jplatts
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Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:05 am

HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.

HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii if (a) HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service and (b) HA enters into a codeshare partnership with one or more European airlines.

HA would be able to connect passengers to Australia and New Zealand from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

HNL-ANC nonstop service could also be added by HA in order to improve competition on the HNL-ANC nonstop route as AS is currently the only airline serving the state of Alaska nonstop from Hawaii. In addition to eliminating an AS monopoly on Alaska to Hawaii nonstop service, HA adding HNL-ANC nonstop service would improve connectivity to the other Hawaiian islands, Australia, and New Zealand from Alaska.

Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future? Are there other destinations in the contiguous U.S. that could be added by HA?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:26 am

Didn't HA once serve the HNL-ANC line at one time?
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:32 am

Because a boy can dream... ANC is on the great circle route between Hawaii and Europe is the ever wanted to do one stop service...

... Or they could just do fly direct with their A330s... mutter, mutter... kicks can
 
rph99
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:48 am

DEN could probably support it. The 4 United flights are typically pretty full...I assume a majority of that is connections.
 
Dreamflight767
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:06 am

This is why I thought they should of gone for VX. They could of used the smaller 'buses to feed a mini-hub at LAX from cities mentioned above. The smaller 'buses could have also been deployed on some of the smaller west coast markets to HI beating WN.
 
B1168
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:29 am

Just asking. Can DFW be in A321Neo’s reach? The distance is some 3400NM and I do expect load sheds for westbound. Is it worthy?
 
Transpac787
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:34 am

jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.


Do you realize how utterly circular and repetitive your writing style is?? You repeat your same points ad-nauseam - I assume - in an effort to add padding to your post, to make it appear more intelligent or thought-provoking than it actually is.


jplatts wrote:
HA might be able to offer [...] ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii

Rinse.

jplatts wrote:
HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service

Repeat.

jplatts wrote:
HA would be able to connect passengers [...] from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL

Rinse.

jplatts wrote:
if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

Repeat.

jplatts wrote:
Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future?

Rinse. Repeat. Echo. Echo.


jplatts wrote:
HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN

Do you actually think any of this out before posting it, or do you just post simply for posting sake??

I'll briefly indulge this nonsense. Let's say Hawaiian were to codeshare with British Airways, and run HNL-DEN-HNL at similar times United does in order to effectively compete, per your logic.

HNL-DEN (HA) depart 820pm / arrive 700am
DEN-LHR (BA) depart 735pm / arrive 1135am
LHR-DEN (BA) depart 240pm / arrive 530pm
DEN-HNL (HA) depart 940am / arrive 105pm

I'm sure those connection times would be very popular. A connection north of 12 hours on the eastbound, and a connection north of 16 hours (and an overnight!) on the westbound. Do you really mean to suggest that Hawaiian would be well-suited to do such a codeshare at ORD, DFW, or DEN?? The flight times are inconvenient at ORD, DFW, and DEN. Why do I keep saying ORD, DFW, and DEN??

mtnwest1979 wrote:
What another pointless thread about absolutely nothing.


I can't help but agree with this, entirely. ORD, DFW, and DEN.
 
Super80DFW
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:37 am

jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.

HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii if (a) HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service and (b) HA enters into a codeshare partnership with one or more European airlines.

HA would be able to connect passengers to Australia and New Zealand from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

HNL-ANC nonstop service could also be added by HA in order to improve competition on the HNL-ANC nonstop route as AS is currently the only airline serving the state of Alaska nonstop from Hawaii. In addition to eliminating an AS monopoly on Alaska to Hawaii nonstop service, HA adding HNL-ANC nonstop service would improve connectivity to the other Hawaiian islands, Australia, and New Zealand from Alaska.

Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future? Are there other destinations in the contiguous U.S. that could be added by HA?


HA doesn't currently fly to ORD, DFW or DEN. HA could fly to ORD, DFW and DEN. Should HA start flying to ORD, DFW, or DEN?
EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
 
roadrunner165
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:02 am

Are the fares that high between Anchorage and Honolulu?

I’ve flown the route almost yearly for the past 5 or 6 years and I don’t find it too outrageous. I also consider the 7500+ Mileage Plan miles I earn round trip into the cost of the ticket - which is enough for a one-way intra Alaska flight. (Ticket purchases on Alaska Airlines credit card, the hotel booked through Alaska’s website, and the actual miles flown)

Needless to say Hawaiian would have their work cut out for them competing with Alaska out of Anchorage. I think a lot of folks use companion tickets for this route as well, since you rarely go on vacation to Hawaii alone!
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:17 am

Super80DFW wrote:
jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.

HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii if (a) HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service and (b) HA enters into a codeshare partnership with one or more European airlines.

HA would be able to connect passengers to Australia and New Zealand from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

HNL-ANC nonstop service could also be added by HA in order to improve competition on the HNL-ANC nonstop route as AS is currently the only airline serving the state of Alaska nonstop from Hawaii. In addition to eliminating an AS monopoly on Alaska to Hawaii nonstop service, HA adding HNL-ANC nonstop service would improve connectivity to the other Hawaiian islands, Australia, and New Zealand from Alaska.

Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future? Are there other destinations in the contiguous U.S. that could be added by HA?


HA doesn't currently fly to ORD, DFW or DEN. HA could fly to ORD, DFW and DEN. Should HA start flying to ORD, DFW, or DEN?


Darn, I bet the HA route planners are hitting themselves in the forehead right now. Now why didn’t they think of flying to ORD, DFW, or DEN?
 
Boof02671
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:44 am

HA already flies to JFK and BOS, nothing is stopping them to codeshare from this cities. They do codeshare with B6 and it’s only a matter of time till B6 flies to Europe.

There is a reason why HA doesn’t fly to certain US cities, there is lack of demand which leads to lack of making money, you can say the same why there aren’t HNL to Europe flights.
 
Pbb152
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:16 am

Super80DFW wrote:
jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.

HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii if (a) HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service and (b) HA enters into a codeshare partnership with one or more European airlines.

HA would be able to connect passengers to Australia and New Zealand from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

HNL-ANC nonstop service could also be added by HA in order to improve competition on the HNL-ANC nonstop route as AS is currently the only airline serving the state of Alaska nonstop from Hawaii. In addition to eliminating an AS monopoly on Alaska to Hawaii nonstop service, HA adding HNL-ANC nonstop service would improve connectivity to the other Hawaiian islands, Australia, and New Zealand from Alaska.

Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future? Are there other destinations in the contiguous U.S. that could be added by HA?


HA doesn't currently fly to ORD, DFW or DEN. HA could fly to ORD, DFW and DEN. Should HA start flying to ORD, DFW, or DEN?


I bet HA doesn't even realize they don't yet fly to ORD, DFW, and DEN. But there are so many opportunities at ORD, DFW, and DEN. I like ORD, DFW and DEN. Do you like ORD, DFW and DEN? I want to fly to ORD, DFW and DEN.
 
LovePrunesAnet
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:48 am

Transpac787 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.


Do you realize how utterly circular and repetitive your writing style is?? You repeat your same points ad-nauseam - I assume - in an effort to add padding to your post, to make it appear more intelligent or thought-provoking than it actually is.


jplatts wrote:
HA might be able to offer [...] ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii

Rinse.

jplatts wrote:
HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service

Repeat.

jplatts wrote:
HA would be able to connect passengers [...] from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL

Rinse.

jplatts wrote:
if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

Repeat.

jplatts wrote:
Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future?

Rinse. Repeat. Echo. Echo.


jplatts wrote:
HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN

Do you actually think any of this out before posting it, or do you just post simply for posting sake??

I'll briefly indulge this nonsense. Let's say Hawaiian were to codeshare with British Airways, and run HNL-DEN-HNL at similar times United does in order to effectively compete, per your logic.

HNL-DEN (HA) depart 820pm / arrive 700am
DEN-LHR (BA) depart 735pm / arrive 1135am
LHR-DEN (BA) depart 240pm / arrive 530pm
DEN-HNL (HA) depart 940am / arrive 105pm

I'm sure those connection times would be very popular. A connection north of 12 hours on the eastbound, and a connection north of 16 hours (and an overnight!) on the westbound. Do you really mean to suggest that Hawaiian would be well-suited to do such a codeshare at ORD, DFW, or DEN?? The flight times are inconvenient at ORD, DFW, and DEN. Why do I keep saying ORD, DFW, and DEN??

mtnwest1979 wrote:
What another pointless thread about absolutely nothing.


I can't help but agree with this, entirely. ORD, DFW, and DEN.


Ever since finding the Friend/Foe setting for individual posters, I no longer see some of the inane posts that just go ON, and ON, and ON and maybe this and so and so airline COULD do this. I recommend you do the same. A few legendary folks are on mine, and i only see what they post if someone quotes them, otherwise they're invisible.

As far as THIS topic, I'm waiting for the AUS fanboys to pitch AUS as a "focus city" for HA. They're puzzled why DL hasn't added 60 new additional flights in AUS as one of their "insiders" heard. I'm guessing maybe they just need to switch airlines, and why not AUS! lol :lol:
 
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:53 am

Pbb152 wrote:
Super80DFW wrote:
jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.

HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii if (a) HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service and (b) HA enters into a codeshare partnership with one or more European airlines.

HA would be able to connect passengers to Australia and New Zealand from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

HNL-ANC nonstop service could also be added by HA in order to improve competition on the HNL-ANC nonstop route as AS is currently the only airline serving the state of Alaska nonstop from Hawaii. In addition to eliminating an AS monopoly on Alaska to Hawaii nonstop service, HA adding HNL-ANC nonstop service would improve connectivity to the other Hawaiian islands, Australia, and New Zealand from Alaska.

Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future? Are there other destinations in the contiguous U.S. that could be added by HA?


HA doesn't currently fly to ORD, DFW or DEN. HA could fly to ORD, DFW and DEN. Should HA start flying to ORD, DFW, or DEN?


I bet HA doesn't even realize they don't yet fly to ORD, DFW, and DEN. But there are so many opportunities at ORD, DFW, and DEN. I like ORD, DFW and DEN. Do you like ORD, DFW and DEN? I want to fly to ORD, DFW and DEN.

This is crazy talk, HA isn't looking at ORD, DFW and DEN! It's DEN, DFW and ORD, everyone knows that.
OK, joking aside, I have believe Spokane, Boise and Salt Lake City will be on Hawaiian's radar as more 321's come on property. Not for connections to other carriers but rather to skim off passengers from other carriers requiring a connection.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:07 am

And then there is ... oh, I hate to say it .... DTW.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 180 airports, 90 airlines, 75 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,117,006 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
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RWA380
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:50 am

Boof02671 wrote:
HA already flies to JFK and BOS, nothing is stopping them to codeshare from this cities. They do codeshare with B6 and it’s only a matter of time till B6 flies to Europe.

There is a reason why HA doesn’t fly to certain US cities, there is lack of demand which leads to lack of making money, you can say the same why there aren’t HNL to Europe flights.


This is more like it. HA is tied in with B6, if either BOS or JFK see daytime flights from either east coast city, HA will have one-stop online connections to LHR, AMS & CDG. AUS, is one of the few cities that links via LGB via B6 & HA, IIRC it’s a good connection both ways.

HA never has had scheduled service to Europe & you way be thinking of WA that flew HNL-ANC-LGW on DC- 10-10’s & they never made a dime doing it.
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Fargo
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:26 am

LovePrunesAnet wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.


Do you realize how utterly circular and repetitive your writing style is?? You repeat your same points ad-nauseam - I assume - in an effort to add padding to your post, to make it appear more intelligent or thought-provoking than it actually is.


jplatts wrote:
HA might be able to offer [...] ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii

Rinse.

jplatts wrote:
HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service

Repeat.

jplatts wrote:
HA would be able to connect passengers [...] from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL

Rinse.

jplatts wrote:
if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

Repeat.

jplatts wrote:
Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future?

Rinse. Repeat. Echo. Echo.


jplatts wrote:
HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN

Do you actually think any of this out before posting it, or do you just post simply for posting sake??

I'll briefly indulge this nonsense. Let's say Hawaiian were to codeshare with British Airways, and run HNL-DEN-HNL at similar times United does in order to effectively compete, per your logic.

HNL-DEN (HA) depart 820pm / arrive 700am
DEN-LHR (BA) depart 735pm / arrive 1135am
LHR-DEN (BA) depart 240pm / arrive 530pm
DEN-HNL (HA) depart 940am / arrive 105pm

I'm sure those connection times would be very popular. A connection north of 12 hours on the eastbound, and a connection north of 16 hours (and an overnight!) on the westbound. Do you really mean to suggest that Hawaiian would be well-suited to do such a codeshare at ORD, DFW, or DEN?? The flight times are inconvenient at ORD, DFW, and DEN. Why do I keep saying ORD, DFW, and DEN??

mtnwest1979 wrote:
What another pointless thread about absolutely nothing.


I can't help but agree with this, entirely. ORD, DFW, and DEN.


Ever since finding the Friend/Foe setting for individual posters, I no longer see some of the inane posts that just go ON, and ON, and ON and maybe this and so and so airline COULD do this. I recommend you do the same. A few legendary folks are on mine, and i only see what they post if someone quotes them, otherwise they're invisible.

As far as THIS topic, I'm waiting for the AUS fanboys to pitch AUS as a "focus city" for HA. They're puzzled why DL hasn't added 60 new additional flights in AUS as one of their "insiders" heard. I'm guessing maybe they just need to switch airlines, and why not AUS! lol :lol:


You really have an unhealthy fetish with bashing these AUS focus city rumors.........

Give it a freaking rest....... :roll:
 
77H
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:40 am

I don’t understand the obsession with the thought of HA serving DFW, DEN, IAH, ORD, MSP, ATL, DTW, etc. There have been numerous threads containing this idea and it always ends the same.

AA, DL and UA aren’t going to sit idly by and watch HA steal market share out their hubs. HA co-exists at the US3 and AS WC hubs due to sheer demand.

Moreover, HA’s only mainland Codeshare partner B6 has massive route network holes everywhere but the EC and requires back tracking to final destination for everywhere but the New England states.

Perhaps HA should should have put up capital and “invested” in B6’s buyout bid for VX instead of allowing AS to outbid and merge creating an even more formidable WC competitor. A combined B6/VX would have served HA’s interests far better than either airline alone and certainly more than a larger AS.

Buying the 321N is and will continue allowing HA to better compete with the AS and WN’s of the market by rightsizing capacity in the face of competitors with the luxury of feeder networks.

Perhaps HA needs to look to the 319/20N or even the A220-300 which may allow them to open WC markets where performance limitations prevent, or demand is not enough to fill a 189 seat 321N.

Does the 319/20N or A220-300 have better takeoff performance than the CEO versions? Could a A220-300 or 320N in a less dense, more premium configuration (16 first seats like the 321N) pull off a full pax Hawaii flight from places like BUR, SNA? If so, do the superior economics of the NEO line allow for profitability with less revenue generating seats?

77H
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:00 pm

77H wrote:
Could a A220-300 or 320N in a less dense, more premium configuration (16 first seats like the 321N) pull off a full pax Hawaii flight from places like BUR, SNA? If so, do the superior economics of the NEO line allow for profitability with less revenue generating seats?

77H


That's a question worth considering but I would start by asking if BUR, SNA, etc., can drive the front-cabin revenue premiums necessary per inch and per pound to justify lie-flats vs. domestic F (or even coach). Even SEA has struggled to keep lie-flats on NYC transcons.

Denver-Hawaii is a big market that might support more than United's non-stops. I don't know if 321neos have the range from DEN's elevation, and am even more skeptical of hot-day performance. DEN gets an average of 31 days a year with high temps of 90F or hotter. If HA doesn't enter the market, soon enough WN will have a comprehensive network of 1-stops (or thru-flights) from DEN.

The rest of the OP's post is typical airport code salad - a bunch of airport codes listed without much reason (or here, objective fact, like PDEW or average fare levels) why an airport pair makes sense for this specific carrier.
 
jplatts
Topic Author
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:22 pm

Transpac787 wrote:
I'm sure those connection times would be very popular. A connection north of 12 hours on the eastbound, and a connection north of 16 hours (and an overnight!) on the westbound. Do you really mean to suggest that Hawaiian would be well-suited to do such a codeshare at ORD, DFW, or DEN?? The flight times are inconvenient at ORD, DFW, and DEN. Why do I keep saying ORD, DFW, and DEN??

I can't help but agree with this, entirely. ORD, DFW, and DEN.


77H wrote:
I don’t understand the obsession with the thought of HA serving DFW, DEN, IAH, ORD, MSP, ATL, DTW, etc. There have been numerous threads containing this idea and it always ends the same.


DFW is actually in the top 10 domestic destinations traveled to from HNL that isn't currently served by HA (Source: https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1&Airport=HNL). On the other hand, HA already serves several destinations such as LGB, JFK, OAK, SMF, and PDX that are not in BTS's list of top 10 domestic destinations traveled to from HNL.

According to BTS Transtats, the top 10 domestic destinations traveled to from HNL are LAX, OGG, LIH, KOA, SFO, ITO, SEA, LAS, PHX, and DFW. HA already has nonstop service out of HNL to the top 9 domestic destinations traveled to from HNL.

HA adding HNL-DFW nonstop service might be a logical add since DFW is one of the top destinations traveled to from HNL that isn't currently served by HA.

MIflyer12 wrote:
Denver-Hawaii is a big market that might support more than United's non-stops. I don't know if 321neos have the range from DEN's elevation, and am even more skeptical of hot-day performance. DEN gets an average of 31 days a year with high temps of 90F or hotter. If HA doesn't enter the market, soon enough WN will have a comprehensive network of 1-stops (or thru-flights) from DEN.


I agree with your point, and there is also likely some leisure traffic to Colorado from Hawaii. In addition, WN has already added connecting service to DEN and MDW from HNL, and other commentators have already mentioned that HA will attempt to defend market share with WN's entry into the Hawaii market. I have also previously mentioned that WN would be offering connecting service to some domestic destinations east of the West Coast that aren't served by HA from Hawaii.
 
Pbb152
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2000 2:57 pm

Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:29 pm

jplatts wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
I'm sure those connection times would be very popular. A connection north of 12 hours on the eastbound, and a connection north of 16 hours (and an overnight!) on the westbound. Do you really mean to suggest that Hawaiian would be well-suited to do such a codeshare at ORD, DFW, or DEN?? The flight times are inconvenient at ORD, DFW, and DEN. Why do I keep saying ORD, DFW, and DEN??

I can't help but agree with this, entirely. ORD, DFW, and DEN.


77H wrote:
I don’t understand the obsession with the thought of HA serving DFW, DEN, IAH, ORD, MSP, ATL, DTW, etc. There have been numerous threads containing this idea and it always ends the same.


DFW is actually in the top 10 domestic destinations traveled to from HNL that isn't currently served by HA (Source: https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1&Airport=HNL). On the other hand, HA already serves several destinations such as LGB, JFK, OAK, SMF, and PDX that are not in BTS's list of top 10 domestic destinations traveled to from HNL.

According to BTS Transtats, the top 10 domestic destinations traveled to from HNL are LAX, OGG, LIH, KOA, SFO, ITO, SEA, LAS, PHX, and DFW. HA already has nonstop service out of HNL to the top 9 domestic destinations traveled to from HNL.

HA adding HNL-DFW nonstop service might be a logical add since DFW is one of the top destinations traveled to from HNL that isn't currently served by HA.

MIflyer12 wrote:
Denver-Hawaii is a big market that might support more than United's non-stops. I don't know if 321neos have the range from DEN's elevation, and am even more skeptical of hot-day performance. DEN gets an average of 31 days a year with high temps of 90F or hotter. If HA doesn't enter the market, soon enough WN will have a comprehensive network of 1-stops (or thru-flights) from DEN.


I agree with your point, and there is also likely some leisure traffic to Colorado from Hawaii. In addition, WN has already added connecting service to DEN and MDW from HNL, and other commentators have already mentioned that HA will attempt to defend market share with WN's entry into the Hawaii market. I have also previously mentioned that WN would be offering connecting service to some domestic destinations east of the West Coast that aren't served by HA from Hawaii.


Do you think if HA started ORD, DFW and DEN that they would really serve ORD, DFW and DEN if they started ORD, DFW and DEN? That is the real question.
 
tphuang
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:33 pm

What are the top places that HI people want to go to that's not currently served by HA? I don't know the answer to that, but maybe that's a good place to start. I can't see how going into DEN/DFW/IAH/MSP/ATL could possibly work. Maybe ORD could work at certain point of the year? Maybe IAD also?

either way, HA is in a lot of trouble once WN's HI flights fully ramp up.
 
Pbb152
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:36 pm

tphuang wrote:
What are the top places that HI people want to go to that's not currently served by HA? I don't know the answer to that, but maybe that's a good place to start. I can't see how going into DEN/DFW/IAH/MSP/ATL could possibly work. Maybe ORD could work at certain point of the year? Maybe IAD also?

either way, HA is in a lot of trouble once WN's HI flights fully ramp up.


Yes, but what about DTW? That would print money for HA. And if HA would serve ORD, DFW and DEN from DTW............head explodes!
 
Boof02671
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:42 pm

AA has a mega hub at DFW, and they have two 777s a day to HNL, HA would not be successful out of DFW.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:36 pm

Transpac787 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.


Do you realize how utterly circular and repetitive your writing style is?? You repeat your same points ad-nauseam - I assume - in an effort to add padding to your post, to make it appear more intelligent or thought-provoking than it actually is.


jplatts wrote:
HA might be able to offer [...] ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii

Rinse.

jplatts wrote:
HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service

Repeat.

jplatts wrote:
HA would be able to connect passengers [...] from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL

Rinse.

jplatts wrote:
if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

Repeat.

jplatts wrote:
Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future?

Rinse. Repeat. Echo. Echo.


jplatts wrote:
HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN

Do you actually think any of this out before posting it, or do you just post simply for posting sake??

I'll briefly indulge this nonsense. Let's say Hawaiian were to codeshare with British Airways, and run HNL-DEN-HNL at similar times United does in order to effectively compete, per your logic.

HNL-DEN (HA) depart 820pm / arrive 700am
DEN-LHR (BA) depart 735pm / arrive 1135am
LHR-DEN (BA) depart 240pm / arrive 530pm
DEN-HNL (HA) depart 940am / arrive 105pm

I'm sure those connection times would be very popular. A connection north of 12 hours on the eastbound, and a connection north of 16 hours (and an overnight!) on the westbound. Do you really mean to suggest that Hawaiian would be well-suited to do such a codeshare at ORD, DFW, or DEN?? The flight times are inconvenient at ORD, DFW, and DEN. Why do I keep saying ORD, DFW, and DEN??

mtnwest1979 wrote:
What another pointless thread about absolutely nothing.


I can't help but agree with this, entirely. ORD, DFW, and DEN.


Do you enjoy insulting fellow a.netters? What a sad post yours is!
 
Ishrion
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm

AA flies 2x daily to HNL and 2x OGG sometimes and they fly to KOA from DFW. They used to fly directly to LIH.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:28 pm

LovePrunesAnet wrote:
As far as THIS topic, I'm waiting for the AUS fanboys to pitch AUS as a "focus city" for HA. They're puzzled why DL hasn't added 60 new additional flights in AUS as one of their "insiders" heard. I'm guessing maybe they just need to switch airlines, and why not AUS! lol :lol:

I doubt they are puzzled considering they probably all know that their terminal in AUS is pretty close to capacity, even with the new extension opening. Just seems like a desperate attempt on your part to take a jab at something that has nothing to do about THIS topic.
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Planes4you
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:59 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
AA has a mega hub at DFW, and they have two 777s a day to HNL, HA would not be successful out of DFW.
Theres tons of demand for Hawaii HA could easily do seasonal service to DFW.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 719
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:00 pm

jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.

HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii if (a) HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service and (b) HA enters into a codeshare partnership with one or more European airlines.

HA would be able to connect passengers to Australia and New Zealand from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

HNL-ANC nonstop service could also be added by HA in order to improve competition on the HNL-ANC nonstop route as AS is currently the only airline serving the state of Alaska nonstop from Hawaii. In addition to eliminating an AS monopoly on Alaska to Hawaii nonstop service, HA adding HNL-ANC nonstop service would improve connectivity to the other Hawaiian islands, Australia, and New Zealand from Alaska.

Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future? Are there other destinations in the contiguous U.S. that could be added by HA?


To the original poster: I understand your question, and I'm going to use this as a teachable moment about your topic.

Great Truth #1 in the airline business: a full plane doesn't equal profit. Just because you can fill the plane with discounted seats doesn't mean you should. You are going after YIELD, which is the maximum amount of money you can "squeeze" out of your customers. Don't look just at PDEW - Passengers Daily Each Way - look at the fares those people are currently paying. What are the yields like? Is it business traffic or is it VFR (Visiting Friends and Relatives)?

Great Truth #2: When the numbers show that you can successfully attract premium-fare passengers to a route, then you consider starting it. British Airways, Lufthansa, and Japan Air Lines are not in San Diego because of the tourist market looking for discounted airfares to Europe and Asia - they are here because there is business (premium) demand between San Diego and Europe/Asia, and enough of it that it doesn't poach the LAX market up the road.

Great Truth #3: If you're going to fly into someone's fortress hub, you'd better have your David versus Goliath plan ready. AA at DFW and MIA, UA at DEN and EWR, DL at ATL and MSP would be, to put it mildly, suicidal for Hawaiian. Why? Because these cities - and many of the connections they can offer from their hubs - are filled to the brim with loyal frequent fliers, and if Hawaiian were to try to start service at any of these airports, the majors would respond by trashing yields until HA pulled away in retreat. Because they can. And they will. And unless you have a strategy to deal with that, you're going to be nothing but a tasty little morsel gobbled up by the big airline without so much as a second thought.

In the U.S., Hawaiian has its market fairly well figured out. The markets for which Hawaiian can compete are well represented, with further expansion simply being too far away as well as already covered. California (plus Las Vegas), Arizona, Oregon, and Washington have their major cities covered by HA. SLC is covered by DL, DEN by UA, and so on and so forth.

You asked a legitimate question, and I hope this comes across as completely neutral and informative. No arguments from me, no name-calling, no "do a search next time" - only facts.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:02 pm

Planes4you wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
AA has a mega hub at DFW, and they have two 777s a day to HNL, HA would not be successful out of DFW.
Theres tons of demand for Hawaii HA could easily do seasonal service to DFW.

HA has zero feed at DFW.

You all think every unserved route is a money maker.

Don’t you think HA would be serving it already?
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:03 pm

Pbb152 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
What are the top places that HI people want to go to that's not currently served by HA? I don't know the answer to that, but maybe that's a good place to start. I can't see how going into DEN/DFW/IAH/MSP/ATL could possibly work. Maybe ORD could work at certain point of the year? Maybe IAD also?

either way, HA is in a lot of trouble once WN's HI flights fully ramp up.


Yes, but what about DTW? That would print money for HA. And if HA would serve ORD, DFW and DEN from DTW............head explodes!


DL has already committed to DTW-HNL. And if that ends up being a bust, HA will avoid adding that route.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
Planes4you
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:39 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
AA has a mega hub at DFW, and they have two 777s a day to HNL, HA would not be successful out of DFW.
Theres tons of demand for Hawaii HA could easily do seasonal service to DFW.

HA has zero feed at DFW.

You all think every unserved route is a money maker.

Don’t you think HA would be serving it already?
They had plans to fly to dfw a few years back but AA added another route
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 23
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:43 pm

I feel like the neo should open up some smaller airports that normally wouldn’t be able to support Hawaii service like RNO, SBA, etc
 
nine4nine
Posts: 471
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:08 pm

How is LGB working out for them. Anyone have insight or numbers on this?
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dfwjim1
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:08 pm

In all seriousness I wonder if the Freano,CA metro area could be a possible market for HA and its A321s?
 
lostsound
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:19 pm

I recall an article a while back saying HA is interested in serving Burbank with an A321 NEO but no route announcement has been made yet.
Hopefully they're still considering this as it's such a convenient airport as opposed to LAX and I've been meaning to dart out to Hawaii since moving
to the LA area.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 766
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:31 pm

What I think will happen is that HA will continue to evaluate smaller markets for their 321s. In California alone, one could look at Burbank (as mentioned), Ontario, maybe even San Bernadino if the economy out there remains good. Maybe a place like Flagstaff? They'd likely be looking at airports far enough from the major hubs that getting to them would be so hard for passengers that traveling out of their smaller local airport would be far preferable. On the other hand, there would need to be enough of a population base to justify the services on at least a seasonal basis. That's going to be the hard part, in my unscientific view, striking the right balance between going far afield to underserved smallish markets and getting enough pax traffix to justify it. Time will tell...
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:38 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
What I think will happen is that HA will continue to evaluate smaller markets for their 321s. In California alone, one could look at Burbank (as mentioned).

I would rule BUR out because of the A321's very poor runway performance, unless it has been significantly improved on the Neo version. ONT is certainly realistic.
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nine4nine
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:40 pm

lostsound wrote:
I recall an article a while back saying HA is interested in serving Burbank with an A321 NEO but no route announcement has been made yet.
Hopefully they're still considering this as it's such a convenient airport as opposed to LAX and I've been meaning to dart out to Hawaii since moving
to the LA area.



I heard this would be announced Q3 or Q4 as most of the 321 are currently filling the void of the 763 retirements. Once additional frames come online expect this to happen albeit with very minimal payload restrictions due to runway/terrain issues. This would be a very good yielding route with zero competition and the lowest facilities operating cost in the LA area. Also should have zero issues with filling premium seats. It would be wise to get a foothold in the market as well before WN introduces the MAX7 and would be very likely to add Hawaii from BUR.

AQ ran decent loads with great yields when they did OGG and HNL especially. I remember trying to book on multiple trips and they were consistently sold out. Had to go to LAX instead :(
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TWA772LR
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:16 pm

I believe the A319neo would actually make sense for HA to do more p2p from the west to the islands. Its the perfect blend of range and capacity and performance.
When wasn't America great?


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Judge1310
Posts: 303
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:28 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.

HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii if (a) HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service and (b) HA enters into a codeshare partnership with one or more European airlines.

HA would be able to connect passengers to Australia and New Zealand from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.

HNL-ANC nonstop service could also be added by HA in order to improve competition on the HNL-ANC nonstop route as AS is currently the only airline serving the state of Alaska nonstop from Hawaii. In addition to eliminating an AS monopoly on Alaska to Hawaii nonstop service, HA adding HNL-ANC nonstop service would improve connectivity to the other Hawaiian islands, Australia, and New Zealand from Alaska.

Will HNL-ANC, HNL-ORD, HNL-DFW, or HNL-DEN nonstop service be added by HA in the near future? Are there other destinations in the contiguous U.S. that could be added by HA?


To the original poster: I understand your question, and I'm going to use this as a teachable moment about your topic.

Great Truth #1 in the airline business: a full plane doesn't equal profit. Just because you can fill the plane with discounted seats doesn't mean you should. You are going after YIELD, which is the maximum amount of money you can "squeeze" out of your customers. Don't look just at PDEW - Passengers Daily Each Way - look at the fares those people are currently paying. What are the yields like? Is it business traffic or is it VFR (Visiting Friends and Relatives)?

Great Truth #2: When the numbers show that you can successfully attract premium-fare passengers to a route, then you consider starting it. British Airways, Lufthansa, and Japan Air Lines are not in San Diego because of the tourist market looking for discounted airfares to Europe and Asia - they are here because there is business (premium) demand between San Diego and Europe/Asia, and enough of it that it doesn't poach the LAX market up the road.

Great Truth #3: If you're going to fly into someone's fortress hub, you'd better have your David versus Goliath plan ready. AA at DFW and MIA, UA at DEN and EWR, DL at ATL and MSP would be, to put it mildly, suicidal for Hawaiian. Why? Because these cities - and many of the connections they can offer from their hubs - are filled to the brim with loyal frequent fliers, and if Hawaiian were to try to start service at any of these airports, the majors would respond by trashing yields until HA pulled away in retreat. Because they can. And they will. And unless you have a strategy to deal with that, you're going to be nothing but a tasty little morsel gobbled up by the big airline without so much as a second thought.

In the U.S., Hawaiian has its market fairly well figured out. The markets for which Hawaiian can compete are well represented, with further expansion simply being too far away as well as already covered. California (plus Las Vegas), Arizona, Oregon, and Washington have their major cities covered by HA. SLC is covered by DL, DEN by UA, and so on and so forth.

You asked a legitimate question, and I hope this comes across as completely neutral and informative. No arguments from me, no name-calling, no "do a search next time" - only facts.


Although I agree with the other posters, I must say, you've offered a beautiful response to the OP. Bravo! :bigthumbsup: :checkmark:

I just hope that the OP considers your thoughtful reply before the next post... :crossfingers:
 
tphuang
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:30 pm

For all the talk of adding capacity to secondary markets out of HI, keep in mind that a lot of this traffic is fluid. For example, adding LGB-HNL affected HA's yield in La Basin as a whole. And maybe that's one approach they will take. More A321NEO and less capacity at LAX but more flights to secondary airports like LGB/ONT. There is a lot of capacity added in California recently. I'm not sure more flights to Cali is the right approach for trying to achieve higher yields.
 
777PHX
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:44 pm

jplatts wrote:
HA could add service to additional destinations on the U.S. mainland such as ORD, DFW, and DEN in order to defend market share in Hawaii.

HA might be able to offer connections onto transatlantic flights to Europe at ORD, DFW, or DEN from Hawaii if (a) HA adds HNL-DFW, HNL-ORD, or HNL-DEN nonstop service and (b) HA enters into a codeshare partnership with one or more European airlines.


The problem is, most Hawaii-CONUS flights, save some bound for the west coast, are typically redeyes that arrive early in the morning. Most European flights depart early evening from the midwest. That's at least a 12+ hour layover.

HA would be able to connect passengers to Australia and New Zealand from ORD, DFW, and DEN through HNL if HA adds nonstop service to HNL from ORD, DFW, and DEN.


And the problem with this is that south pacific bound HA flights usually leave late morning. A connection from ORD or DFW would have to leave at an absurdly early time to be able to make that connection.

At any rate, I suspect the number of mainland passengers willing to connect in HNL for SYD, BNE or AKL is miniscule. I suspect most people would rather take a direct flight from CONUS where possible.
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:48 pm

I am pulling for HA to try DEN-HNL at some point when they have the equipment to do it. Even though UA is entrenched in this market, I believe the DEN metroplex would support a HA weekly or twice weekly flight to HNL. United's fares are pretty expensive; and HA's entry would bring them down for sure. Hawaiian has a good cabin product for certain. That and reasonable fares would be a winner.

Frontier 14
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:14 pm

tphuang wrote:
For all the talk of adding capacity to secondary markets out of HI, keep in mind that a lot of this traffic is fluid. For example, adding LGB-HNL affected HA's yield in La Basin as a whole. And maybe that's one approach they will take. More A321NEO and less capacity at LAX but more flights to secondary airports like LGB/ONT. There is a lot of capacity added in California recently. I'm not sure more flights to Cali is the right approach for trying to achieve higher yields.


I'd think there's a great opportunity to be had flying ONTHNL using an A321NEO before WN gets in there. You'd get all the draw from PSP and surrounding areas, plus everything close by that wants an LAX alternative, like San Bernardino, Riverside, etc.

Of course let's not forget there's always ORD, DFW, or DEN... :duck:
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:18 pm

HA could codeshare to Europe today if they wanted to, via LAX. Virgin Atlantic is already a HawaiianMiles partner. Connections are a little on the long side but they’re not unreasonable:

HA10 HNL-LAX 0800-1630
VS24 LAX-LHR 2100-1515
VS7 LHR-LAX 0920-1230
HA9 LAX-HNL 1810-2100

I imagine other options with other airlines might be possible too. My point being HA wouldn’t need to add a destination further east in order to offer codeshare connections to Europe. Even without a codeshare, HawaiianMiles award tickets on VS are offered.
 
zm093
Posts: 17
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:22 pm

Would HNL-IAH be considered a long shot?
 
737max8
Posts: 505
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:02 pm

zm093 wrote:
Would HNL-IAH be considered a long shot?


Probably more so then ORD, DFW, or DEN. The OP makes a compelling argument for ORD, DFW, or DEN. Just in case you didn't know, Hawaiian doesn't serve IAH just like they don't serve ORD, DFW, or DEN and IAH is not the same airport as ORD, DFW, or DEN.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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EK77WNH
Posts: 132
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:34 am

Both BOS and JFK have morning BA flights to LHR. The inbound Hawaiian to BOS arriving at 05:50am I think would allow someone to get on the BA 238 2.5 hours later.
(Formerly ChrisNH)
 
jplatts
Topic Author
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Re: Further expansion opportunities for HA in the contiguous U.S. and Alaska - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
Maybe IAD also?


HNL-IAD or HNL-BWI nonstop service could be added by HA in order to provide easier access to Washington, DC from Hawaii. There is some government travel between HNL and DC with all 4 of Hawaii's members of Congress having offices on the island of Oahu, with Honolulu being the capital of the state of Hawaii, and with there being a significant military presence in both Oahu and the DC area.

While AA has a hub at DCA, AA will not add DCA-HNL nonstop service due to DCA perimeter restrictions. HNL is also further from DCA than most of Europe and South America, and even GRU (in Brazil) and LED (in Russia) are closer to DCA than HNL is.

Is HNL-WAS an underserved route, or is the demand for HNL-WAS covered by the UA HNL-IAD nonstop route and existing connecting options?

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