air as there seems to be quite a bit of contention in the air.

Is there any information on financing or Starlux in general and this order in particular? I know Chang is rich, but certainly not rich enough to bootstrap an airline of that size without outside money.
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:42 pm

questions wrote:
This just seems nuts!

Who is funding this venture? Why would anyone invest in this? How can Taiwan support a third airline? From which routes do they think they can pull market share? Why do they believe they can do better than China Airlines and EVA, both members of alliances that can provide feed?


I believe the chairman is self-funding most of the investment in Starlux. He inherited a lot of money from his dad but he was pushed out of EVA by his older siblings. Financing is probably the least of Starlux's concern.

Can Taiwan support a third full service network airline? That depends. Taiwan's outbound travel level is quit low relative to its GDP and per capital income in comparison to other developed economy. So the market has quite a bit of growth left in it. Taiwan's inbound tourism is also relatively undeveloped and with friendly visa regime in place, Taiwan Govt's long term policy goal is hoping to grow inbound tourism from Southeast Asia. And let's not ignore the big elephant in the room... at some point, Chinese passengers may be able to transit at TPE. That will be a bonanza for all Taiwan based long haul carrier.

The real challenge for Starlux is Taiwan's relatively restrictive air service agreements. Services to China and Europe will be almost impossible.
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:45 pm

bzcat wrote:
I believe the chairman is self-funding most of the investment in Starlux. He inherited a lot of money from his dad but he was pushed out of EVA by his older siblings. Financing is probably the least of Starlux's concern.


How does one become a multi-millionaire?

bzcat wrote:
at some point, Chinese passengers may be able to transit at TPE. That will be a bonanza for all Taiwan based long haul carrier.


Will it really, though? They'd be competing with the mainland carriers which seem to be implicitly backstopped by the PRC and/or regional governments, not to mention KE, OZ, JL, NH, CX, SQ, PR, VN, etc. TPE isn't even particularly well-located for connections to/from China unless you're talking about Australia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Malaysia, etc. The geography is unfavorable for North America and Europe. Taiwan isn't a low-cost place to do business compared to the mainland, either.

bzcat wrote:
Taiwan's inbound tourism is also relatively undeveloped and with friendly visa regime in place, Taiwan Govt's long term policy goal is hoping to grow inbound tourism from Southeast Asia.


That seems more of a better match to a carrier/group like Air Asia/Air Asia X than a full-service carrier, though.
 
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Re: Starlux: Ex-EVA Air chairman's new longhaul airline

Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:18 pm

ScottB wrote:
bzcat wrote:
I believe the chairman is self-funding most of the investment in Starlux. He inherited a lot of money from his dad but he was pushed out of EVA by his older siblings. Financing is probably the least of Starlux's concern.


How does one become a multi-millionaire?.


One thing for certain, getting in the airline business is about as good as getting a whole pile of money and burning it.
 
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:39 am

One thing for sure, K-dong (Director K in Mandarin as he is affectionately called locally) has some of most caliber professional working with him. Most of these are ex-BR staff who are loyal to him and left BR when he was ousted. They have gotten their numbers crunched, if not they won't so daring to launch a third FSC tbh.
Last edited by juliuswong on Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:46 am

Interesting that a startup would order more A350s than A321s. It looks similar to Bamboo Airways but more biased towards long haul. I find that interesting since Taiwanese airlines don’t have particularly good access to Europe due to limits traffic rights.

I wish them the best of luck.
 
trex8
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:01 am

BR went a decade and half + bleeding money and being propped up by the parent companies very (at the time) profitable maritime operations, CI has the governments back. This is going to flop. CI will always be the opposition and with BR, well nothing gets nastier than a family feud .
 
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:39 am

With the A321 it looks a bit more realistic but still ambitious, especially in a difficult market like Taiwan.
 
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:24 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Interesting that a startup would order more A350s than A321s. It looks similar to Bamboo Airways but more biased towards long haul. I find that interesting since Taiwanese airlines don’t have particularly good access to Europe due to limits traffic rights.

I wish them the best of luck.


I *think* this is the strategy based on the orders...

5x A350-900
12x A350-1000
10x A321 (5+5)

Stage 1 of the airline will be to establish TPE hub with 5x A321 and 5x A359 and 6x A351. Starlux can operate 10 to 12 regional Asia flights daily with 5x A321 firm order, which is enough to start - e.g. BKK, ICN, SGN, MNL, KUL, SIN, DPS, CGK, KIX, FUK, NGO, NRT/HND. But it will also launch 6 or 7 long haul flights to the US and Australia (both open sky with Taiwan) - e.g. LAX, SFO, SEA, SYD, BNE and each route will take up to 2 frames to operate. So it makes sense that they will order more A350 than A321 to start. And the high demand regional Asia trunk routes (e.g. NRT/HND or HKG) can also be flown with A350 in between long haul rotations.

Stage 2 of the airline will be to establish Southeast Asia feed with 5x A321 options. The 5 options for A321 will double up the daily frequencies to those 10-12 regional destinations or add new regional destinations. Starlux can always access the lease market for more narrow body. It is much easier to lease more A321 than A350. Leasing companies have a lot more A321/737 slots than they do A350 slots.

Stage 3 of the airline will be to enter China and Europe, which will be the tough nut to crack. By that time, Starlux will have use for all the remaining 6x A351... or it would have failed already.
 
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:07 pm

bzcat wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Interesting that a startup would order more A350s than A321s. It looks similar to Bamboo Airways but more biased towards long haul. I find that interesting since Taiwanese airlines don’t have particularly good access to Europe due to limits traffic rights.

I wish them the best of luck.


I *think* this is the strategy based on the orders...

5x A350-900
12x A350-1000
10x A321 (5+5)

Stage 1 of the airline will be to establish TPE hub with 5x A321 and 5x A359 and 6x A351. Starlux can operate 10 to 12 regional Asia flights daily with 5x A321 firm order, which is enough to start - e.g. BKK, ICN, SGN, MNL, KUL, SIN, DPS, CGK, KIX, FUK, NGO, NRT/HND. But it will also launch 6 or 7 long haul flights to the US and Australia (both open sky with Taiwan) - e.g. LAX, SFO, SEA, SYD, BNE and each route will take up to 2 frames to operate. So it makes sense that they will order more A350 than A321 to start. And the high demand regional Asia trunk routes (e.g. NRT/HND or HKG) can also be flown with A350 in between long haul rotations.

Stage 2 of the airline will be to establish Southeast Asia feed with 5x A321 options. The 5 options for A321 will double up the daily frequencies to those 10-12 regional destinations or add new regional destinations. Starlux can always access the lease market for more narrow body. It is much easier to lease more A321 than A350. Leasing companies have a lot more A321/737 slots than they do A350 slots.

Stage 3 of the airline will be to enter China and Europe, which will be the tough nut to crack. By that time, Starlux will have use for all the remaining 6x A351... or it would have failed already.


Would be great to have Starlux in Brisbane!
 
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:04 am

bzcat wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Interesting that a startup would order more A350s than A321s. It looks similar to Bamboo Airways but more biased towards long haul. I find that interesting since Taiwanese airlines don’t have particularly good access to Europe due to limits traffic rights.

I wish them the best of luck.


I *think* this is the strategy based on the orders...

5x A350-900
12x A350-1000
10x A321 (5+5)

Stage 1 of the airline will be to establish TPE hub with 5x A321 and 5x A359 and 6x A351. Starlux can operate 10 to 12 regional Asia flights daily with 5x A321 firm order, which is enough to start - e.g. BKK, ICN, SGN, MNL, KUL, SIN, DPS, CGK, KIX, FUK, NGO, NRT/HND. But it will also launch 6 or 7 long haul flights to the US and Australia (both open sky with Taiwan) - e.g. LAX, SFO, SEA, SYD, BNE and each route will take up to 2 frames to operate. So it makes sense that they will order more A350 than A321 to start. And the high demand regional Asia trunk routes (e.g. NRT/HND or HKG) can also be flown with A350 in between long haul rotations.

Stage 2 of the airline will be to establish Southeast Asia feed with 5x A321 options. The 5 options for A321 will double up the daily frequencies to those 10-12 regional destinations or add new regional destinations. Starlux can always access the lease market for more narrow body. It is much easier to lease more A321 than A350. Leasing companies have a lot more A321/737 slots than they do A350 slots.

Stage 3 of the airline will be to enter China and Europe, which will be the tough nut to crack. By that time, Starlux will have use for all the remaining 6x A351... or it would have failed already.


That seems like a very aggressive plan that requires stealing market share from two entrenched airlines. I don’t know how the Taiwanese market will react to that. That’s no easy task for long haul entrants especially how Chinese airlines have dumped low fares in the market with connections to China.
 
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:59 pm

A normal risk based analysis will probably conclude that you should not enter the airline market in Taiwan because of the two entrenched local carriers. But Starlux is not *normal* in that sense... it is not a conglomerate trying to diversify its operations... it is a start up airline. So once you have already decided to start an airline based in Taiwan, the most logical play is to attack long haul high yield part of the market.

It all make sense from that point... Starlux's plan is not too aggressive if you believe short haul and regional O&D between Taiwan and Southeast Asia will eventually be dominated by LCC like it has in other similar sectors.

I think the market analysis that Starlux did must have told them that it is foolish to try to engage with LCC, especially foreign LCC with lower cost base than Taiwan based network carrier. So the only logical place to go is long haul.
 
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janders
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:34 pm

Starlux to take first aircraft, receive it's AOC in Q4

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -q4-454816

1st A321 due Oct. Plans 3 frames to commence service with.
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PlanesNTrains
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:13 pm

Still 3 years out from commencing long haul ops.
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:54 pm

They also mentioned they are planning to recruit up to 120 flight assistants by July 2019 ahead of starting ops in October (with the 321N).

Best of luck to this new venture, though I fail to see any significant empty space they could fill in the super-competitive Taipei market, especially long-haul. It will be interesting to see if they will focus exclusively on TPE or if they have some plans for Kaohsiung as well.

MN
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:16 pm

Related: Does TW CAA actively restrain international use of RMQ (Taichung)? Admittedly, it lacks rail service (which KHH and TPE have), but it would be more convenient for locals rather than schlepping up to TPE. Could Starlux operate out of RMQ?
 
c933103
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:45 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Related: Does TW CAA actively restrain international use of RMQ (Taichung)? Admittedly, it lacks rail service (which KHH and TPE have), but it would be more convenient for locals rather than schlepping up to TPE. Could Starlux operate out of RMQ?

UO (a HK LCC) currently operates HKG-RMQ.
KA operate this route too.
Last edited by c933103 on Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zakuivcustom
Posts: 2461
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:46 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Related: Does TW CAA actively restrain international use of RMQ (Taichung)? Admittedly, it lacks rail service (which KHH and TPE have), but it would be more convenient for locals rather than schlepping up to TPE. Could Starlux operate out of RMQ?


Not really. If anything TW CAA would love to have more carriers flying into RMQ. At least it has flight to places like NRT and ICN and BKK now, something that's not even true for a long time (Basically the only flights are to HKG, mainland, and of course, Kinmen and Penghu/Makung).

To me, RMQ suffered from an effect similar to NGO in Japan - stuck between the big city/economic center (Taipei for Taiwan vs. Tokyo for Japan) and the bustling port city on the other end (Kaohsiung for Taiwan vs. Osaka area for Japan), with the city itself being fairly uninteresting (Ok, Taichung city is at least a little bit more interesting than Nagoya, but still nothing compare to its larger siblings), mostly industrial base economy, etc. Both Taichung and Nagoya are gateway to their respective region, yes (Taichung is gateway for places like Cingjing Farm and Shei-Pa NP, Nagoya is gateway to the Japanese Alps/Shoryudo), but those places can be reached relatively easily from its larger siblings, also.

Ultimately, Starlux based in Taichung would be similar to AirAsia Japan and their attempt to base in NGO - the market is just limited, even though theoretically they face less competitions.

EDIT:
c933103 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Related: Does TW CAA actively restrain international use of RMQ (Taichung)? Admittedly, it lacks rail service (which KHH and TPE have), but it would be more convenient for locals rather than schlepping up to TPE. Could Starlux operate out of RMQ?

UO (a HK LCC) currently operates HKG-RMQ.
KA operate this route too.


It's AE (Mandarin Airlines, regional affilate of CI, and is hubbed at RMQ operating E90s and a few 738 that they lease from CI), KA, and UO on HKG-RMQ. VJ also fly from RMQ to HAN and SGN (AE also fly RMQ-SGN), and VZ (Thai Vietjet) fly from RMQ to BKK. BR (along with T'way) fly to ICN, and AE flys to NRT (Daily) and OKA (3/wk). There is flight to numerous Mainland Chinese cities and 2/wk flights to PNH otherwise.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1990
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:20 am

IMO if fares were low enough, locals from Taoyuan to Tainan would bus from THSR Taichung to RMQ for lower priced flights. Fares just aren't low enough yet, even though nearly all the service to RMQ is LCC.
https://www.tca.gov.tw/eng/index.php?act=fids&code=now
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:05 am

WPvsMW wrote:
IMO if fares were low enough, locals from Taoyuan to Tainan would bus from THSR Taichung to RMQ for lower priced flights. Fares just aren't low enough yet, even though nearly all the service to RMQ is LCC.
https://www.tca.gov.tw/eng/index.php?act=fids&code=now


Except Mandarin Airlines is not a LCC :?

Using LH as a comparison (I just pick LH since it's the first example that comes to my mind)
CI = LH Mainline
AE (Mandarin Airlines) = Lufthansa Cityline
IT (Tigerair Taiwan) = Eurowings

In fact, Tigerair Taiwan barely fly to RMQ. They got one single daily flight to/from MFM (Macau) from RMQ and that's it.

If anything I believe most people from Taichung just go up to TPE anyway (via THSR to Taoyuan Station then change to the new Metro line) since there are just not many flights to/from RMQ. From Taichung HSR Station it's only about 1.5 hrs total anyway.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1990
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:10 am

Yeah, I guess with a free 10 kg checked bag allowance, domestically, AE is not an LCC. IT is definitely LCC or even ULCC.
True, TPE is more convenient to Taoyuan... I should have said Hsinchu as the most northern catchment, but my point is, in TW, extreme frugality would drive pax to RMQ if the price were low enough. A VY (Vueling) game plan. Make an ULCC hub (BCN) where no operator has any current hub. Squeeze some subsidies out of the Taichung government.
 
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MetalNeutral
Posts: 12
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:21 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
IMO if fares were low enough, locals from Taoyuan to Tainan would bus from THSR Taichung to RMQ for lower priced flights. Fares just aren't low enough yet, even though nearly all the service to RMQ is LCC.
https://www.tca.gov.tw/eng/index.php?act=fids&code=now


From Tainan is definitely more convenient to drive to KHH directly (45 mins / 1 h). It’s also doable by public transport (train and metro). That’s basically the reason why TNN won’t get any significant development over time. I would not consider going to RMQ from Tainan, unless the price is much lower than flying out of KHH.

MN
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2461
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:08 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Yeah, I guess with a free 10 kg checked bag allowance, domestically, AE is not an LCC. IT is definitely LCC or even ULCC.
True, TPE is more convenient to Taoyuan... I should have said Hsinchu as the most northern catchment, but my point is, in TW, extreme frugality would drive pax to RMQ if the price were low enough. A VY (Vueling) game plan. Make an ULCC hub (BCN) where no operator has any current hub. Squeeze some subsidies out of the Taichung government.


There's a HUGE difference between BCN and RMQ, though. BCN has a large inbound tourism sector in addition to outbound demand for Catalan people. If anything, MM (Peach) would be a better comparison to VY - i.e. based in the "2nd city" (BCN for VY vs. KIX for MM), serving a relative underserved market, owned by a larger carrier (Iberia for VY, ANA for MM) that's based much more in that "primary city" (MAD for IB/TYO for NH), and also serves a city with tons of inbound tourism demand (At least for tourists from HK/China/S. Korea/Taiwan, Osaka/Kyoto is more attractive than Tokyo) along with fair size outbound demand. It's telling why MM was making a profit early on, while it took (IIRC) 4-5 years before Jetstar Japan makes money (And this is with JJP having a network advantage).

Either way, even if Starlux based themselves in RMQ, they still have to face heavy competition from IT on the low end (along with all the LCCs that currently fly to TPE), and face competition on the high end from CI and of course, Starlux's revenge target BR. It's often overrated as to how far people are willing to drive just to get a cheaper flight anyway. Europe is an exception b/c the mainline legacies stayed expensive even in the face of competitions against RYR and EZY. If anything, even Ryanair is increasingly serving the "main" airports instead of some airport in the middle of nowhere.

Bottom line, you need the fares to be like 50% if you want to attract somebody from as far away from Taipei to go all the way down to RMQ (Which even with THSR is a little bit of a pain since access to RMQ is awful). But can an airline make any money at such low fares? And you think BR is not going to response to that "rouge" brother? Either way, it's all theoretical anyway as Starlux will be based in TPE.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1990
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:19 pm

@zakuicustom, excellent analysis, and MM is a much better analogy than VY. The whole premise would be price. And "rogue" is correct, but maybe not "brother". "Blood feud", or "rebel", rather than "brother". :)
 
bzcat
Posts: 328
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:58 pm

There is no point trying to corner the market at RMQ... there is relatively very little travel demand compare to TPE. Plus the airport is a joint military and civilian facility so I wonder really how many more flights it can handle if someone setup a airline hub there.

Air travel level in Taiwan is relatively low compare to other countries with similar GDP. So there is a lot of potential growth left in the aviation market in Taiwan.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:18 pm

First service planned January 2020 with 2 or 3 destinations.

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201901160027.aspx

Longhaul planned for 2022 with target of US markets like Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and Houston.
Goal is for transit between the U.S. and Southeast Asia to represent 40-50 percent of passenger volume.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
hayzel777
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:18 am

Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:36 pm

LAXintl wrote:
First service planned January 2020 with 2 or 3 destinations.

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201901160027.aspx

Longhaul planned for 2022 with target of US markets like Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and Houston.
Goal is for transit between the U.S. and Southeast Asia to represent 40-50 percent of passenger volume.

Good luck to them. They will need it.
 
bzcat
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: Confirmed: Airbus signs MoU with Taiwan's Starlux Airlines

Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:06 pm

LAXintl wrote:
First service planned January 2020 with 2 or 3 destinations.

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201901160027.aspx

Longhaul planned for 2022 with target of US markets like Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and Houston.
Goal is for transit between the U.S. and Southeast Asia to represent 40-50 percent of passenger volume.


This is a carbon copy of BR's business strategy which Chang developed and implemented while he was running BR.

I'm not saying it is a bad plan... but don't expect BR to just sit there and watch it happen without some kind of price war or retaliation. BR also has the advantage of a well developed US point of sale business and Star Alliance feed... Starlux will be fighting an uphill battle if it really intends on relying on 50% of transit loads on transpac flights. They probably should look at stimulating more O&D long haul travel ex-Taiwan in the long run.

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