https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Air-C ... 6/Jetlines

Pilots are being hired and aircraft arrived from NZ. Looks like this might happen. Anyone got any pictures of planes ??

Given how tough the startup environment is, you’d think they’d try just a tad harder on the name...

Are we actually sure that the planes have arrived? I haven't seen any news of this.

While I am very sceptical about Jetlines' chances of getting going, I feel like having actual planes on property might put the chances at over 50%! The other big hurdle being actual certification, of course.

JL

This airline has become exhausting to hear about. I don't know how anyone in their right mind could book travel with them and have absolutely any confidence that the service would actually operate. In the years that we have been hearing about them they have changed their minds time and time again about absolutely everything, from their base to their route map to the type of aircraft they will operate. I will be shocked if we ever see an aircraft in a Canada Jetlines livery actually go into the air.

Does anyone know when (or if) they are gonna get their first aircraft? I hope this doesn’t turn out to be Canada’s Baltia....

Delivery of Airbus A320 MSNs 2594 and 2663 are expected by early second quarter of 2019. Both aircraft are currently with Air New Zealand and are approaching end of lease service with the airline.

https://backend.otcmarkets.com/otcapi/c ... 47/content

CANADA JETLINES OPERATIONS LTD. ACL 2018-033 e (Canada Jetlines 2594) One Airbus A320-200 MSN 2594 (Scheduled Delivery: On or about March 14, 2019)

Blueknows wrote:

https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Air-Carrier-PCC-Profile/3846/Jetlines

Pilots are being hired and aircraft arrived from NZ. Looks like this might happen. Anyone got any pictures of planes ??

Flight attendants are being hired.

No airplanes means no pilots.

CANADA JETLINES OPERATIONS LTD. ACL 2018-034 a (Canada Jetlines 2663) One Airbus A320-200 MSN 2663 (Scheduled Delivery: On or about April 26, 2019

No aircraft has arrived and no pilots have been hired. Both are lies, just like everything surrounding this airline for the last 5 years.

With Swoop, and Flair, can Canada have another airline? I don't want to poo-poo on anyone's dreams but the country is what, 33m people? Even if not the stack of lies some would suggest, and really full of best intentions, I don't think it can work.

Blueknows wrote:

Delivery of Airbus A320 MSNs 2594 and 2663 are expected by early second quarter of 2019. Both aircraft are currently with Air New Zealand and are approaching end of lease service with the airline.

https://backend.otcmarkets.com/otcapi/c ... 47/content

CANADA JETLINES OPERATIONS LTD. ACL 2018-033 e (Canada Jetlines 2594) One Airbus A320-200 MSN 2594 (Scheduled Delivery: On or about March 14, 2019)

That corresponds to ZK-OJN and ZK-OJO respectively.

It appears OJN operated it's last revenue flight with NZ 03/Feb and is conducting a test flight out of CHC as I type.

OJO last operated a revenue flight 17/Mar and appears to be stored in CHC.

hz747300 wrote:

With Swoop, and Flair, can Canada have another airline? I don't want to poo-poo on anyone's dreams but the country is what, 33m people? Even if not the stack of lies some would suggest, and really full of best intentions, I don't think it can work.

We’re up to a little over 37 million now.

Dominion301 wrote:

hz747300 wrote:

With Swoop, and Flair, can Canada have another airline? I don't want to poo-poo on anyone's dreams but the country is what, 33m people? Even if not the stack of lies some would suggest, and really full of best intentions, I don't think it can work.

We’re up to a little over 37 million now.

That many anti-Trumpers went North of the 49th Parallel? Wow, I remember winning a bet in 2010 that Canada's population was 32m. That's a lot of immigration to absorb. Anyhoo, I stand by my original argument, that with Swoop, Flair, coming online, does Canada need another airline? I think not.

I wondering when the aircraft will fly to YVR

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKOJN

Looks like they are doing more test flights today. Word is AC should be in Canada by APRIL

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:

Does anyone know when (or if) they are gonna get their first aircraft? I hope this doesn’t turn out to be Canada’s Baltia....

Well, you figure Canada Jetlines and Baltia already have a codeshare along with EA v.3.0, so they all have that going for them ... which is nice.

Blueknows wrote:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKOJN

Looks like they are doing more test flights today. Word is AC should be in Canada by APRIL

Well AC has been in Canada since April 10/1937

With the MAX grounding this could be a great time to launch a new Airline; especially if the grounding lasts over the Summer.

AC meaning aircraft not air canada

Blueknows wrote:

AC meaning aircraft not air canada

I was just teasing you!

The aircraft arrival timeline seems to change even in the 12 hours since the first post. Their latest news release notes recently signed agreements for aircraft conversion, other operating needs so....couldn't be anytime soon. The website has nothing about routes but lots of investor information.

When will they start operating? It could be possible for them to lease their planes to AC and start operations when the MAX issues are resolved. Could be a nice payday for them.

You think AC is going to do anything to help a new entrant? These guys are floundering at best, let them drown. You throw them any money whatsoever it could be likened to a lifeline.

If the investment community isn’t backing them, why would a competitor provide them anything?

These guys are your typical sharks. Sucker people into investing and then nicely time press releases to either keep baiting future foolish investors, or keep the fools already invested from walking.

Whether these guys get off the ground or not, they’ll be TU in a blink.

The MAXs will be in the air again way before these guys will be. Their grounding isn’t an open door to this group.

IWMBH wrote:

When will they start operating? It could be possible for them to lease their planes to AC and start operations when the MAX issues are resolved. Could be a nice payday for them.

If AC needed the lift so desperately, you think they’d just go to Jetlines or the leasing company that owns these jets directly and say “give us the lease at a good rate we will take them off your hands.”

And what do you think the lessor would do? Who has a better chance of paying said leases in 6 months time? AC or Jetlines.

I’d like to see the default terms on these leases. They’ll be iron clad. And I imagine pretty onerous.

Ok they are not getting Boeing airplanes. They are leasing 2 used a320 from AERCAP. They are currently operated by NZ. The first should arrive in April. They are doing checks before delivery. Then it had to get painted

sixtyseven wrote:

IWMBH wrote:

When will they start operating? It could be possible for them to lease their planes to AC and start operations when the MAX issues are resolved. Could be a nice payday for them.

If AC needed the lift so desperately, you think they’d just go to Jetlines or the leasing company that owns these jets directly and say “give us the lease at a good rate we will take them off your hands.”

And what do you think the lessor would do? Who has a better chance of paying said leases in 6 months time? AC or Jetlines.

I’d like to see the default terms on these leases. They’ll be iron clad. And I imagine pretty onerous.

You think leasing companies are interested in a lease period of just a couple of months? Look at Air Belgium and BA, AC could wet-lease some aircraft from Jetlines to fill the cap that the MAX problem causes.

IWMBH wrote:

sixtyseven wrote:

IWMBH wrote:

When will they start operating? It could be possible for them to lease their planes to AC and start operations when the MAX issues are resolved. Could be a nice payday for them.

If AC needed the lift so desperately, you think they’d just go to Jetlines or the leasing company that owns these jets directly and say “give us the lease at a good rate we will take them off your hands.”

And what do you think the lessor would do? Who has a better chance of paying said leases in 6 months time? AC or Jetlines.

I’d like to see the default terms on these leases. They’ll be iron clad. And I imagine pretty onerous.

You think leasing companies are interested in a lease period of just a couple of months? Look at Air Belgium and BA, AC could wet-lease some aircraft from Jetlines to fill the cap that the MAX problem causes.

To add to that, lease contracts are usually pretty binding on both the airline, and the lessor. AerCap can't simply yank the airplanes out from under Jetlines so long as Jetlines has met their obligations (payments, etc).

The Jetlines / Air NZ aircraft are a different engine type than AC's A320 fleet and even if they were it's not a simple exerscise to "just" bring an aircraft onto the certificate for a short period of time. While lessors do make it as easy as possible for airlines to add aircraft, it's still a mid-six-figure cost (i.e. $500k ish) for both the lessor and the airline. So to make sense of it you'd need to be talking a few years minimum.

Wet leases are another story of course, and I gather Air Canada has brought in some capacity from Air Transat to fill the gap short-term.

20 bucks says their initial routes will copy Flair and/or Swoop and not actually serve cities without any ULCC service.

Please...please can we stick to facts. The CEO has spoke about routes. He uses to do routes for Mexican ULCC. He was very successful and was asked to replace Lucas Johnson as jetlines CEO. Johnson did routes for alegiant air. He was the one who created the whole PUNTA GORDA airport for them. He left because asked by Dave Nielmen to come work for thus new airline(moxy)

And Air Canada bought planes from WOW because they are going belly up. Swoop is an airline in an airline(bad idea remember Song/Ted). Flair is a charter company trying to change to LCC. They are not on par with ULCC jetlines.

Blueknows wrote:

Swoop is an airline in an airline(bad idea remember Song/Ted).

Swoop is an ultra low cost carrier with point-to-point service (no connections onto WestJet) . It offers fares Fully unbundled, focusing on ancillary revenue.
It’s cost structure is 30-40% lower than mainline.
Song and Ted may have failed in the U.S.A , but one can also note that there are successful segmentation cases. Here are some examples: Rouge for Air Canada, Eurowings to Lufthansa, Jetstar to Qantas, Tigerair to Virgin Australia, Scoot and Silk air to Singapore Airlines, Transavia to KLM. It is not always a bad idea to execute this strategy if done correctly.

From a customers perspective it does look like that. When you look from the business side it sucks. The integrating of seniority and benefits. The cost of operating two different models under one company. Its different in Europe. The demographic and travel market are very different. Europeans travel a lot more then say American's or Canadians. You cant compare the two

They announced in February this year that they will start flying out of YQB in winter 2020 without precising the month or the destination. But it looks as if it is going to be a flight to Florida. YHU should follow in Autumn 2020.

https://www.lapresse.ca/voyage/nouvelle ... loride.php

Does anyone know if they could or they should fly to Gatineau YND instead of Ottawa YOW?

I appreciate it has taken a while to get funding and momentum where they need to be but things do look to be shaping up. Suarez is the real deal having held 7 meaningful roles in building four carriers. That's 7 more roles than the majority of people taking childish jabs in this thread.

Dominion301 wrote:

20 bucks says their initial routes will copy Flair and/or Swoop and not actually serve cities without any ULCC service.

Have they ever said that they would only serve ULCC-less pairs? Where is all this saltiness coming from?

hz747300 wrote:

With Swoop, and Flair, can Canada have another airline? I don't want to poo-poo on anyone's dreams but the country is what, 33m people? Even if not the stack of lies some would suggest, and really full of best intentions, I don't think it can work.

Australia (28M), Malaysia (32M), Saudi Arabia (33M), Morocco (35M) all support more carriers and a bigger breadth of carriers than we have up here.

RANT:
I don't want to partake in the anet=sh*t pile-on, but this site has taken such a nosedive in the last few years it's almost not worth coming to any more. This thread is a prime example of that decline. Lots of jabs and digs but very little sanity checking/thought before things are blurted out.

Micheal Bata left...ow boy who snatched him up? First lukas Johnson CEO went to MOXY..now micheal bata

yowza wrote:

RANT:
I don't want to partake in the anet=sh*t pile-on, but this site has taken such a nosedive in the last few years it's almost not worth coming to any more. This thread is a prime example of that decline. Lots of jabs and digs but very little sanity checking/thought before things are blurted out.

True, but A*Net's atmosphere is only reflecting that of society's today, where someone can go online & piss on anyone--or everyone--& hide behind anonymity. In fact, I think that A*Net has not followed that nose-down approach as steeply as other sites, probably because we all hold aviation in such high regard & want it to do well & succeed. Chalk one up for unity through diversity.

Now, back to the original subject. The investors may do with their money as they will, but I can't help but think that someone needs to get in their faces--the same way one of my dear, departed aunts got in my face once--and asked, "What do you think you're doing?!" OTOH, I can't help but wish them well.

yowza wrote:

I appreciate it has taken a while to get funding and momentum where they need to be but things do look to be shaping up. Suarez is the real deal having held 7 meaningful roles in building four carriers. That's 7 more roles than the majority of people taking childish jabs in this thread.

Dominion301 wrote:

20 bucks says their initial routes will copy Flair and/or Swoop and not actually serve cities without any ULCC service.

Have they ever said that they would only serve ULCC-less pairs? Where is all this saltiness coming from?

hz747300 wrote:

With Swoop, and Flair, can Canada have another airline? I don't want to poo-poo on anyone's dreams but the country is what, 33m people? Even if not the stack of lies some would suggest, and really full of best intentions, I don't think it can work.

Australia (28M), Malaysia (32M), Saudi Arabia (33M), Morocco (35M) all support more carriers and a bigger breadth of carriers than we have up here.

RANT:
I don't want to partake in the anet=sh*t pile-on, but this site has taken such a nosedive in the last few years it's almost not worth coming to any more. This thread is a prime example of that decline. Lots of jabs and digs but very little sanity checking/thought before things are blurted out.

Morocco has more air carriers than Canada .... please educate us further and enlighten us with the details.

Iluvtofly wrote:

yowza wrote:

I appreciate it has taken a while to get funding and momentum where they need to be but things do look to be shaping up. Suarez is the real deal having held 7 meaningful roles in building four carriers. That's 7 more roles than the majority of people taking childish jabs in this thread.

Dominion301 wrote:

20 bucks says their initial routes will copy Flair and/or Swoop and not actually serve cities without any ULCC service.

Have they ever said that they would only serve ULCC-less pairs? Where is all this saltiness coming from?

hz747300 wrote:

With Swoop, and Flair, can Canada have another airline? I don't want to poo-poo on anyone's dreams but the country is what, 33m people? Even if not the stack of lies some would suggest, and really full of best intentions, I don't think it can work.

Australia (28M), Malaysia (32M), Saudi Arabia (33M), Morocco (35M) all support more carriers and a bigger breadth of carriers than we have up here.

RANT:
I don't want to partake in the anet=sh*t pile-on, but this site has taken such a nosedive in the last few years it's almost not worth coming to any more. This thread is a prime example of that decline. Lots of jabs and digs but very little sanity checking/thought before things are blurted out.

Morocco has more air carriers than Canada .... please educate us further and enlighten us with the details.

A few things:
1) Even if I was wrong about Morocco (which I'm not) the point of that statement was to highlight that markets of that size can sustain more carriers than we see in Canada.
2) Notice that I said "support more carriers and a bigger breadth of carriers." At no point did I state that the carriers had to be indigenous. If you evaluate Morocco as a whole, how many players are in the market? With just the European LCC's there are scores of city pairs on offer. Transavia alone serves 10+ destinations to a half dozen places in Europe. That's to say nothing of VY, FR, U2, W6, DY. Then there are all of the legacies in the mix. We don't enjoy anywhere near that breadth here.

YOWza

while I don't doubt their intent? Starting an airline in this day and age is much harder than it was before the majors had all their "express" feeders. In Canada? I'm not so sure. But I might guess it wouldn't be that far off the mark as down here in the lower 48.

cirrusdragoon wrote:

Blueknows wrote:

Swoop is an airline in an airline(bad idea remember Song/Ted).

Swoop is an ultra low cost carrier with point-to-point service (no connections onto WestJet) . It offers fares Fully unbundled, focusing on ancillary revenue.
It’s cost structure is 30-40% lower than mainline.
Song and Ted may have failed in the U.S.A , but one can also note that there are successful segmentation cases. Here are some examples: Rouge for Air Canada, Eurowings to Lufthansa, Jetstar to Qantas, Tigerair to Virgin Australia, Scoot and Silk air to Singapore Airlines, Transavia to KLM. It is not always a bad idea to execute this strategy if done correctly.

I beg to differ. TED did not fail in the USA. The United ALPA Pilots Killed it!! The top pay at TED was 78/84th of a mainline pilot's pay at United. The mainline guys saw that (rightfully) as a threat to try and drive their pay down. (they didn't know then what we know now) Southwest was coming into the Market and United didn't want Southwest on their backs in the SFO-So Cal. So that was the impetus for TED. And? while it was on? It worked! That ALPA saw it as a threat? I don't know. It didn't affect any of us in Maintenance because we had to maintain the airplanes no matter what paint job was on them. So Nobody Drove TED anywhere. TED was an internal KILL. I think TED would have eventually been carted off to a new carrier had ALPA allowed it without a Pilot strike at United. I did see that as a possibility though..
I would bet good money that Song wasn't that far off either.. though Song was primarily 757's.

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How did we get on this. Anyone actually looking at real information

Yowza the one thing you seem to be forgetting is that those countries you cited are all much smaller in land mass with denser populations. As much as I want more choice (I miss Wardair, CP etc) we have to recognize that there are unique challenges to operating in Canada.

Canuck600 wrote:

Yowza the one thing you seem to be forgetting is that those countries you cited are all much smaller in land mass with denser populations. As much as I want more choice (I miss Wardair, CP etc) we have to recognize that there are unique challenges to operating in Canada.

I grant you that we have some unique and stiff challenges to overcome but the Pavlovian “it can never work in Canada” is exhausting because there is a lot more nuance to it than that. For the record Australia is not exactly small and has a lower population density than we do.

YOWza

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the ... 0431213427

If you want to hear it from the CEO JAVIER SUAREZ. Interview from routes america conference this year

One has to remember Jetballs, who've been at this since at least 4Q 2013 and have yet to generate an asm, are publicly traded as a result of a goofy reverse takeover of an obscure Vancouver mining stock.

Does anyone recall reading "Fleecing the Lamb"? Not much has changed over the years with these sorts of stock promoters.

https://www.amazon.com/Fleecing-Lamb-In ... 0888945582

The goal is to pump the stock, so you can safely assume those folks posting flowery statements of how successful Jetballs is going to be one day have a vested interest in doing so.

Because they are publicly traded, they have no choice but to release all material information in a timely fashion, thus becoming the first start up in modern history that has to reveal, at least quarterly, and likely more often, precisely how much cash they have in the bank, and the sources thereof. For every $1 of foreign capital, they basically need $1.01 of domestic capital.

It's easy to fool suckers overseas who are being sold a fabulous fairy tail; it's not so easy selling the concept to sophisticated Cdn investors who have seen what's happened to virtually all the past examples of equity murdering domestic airline startups. Said investors had a visceral reminder this week of what will likely happen to their capital with the failure of the basket case that was WOW.

Jetballs exec team have virtually no experience in the Canadian market and will have the same sort of success there as a previously successful Canadian exec with no experience in Mexico would have, which would be very little. And that's in a market where even a sophisticated highs school student understands that with 150 seats or better, if it doesn't touch GDL or MEX / TLC, don't bother. Having Mexicana going tango uniform in Aug 2010 when the current crop of Mexican ULCC's were still in their baby shoes didn't hurt either. No such luck in Canada.

In other words, it's a tad more complex in Canada.

As for the differences between Canada and the States, perhaps ponder what the US market would look like if you drew a line from the eastern border of Montana south all the way to the Mexican border, (but exclude New Mexico, Hawaii, and Alaska,), and belatedly realized that every one to the west of that line had a mere fraction of the propensity to travel to domestic destination east of that line compared to the travel habits of the rest of the country, and understand why that is the case. Does the term "distinct society" ring a bell?

Then consider that outside one 145 mile sector, there is virtually no scalable "domestic" market to be had. Gatineau - Chicoutimi, anyone?

And when they do travel out side that area, the great majority of that travel was to a city barely 300 miles away, on a route that happened to connect the hubs of the dominant airline, and was the eastern hub of the 2nd largest airline, a country with a total population smaller than the state of California.

Without substantial domestic feed network, trans border / sun will only work during hyper peak times of the year when there is enough spill traffic. Two weeks around Xmas and 3 weeks around the various March school breaks. That's about it. People forget WS had about 40 tails flying domestically in Canada for about 10 years before they attempted a trans border sched. All the newbies think they'll be able to waltz in from the get go and succeed.

Flair tried this winter and they cancelled about half their trans border flying with a couple of weeks notice in February, and they cancelled the remainder of it with a weeks notice a few days ago.

In other words, Flair has pulled the 'chute on virtually all trans border flying, whilst AC and WS, who have substantial domestic feed networks, continue to operate their winter trans border scheds with ridiculously full loads through the end of the traditional sun sched season that runs to April 28th, and in the core sun markets, beyond that.

http://www.avcodes.co.uk/details.asp?ID=28029

Now have code and call sign

Hello CJL

May 31st deadline for the AOC with the partner investor