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FSDan
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:33 pm

AlexBrewster03 wrote:
With all of AA cuts to JFK, their route network from JFK is starting to look similar to DLs at BOS. A few “important” international routes and an array of domestic destinations


DL at BOS is already bigger than AA at JFK (certainly in terms of flights and destinations, probably not in terms of ASMs).

However, I do think the April cuts highlighted here are temporary, and related to the 7M8 groundings.
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GSP psgr
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:57 pm

FSDan wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA drops ORD-YOW/TUS/JAN and IAH-CRW/CAE/LEX. Beginning to wonder if all that talk about beefing up the domestic hubs only applies to DEN.


It makes sense to cut ORD-TUS in summer. There's no indication here that the route won't come back in October, which is when the high season for visiting Tucson begins in earnest. ORD-JAN is a bit of an odd cut given that it's a 2x daily route, but it looks like that one is actually back after summer. ORD-YOW is a truly odd cut if it's permanent (from 3x daily to 0?). If there's a pilot shortage at the regionals, I wouldn't be surprised if ORD-YOW and ORD-JAN are related to that.


Maybe UA is handing over YOW-ORD to AC metal as a way of getting some spare capacity?
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:13 am

LHUSA wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA drops ORD-YOW/TUS/JAN and IAH-CRW/CAE/LEX. Beginning to wonder if all that talk about beefing up the domestic hubs only applies to DEN.


What a joke, eh? Not a way to build a hub.


From what I've heard, most of these cuts released today should be temporary - due to pilot shortage at one of the regional carriers (can't remember which one).


If true, why zero them out? Why not keep at least a least a daily flight to YOW? Currently there are three daily with two CRJ's and One E75. If there is a pilot shortage just fly one daily E75. Same with JAN. They currently have two daily with two CRJ's. Just knock it down to one, if this is temporary, spread the cuts to some other stations. TUS is understandable as that in my opinion should be more seasonal anyway. Not too many looking to fly to Tuscon in the summer and while the university is out of session. Not flying to the capital of Canada or the capital of Mississippi from the third largest city in the USA though is kind of mind boggling.

Same goes for IAH. Zeroing out three capital cities (I count LEX because it is the closet airport to Frankfort, the capital of KY) from the fourth largest city in USA is equally mind boggling.

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

What's up with AV cutting BOS and ORD? I had not heard about this. Wasn't BOS a fairly new market for them?


Difficult times for Avianca in Colombia right now...

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-avian ... KKCN1QW2XT
 
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compensateme
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:16 am

afcjets wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
enilria wrote:
AA ATL-LAX APR 3>2[3]
AA BDL-LAX APR 0.9>0.2[0.9]
AA EWR-PHX APR 3>2[4]
AA IAD-LAX APR 1.7>0.9[1.5]
AA LAX-RDU APR 1.8>1.1[1.9]
AA ORD-PDX APR 1.0>0.4[1.0]

Quite a few AA transcon cuts as well.


AA has lost market share system wide, it wouldn't surprise me if they are losing even more on transcon because of their new uncomfortable seats. AA is great for flights under 2-3 hours.


Only a very, very small percentage of the traveling public could tell you the difference in comfort and amentiites between airlines, certainly not enough to stimulate such reductions. And the people that matter to AA, anyway, aren’t sitting in those seats.
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compensateme
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:31 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA drops ORD-YOW/TUS/JAN and IAH-CRW/CAE/LEX. Beginning to wonder if all that talk about beefing up the domestic hubs only applies to DEN.


No other airline has been agressive as UA in adding domestic capacity in the past several years, growing its hubs to second-tier/third-tier markets. By most metrics, UA’s added more capacity than AA+DL combined. Alas, it’s not surprising that UA has retreated from some of this capacity, even if it’s from another hub. DL went through this several years ago, when many legacy NW “Heartland” markets were added to ATL and subsequently dropped or heavily reduced to DTW & MSP.

What’s surprising is the number of a.nets who don’t understand/ignore simple market economics and cling to the notion that UA’s going to add 20%+ capacity to its trunk hubs in the next few years, taking comments and statements out of context to justify their argument. I wrote it before and I’ll write it again: UA’s domestic growth will be much slower going forward than it has been. Perhaps even slower now that it appears a recession is likely soon.
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LAX772LR
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:17 am

enilria wrote:
**EW FRA-LAS NOV 0>0.4[0] DEC 0>0.5[0]

Be interesting to see whether DE digs in and fights, or lets an LH subsidiary once again drive it off a US route.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BigGSFO
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:28 am

AlexBrewster03 wrote:
With all of AA cuts to JFK, their route network from JFK is starting to look similar to DLs at BOS. A few “important” international routes and an array of domestic destinations

AA's cuts (mostly at JFK) are for April only, related to the 737 MAX issues. I suspect they will be reinstated.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:40 am

compensateme wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA drops ORD-YOW/TUS/JAN and IAH-CRW/CAE/LEX. Beginning to wonder if all that talk about beefing up the domestic hubs only applies to DEN.


No other airline has been agressive as UA in adding domestic capacity in the past several years, growing its hubs to second-tier/third-tier markets. By most metrics, UA’s added more capacity than AA+DL combined. Alas, it’s not surprising that UA has retreated from some of this capacity, even if it’s from another hub. DL went through this several years ago, when many legacy NW “Heartland” markets were added to ATL and subsequently dropped or heavily reduced to DTW & MSP.

What’s surprising is the number of a.nets who don’t understand/ignore simple market economics and cling to the notion that UA’s going to add 20%+ capacity to its trunk hubs in the next few years, taking comments and statements out of context to justify their argument. I wrote it before and I’ll write it again: UA’s domestic growth will be much slower going forward than it has been. Perhaps even slower now that it appears a recession is likely soon.


From ORD and DEN yes. From IAH absolutely not.
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Rdh3e
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:30 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:

You (and many on anet) seem to be of the opinion that being the capitol of something magically creates some market necessity for the service.

Clearly there is some market between the places but not nearly what many folks would think.
Last edited by Rdh3e on Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Dominion301
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:30 am

FSDan wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA drops ORD-YOW/TUS/JAN and IAH-CRW/CAE/LEX. Beginning to wonder if all that talk about beefing up the domestic hubs only applies to DEN.


IAH-CRW/CAE/LEX were some of the longest 50-seater routes left in the system. I wouldn't be surprised if these are permanent cuts as UA probably feels they don't warrant a capacity increase to an E70/75.

It makes sense to cut ORD-TUS in summer. There's no indication here that the route won't come back in October, which is when the high season for visiting Tucson begins in earnest. ORD-JAN is a bit of an odd cut given that it's a 2x daily route, but it looks like that one is actually back after summer. ORD-YOW is a truly odd cut if it's permanent (from 3x daily to 0?). If there's a pilot shortage at the regionals, I wouldn't be surprised if ORD-YOW and ORD-JAN are related to that.

I wouldn't fret too much about the IAH or ORD hubs... Both have more flights (including more mainline), more destinations, and more capacity than they've had in years.


Even if it’s pilot shortage-related, why would you abruptly go from 3 to 0 right at the start of peak season on a route where you’re the only nonstop service around? Currently (until June 5th) YOW-ORD sees 2x Expressjet ERJ and 1x Skywest E75. Then boom on 06Jun all nonstops disappear from UA’s website.

How often do flights disappear outright from an airline’s inventory when a filing error occurs? The reason why I think it (and most of the others) might be a filing error is that on AC’s website YOW-ORD UA codeshare flights are still showing up beyond 05Jun albeit erratically with frequencies varying from 0x to 3x and with no day-of-week consistency. Few of (if any) of these zeroing outs make any sense. Why would UA continue to fly YQB-ORD and not the mich larger YOW. It makes no sense whatsoever.
 
n7371f
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:06 am

TUS is a tough go for non traditional markets starting in May and running through October. That said, UA has run TUS-ORD daily on SkyWest year-round with UA mainline running in the heavy sun run months. It does create an issue for loyal UA fliers trying to go beyond DEN, ORD, IAH as the frequency and seats drop significantly after May to the point that it's easiest to fly DL via ATL to anywhere east of Mississippi.
 
IPFreely
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:46 am

n7371f wrote:
May to the point that it's easiest to fly DL via ATL to anywhere east of Mississippi.


It must not be that easy or Delta would have more than an irrelevant 7% market share in TUS.
 
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compensateme
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:08 am

IPFreely wrote:
n7371f wrote:
May to the point that it's easiest to fly DL via ATL to anywhere east of Mississippi.


It must not be that easy or Delta would have more than an irrelevant 7% market share in TUS.


Did you make that number up :)? In 2018, DL had 15% market share at TUS, and nearly 8% off all TUS passengers traveled to or through ATL. With UA withdrawing from ORD, it’s probable ATL — which has steadily been gaining on ORD in recent years — will surpass it as the largest destination east of the Mississippi. Just skimming some data, I bet DL will have close to 50% market share to destinations in the East — hardly irrevelant.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:55 am

If the UA cuts are pilot related then look to see what next week has in store. It's possible that routes are being moved between regionals and slipped through the cracks when the old flight numbers were deleted and the new ones not loaded yet.
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TTailedTiger
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:11 am

BigGSFO wrote:
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
With all of AA cuts to JFK, their route network from JFK is starting to look similar to DLs at BOS. A few “important” international routes and an array of domestic destinations

AA's cuts (mostly at JFK) are for April only, related to the 737 MAX issues. I suspect they will be reinstated.


Of all the flights they could have cut, it's quite telling that they came from JFK. It isn't good no matter how you try and spin it.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:16 am

1836Sam wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA drops ORD-YOW/TUS/JAN and IAH-CRW/CAE/LEX. Beginning to wonder if all that talk about beefing up the domestic hubs only applies to DEN.


What a joke, eh? Not a way to build a hub.


Build a hub? They’re both 500 flight/day hubs. Pretty sure some marginal cuts from ORD to the southwest and IAH to the Midwest/Southeast has close to zero impact on building those airports.
 
csweet
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:20 pm

n7371f wrote:
TUS is a tough go for non traditional markets starting in May and running through October. That said, UA has run TUS-ORD daily on SkyWest year-round with UA mainline running in the heavy sun run months. It does create an issue for loyal UA fliers trying to go beyond DEN, ORD, IAH as the frequency and seats drop significantly after May to the point that it's easiest to fly DL via ATL to anywhere east of Mississippi.


First CLT, now ORD. Who is next to leave the TUS market?
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:37 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
Thanks as always. AA at JFK is overall just sad to look at with all the reductions going on.



Only on A.Net is making money sad and losing money grand and the sign of great aviation expertise.
 
FSDan
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:01 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
ORD-YOW is a truly odd cut if it's permanent (from 3x daily to 0?). If there's a pilot shortage at the regionals, I wouldn't be surprised if ORD-YOW and ORD-JAN are related to that.


Even if it’s pilot shortage-related, why would you abruptly go from 3 to 0 right at the start of peak season on a route where you’re the only nonstop service around? Currently (until June 5th) YOW-ORD sees 2x Expressjet ERJ and 1x Skywest E75. Then boom on 06Jun all nonstops disappear from UA’s website.

How often do flights disappear outright from an airline’s inventory when a filing error occurs? The reason why I think it (and most of the others) might be a filing error is that on AC’s website YOW-ORD UA codeshare flights are still showing up beyond 05Jun albeit erratically with frequencies varying from 0x to 3x and with no day-of-week consistency. Few of (if any) of these zeroing outs make any sense. Why would UA continue to fly YQB-ORD and not the mich larger YOW. It makes no sense whatsoever.


I agree that it's a totally-out-of-left-field cut. Pilot shortage is the only thing besides filing error that makes any sense to me, but you're right that even in that case it seems like an odd choice of route to cut. Let's see if it comes back next week...
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KCaviator
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:03 pm

LHUSA wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA drops ORD-YOW/TUS/JAN and IAH-CRW/CAE/LEX. Beginning to wonder if all that talk about beefing up the domestic hubs only applies to DEN.


What a joke, eh? Not a way to build a hub.


From what I've heard, most of these cuts released today should be temporary - due to pilot shortage at one of the regional carriers (can't remember which one).


ExpressJet. They’ve been cancelling multiple flights per day due to crew availability.
 
Dominion301
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:10 pm

FSDan wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
ORD-YOW is a truly odd cut if it's permanent (from 3x daily to 0?). If there's a pilot shortage at the regionals, I wouldn't be surprised if ORD-YOW and ORD-JAN are related to that.


Even if it’s pilot shortage-related, why would you abruptly go from 3 to 0 right at the start of peak season on a route where you’re the only nonstop service around? Currently (until June 5th) YOW-ORD sees 2x Expressjet ERJ and 1x Skywest E75. Then boom on 06Jun all nonstops disappear from UA’s website.

How often do flights disappear outright from an airline’s inventory when a filing error occurs? The reason why I think it (and most of the others) might be a filing error is that on AC’s website YOW-ORD UA codeshare flights are still showing up beyond 05Jun albeit erratically with frequencies varying from 0x to 3x and with no day-of-week consistency. Few of (if any) of these zeroing outs make any sense. Why would UA continue to fly YQB-ORD and not the mich larger YOW. It makes no sense whatsoever.


I agree that it's a totally-out-of-left-field cut. Pilot shortage is the only thing besides filing error that makes any sense to me, but you're right that even in that case it seems like an odd choice of route to cut. Let's see if it comes back next week...


You'd think UA would just cut YOW-ORD to 2x and then cut 1 or 2 frequencies on other ERJ/E75 ORD routes of a similar stage length. They claim they'll be reinstating YOW-ORD in March 2020...but UA's booking window is currently only until February 2020.
 
FSDan
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:31 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
They claim they'll be reinstating YOW-ORD in March 2020...but UA's booking window is currently only until February 2020.


Where are they claiming that?
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1836Sam
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:35 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA drops ORD-YOW/TUS/JAN and IAH-CRW/CAE/LEX. Beginning to wonder if all that talk about beefing up the domestic hubs only applies to DEN.


What a joke, eh? Not a way to build a hub.


Build a hub? They’re both 500 flight/day hubs. Pretty sure some marginal cuts from ORD to the southwest and IAH to the Midwest/Southeast has close to zero impact on building those airports.


Well tell Scott Kirby, he's the one talking about strengthening midcontinent hubs. You don't strengthen hubs by removing spokes.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:08 pm

1836Sam wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

What a joke, eh? Not a way to build a hub.


Build a hub? They’re both 500 flight/day hubs. Pretty sure some marginal cuts from ORD to the southwest and IAH to the Midwest/Southeast has close to zero impact on building those airports.


Well tell Scott Kirby, he's the one talking about strengthening midcontinent hubs. You don't strengthen hubs by removing spokes.


That is a bit of hyperbole. You can’t further build a hub flying routes that don’t work financially. You also can’t expect 100% of all spokes added to work out either because there isn’t enough demand or you’re better covered out of another hub.
 
1836Sam
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:35 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

Build a hub? They’re both 500 flight/day hubs. Pretty sure some marginal cuts from ORD to the southwest and IAH to the Midwest/Southeast has close to zero impact on building those airports.


Well tell Scott Kirby, he's the one talking about strengthening midcontinent hubs. You don't strengthen hubs by removing spokes.


That is a bit of hyperbole. You can’t further build a hub flying routes that don’t work financially. You also can’t expect 100% of all spokes added to work out either because there isn’t enough demand or you’re better covered out of another hub.


None of these were added spokes. The IAH spokes all predated the merger (which was 10 years ago). If it was DAY or CAK, sure.

We'll see if they return as suggested by others due to operational reasons.
 
FSDan
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:19 pm

1836Sam wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

Well tell Scott Kirby, he's the one talking about strengthening midcontinent hubs. You don't strengthen hubs by removing spokes.


That is a bit of hyperbole. You can’t further build a hub flying routes that don’t work financially. You also can’t expect 100% of all spokes added to work out either because there isn’t enough demand or you’re better covered out of another hub.


None of these were added spokes. The IAH spokes all predated the merger (which was 10 years ago). If it was DAY or CAK, sure.

We'll see if they return as suggested by others due to operational reasons.


I don't know that IAH-LEX/CAE/CRW were cut due to operational reasons... In my opinion, UA is probably trying to (finally) minimize the number of 2+ hour routes they fly on 50-seaters. These three are some of the longest ER4 routes left out of the IAH hub, and probably are too thin to support an upgauge to a CR7/E70/E75. It's sad to see a few novel routes get cut from IAH, but I'd be more than happy to never fly any of these on the current equipment...
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1836Sam
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:30 pm

FSDan wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

That is a bit of hyperbole. You can’t further build a hub flying routes that don’t work financially. You also can’t expect 100% of all spokes added to work out either because there isn’t enough demand or you’re better covered out of another hub.


None of these were added spokes. The IAH spokes all predated the merger (which was 10 years ago). If it was DAY or CAK, sure.

We'll see if they return as suggested by others due to operational reasons.


I don't know that IAH-LEX/CAE/CRW were cut due to operational reasons... In my opinion, UA is probably trying to (finally) minimize the number of 2+ hour routes they fly on 50-seaters. These three are some of the longest ER4 routes left out of the IAH hub, and probably are too thin to support an upgauge to a CR7/E70/E75. It's sad to see a few novel routes get cut from IAH, but I'd be more than happy to never fly any of these on the current equipment...


I think you're giving UA way too much credit, but perhaps! :rotfl:
 
FSDan
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:54 pm

1836Sam wrote:
FSDan wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

None of these were added spokes. The IAH spokes all predated the merger (which was 10 years ago). If it was DAY or CAK, sure.

We'll see if they return as suggested by others due to operational reasons.


I don't know that IAH-LEX/CAE/CRW were cut due to operational reasons... In my opinion, UA is probably trying to (finally) minimize the number of 2+ hour routes they fly on 50-seaters. These three are some of the longest ER4 routes left out of the IAH hub, and probably are too thin to support an upgauge to a CR7/E70/E75. It's sad to see a few novel routes get cut from IAH, but I'd be more than happy to never fly any of these on the current equipment...


I think you're giving UA way too much credit, but perhaps! :rotfl:


It's a trend that's already been in progress for a few years. The ER4s have disappeared from IAH-YYZ, IAH-RIC, IAH-ORF, etc. and this summer will also be gone from IAH-CLE, IAH-CAK, IAH-CMH, and IAH-DAY. Bit by bit, the longest ER4 routes from IAH are being upgauged to large RJs or are getting cut.
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YYZORD
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:23 am

Wait is IAH-YYZ all becoming mainline?

FSDan wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I don't know that IAH-LEX/CAE/CRW were cut due to operational reasons... In my opinion, UA is probably trying to (finally) minimize the number of 2+ hour routes they fly on 50-seaters. These three are some of the longest ER4 routes left out of the IAH hub, and probably are too thin to support an upgauge to a CR7/E70/E75. It's sad to see a few novel routes get cut from IAH, but I'd be more than happy to never fly any of these on the current equipment...


I think you're giving UA way too much credit, but perhaps! :rotfl:


It's a trend that's already been in progress for a few years. The ER4s have disappeared from IAH-YYZ, IAH-RIC, IAH-ORF, etc. and this summer will also be gone from IAH-CLE, IAH-CAK, IAH-CMH, and IAH-DAY. Bit by bit, the longest ER4 routes from IAH are being upgauged to large RJs or are getting cut.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6194
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:39 am

FSDan wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

That is a bit of hyperbole. You can’t further build a hub flying routes that don’t work financially. You also can’t expect 100% of all spokes added to work out either because there isn’t enough demand or you’re better covered out of another hub.


None of these were added spokes. The IAH spokes all predated the merger (which was 10 years ago). If it was DAY or CAK, sure.

We'll see if they return as suggested by others due to operational reasons.


I don't know that IAH-LEX/CAE/CRW were cut due to operational reasons... In my opinion, UA is probably trying to (finally) minimize the number of 2+ hour routes they fly on 50-seaters. These three are some of the longest ER4 routes left out of the IAH hub, and probably are too thin to support an upgauge to a CR7/E70/E75. It's sad to see a few novel routes get cut from IAH, but I'd be more than happy to never fly any of these on the current equipment...


This is probably the correct answer. UA probably asked itself if these routes could support bigger equipment and if not they’d go.

I’d probably also throw out that, at least with IAH, UA cuts smaller cities that are within two hours drive of bigger ones and the upgage the bigger one. For example they cut CID and then Upgaged DSM. I would imagine IAH-SDF/GSP will get more frequency or bigger equipment as a result just like DSM did.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
sagechan
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:55 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

None of these were added spokes. The IAH spokes all predated the merger (which was 10 years ago). If it was DAY or CAK, sure.

We'll see if they return as suggested by others due to operational reasons.


I don't know that IAH-LEX/CAE/CRW were cut due to operational reasons... In my opinion, UA is probably trying to (finally) minimize the number of 2+ hour routes they fly on 50-seaters. These three are some of the longest ER4 routes left out of the IAH hub, and probably are too thin to support an upgauge to a CR7/E70/E75. It's sad to see a few novel routes get cut from IAH, but I'd be more than happy to never fly any of these on the current equipment...


This is probably the correct answer. UA probably asked itself if these routes could support bigger equipment and if not they’d go.

I’d probably also throw out that, at least with IAH, UA cuts smaller cities that are within two hours drive of bigger ones and the upgage the bigger one. For example they cut CID and then Upgaged DSM. I would imagine IAH-SDF/GSP will get more frequency or bigger equipment as a result just like DSM did.


That seems mostly true but doesn't apply to CRW. Only larger airport around 2 hours away is slightly larger LEX, they get cut too. CVG, CMH & PIT are all 3-3.5 hour drive away and CLT 4 hours. If permanent, this leaves UA with only 3x to ORD on a normal day from CRW as IAD was cut in Feb.
717, 733, 734, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA, AS
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:35 pm

sagechan wrote:

That seems mostly true but doesn't apply to CRW. Only larger airport around 2 hours away is slightly larger LEX, they get cut too. CVG, CMH & PIT are all 3-3.5 hour drive away and CLT 4 hours. If permanent, this leaves UA with only 3x to ORD on a normal day from CRW as IAD was cut in Feb.


Some of our posters with CRW insight can probably elaborate upon this, but I'd always heard IAH-CRW was heavily energy industry-focused. Is a decline in related business travel partly to blame?
 
dfw88
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:54 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
sagechan wrote:

That seems mostly true but doesn't apply to CRW. Only larger airport around 2 hours away is slightly larger LEX, they get cut too. CVG, CMH & PIT are all 3-3.5 hour drive away and CLT 4 hours. If permanent, this leaves UA with only 3x to ORD on a normal day from CRW as IAD was cut in Feb.


Some of our posters with CRW insight can probably elaborate upon this, but I'd always heard IAH-CRW was heavily energy industry-focused. Is a decline in related business travel partly to blame?


Not actually energy per se, but chemicals, plastics in particular (slightly splitting hairs there, I know). Dow Chemical has large facilities in both Charleston and south of Houston, and several other chemical companies have a presence in both. However, the chemical presence in Charleston has been on an overall decline for years (my family left when my dad's chemical engineering job was moved to... Houston), so who knows how much traffic is still going back and forth. I had been told as well that that route was supported by corporate contracts, so if the presence of those companies in Charleston shrinks below a certain amount it's easy to see those contracts becoming untenable. I have no information that such is what actually happened here, though it does seem logical.
 
Dominion301
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Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:58 pm

FSDan wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
They claim they'll be reinstating YOW-ORD in March 2020...but UA's booking window is currently only until February 2020.


Where are they claiming that?


https://www.obj.ca/article/united-airli ... wa-chicago

Representatives for both United Airlines and the Ottawa International Airport Authority confirmed Monday morning that the U.S. airline is temporarily suspending its service between YOW and Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport beginning June 6. United's spokesperson said the airline expects to resume service in March 2020.
 
sagechan
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:58 pm

dfw88 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
sagechan wrote:

That seems mostly true but doesn't apply to CRW. Only larger airport around 2 hours away is slightly larger LEX, they get cut too. CVG, CMH & PIT are all 3-3.5 hour drive away and CLT 4 hours. If permanent, this leaves UA with only 3x to ORD on a normal day from CRW as IAD was cut in Feb.


Some of our posters with CRW insight can probably elaborate upon this, but I'd always heard IAH-CRW was heavily energy industry-focused. Is a decline in related business travel partly to blame?


Not actually energy per se, but chemicals, plastics in particular (slightly splitting hairs there, I know). Dow Chemical has large facilities in both Charleston and south of Houston, and several other chemical companies have a presence in both. However, the chemical presence in Charleston has been on an overall decline for years (my family left when my dad's chemical engineering job was moved to... Houston), so who knows how much traffic is still going back and forth. I had been told as well that that route was supported by corporate contracts, so if the presence of those companies in Charleston shrinks below a certain amount it's easy to see those contracts becoming untenable. I have no information that such is what actually happened here, though it does seem logical.


In addition to that there used to be a strong adminstrative and regional HQ preseance from the O&G companies in CRW. Most of those were consolidated in IAH or OKC a few years ago so now it's mostly just travel for operations/engineering specialists.

I'm curious of this helps or hurts AA relaunching DFW from CRW. Raja recently stated we were on the list probably for 2020 but cited IAH as a reason to compete with UA. DFW is a much larger connecting hub than IAH so I'd hope it would help as it would then be the only westward flight from CRW.
717, 733, 734, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA, AS
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14626
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:20 pm

sagechan wrote:
dfw88 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

Some of our posters with CRW insight can probably elaborate upon this, but I'd always heard IAH-CRW was heavily energy industry-focused. Is a decline in related business travel partly to blame?


Not actually energy per se, but chemicals, plastics in particular (slightly splitting hairs there, I know). Dow Chemical has large facilities in both Charleston and south of Houston, and several other chemical companies have a presence in both. However, the chemical presence in Charleston has been on an overall decline for years (my family left when my dad's chemical engineering job was moved to... Houston), so who knows how much traffic is still going back and forth. I had been told as well that that route was supported by corporate contracts, so if the presence of those companies in Charleston shrinks below a certain amount it's easy to see those contracts becoming untenable. I have no information that such is what actually happened here, though it does seem logical.


In addition to that there used to be a strong adminstrative and regional HQ preseance from the O&G companies in CRW. Most of those were consolidated in IAH or OKC a few years ago so now it's mostly just travel for operations/engineering specialists.

I'm curious of this helps or hurts AA relaunching DFW from CRW. Raja recently stated we were on the list probably for 2020 but cited IAH as a reason to compete with UA. DFW is a much larger connecting hub than IAH so I'd hope it would help as it would then be the only westward flight from CRW.


AA through the legacy of US is also a lot stronger at CRW than is UA. Like many smaller airports in the southeast, it was basically DL and US country before consolidation.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
sagechan
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:30 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
sagechan wrote:
dfw88 wrote:

Not actually energy per se, but chemicals, plastics in particular (slightly splitting hairs there, I know). Dow Chemical has large facilities in both Charleston and south of Houston, and several other chemical companies have a presence in both. However, the chemical presence in Charleston has been on an overall decline for years (my family left when my dad's chemical engineering job was moved to... Houston), so who knows how much traffic is still going back and forth. I had been told as well that that route was supported by corporate contracts, so if the presence of those companies in Charleston shrinks below a certain amount it's easy to see those contracts becoming untenable. I have no information that such is what actually happened here, though it does seem logical.


In addition to that there used to be a strong adminstrative and regional HQ preseance from the O&G companies in CRW. Most of those were consolidated in IAH or OKC a few years ago so now it's mostly just travel for operations/engineering specialists.

I'm curious of this helps or hurts AA relaunching DFW from CRW. Raja recently stated we were on the list probably for 2020 but cited IAH as a reason to compete with UA. DFW is a much larger connecting hub than IAH so I'd hope it would help as it would then be the only westward flight from CRW.


AA through the legacy of US is also a lot stronger at CRW than is UA. Like many smaller airports in the southeast, it was basically DL and US country before consolidation.


Yeah after this cut in June will be:
UA ORD 3x CR2
DL ATL 1x 737-700 4x CR2
AA CLT 1x CR7, 4x CR2
AA DCA 1x CR2
AA PHL 1x CR2
NK 2 weekly MYR A319

DL usually runs slightly ahead in PAX
717, 733, 734, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA, AS
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 630
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:31 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
Thanks as always for my Sunday morning reading. Sad to see IAH-CRW get cut. Maybe this opens the door further for AA to bring back DFW-CRW.


Wonder if next week we will see IAD-CRW added.
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 630
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:36 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

None of these were added spokes. The IAH spokes all predated the merger (which was 10 years ago). If it was DAY or CAK, sure.

We'll see if they return as suggested by others due to operational reasons.


I don't know that IAH-LEX/CAE/CRW were cut due to operational reasons... In my opinion, UA is probably trying to (finally) minimize the number of 2+ hour routes they fly on 50-seaters. These three are some of the longest ER4 routes left out of the IAH hub, and probably are too thin to support an upgauge to a CR7/E70/E75. It's sad to see a few novel routes get cut from IAH, but I'd be more than happy to never fly any of these on the current equipment...


This is probably the correct answer. UA probably asked itself if these routes could support bigger equipment and if not they’d go.

I’d probably also throw out that, at least with IAH, UA cuts smaller cities that are within two hours drive of bigger ones and the upgage the bigger one. For example they cut CID and then Upgaged DSM. I would imagine IAH-SDF/GSP will get more frequency or bigger equipment as a result just like DSM did.


Could these routes switch to IAD? I believe all of these would be under 2 hours flight time. I assume they were not EAS cities so they could be cut.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14626
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:10 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
Thanks as always for my Sunday morning reading. Sad to see IAH-CRW get cut. Maybe this opens the door further for AA to bring back DFW-CRW.


Wonder if next week we will see IAD-CRW added.


When was IAD-CRW cut? I remember flying it on C5 Dashes in 2014 or so.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:04 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I don't know that IAH-LEX/CAE/CRW were cut due to operational reasons... In my opinion, UA is probably trying to (finally) minimize the number of 2+ hour routes they fly on 50-seaters. These three are some of the longest ER4 routes left out of the IAH hub, and probably are too thin to support an upgauge to a CR7/E70/E75. It's sad to see a few novel routes get cut from IAH, but I'd be more than happy to never fly any of these on the current equipment...


This is probably the correct answer. UA probably asked itself if these routes could support bigger equipment and if not they’d go.

I’d probably also throw out that, at least with IAH, UA cuts smaller cities that are within two hours drive of bigger ones and the upgage the bigger one. For example they cut CID and then Upgaged DSM. I would imagine IAH-SDF/GSP will get more frequency or bigger equipment as a result just like DSM did.


Could these routes switch to IAD? I believe all of these would be under 2 hours flight time. I assume they were not EAS cities so they could be cut.


IAD-LEX and IAD-CAE already exist. IAD-CRW has been flown in the past, but isn't flown currently.

In any case, IAD and IAH are in opposite directions from all three of those markets, so would facilitate entirely different connections.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:07 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
They claim they'll be reinstating YOW-ORD in March 2020...but UA's booking window is currently only until February 2020.


Where are they claiming that?


https://www.obj.ca/article/united-airli ... wa-chicago

Representatives for both United Airlines and the Ottawa International Airport Authority confirmed Monday morning that the U.S. airline is temporarily suspending its service between YOW and Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport beginning June 6. United's spokesperson said the airline expects to resume service in March 2020.


Thanks! It's still a bit of a head-scratcher to me that ORD-YOW was the route selected for chopping, and that UA thought it better to entirely axe a 3x daily route rather than cutting a frequency here and there across several other destinations... I'm sure they have their reasons (perhaps one being that they expect they'll be able to reclaim their current share of nonstop traffic when they resume the route vs losing it to AA).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:09 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Wait is IAH-YYZ all becoming mainline?


Looks like UA will be flying 1x E75 + 1x 319 + 1x 73G on IAH-YYZ this summer.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
sagechan
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:45 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
Thanks as always for my Sunday morning reading. Sad to see IAH-CRW get cut. Maybe this opens the door further for AA to bring back DFW-CRW.


Wonder if next week we will see IAD-CRW added.


When was IAD-CRW cut? I remember flying it on C5 Dashes in 2014 or so.


February 19
717, 733, 734, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA, AS
 
altairF28
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:41 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:48 am

First of all let me preface this by saying I am neither a fanboy nor a hater of any particular airline. I'm asking this out of a genuine lack of knowledge.

AA and UA have both made close-in schedule adjustments that showed up this week which are widely being attributed to the grounding of the MAX8/MAX9. WN didn't. Does WN have more slack in their fleet, were their cuts made too late for this week's capture or are they maintaining their entire schedule even though they know they won't have enough capacity to operate all of it and planning to cancel flights day-by-day due to "lack of an available aircraft"?
Por favor mantegnase alejado de las puertas
 
UALifer
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:35 am

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:35 am

altairF28 wrote:
First of all let me preface this by saying I am neither a fanboy nor a hater of any particular airline. I'm asking this out of a genuine lack of knowledge.

AA and UA have both made close-in schedule adjustments that showed up this week which are widely being attributed to the grounding of the MAX8/MAX9. WN didn't. Does WN have more slack in their fleet, were their cuts made too late for this week's capture or are they maintaining their entire schedule even though they know they won't have enough capacity to operate all of it and planning to cancel flights day-by-day due to "lack of an available aircraft"?


WN is only canceling flights 5 days out. I’m guessing those cancelations potentially count against WN’s cancelation rate that is reported to the DOT, while AA’s cancelations don’t since they’re canceling farther out. However, WN has more flexibility to immediately start service back up if the plane is ungrounded quickly. UA isn’t planning any cancelations for the time being.

http://fortune.com/2019/03/25/airlines- ... ons-weeks/
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: OAG Changes 3/24/2019:UA Cuts ORD-TUS,IAH-LEX/CRW/CAE;EW Adds LAS;DL Drops YYJ

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:43 am

That E75 route could easily be a 319 or 73G. If they upgraded that to mainline, you'd only have UA express from ORD, EWR, and IAD which makes sense as they are the closest UA hubs from YYZ.

FSDan wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Wait is IAH-YYZ all becoming mainline?


Looks like UA will be flying 1x E75 + 1x 319 + 1x 73G on IAH-YYZ this summer.

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