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Polot wrote:Nothing interesting about the timing. With a state visit to France order announcements are to be expected.
eamondzhang wrote:Polot wrote:Nothing interesting about the timing. With a state visit to France order announcements are to be expected.
One thing though is that not every state visits result in orders, and not all orders are announced during state visits (granted for China probably 95% of them are), especially since Trump is still very much in the trade war mode and wanted China to buy far more.
Michael
workhorse wrote:Hopefully 350-1000s to replace the 77Ws.
Bricktop wrote:workhorse wrote:Hopefully 350-1000s to replace the 77Ws.
CA's B77W fleet average age is 5 years, so your hope is likely to be in vain.
workhorse wrote:Bricktop wrote:workhorse wrote:Hopefully 350-1000s to replace the 77Ws.
CA's B77W fleet average age is 5 years, so your hope is likely to be in vain.
They could be relegated to domestic routes where there is a need to increase capacity without clogging the airspace and replaced by 350-1000s on long haul.
chonetsao wrote:workhorse wrote:Bricktop wrote:CA's B77W fleet average age is 5 years, so your hope is likely to be in vain.
They could be relegated to domestic routes where there is a need to increase capacity without clogging the airspace and replaced by 350-1000s on long haul.
Not a chance.
Air China has unlimited state resource but they are not stupid. B77W is their work horse for long haul high capacity route, no way to replace them with A35K.
Air China frequently use B748 on route it needed capacity. And they have priority from clogged air space from PEK. So it is not their concern. Plus all VIP travelling domestic is most likely to be on Air China, thus even higher priority when air space is clogged.
If there is any orders it will be A359. The original order was 10 which is too small a fleet. Air China is likely to order A359 to replace leased A330 and older A332. Air China is planning to release more A332 to its subsidiaries in Chengdu and Hangzhou for secondary city expansion. So the new A359 would be handy to be used by Beijing base for long haul aircraft replacement.
workhorse wrote:chonetsao wrote:workhorse wrote:
They could be relegated to domestic routes where there is a need to increase capacity without clogging the airspace and replaced by 350-1000s on long haul.
Not a chance.
Air China has unlimited state resource but they are not stupid. B77W is their work horse for long haul high capacity route, no way to replace them with A35K.
Air China frequently use B748 on route it needed capacity. And they have priority from clogged air space from PEK. So it is not their concern. Plus all VIP travelling domestic is most likely to be on Air China, thus even higher priority when air space is clogged.
If there is any orders it will be A359. The original order was 10 which is too small a fleet. Air China is likely to order A359 to replace leased A330 and older A332. Air China is planning to release more A332 to its subsidiaries in Chengdu and Hangzhou for secondary city expansion. So the new A359 would be handy to be used by Beijing base for long haul aircraft replacement.
The A35K has roughly the same capacity as the 77W in CA's configuration while it burns much less fuel. Also, while it will not be more comfortable seating-wise (Air China is one of the last airline that still has 3-3-3 in most of their 777s), it priduces much less noise.
The 77W, on the other hand, is the biggest passenger airplane currently on sale. It would make a whole lot of sense on domestic routes where there's plenty of growth. It could replace some of the older domestic 330s.
chonetsao wrote:Capacity discipline is high priority with Chinese carriers.
chonetsao wrote:
Air China is likely to keep the 3-3-3 layout with its B77W. So it will not use it as domestic work horse. Air China would convert to 3-4-3 for domestic usage.
And Air China is not going to buy A35K, China is facing a economic downturn pending trade deals. Capacity discipline is high priority with Chinese carriers. Air China is happy with its A359 and it intends to use new A359 to replace A330s.
YangFeng wrote:chonetsao wrote:Capacity discipline is high priority with Chinese carriers.
Really? All I see is a hunt for any route they can get, except maybe for Air China. I agree that the 359 is the likely choice here though.
moyangmm wrote:chonetsao wrote:
Air China is likely to keep the 3-3-3 layout with its B77W. So it will not use it as domestic work horse. Air China would convert to 3-4-3 for domestic usage.
And Air China is not going to buy A35K, China is facing a economic downturn pending trade deals. Capacity discipline is high priority with Chinese carriers. Air China is happy with its A359 and it intends to use new A359 to replace A330s.
CA already has a fleet of high density 77W (36J356Y) that is 3-4-3.
YangFeng wrote:chonetsao wrote:Capacity discipline is high priority with Chinese carriers.
Really? All I see is a hunt for any route they can get, except maybe for Air China. I agree that the 359 is the likely choice here though.
eamondzhang wrote:I found that interesting not only due to the timing with all the Boeing sagas
ericm2031 wrote:eamondzhang wrote:I found that interesting not only due to the timing with all the Boeing sagas
Not sure what "all the Boeing sagas" are, but the MAX would have nothing to do with a widebody order...
ericm2031 wrote:Not sure what "all the Boeing sagas" are, but the MAX would have nothing to do with a widebody order...
hkcanadaexpat wrote:ericm2031 wrote:Not sure what "all the Boeing sagas" are, but the MAX would have nothing to do with a widebody order...
I would think you are unlikely to see a Chinese Boeing widebody order until the trade dispute is resolved. China is likely keeping those orders tight to their chest as a negotiation's tactic.
tphuang wrote:CA's 77W has such a lackluster J product. They really need to up their game with either a cabin refresh or putting some A350s on these flagship routes. They've got to have the worst hard product out of the CN3. They will keep getting bottom of the barrel fares on J cabin if they don't do something.
EChid wrote:I've found it interesting that we've seen some Chinese carriers finally pulling back on routes, capacity, and expansion. CA cancelled PVG/MEL service a few months ago citing competition (MU also flies the route). My sense is that CA is ceding a lot of PVG traffic to MU these days, especially given MU's more competitive hard product.
chonetsao wrote:workhorse wrote:chonetsao wrote:
Not a chance.
Air China has unlimited state resource but they are not stupid. B77W is their work horse for long haul high capacity route, no way to replace them with A35K.
Air China frequently use B748 on route it needed capacity. And they have priority from clogged air space from PEK. So it is not their concern. Plus all VIP travelling domestic is most likely to be on Air China, thus even higher priority when air space is clogged.
If there is any orders it will be A359. The original order was 10 which is too small a fleet. Air China is likely to order A359 to replace leased A330 and older A332. Air China is planning to release more A332 to its subsidiaries in Chengdu and Hangzhou for secondary city expansion. So the new A359 would be handy to be used by Beijing base for long haul aircraft replacement.
The A35K has roughly the same capacity as the 77W in CA's configuration while it burns much less fuel. Also, while it will not be more comfortable seating-wise (Air China is one of the last airline that still has 3-3-3 in most of their 777s), it priduces much less noise.
The 77W, on the other hand, is the biggest passenger airplane currently on sale. It would make a whole lot of sense on domestic routes where there's plenty of growth. It could replace some of the older domestic 330s.
It does not matter what A35K is for or what B77W is for. It also does not matter what the potential A35K or B77W has. It only matters what Air China intends to do with its B77W. Air China bought B77W for its long haul high capacity route. It did not buy B77W for domestic runs. Yes Air China is using B77W for domestic routes between Intercontinental missions. But Air China use B77W as the predominant long haul high capacity route flagship planes.
Air China is likely to keep the 3-3-3 layout with its B77W. So it will not use it as domestic work horse. Air China would convert to 3-4-3 for domestic usage.
And Air China is not going to buy A35K, China is facing a economic downturn pending trade deals. Capacity discipline is high priority with Chinese carriers. Air China is happy with its A359 and it intends to use new A359 to replace A330s.
It really does not matter how good A35K is. It matters how Air China intends to use its planes and what capacity it wants.
mdavies06 wrote:The purchase of Airbus and Boeing jets by China are all to do with politics and need to rebalance the trade deficits. There is nothing right now to stop China ordering from both Airbus and Boeing, on both WB and NB. The trade dispute is unlikely to be resolved for months if not years, either. Besides, China has trade disputes with the EU too just not in the same scale to the US.
hkcanadaexpat wrote:ericm2031 wrote:Not sure what "all the Boeing sagas" are, but the MAX would have nothing to do with a widebody order...
I would think you are unlikely to see a Chinese Boeing widebody order until the trade dispute is resolved. China is likely keeping those orders tight to their chest as a negotiation's tactic.