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FCAFLYBOY
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BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:23 pm

Daily using 772 initially....

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... bia-route/

This will become BA's 3rd Saudi Arabian route following JED/RUH and is a reinstatement of the old BMI service I believe? The flight will tag-on from the existing LHR-BAH, so will route LHR-BAH-DMM-BAH-LHR.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:04 pm

Interesting. Will it be a 5th freedom like their KWI-DOH flight?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Cunard
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:38 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Interesting. Will it be a 5th freedom like their KWI-DOH flight?


DMM will be just a tag on from BAH with no 5th freedom flights between BAH and DMM.

DMM is actually a resumption of service by British Airways as it was previously served by the airline.

British Caledonian also flew from LGW to DMM from 1984 to 1988, when BCAL was taken over by British Airways in 1998 DMM once again became part of the airlines route network.

British Midland also flew to DMM from LHR as a tag on from one of their other flights in the region.
Last edited by Cunard on Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Luxair747SP
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:42 pm

Cunard wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
Interesting. Will it be a 5th freedom like their KWI-DOH flight?


DMM will be just a tag on from BAH with no 5th freedom flights between BAH and DMM.


This is just done to make the DMM bound travellers the immigration easier.
The one at the bridge can be a pain
But it will be fun to be on a 5 min 777 flight
 
Cunard
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:57 pm

According to a comment made on another thread someone has quoted a Tweet from British Airways that states that the flight will be rather longer than your suggestion of 5 mins.

Quoted flight times are

BAH-DMM 40 minutes
DMM-BAH 50 minutes

Quite a long flight considering that Bahrain to Damamm are only 51 miles/83 km apart.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Nickd92
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:00 pm

Are those BLOCK times? Push back to breaks on. If so quite realistic for such a short distance flight.
 
malioil
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:10 pm

The actual flight time between BAH -DMM is more akin to 20 minutes. These are very generous flight times.
 
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rida79
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:55 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Interesting. Will it be a 5th freedom like their KWI-DOH flight?


BA's LHR-KWI flight does not continue to DOH, You are probably thinking of the terminated UA IAD-KWI-BAH and IAD-DXB-DOH routes.
 
gunnerman
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:13 pm

LHR-BAH 1130-2055 6h 25m
BAH-DMM 2155-2245 0h 50m
Total 8h 15m including 1h on the ground

After 1hr 45m at DMM:

DMM-BAH 0030-0110 0h 40m
BAH-LHR 0220-0640 7h 20m
Total 9h 10m including 1h 10m on the ground

Three crews may be used:
LHR-BAH
BAH-DMM-BAH
BAH-LHR
 
BA777FO
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:29 pm

gunnerman wrote:
LHR-BAH 1130-2055 6h 25m
BAH-DMM 2155-2245 0h 50m
Total 8h 15m including 1h on the ground

After 1hr 45m at DMM:

DMM-BAH 0030-0110 0h 40m
BAH-LHR 0220-0640 7h 20m
Total 9h 10m including 1h 10m on the ground

Three crews may be used:
LHR-BAH
BAH-DMM-BAH
BAH-LHR


It'll be like to old BAH-DOH shuttle. Pilots will do LHR-BAH nighstop BAH-DMM shuttle nightstop and BAH-LHR. Cabin crew will do LHR-BAH-DMM nightstop DMM-BAH-LHR.
 
gunnerman
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:01 pm

What's the reason for pilots not nightstopping in DMM like the cabin crew?
 
LH658
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:37 pm

IAH - LGW - DMM and LOS was particularly for oil traffic. Why they flew from both London airports LHR and LGW. Glad to see DMM is back.
 
BA777FO
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:10 pm

It's in Bid Line Rules (pilot's industrial agreement) that they cannot operate another sector if there's a sector within the duty exceeding 7 hours. Because the return from BAH to LHR is 7.20 then flight crew can't do the DMM-BAH bit and continue to London. Cabin crew don't have that restriction so can work up to their industrial limit, which at that time of night is 11 hours or so without looking it up.
 
mutu
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:20 pm

Given BA has tried to decouple tag ons this feels either driven by a corporate contract or a cheap ish way to test demand for DMM without using another frame and slot, both of which are in short supply. (Or BAH is a bit soft). We might see a decoupling if evidence supports sufficient demand. Quite a few new routes yet to launch this year will use up all the slack in the system pending 350 deliveries going online in October proper
 
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Crosswind
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:28 pm

gunnerman wrote:
What's the reason for pilots not nightstopping in DMM like the cabin crew?


Industrial agreements. On long-haul pilots don't do multi-sectors (when a long-haul sector is involved) so the short sectors are always operated as a muti-sector shuttle after taking required rest. The pilots will again take required rest, before operating back to London. The cabin crew agreements are not so restrictive, so for these types of trips the Pilots will return to the UK a few days later than the Cabin Crew generally do.

Many Middle-East trips used to be "shuttle" services, LHR-BAH-DOH, LHR-AUH-MCT etc, and a few Caribbean services still are.

Best Regards
CROSSWIND
 
gunnerman
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:50 am

I'm more familiar with the Caribbean flights when both flight and cabin crew do the same flights, e.g. LGW-UVF, UVF-POS-UVF and UVF-LGW. I do believe, though, that the trips are different as pilots get a day's rest.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:39 am

I flew BAH-DMM-BAH many times. It's no more than 14 minutes airborne and 30 minutes block time.
 
FCAFLYBOY
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:16 am

mutu wrote:
Given BA has tried to decouple tag ons this feels either driven by a corporate contract or a cheap ish way to test demand for DMM without using another frame and slot, both of which are in short supply. (Or BAH is a bit soft). We might see a decoupling if evidence supports sufficient demand. Quite a few new routes yet to launch this year will use up all the slack in the system pending 350 deliveries going online in October proper


I’m in agreement, I think BA will test demand to see if it’s worth a stand-alone set of LHR slots for DMM in its own right. Let’s see!
 
BA777FO
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:54 am

gunnerman wrote:
I'm more familiar with the Caribbean flights when both flight and cabin crew do the same flights, e.g. LGW-UVF, UVF-POS-UVF and UVF-LGW. I do believe, though, that the trips are different as pilots get a day's rest.


Pilots get an extra day in UVF after the shuttle (making it a 5 day trip) as it's right on the limit of requiring a 3rd pilot - with thr journey time.it perhaps should already. Cabin crew fly home the day after the shuttle so a 4 day trip for them. To Antigua flight crew and cabin crew work the same trips.

This all could well pre-empt a non-stop service once aircraft availability improves when RR sort themselves out with the 787 engines.
 
vfw614
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Re: BA to launch LHR-DMM daily from 01DEC

Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:30 am

lesfalls wrote:
Interesting. Will it be a 5th freedom like their KWI-DOH flight?


What market would there be? The distance between Damman and Manama in Bahrain is 25 miles as the crow flies.

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