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readytotaxi
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BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:04 pm

Okay, I had to check if it was April 1st.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47691478

"BA say the pilot wasn't lost at any point, but because the paperwork said Edinburgh, air traffic control allowed the flight to take that route."
Surely the pilot knew what the final destination was? :confused:
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GCT64
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:09 pm

Does indeed appear to be correct, this morning's BA3271 op by WDL's BAe146 D-AMGL went from LCY to EDI not to DUS :shock:
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:11 pm

No Brexit for these pax :D
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MalevTU134
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:12 pm

Similar thing happened in Sweden a few years back. ARN-GOT ended up in SDL...
 
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scbriml
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:12 pm

OK, so it wasn't a flight operated by BA, but by WDL. Not that I'm excusing a pretty shocking error. I'm slightly surprised that some pax didn't realise they were flying North-West instead of almost due East.

That's what happens with "3rd World airlines with badly trained, low skilled, inexperienced crews". Oh wait...
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FB330
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:16 pm

Don't understand how this could happen. Presumably the captain and the crew thought they were going to Edinburgh?

So, did the captain not make any announcements? Did the crew not welcome people on board a flight to XXXX? What did the sign at the gate say? Did passengers get their passes checked when boarding?

Fascinating this wasn't picked up before landing....I sure would have realised I was flying in the wrong direction.
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:16 pm

Serves them right for trying to go to Dusseldorf!
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:18 pm

scbriml wrote:
OK, so it wasn't a flight operated by BA, but by WDL. Not that I'm excusing a pretty shocking error. I'm slightly surprised that some pax didn't realise they were flying North-West instead of almost due East.

That's what happens with "3rd World airlines with badly trained, low skilled, inexperienced crews". Oh wait...

Are you really surprised the pax didn’t notice? I know lots of people on this website are glued to the window and follow the flight on FltPlanGo or whatever but 99.999999% of pax on any flight I’m on are either on their electronic device or asleep
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:21 pm

All it takes is a couple savvy flyers to notice landmarks that wouldn't make sense in flying to Germany.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:24 pm

I hope the Frequent Flyers get the extra mileage credited to their account. :D
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lowfareair
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:30 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
All it takes is a couple savvy flyers to notice landmarks that wouldn't make sense in flying to Germany.


Or lack thereof, such as not flying over a major body of water. :mrgreen:
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:30 pm

BAe146 still flying scheduled service. I had no idea.
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:36 pm

Lrockeagle wrote:
scbriml wrote:
OK, so it wasn't a flight operated by BA, but by WDL. Not that I'm excusing a pretty shocking error. I'm slightly surprised that some pax didn't realise they were flying North-West instead of almost due East.

That's what happens with "3rd World airlines with badly trained, low skilled, inexperienced crews". Oh wait...

Are you really surprised the pax didn’t notice? I know lots of people on this website are glued to the window and follow the flight on FltPlanGo or whatever but 99.999999% of pax on any flight I’m on are either on their electronic device or asleep


And had they noticed? Rap on the cockpit door? Tackle the flight attendants? Pax are supposed to tell the flight crew how to do their jobs now? Shouldn't the cockpiit crew noticed that they were flying North-West instead of almost due East? If they did not, why should the pax....
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:44 pm

For the random stuff that some passengers ask the crew about, I wouldn't at all be surprised if someone would ask "are we going the wrong way?
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:53 pm

scbriml wrote:
I'm slightly surprised that some pax didn't realise they were flying North-West instead of almost due East.

I don't know, but I guess this old Bae146 doesn't have any kind of IFE such as moving maps etc. I guess I wouldn't have noticed w/o moving map or similar.

 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:00 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
All it takes is a couple savvy flyers to notice landmarks that wouldn't make sense in flying to Germany.


Depends on cloud cover.
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:10 pm

Did the crew not make a PA call, "welcome on board this flight to EDI", at which point the pax might have noticed "that's nowhere near Dusseldorf". Something just doesn't add up. It's nothing to do with being an aircraft enthusiast; even with complete cloud cover, you would sense that you were flying north rather than SE.
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:16 pm

"British" Airways. Enough said. If you think this is bad take a train in UK.
 
FlyingColours
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:18 pm

To be fair to the Flight Crew, the flight plan and paperwork was for Edinburgh so they were going where they were supposed to be going (in theory).

Phil
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:19 pm

The skies were clear early this morning over East Anglia, was every passenger with a window seat either asleep or clueless as to where they should be heading ?
 
kalvado
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:22 pm

kaitak wrote:
Did the crew not make a PA call, "welcome on board this flight to EDI", at which point the pax might have noticed "that's nowhere near Dusseldorf". Something just doesn't add up. It's nothing to do with being an aircraft enthusiast; even with complete cloud cover, you would sense that you were flying north rather than SE.

I was on a flight where captain made usual announcement along the lines of "Welcome on board [Airline] flight [1234] to [completely different destination than everyone expected]. Flight time is... (few seconds of silence) Oh, I am sorry, flight to [correct destination] (sigh in the cabin) - it was a long day for us"
While we didn't fly anywhere we didn't expect to, I can see how the problem may occur.
 
kalvado
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:23 pm

maint123 wrote:
"British" Airways. Enough said. If you think this is bad take a train in UK.

But those are first world pilots, who certainly know how to deal with trim runaway! So not a big deal after all.
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:29 pm

maint123 wrote:
"British" Airways. Enough said. If you think this is bad take a train in UK.

I do, several times a week. They're generally excellent, as are BA when I fly with them, half a dozen times a year.
Last edited by vaughanparry on Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bob606
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:30 pm

Is it possible the pilots flew to the correct airport, but that the terminal staff boarded passengers on the wrong plane?
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:37 pm

scbriml wrote:
OK, so it wasn't a flight operated by BA, but by WDL. Not that I'm excusing a pretty shocking error. I'm slightly surprised that some pax didn't realise they were flying North-West instead of almost due East.

That's what happens with "3rd World airlines with badly trained, low skilled, inexperienced crews". Oh wait...

oh yeah indeed..,but how could this happen in a first world country? do we need virtual pilots and/or cameras in cockpit now? ;)
 
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ojjunior
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:38 pm

How is this even possible? And BA says everything is okay?
I've reading recently that some folks land in the wrong airport, now others do not know where the flight that he is at controls is going... what's wrong with these people?
The paper says one thing but the guy reports himself for duty to flight X and inside the cockpit the paperwork says destination Y, and does he follow anyway without asking a single question or finding it odd?? I refuse to believe...
There is certainly something obscure about it that BA wants to hide. Or the ATC.
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:42 pm

bob606 wrote:
Is it possible the pilots flew to the correct airport, but that the terminal staff boarded passengers on the wrong plane?

Perhaps. Heard nothing about people wanting to fly to EDI ending up in Dusseldorf though...

But this actually happened to me AMM though, on a Royal Jordanian flight. When boarding started, I thought it was weird we had to walk such a long way.... and ending up in an aircraft with already quite some people aboard. Fortunately, cabin crew there pointed us the correct aircraft to board!
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:44 pm

Apparently everything was filed to EDI which is why it wasn’t picked up by ATC. I am surprised EDI approach didn’t even question this as their plans are issued generally days ahead.

Surely the ‘welcome to this flight to Edinburgh’ might have pricked a few ears???

And as you say even with cloud cover I am going to clock that I am flying the wrong way, although I appreciate I’m probably in the minority.

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ScottishDavie
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:52 pm

I've flown LCY-EDI countless times and I've flown LCY-DUS once or twice. If I'd been flying to DUS I think I would have noticed if we hadn't started to cross the North Sea! I don't ever remember being on a flight where the cabin crew haven't welcomed the passengers on board "our flight to xyz airport" so I wonder if the cabin crew thought they were going to DUS as well as the passengers?

Wherever the fault lies the crew must have been following a "correctly" filed flight plan otherwise ATC would presumably have pointed out the error. Some cock-up in the paperwork seems the most likely explanation. I suppose it's just possible that the passengers could have been put on the wrong aircraft at LCY although the WDL 146 tends to stand out among the E-jets.

'"British" Airways. Enough said. If you think this is bad take a train in UK'.
I don't know what your problem is with British Airways but BA Cityflyer, which is run as a stand-alone business, is an excellent operation. If I have the choice between travelling on an overcrowded and probably late-running train between Edinburgh and London or relaxing in the 2+2 leather seats on a Cityflyer Embraer I know what I'm going to choose.
Last edited by ScottishDavie on Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
YIMBY
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:53 pm

Once my plane was late because the pilots had embarked in a wrong plane. They apparently noticed their errors before they flew it away and came apologizing to our plane. Well, the cabin crew had had us laugh before that. That was SK.

Another flight was delayed because one flight attendant was missing - she was found in a wrong plane. (It was already late for another reason and was delayed more for a third reason and finally cancelled for a fourth reason. That airline does not exist any more)

I have also been in a flight where they announced a wrong destination. We ended in the right place, though.
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:01 pm

As this was a flight operated by WDL on behalf of BA, i'd hazard a guess that maybe someone in BA got their destinations mixed up when filling out the sub-charter contract, and as far as WDL were concerned they were only ever meant to be operating to EDI, hence why the flight deck flew to EDI and the ATC flight plan was filed LCY-EDI. Maybe only once passengers raised their concerns and mentioned it to the WDL crew did they then contact their ops, who then contacted BA, who now have a member of staff who will be the butt of all jokes for a while. This is my theory anyway, based on the fact that I myself have made a similar error, not quite on as grand a scale as this (chartered a helicopter and got it mixed between BHD and BFS) but I can certainly see where this may have happened, especially after a long night shift.
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:07 pm

Glad they did not try to use the DUS approach plate!
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:09 pm

Who filled out the dispatch paperwork? YIKES!
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:21 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:
The skies were clear early this morning over East Anglia, was every passenger with a window seat either asleep or clueless as to where they should be heading ?


I think it's wrong to expect passengers to have the navigation skills of a professional pilot. People pay good money for a ticket so they can rely on the pilots to take them to the correct destination.
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Pyrex
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:21 pm

If this got messed up, what is the chance that the load sheet and take-off speeds were correct? Not a lot of margin for error in LCY...
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Aisak
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:24 pm

Dispatcher9999 wrote:
As this was a flight operated by WDL on behalf of BA, i'd hazard a guess that maybe someone in BA got their destinations mixed up when filling out the sub-charter contract, and as far as WDL were concerned they were only ever meant to be operating to EDI, hence why the flight deck flew to EDI and the ATC flight plan was filed LCY-EDI.


Even more complicated. WDL on behalf of BA cityflyer dba British Airways under a franchise agreement. It’s hard to keep up these days.

If seems fleet planning just switched planes last minute without noticing one of the frames/crew were contracted. I’m sure the PAX were also not informed (PNR/BP etc...) of the correct operator being WDL aviation instead of BA cityflyer.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:26 pm

kaitak wrote:
Did the crew not make a PA call, "welcome on board this flight to EDI", at which point the pax might have noticed "that's nowhere near Dusseldorf". Something just doesn't add up. It's nothing to do with being an aircraft enthusiast; even with complete cloud cover, you would sense that you were flying north rather than SE.


How does a passenger sense which direction they're flying when there's complete cloud cover?
 
vfw614
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:29 pm

For those wondering about the lack of passenger intervention - apparently there weren't too many on board - this a quote from the Daily Mail of all papers article on the mishap:

At no time has the safety of passengers been compromised. We flew the five passengers on the flight with number BA3271 to Düsseldorf after the involuntary stopover in Edinburgh.'


What I find more surprising is that to the best of my knowledge the leased WDL 146 is dedicated to the DUS route (plus the odd France flight on weekends), just like before the leased-in Eastern E70 was used on that route. So alarm bells should have rung in the cockpit when they got the flight plan for EDI.
 
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scbriml
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:37 pm

NYPECO wrote:
How does a passenger sense which direction they're flying when there's complete cloud cover?


Well, mainly clear blue skies over the UK today. But even with cloud cover, there's that big orange ball in the sky. :sun:
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Moose135
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:45 pm

Good thing the RAF didn't make this mistake back in '44!
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Revelation
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:45 pm

Maybe the crew prefers haggis to blutwurst?
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:45 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
All it takes is a couple savvy flyers to notice landmarks that wouldn't make sense in flying to Germany.


Assuming it was clear skies?
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:48 pm

Do ground ops not monitor flights? Not sure how this works, I thought all flights a typically monitored from Flight Ops.
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:00 pm

I can under stand this happens one's in a million flight, still I would envy the crew saying good bye at the door after landing :shakehead: The pilots probably closed & locked the cockpit door until every one was out. :flamed:
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MalevTU134
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:06 pm

Moose135 wrote:
Good thing the RAF didn't make this mistake back in '44!

Best comment of the day!! Made me spray my screen with coffee... Thank you, Sir, for a great laugh!! :)
 
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par13del
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:14 pm

Thank God they were not flying in the 3rd world say here in the Bahamas, imagine if they were going to Miami from Nassau and ended up over Cuba.
The Cubans are very strict about anyone overflying their territory without prior permission, see this is where the advancement of the EU pays off, Scotland, Germany, same difference.
 
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:30 pm

Pyrex wrote:
If this got messed up, what is the chance that the load sheet and take-off speeds were correct? Not a lot of margin for error in LCY...


I suspect - though I could be wrong - that you're reading too much into this. In this case, the flight would have been very light, so using V-speeds for higher weights would have been on the conservative side and therefore, safe.

Many years ago at the regional I flew for, after we had all reviewed our flight plans, weather, etc. and signed our dispatch releases, the boarding began and we quickly discovered that there had been a very late 4-way aircraft swap. Airplane B was moved to airplane A's flight, C to B, D to C and A to D. So the error had been in the late swaps, nothing the crews had done was wrong, but it did highlight the problem of cancelling or amending a dispatch release once the original had been signed by the captain.

I can also remember another flight where the passenger count was significantly higher than the flight plan and before we reached the runway, it was discovered that some passengers had boarded the flight in addition the correct (destination) passengers - back to the gate we went (ah, the days before bar codes, eh?).
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ScottishDavie
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:36 pm

vfw614 wrote:
What I find more surprising is that to the best of my knowledge the leased WDL 146 is dedicated to the DUS route (plus the odd France flight on weekends), just like before the leased-in Eastern E70 was used on that route. So alarm bells should have rung in the cockpit when they got the flight plan for EDI.


The WDL aircraft do the LCY-FRA route from time to time. I might have imagined it but I think they've also done LCY-RTM in the past. I don't remember them doing an internal UK flight so, yes, you'd think the crew might have double checked. OK it shouldn't have happened but in the global scheme of things this probably counts as weird rather than serious. Nobody was hurt, nobody was ever likely to be hurt and they got to DUS eventually.
 
kalvado
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:38 pm

par13del wrote:
Thank God they were not flying in the 3rd world say here in the Bahamas, imagine if they were going to Miami from Nassau and ended up over Cuba.
The Cubans are very strict about anyone overflying their territory without prior permission, see this is where the advancement of the EU pays off, Scotland, Germany, same difference.

Imagine them flying unapproved over Manhattan, though....
 
Pyrex
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Re: BA plane flies to Scotland by mistake, should have been Germany

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:42 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
If this got messed up, what is the chance that the load sheet and take-off speeds were correct? Not a lot of margin for error in LCY...


I suspect - though I could be wrong - that you're reading too much into this. In this case, the flight would have been very light, so using V-speeds for higher weights would have been on the conservative side and therefore, safe.

Many years ago at the regional I flew for, after we had all reviewed our flight plans, weather, etc. and signed our dispatch releases, the boarding began and we quickly discovered that there had been a very late 4-way aircraft swap. Airplane B was moved to airplane A's flight, C to B, D to C and A to D. So the error had been in the late swaps, nothing the crews had done was wrong, but it did highlight the problem of cancelling or amending a dispatch release once the original had been signed by the captain.

I can also remember another flight where the passenger count was significantly higher than the flight plan and before we reached the runway, it was discovered that some passengers had boarded the flight in addition the correct (destination) passengers - back to the gate we went (ah, the days before bar codes, eh?).


I might, but then again that was before I found out there were only 5 people on the flight. The general point still stands, though - DUS is actually closer to LCY than EDI (although not by a material amount), so there could have been a situation where the plane did not have enough fuel for the trip they ended up taking, etc. As it turned out, the potential risk ended up being minimal, but only by dumb luck. If I were the AAIB I would be taking a close look at what happened here to make sure it didn't happen again, with potentially more serious consequences.
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Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos