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ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:14 am

qf2220 wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Re the IFRS comments - I doubt that this is a significant reason. It might be, but I doubt it. Other factors (as probably discussed) are more to blame.

The IFRS changes have been known for some time now, and in reality, in most jurisdictions (at least UK/US/Australia etc) financiers have been capitalising the leases into their calculations anyway. Unless Korea and OZ specifically are different, their banks would have already factored all of the lease debts into their finance calculations.


Not yet. It will be factored from the financial year 2019.


In the financial reports yes, but the financiers should have been doing this for years now.


Ah, yes, you're right, it's been already noted for years.
 
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c933103
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:23 am

behramjee wrote:
My personal opinion is that OZ's financial problems are likely to initially arise from its complex wide body fleet structure which is quite ludicrous whilst thankfully the narrow body fleet revolves solely around the Airbus A320 family only.

The current OZ wide body passenger fleet consists of:

15 A333s + 6 B763s + 8 A359s + 2 B744s + 9 B772ERs + 6 A380s totaling 46 aircraft along with 9 A351s being on order.

OZ has 25 A321NEOs on order starting from 2019 whilst the A351s deliveries commence from 2020-21.

To save on capital costs initially, as well as raise cash, I suggest the following:

a) The A351 deliveries should be deferred to commence from Q2-2021 to save on capital costs.

b) All deliveries of A321NEOs from 2020 onwards should be postponed till 2022 due to the same reason mentioned above.

c) 6 B763s + 2 B744s should be sold off by Q2-2020 latest to raise cash and taken out of the fleet mix to reduce complexity

d) A380s should be sold off starting from Q2-2020 onwards and out of service completely by end of IATA Summer 2021 season i.e. Oct 2021 to save on operating costs as well as raise cash. They are currently used exclusively on FRA, JFK and LAX services.

e) The 15 leased A333 fleet should be renegotiated and not have their contracts renewed beyond Summer 2023.

f) In addition, the existing 7 A320s + 2 A321-100s + 16 A321-200s should be sold off between 2022 and 2023 as each new A321NEO gets delivered.

g) The 9 B772ERs (avg age 13 years) should be sold from 2021 onwards and completed by Q4 2022. Each B772ER should be phased out as each A351 gets delivered in 2022. This will raise cash as well as take out another fleet type from the wide body mix.

In this manner from IATA W23 season, OZ's entire narrow and wide body fleet gets standardized in the below manner:

Narrow body - 25 A321NEOs exclusively seating 180 pax (12J + 168Y)

Wide body - A350 family exclusively (on order 30 firm of which 8 already delivered) + 10 options). To have a commercially viable operation on its long haul + regional route network as well as cater to local cargo market requirements, the break down of the OZ A350 firm order for 30 units should be 16 A359s + 14 A351s (MTOWs).

In this above proposed manner, the fleet mix gets standardized across 2 types of aircraft only versus 7 currently which is totally insane.

If the financial performance of the airline improves in 2022-23, the 10 A350s on option should be renegotiated in the below manner:

a) 5 A350s exchanged for 10 A321NEOs to boost its regional network especially on its highly popular Korea-China/Japan/Vietnam routes

b) The remaining 5 A350s should be converted to the A351-MTOW due to its superior economics on long haul and high demand regional Asian routes.

c) If the options get exercised, the fleet in 2025 would comprise of 35 A321NEOs + 19 A351MTOWs + 16 A359s totaling 70 aircraft.

Please read the entire thread all over again. Also, remember that as stated above all the worst performing OZ routes in term of load factors are all short haul narrow body routes, and that they have also previously stated that (back in early last year) the yield of their narrow body fleet is getting challenged by Chinese and other competitors and their long haul fleet and routes flown by them are performing better in term of yield
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:38 am

behramjee wrote:
My personal opinion is that OZ's financial problems are likely to initially arise from its complex wide body fleet structure which is quite ludicrous whilst thankfully the narrow body fleet revolves solely around the Airbus A320 family only.

As noted many times, OZ's financial problem arises from Kumho Group's ambitious M&A's all of which eventually failed.
OZ itself was still profitable in 2018 overall (although very slightly).

behramjee wrote:
The current OZ wide body passenger fleet consists of:

15 A333s + 6 B763s + 8 A359s + 2 B744s + 9 B772ERs + 6 A380s totaling 46 aircraft along with 9 A351s being on order.

OZ has 25 A321NEOs on order starting from 2019 whilst the A351s deliveries commence from 2020-21.

To save on capital costs initially, as well as raise cash, I suggest the following:

a) The A351 deliveries should be deferred to commence from Q2-2021 to save on capital costs.

b) All deliveries of A321NEOs from 2020 onwards should be postponed till 2022 due to the same reason mentioned above.

c) 6 B763s + 2 B744s should be sold off by Q2-2020 latest to raise cash and taken out of the fleet mix to reduce complexity

d) A380s should be sold off starting from Q2-2020 onwards and out of service completely by end of IATA Summer 2021 season i.e. Oct 2021 to save on operating costs as well as raise cash. They are currently used exclusively on FRA, JFK and LAX services.

e) The 15 leased A333 fleet should be renegotiated and not have their contracts renewed beyond Summer 2023.

f) In addition, the existing 7 A320s + 2 A321-100s + 16 A321-200s should be sold off between 2022 and 2023 as each new A321NEO gets delivered.

g) The 9 B772ERs (avg age 13 years) should be sold from 2021 onwards and completed by Q4 2022. Each B772ER should be phased out as each A351 gets delivered in 2022. This will raise cash as well as take out another fleet type from the wide body mix.

In this manner from IATA W23 season, OZ's entire narrow and wide body fleet gets standardized in the below manner:

Narrow body - 25 A321NEOs exclusively seating 180 pax (12J + 168Y)

Wide body - A350 family exclusively (on order 30 firm of which 8 already delivered) + 10 options). To have a commercially viable operation on its long haul + regional route network as well as cater to local cargo market requirements, the break down of the OZ A350 firm order for 30 units should be 16 A359s + 14 A351s (MTOWs).

In this above proposed manner, the fleet mix gets standardized across 2 types of aircraft only versus 7 currently which is totally insane.

If the financial performance of the airline improves in 2022-23, the 10 A350s on option should be renegotiated in the below manner:

a) 5 A350s exchanged for 10 A321NEOs to boost its regional network especially on its highly popular Korea-China/Japan/Vietnam routes

b) The remaining 5 A350s should be converted to the A351-MTOW due to its superior economics on long haul and high demand regional Asian routes.

c) If the options get exercised, the fleet in 2025 would comprise of 35 A321NEOs + 19 A351MTOWs + 16 A359s totaling 70 aircraft.



a) There's a rumor that OZ doesn't even want them at all. Deferring them also makes sense.

b) Two A321neo's will be delivered from this year. One of them is already at the final assembly line.

c) Makes sense, and one of the 744 is already retiring this year. I don't know where it will go.

d) Who would buy them though? And again, with only 6 A380s, LAX(2X)/FRA/JFK(summer)/SYD(northern winter) works actually well with high load factors.
Keep in mind that S. Korea is heavily restricted by insufficient traffic rights, and OZ can't fly most of the longhaul routes except US for multiple frequencies.

e) I don't get the rationale. 333 is doing fine.

f) Makes sense unless these A321neos will be also given to Air Busan or Air Seoul.

g) Swapping from 772 to 351 will be significant upgauging. I'm afraid that will cause oversupply.
Also, 772/359 mix doesn't seem necessarily bad. The possible reason to retire 772 could be just more 359s.
Especially when the number of seats are very similar (301 vs 311).

Also:
* Using A359 for current A333 routes is possibly overkill in terms of capital cost.
* 14 A351s will cause oversupply and I actually don't see the need for A351 at all.
But I understand you are arguing on the basis of OZ selling off all the A380s. Even then, 9-10 will be enough.
The problem is that A351s will cause undersupply in the trunk routes (FRA/LAX/JFK in summer/SYD in northern winter).
I actually think OZ should increase the number of seats on its A380s for these markets.

Then:
a, b) Yes, OZ needs widebodies in those regional routes. GMP-HND/PEK/SHA routes are heavily restricted by traffic rights and A321neos will definitely cause undersupply.
While they can adopt A359 regional, they can also just keep using A333s. A351s may be too much especially with high MTOWs, and I don't know if bilaterals and the airports will allow A351s.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:31 am

With Jet Airways gone (or on the brink as there is discussion about investors coming in) this would be a second terrible blow for aviation this year. Asiana in its existence has built itself a name in the industry and a lot of people like their service.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:21 am

"Asiana Airlines appears set to receive a liquidity injection of W1.6 trillion ($1.4 billion) from creditors, led by state-run Korea Development Bank (KDB).

Korea’s Ministry of Economy and Finance confirms that creditors plan to buy W500 billion in Asiana perpetual bonds, and extend the embattled carrier a KRW800 billion credit line.

Plans appear to be at a preliminary stage. It is not yet clear where the additional W300 billion will come from."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... na-457623/
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:08 am

kitplane01 wrote:
"Asiana Airlines appears set to receive a liquidity injection of W1.6 trillion ($1.4 billion) from creditors, led by state-run Korea Development Bank (KDB).

Korea’s Ministry of Economy and Finance confirms that creditors plan to buy W500 billion in Asiana perpetual bonds, and extend the embattled carrier a KRW800 billion credit line.

Plans appear to be at a preliminary stage. It is not yet clear where the additional W300 billion will come from."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... na-457623/


Thanks for the article in English. At least Flightglobal cares about this.
kitplane01 wrote:
"Plans appear to be at a preliminary stage. It is not yet clear where the additional W300 billion will come from."

-> It will be standby letter of credit.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:58 am

Asiana will suspend ICN-UUS (Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, Russia) and ICN-KHV (Khabarovsk, Russia) from September,
and ICN-ORD at the end of October.

http://www.asiatime.co.kr/news/articleV ... xno=241635 (Article in Korean)

Chicago really? I assume it will be temporary during the winter schedule, but this is indeed shocking.
 
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United787
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:50 pm

ORD? Maybe UA can use that as an opportunity to start ORD-ICN?

Also, wondering if their SFO crash plays into their financial woes? I still can’t get over the fact they crashed a perfectly good working airplane in broad daylight in excellent weather. And then seemed to blame Boeing rather than use it as an opportunity to correct glaring training issues. I would never step foot on an Asiana plane and I wonder if there are enough other people that feel the same way. I am not trying to flame OZ but bringing up what I consider to be a serious issue.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:03 pm

Not too surprised about UUS and KHV - if anything, the only large market in Russia Far-East is VVO anyway. SU still serves both route, so the connection is still there.

As for ORD - we've seen AA pull back on TPAC out of ORD, now it's the first route that OZ ended in N. America. Perhaps it's not as big of a market as people think it is? KE definitely dominate OZ on that route, though.

Perhaps UA can fill in (788 or 789 is a good plane for that route), if they have enough long-haul fleet around, that is.
 
behramjee
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:08 pm

ITSTours wrote:
Asiana will suspend ICN-UUS (Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, Russia) and ICN-KHV (Khabarovsk, Russia) from September,
and ICN-ORD at the end of October.

http://www.asiatime.co.kr/news/articleV ... xno=241635 (Article in Korean)

Chicago really? I assume it will be temporary during the winter schedule, but this is indeed shocking.


I can confirm that ORD is being suspended effective 28OCT as all flights on sabre and amadeus have been closed off entirely for the iata w19 season.
 
behramjee
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:36 pm

d) Who would buy them though? And again, with only 6 A380s, LAX(2X)/FRA/JFK(summer)/SYD(northern winter) works actually well with high load factors.
Keep in mind that S. Korea is heavily restricted by insufficient traffic rights, and OZ can't fly most of the longhaul routes except US for multiple frequencies.


The A380s will eventually be phased out by 2025 latest so the best replacement aircraft for OZ in the current scenario is the A351.

g) Swapping from 772 to 351 will be significant upgauging. I'm afraid that will cause oversupply.
Also, 772/359 mix doesn't seem necessarily bad. The possible reason to retire 772 could be just more 359s.
Especially when the number of seats are very similar (301 vs 311).


The A351s will only be seating 15-20% more seats than the B77Es and the market demand on the current B77E long haul routes in particular should grow in due course by 2023.
Also:
* Using A359 for current A333 routes is possibly overkill in terms of capital cost.
* 14 A351s will cause oversupply and I actually don't see the need for A351 at all.
But I understand you are arguing on the basis of OZ selling off all the A380s. Even then, 9-10 will be enough.
The problem is that A351s will cause undersupply in the trunk routes (FRA/LAX/JFK in summer/SYD in northern winter).
I actually think OZ should increase the number of seats on its A380s for these markets.


No airline is investing in refurbishing the cabin of their A380s as it is a fruitless investment so unfortunately OZ will not follow that path.

Yes once the A380s retire from OZs fleet, there will be a capacity shortage offered by them on the routes you have mentioned but this is applicable to all airlines having A380s flying currently as there is no equally large aircraft available for replacement. Imagine between 2025-28 when EK retires its 615 two class high density A380s from many routes, it will be replacing them with a 450 seater 2 class B779X.

14 A351s from 2023 onwards is not at all over supplying as they can be used adequately on LAX, JFK, FRA, LHR, SYD, SFO and CDG + on regional high demand ASEAN routes.

e) I don't get the rationale. 333 is doing fine.


As I wrote the A333s should be phased out by 2023 only and not immediately because many will be too old and inefficient for that point in time. Note that the first 6 A333s of OZ were built in 2004-06 !
 
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mercure1
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:20 pm

United787 wrote:
Also, wondering if their SFO crash plays into their financial woes? I still can’t get over the fact they crashed a perfectly good working airplane in broad daylight in excellent weather. And then seemed to blame Boeing rather than use it as an opportunity to correct glaring training issues. I would never step foot on an Asiana plane and I wonder if there are enough other people that feel the same way. I am not trying to flame OZ but bringing up what I consider to be a serious issue.


Don't think the average consumer even remembers the crash. As tragic as incidents, the world goes on.

And, personally no I dont avoid OZ. Actually I find them an excellent option within Star Alliance. Flew them just last month.
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United787
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:38 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Don't think the average consumer even remembers the crash.


I would disagree. Asiana was the biggest plane to crash in the US in 20 years (AA 587). And the takeaway for the average consumer is that was pilot error.

Plus, I don't think people travelling to Korea from the US are average consumers and probably have a little more knowledge on the airlines that fly that there and memory of this crash. And even more so, the type of consumer choosing to purchase business/first class seats are also not average consumers and might be less inclined to travel on Asiana after the SFO crash.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:51 pm

To the average consumer, they won't be able to tell the difference between Asiana or Air Asia - both had crashes within a year.

Lets remember those on this site are not exactly average air travellers. Heck most Americans could not tell you much difference between AA-DL-UA let alone some foreign carrier with a tiny market share in the U.S.

United787 wrote:
I would disagree. Asiana was the biggest plane to crash in the US in 20 years (AA 587). And the takeaway for the average consumer is that was pilot error.


There were 3 fatalities in the Asiana crash. On the scale of things, it was a rather small event. There have been many more much serious hull losses in the period.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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enilria
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:00 pm

LAXintl wrote:
To the average consumer, they won't be able to tell the difference between Asiana or Air Asia - both had crashes within a year.

Lets remember those on this site are not exactly average air travellers. Heck most Americans could not tell you much difference between AA-DL-UA let alone some foreign carrier with a tiny market share in the U.S.

United787 wrote:
I would disagree. Asiana was the biggest plane to crash in the US in 20 years (AA 587). And the takeaway for the average consumer is that was pilot error.


There were 3 fatalities in the Asiana crash. On the scale of things, it was a rather small event. There have been many more much serious hull losses in the period.

Until you guys mentioned it I had forgotten Asiana had that crash and I have like 9000 posts on this site. The average consumer in the USA is zero likelihood. In Korea perhaps.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:18 pm

enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
To the average consumer, they won't be able to tell the difference between Asiana or Air Asia - both had crashes within a year.

Lets remember those on this site are not exactly average air travellers. Heck most Americans could not tell you much difference between AA-DL-UA let alone some foreign carrier with a tiny market share in the U.S.

United787 wrote:
I would disagree. Asiana was the biggest plane to crash in the US in 20 years (AA 587). And the takeaway for the average consumer is that was pilot error.


There were 3 fatalities in the Asiana crash. On the scale of things, it was a rather small event. There have been many more much serious hull losses in the period.

Until you guys mentioned it I had forgotten Asiana had that crash and I have like 9000 posts on this site. The average consumer in the USA is zero likelihood. In Korea perhaps.


I can assure that most of Korean customers do not remember as well. Also the SFO route is currently performing well.

But the Supreme Court of Korea will soon decide whether the 45-day suspension order of the Korean government over SFO crash is valid. If the court uphold the government then Asiana will face significant difficulties.
 
Dreamflight767
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:54 pm

I recently attempted to book a trip with them. Their website is dreadful and when I called to speak with someone, the attitude of the Rep. was horrible. I booked with KE. So, there might be a good place for OZ to improve.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:03 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/asiana- ... SS6N211009

Asiana's largest shareholder Kumho Industrial has hired Credit Suisse for its sale.
 
eurotrader85
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:54 pm

Dreamflight767 wrote:
I recently attempted to book a trip with them. Their website is dreadful and when I called to speak with someone, the attitude of the Rep. was horrible. I booked with KE. So, there might be a good place for OZ to improve.


Interesting you say that, I had the exact same experience. Still flew with them though and is a great airline, but as you say areas to improve. I always think they are not as integrated in Star Alliance as they could be either. At least in Europe, I find difficult to connect onto etc compared to others. A JV for feed would probably help them pack the A380 from to/from FRA amongst others, Star Alliance politics to one side.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:46 pm

Asiana Airlines proposes maximum 3-year unpaid leave to ground staff
https://pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2019&no=277233

"According to industry sources on Tuesday, Asiana Airlines will be accepting applications for unpaid leave from 15 days to maximum three years from office workers. The scheme does not affect flight crew - pilots, mechanics and flight attendants."

3 years of unpaid leave sort of wow. I didn't know the labor law allowed this...
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu May 02, 2019 5:11 am

"On Tuesday night, Asiana announced it would receive applications for voluntary retirement from employees with over 15 years at the company. Workers eligible include office employees and those in the sales and airport service departments," an official said.

https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation ... 68127.html

Now, voluntary retirement. Typical restructure.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu May 02, 2019 8:17 am

Dreamflight767 wrote:
I recently attempted to book a trip with them. Their website is dreadful and when I called to speak with someone, the attitude of the Rep. was horrible. I booked with KE. So, there might be a good place for OZ to improve.


Their website is notoriously bad. I have a colleague based in Japan and he hates using the website every time he needs to book on Asiana (but he still does it because of his Star status etc.). I guess the domestic Korean language version works OK.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
Yossarian22
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu May 02, 2019 8:44 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
As for ORD - we've seen AA pull back on TPAC out of ORD, now it's the first route that OZ ended in N. America. Perhaps it's not as big of a market as people think it is? KE definitely dominate OZ on that route, though.

Perhaps UA can fill in (788 or 789 is a good plane for that route), if they have enough long-haul fleet around, that is.


It is a bit surprising. OZ seemed to connect with UA on a number of codeshares to various U.S. cities. I have flown CVG>ORD>ICN on an OZ codeshare before. Maybe UA can do better. Although, maybe it is just a one carrier route.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Fri May 03, 2019 5:08 pm

GCT64 wrote:
Dreamflight767 wrote:
I recently attempted to book a trip with them. Their website is dreadful and when I called to speak with someone, the attitude of the Rep. was horrible. I booked with KE. So, there might be a good place for OZ to improve.


Their website is notoriously bad. I have a colleague based in Japan and he hates using the website every time he needs to book on Asiana (but he still does it because of his Star status etc.). I guess the domestic Korean language version works OK.


Their new website (since Aug 2018) is considerably better than the previous one. Still not the best though.

The weirdest thing about their website is that they only allow Star award in Korean website.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Fri May 03, 2019 5:29 pm

Asiana has disabled all A380 first class booking after September. I see no open F inventories on ExpertFlyer after 9/1.

This might be an early indication of complete removal of first class. They can fit economy, economy plus or premium economy in the first class section.

Or just remove A380s if they can find the buyers which will be of course difficult. These are on capital lease so they cannot just return these. In such case A350-1000 will be their flagship as someone above suggested.
 
GuruJanitor
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Fri May 03, 2019 5:36 pm

Completely anecdotal, but a datapoint nonetheless, I flew JFK-ICN on May 1st and J was completely filled except for 2 seats, the rear upper deck Y cabin was full. I’d feel safe in assuming the lower deck Y was also full. No idea how F was. I found it surprising because my last few flights with OZ JFK-ICN, J was more like 80% full.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue May 07, 2019 4:48 am

Asiana confirms the elimination of First Class effective 9/1/2019. The former First Class Suites will be designated as Business Suites for J class.
https://flyasiana.com/C/KR/KO/customer/ ... 0001138324

Asiana suspends KHV and UUS from 7/8/2019, earlier than the original plan. Also, DEL will be suspended effective 7/8/2019.
https://flyasiana.com/C/KR/KO/customer/ ... 0001138256
 
Ishrion
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Wed May 08, 2019 3:37 am

 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Wed May 08, 2019 5:12 am

GuruJanitor wrote:
Completely anecdotal, but a datapoint nonetheless, I flew JFK-ICN on May 1st and J was completely filled except for 2 seats, the rear upper deck Y cabin was full. I’d feel safe in assuming the lower deck Y was also full. No idea how F was. I found it surprising because my last few flights with OZ JFK-ICN, J was more like 80% full.


From May to August, JFK-ICN-JFK routes' load factors are fantastic. It's easily over 90% on average. And this is with A380s.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Fri May 31, 2019 1:30 am

1) AK group, the owner of Jeju Air (largest Korean LCC), is reported to bid for Asiana.
They don't have enough money to buy Asiana unless they form a consortium with financial investors.
It might only be that AK wants to increase the price, without an actual intent to purchase Asiana.
Or they might be interested only purchasing Air Busan and/or Air Seoul (Asiana's two child LCCs).

2) SK group is again rumored to join the bidding war. Of course SK continues to deny.
But because of this rumor, Asiana IDT (Asiana's IT backbone) stock rose 30%, Asiana itself rose 15%, etc. It came back down a few percents today.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:27 pm

Not very important news, but the prosecutors will investigate former Kumho Asiana chairman Park Sam-koo for breach of fiduciary duty.
http://www.seoulfn.com/news/articleView ... xno=346033 (Article in Korean)

He apparently bought two mountains and did some gardenings using the company money for... family graveyard.
 
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DL747400
Posts: 939
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:39 am

ITSTours wrote:
Asiana Airlines proposes maximum 3-year unpaid leave to ground staff
https://pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2019&no=277233

"According to industry sources on Tuesday, Asiana Airlines will be accepting applications for unpaid leave from 15 days to maximum three years from office workers. The scheme does not affect flight crew - pilots, mechanics and flight attendants."

3 years of unpaid leave sort of wow. I didn't know the labor law allowed this...


Voluntary leave for staff as one piece of a comprehensive operational review is a start, but cost-reduction measures like this will not stop the hemorrhaging. They need to be doing a lot more than they are currently if they want to see meaningful progress.
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ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:35 am

DL747400 wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
Asiana Airlines proposes maximum 3-year unpaid leave to ground staff
https://pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2019&no=277233

"According to industry sources on Tuesday, Asiana Airlines will be accepting applications for unpaid leave from 15 days to maximum three years from office workers. The scheme does not affect flight crew - pilots, mechanics and flight attendants."

3 years of unpaid leave sort of wow. I didn't know the labor law allowed this...


Voluntary leave for staff as one piece of a comprehensive operational review is a start, but cost-reduction measures like this will not stop the hemorrhaging. They need to be doing a lot more than they are currently if they want to see meaningful progress.


Yes. That's why they are-
1) suspending Sakhalin, Khabarovsk, Dehli and Chicago(!) routes, and
2) eliminating first class and adopting 'business suite',
3) introducing paid upgrade standby and (finally) monetizing the exit row seats.

I do think they still need more drastic measures.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:08 am

Asiana begins selling cigarettes at the inflight duty-free shop. (Of course you still can't smoke inflight)

Sounds minor but actually significant; Asiana was the world first airline to prohibit smoking on board.
They are now really chasing profits.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:07 pm

Today is the extraordinary general meeting for Asiana Airlines.
Shareholders are going to vote on the increase of maximum limit for the convertible bond, which is required for Korea Development Bank's last 100 Billion Won cash injection out of the planned 500 Billion.

Kumho Petrochemical, whose owner is the brother of former chairman Park Sam-koo and which owns 11.98% of Asiana, decided to vote against it. Because their stock value will be diluted if the CB is eventually converted into stock. Some foreign funds are also reported to vote against it.

If the limit increase does not pass then there will be a slowdown for the restructure plan for Asiana.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:37 am

All the resolutions were passed despite Kumho Petrochemical was against them.
The restructuring plan will continue as usual.
 
StuckInCA
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:53 am

DL747400 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Until you guys mentioned it I had forgotten Asiana had that crash and I have like 9000 posts on this site. The average consumer in the USA is zero likelihood. In Korea perhaps.


The Koreans I work with here in the USA each make 6-10 trips each year to Korea, mostly for business but also to visit family. They remember the crash of OZ214 well and no longer fly them, even when they happen to be the best deal.

Your post states your opinion, but was not highlighted as such. And how the heck do your glorious 9000 posts on this site in any way relate to remembering the crash of OZ214?


Same. While I may not qualify as average just by participating on this site, my colleagues (who can't even recognize aircraft types) - both American and Korean - remember and seem to choose accordingly.
 
sccutler
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:16 am

ITSTours wrote:
Asiana begins selling cigarettes at the inflight duty-free shop. (Of course you still can't smoke inflight)

Sounds minor but actually significant; Asiana was the world first airline to prohibit smoking on board.
They are now really chasing profits.


Muse Air banned smoking well prior; early 80s.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:31 pm

Had been quiet for a while, but finally here is the news.

Asiana will accept the letter of intent maybe from this week.
http://www.fnnews.com/news/201907221756006075 (Article in Korean)

Only AK group has pubicly expressed its interest; others have been silent.
According to the article, 2-3 parties (unknown) are also interested.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:19 am

Asiana sales process has begun. Who will bid? Who will buy? Let's see.
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190725000160
 
GuruJanitor
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:06 pm

I received an email from Asiana yesterday announcing the return of double daily JFK from Nov 24. The graphic highlights the a350. I find this interesting with all their cost cutting. ITS, do you know if they will keep the a380 on the daytime frequency in northern summer, or are they beginning a slow phase out of the 380 and going all a350 on the route? I imagine the a350 will be on both frequencies in northern winter as it has been the case for the single frequency the last couple of years. I always thought the a380 does quite well for them on JFK in the summer, and my anecdotal experience backs that up.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:25 pm

GuruJanitor wrote:
I received an email from Asiana yesterday announcing the return of double daily JFK from Nov 24. The graphic highlights the a350. I find this interesting with all their cost cutting. ITS, do you know if they will keep the a380 on the daytime frequency in northern summer, or are they beginning a slow phase out of the 380 and going all a350 on the route? I imagine the a350 will be on both frequencies in northern winter as it has been the case for the single frequency the last couple of years. I always thought the a380 does quite well for them on JFK in the summer, and my anecdotal experience backs that up.


OZ doesn't really need the A380 to North America. Frequency is needed. KE can get away with the A380 (A380/B748 mix in the winter) because KE is premium-heavy and because DL and KE are in a joint venture. That second daily flight would connect to OZ's morning bank at ICN.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm

ITSTours wrote:
Asiana was the world first airline to prohibit smoking on board.


FWIW Virgin Atlantic, Qantas and Air New Zealand also make that claim.

Duty Free Cigarettes certainly shouldn't be sold onboard.
First to fly the 787-9
 
YoungDon
Posts: 645
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:33 pm

zkojq wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
Asiana was the world first airline to prohibit smoking on board.


FWIW Virgin Atlantic, Qantas and Air New Zealand also make that claim.

Duty Free Cigarettes certainly shouldn't be sold onboard.


Couldn't have been Virgin Atlantic. As mentioned before Muse Air banned it in 1981, Virgin Atlantic didn't even start flying until 1984.
 
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Polot
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:40 pm

YoungDon wrote:
zkojq wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
Asiana was the world first airline to prohibit smoking on board.


FWIW Virgin Atlantic, Qantas and Air New Zealand also make that claim.

Duty Free Cigarettes certainly shouldn't be sold onboard.


Couldn't have been Virgin Atlantic. As mentioned before Muse Air banned it in 1981, Virgin Atlantic didn't even start flying until 1984.

Oh they still have claimed it before: https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/stopping-smoking

That said lots of airlines are very selective, especially since it is hard to find a true answer.

We were the first to ban smoking* (*out of UK airlines)

We were the first to ban smoking** (**on all intercontinental flights)

We were the first to ban smoking*** (***on all flights)

Etc.
 
ITSTours
Topic Author
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:17 pm

Polot wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
zkojq wrote:

FWIW Virgin Atlantic, Qantas and Air New Zealand also make that claim.

Duty Free Cigarettes certainly shouldn't be sold onboard.


Couldn't have been Virgin Atlantic. As mentioned before Muse Air banned it in 1981, Virgin Atlantic didn't even start flying until 1984.

Oh they still have claimed it before: https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/stopping-smoking

That said lots of airlines are very selective, especially since it is hard to find a true answer.

We were the first to ban smoking* (*out of UK airlines)

We were the first to ban smoking** (**on all intercontinental flights)

We were the first to ban smoking*** (***on all flights)

Etc.


According to NYT quoted in Wikipedia Muse Air rescinded the no smoking policy back in 1985.

But it is not a central issue in this thread anyway...
 
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vhtje
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:46 am

Australia banned smoking on domestic flights (TN, AN) in December 1986. That is probably where QF's claim comes from, since they took over TN. From memory, Qantas itself didn't ban smoking on its international flights until the early 1990s.

When did Asiana ban come into effect?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24515
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:10 am

Only AK Group reported being interested. Bids due September 3.


Asiana Airlines bidding opens to weak response
http://www.orientaviation.com/articles/ ... k-response
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3498
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:32 am

It's certainly not a good time for South Korean aviation industry overall anyway. IIRC none of the airline turn a profit last quarter with the trade spat with Japan causing problems.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24515
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Re: Asiana Airlines in huge financial trouble

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:42 am

Looks like 2 bidders --

AK Group owners of Koreas largest LCC - Jeju Air and KCGI who is also an investor in Korean Air and its CEO openly calling for bringing together KE and OZ.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California

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