c933103
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:14 pm

At this point does the airlines still fulfill the majority local control rule?
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:37 pm

c933103 wrote:
At this point does the airlines still fulfill the majority local control rule?


For now, I believe so (Since Grand City Capital Investment is some HK company). Realistically, god knows b/c nobody (including the aviation authority, who is requesting an answer) knows who controls what, who's in charge, and whether there are any money left from anybody.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:26 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Well...just more updates.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... ttle-slams

Basically, "Grand City Investment Capital" (GCIC), the "new player" that emerged yesterday, supposedly took the entire Frontier Investment Partners (FIP)'s stakes in HKA. FIP is how Zhong Guosong himself got into power (in a "coup" as GCIC/HNA described it) as FIP (used to?) own ~34% of HX, and combined with Zhong's personal ~27%, form the 61% majority stakes.

Also, since GCIC claimed that they got the 34% control, that would make them (not Zhong) the majority owner (HNA Group holds ~29%; the rest 10% or so is hold by some individual investors). GCIC is also certainly not in "Zhong clique" (Although it's not known whether they're in "HNA clique", either).

Zhong is basically saying that the whole FIP transaction is not authorized (by the whole FIP board) and is filing an injunctions against a FIP executive, Zhang Ziyan, stopping him from making any further transaction.

(Chinese only)
https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93 ... 9%E8%AC%97

At the end of the day, as SCMP puts it:
"Sources said the true owners had to prove they had the money to invest in the airline to ensure the airline’s permit would not be lost."

And so far, it seems like everyone is fighting for control, but do anyone have the money to fill the hole that HX is in?

What...a...mess, is all I'll say.

This drama proves to be better than any TVB drama series plot... Or even Andy Hui's infidelity news....paint me stupid..lol
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:37 pm

juliuswong wrote:
This drama proves to be better than any TVB drama series plot... Or even Andy Hui's infidelity news....paint me stupid..lol


Come on...you can't beat this real-life version of "Heart of Greed" (I have to look up the English name for the series... :white: ).

I mean, two side fighting for power and out of nowhere, a third group appears? As TVB drama as this can get :banghead:
 
juliuswong
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:55 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
This drama proves to be better than any TVB drama series plot... Or even Andy Hui's infidelity news....paint me stupid..lol


Come on...you can't beat this real-life version of "Heart of Greed" (I have to look up the English name for the series... :white: ).

I mean, two side fighting for power and out of nowhere, a third group appears? As TVB drama as this can get :banghead:

Hahahaha.. Laughing so hard now. You earn a follower/admirer today. So someone needs to push either one leader down the staircase thrb we will have an ending? Lol...

Serious though, hope they can sort out the mess. Hong Kong needs a second premium carrier to keep CX/KA honest, although I know they have hundreds of airlines flying in and out of HKG. Being their employees ain't fun now tbh. Job security and livelihood at stake.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2681
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:18 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Serious though, hope they can sort out the mess. Hong Kong needs a second premium carrier to keep CX/KA honest, although I know they have hundreds of airlines flying in and out of HKG. Being their employees ain't fun now tbh. Job security and livelihood at stake.


They did lost >100 employees just from beginning of this year:
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... g-airlines

But yes, with all the conflicts up top, the fear is that it'll eventually affect everyday operations. And even after they determined who controls what, HX still need to find a way to dig themselves out of the hole they're in.

Otherwise - I do agree that Hong Kong needs a local competitor to CX/KA/(UO). I've flown on HX a few times myself, and while I can tell that their cabin crew is inexperience, they also have that youth energy that you simply can't find in those "don't care" old-timers of CX.

juliuswong wrote:
Hahahaha.. Laughing so hard now. You earn a follower/admirer today. So someone needs to push either one leader down the staircase thrb we will have an ending? Lol...


Come on, we all know Zhong Guosong, Hou Wei, Zhang Ziyan, and whoever control Grand City will just throw a BBQ party at the rooftop of HX's headquarter building after everything is done. :duck: :duck: (For those not familiar with Hong Kong TVB drama, just google "TVB BBQ Ending")
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
c933103
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:19 pm

https://inews.hket.com/article/2334474/ ... ?mtc=20038

How come even statement made by involved companies have to circulate as if they are some sort of rumors instead of being posted officially?
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:12 pm

Just a little bit more...

(Again, Chinese only for now)
https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93 ... 2%E8%AC%80

Basically...
1. FIP claimed Zhang Ziyan, who's a former executive and left FIP since July, used FIP's name to transfer its stakes to GCCI without FIP's authorization. FIP is arguing that since Zhang is no longer an executive (The agreement was signed on April 11th, the day before Zhong Guosong took over HX's board), the agreement has no legal standing.
2. FIP also claimed that Zhang is working with some third party, most likely associated with "HNA Clique".
3. HNA (Who's the one that spread the news about how FIP's stake was "transferred"), of course, claim that the agreement is legal, and since FIP holds zero stakes in HX now, Zhong would not have the majority stakes that he claims he holds, and thus, there's no legal standing of Zhong taking over the board as the chairman.

I believe the deadline to clarify the ownership from the authority (IIRC the aviation authority) was Wednesday Hong Kong Time, so we're past that already. Maybe more cliffhangers coming out of this TVB-esque drama in the next 12 hours?

On a side note - the mess that's call HX ownership is maybe why no other large investor even bother investing in it? Temasek Holdings was rumored to take a stake (this was awhile back...circa 2017 IIRC), but nothing came of that. CX bought only UO but not HX.
 
c933103
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:47 am

https://www.bastillepost.com/macau/arti ... ent_cat=16
Report claim HX was not able to take delivery of at least 4 new aircrafts (including A330 and A350 per HX), and HNA asked pilots to work for other airlines in the HNA group instead, including Hainan Airlines, HK Express, Tianjin Airlines, Hong Kong Air Cargo, and also Etihad Airlines. Report said there are already 57 HX pilots accepted this arrangement. HX claim the arrangement will last for a year.
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:42 am

c933103 wrote:
https://www.bastillepost.com/macau/article/1732338-%E5%82%B3%E8%B3%87%E9%87%91%E7%9F%AD%E7%BC%BA%E6%9C%AA%E8%83%BD%E8%B2%B7%E6%96%B0%E9%A3%9B%E6%A9%9F-%E6%B8%AF%E8%88%AA57%E5%90%8D%E6%A9%9F%E5%B8%AB%E9%9C%80%E5%80%9F%E8%AA%BF%E6%88%96%E8%BD%89?current_cat=16
Report claim HX was not able to take delivery of at least 4 new aircrafts (including A330 and A350 per HX), and HNA asked pilots to work for other airlines in the HNA group instead, including Hainan Airlines, HK Express, Tianjin Airlines, Hong Kong Air Cargo, and also Etihad Airlines. Report said there are already 57 HX pilots accepted this arrangement. HX claim the arrangement will last for a year.


Not surprise by this at all. HX has no money anyway.

On the other hand, wasn’t it rumored that HX will eventually return all their A332 to lessor? HX had been cutting back on their long-haul operations quite a bit anyway (i.e. ending AKL and changing both LAX and YVR to 4-5/week instead of daily).
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed May 08, 2019 11:00 am

https://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... adache-its

Not as major, but the auditor just resigned.

As the article said, it can be “normal” (i.e. HX changing auditor, rotation), or it can be the fact that the auditor saw something that he/she doesn’t want to sign off on.

Meanwhile, the two (or more) sides are heading to court later this month, and thus, there should be more drama then.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed May 15, 2019 11:21 am

Umm...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... chase/amp/

Just goes to tell you how complicated (and shady) HNA dealings are.
 
juliuswong
Moderator
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed May 15, 2019 12:34 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Umm...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... chase/amp/

Just goes to tell you how complicated (and shady) HNA dealings are.

The mind twisting business transaction.....i need to read twice to understand what actually happened.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed May 15, 2019 1:35 pm

juliuswong wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Umm...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... chase/amp/

Just goes to tell you how complicated (and shady) HNA dealings are.

The mind twisting business transaction.....i need to read twice to understand what actually happened.


Yep...a "bribe" (that may have been paid...or maybe not), offshore dealings with some Turkish businessman, then just randomly put those planes to one of the HK-based airlines b/c of possible Chinese regulatory issues just to lease those planes out. Oh, and HNA somehow has holdings in those companies.

Ultimately, all these things would not be known had HNA not borrow more than they can paid back and lose money left and right on stupid investments that are vanity "buy b/c they can buy something just to show off their (and Chinese companies) might" instead of doing homeworks. All in the meanwhile, with nobody knowing where those money came from, or how HNA is able to borrow some of the money to begin with.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:01 pm

https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93 ... 1%E6%9D%B1
(Sorry, Chinese only for now)

After all the "storm", everything seems to be resolved, with HNA staying in control.

They do mention about finding a new strategic investor, which they'll need anyway to cover the debt they're in.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:51 pm

Does it mean that CX's acquisition of UO is a done deal?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:10 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Does it mean that CX's acquisition of UO is a done deal?


Yes, CX announced the deal is finalized and waiting to complete the trade,
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:12 pm

HK Airlines is a good airline and HK market can be benefited from having a major HK based airline to compete with CX Group. Hope they will be great again after the mess they suffered due to HU's financial difficulties.
 
itisi
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:59 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
HK Airlines is a good airline and HK market can be benefited from having a major HK based airline to compete with CX Group. Hope they will be great again after the mess they suffered due to HU's financial difficulties.


I don't think all the mess is due to HU. Everything I hear about HX is a total mess.
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:44 am

itisi wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
HK Airlines is a good airline and HK market can be benefited from having a major HK based airline to compete with CX Group. Hope they will be great again after the mess they suffered due to HU's financial difficulties.


I don't think all the mess is due to HU. Everything I hear about HX is a total mess.


HX has financial problems mainly bc the floodgate known as HNA Group and their “infinite” (all borrowed) money dried up literally overnight. Gone is the day when HX can literally expand and buy everything they want and now, they actually has to run an airline within their means.

hongkongflyer wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Does it mean that CX's acquisition of UO is a done deal?


Yes, CX announced the deal is finalized and waiting to complete the trade,


Last I check there are still hold ups, i.e. Zhong Guosong afaik is still not willing to sell his stakes in UO. HX being “back to normal” under HNA Control definitely helps, though, as HNA is willing to sell UO.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:27 am

itisi wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
HK Airlines is a good airline and HK market can be benefited from having a major HK based airline to compete with CX Group. Hope they will be great again after the mess they suffered due to HU's financial difficulties.


I don't think all the mess is due to HU. Everything I hear about HX is a total mess.


Yes the back office operations have some issues, which is common in Asia,
However, the major financial shortfall is mainly due to the bonds they issued, of which majority of the fund raised were send to HU Group.
HX it self had a good operating performance (they even planned for IPO few years ago).
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:47 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Does it mean that CX's acquisition of UO is a done deal?


Yes, CX announced the deal is finalized and waiting to complete the trade,


https://hk.finance.appledaily.com/finan ... 2/59815970 (Chinese only...Subscription required also)

Essentially what hongkongflyer is mentioning - the deal is being finalized and we should see full details sometimes next week.

For now, HKExpress name will not change, so no "Cathay Express" with the Purple "Shark Fin" on the tail for now :cry2:
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Cathay purchasing HK Express

Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:01 pm

(Bumping the thread)
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... hong-kongs

And things are heading towards the finish line, with CX appointing a new CEO at UO, while HNA-related executives are exiting one by one.

We'll see how much CX increased the fare, especially on popular route (i.e. Japan), once UO is fully being took over :duck:
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Cathay purchasing HK Express

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:47 pm

https://news.cathaypacific.com/cathay-p ... ss-airways

And it's official.

No change operation-wise (i.e. codeshare or cabin/flight crew movement) for now other than ownership. Will be interesting to see if CX eventually move more 2nd/3rd tier routes to UO, though (Probably at the expense of KA more than CX).
 
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hongkongflyer
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HKG based LCC HK Express now 100% owned by CX

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:11 pm

CX announced that the acquisition of former HU owned HKG Based LCC, HK Express, UO has been completed.
UO is now 100% owned by CX, the brand will continue to use within foreseeable future.

https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2019/0719/ltn201907191020.pdf
 
x1234
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Re: HKG based LCC HK Express now 100% owned by CX

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:21 pm

I wonder about CX's strategy for HK Express. I just realized they weren't in the HKG-SIN market (too many LCC's with Scoot (SG)and Jetstar (AU))!? But they serve markets like BKK & HKT.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: HKG based LCC HK Express now 100% owned by CX

Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:35 pm

x1234 wrote:
I wonder about CX's strategy for HK Express. I just realized they weren't in the HKG-SIN market (too many LCC's with Scoot (SG)and Jetstar (AU))!? But they serve markets like BKK & HKT.


Perhaps there are bilateral limits? HX doesn't fly to SIN, either.

"Too much LCC" certainly doesn't apply to HKG-SIN anyway - the LCC share is tiny comare to FSC.

BTW, UO just restarted BKK 4 months ago, so it's not like they're too focus on that route, either. Markets like HKT, CNX, CEI, DAD, and CXR (in SE Asia) along with all those secondary ports in Japan (i.e. NGS/KMJ/KOJ/TAK/HIJ) are where UO really shines anyway.

P.S. Predicting KMQ and TKS, both seasonal routes that were started by CX/KA (respectively) recently, to be flown by UO next year.
 
YLWbased
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Official: CX Group completed acquisition of HK Express (UO)

Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:45 am

I reckon since this is a done deal, it deserves an separate thread.

As of 19th July, 2019, HK Express (UO) becomes a fully own subsidiary of the Cathay Pacific Group, UO will continue as an independent operation for now.

Cathay Pacific Airways completed the takeover of Hong Kong’s only low-cost airline, HK Express, the company announced on Friday night, putting it in control of three of the city’s four commercial passenger airlines...

Cathay Pacific launched a takeover bid for HK Express, which had been backed by indebted Chinese conglomerate HNA Group, on March 27 and assumed full control of the business after paying HK$4.93 billion (US$630 million)...

HK Express, which started with just five planes in 2014, now flies 24 aircraft to 27 cities – carrying 4.1 million customers – with a heavy focus on flights to Japan and South Korea.


Source: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... y-low-cost

Existing UO Destinations:

Cambodia -
Siem Reap (KA)

China -
Ningbo (KA)

Japan -
Fukuoka (KA)
Hiroshima
New Ishigaki
Kagoshima
Nagasaki
Nagoya Centrair (CX)
Osaka-Kansai (CX)

Shimojishima
Takamatsu
Tokyo-NRT (CX)
Tokyo-HND (CX)
Naha (Beginning Soon) (KA)

United States (CNMI) -
Saipan

South Korea -
Seoul (CX)
Busan (KA)

Jeju

Taiwan -
Taichung (KA)
Hualien

Thailand -
Bangkok - BKK (CX)
Chiang Mai (KA)

Chiang Rai
Phuket (KA)

Vietnam -
Danang (KA)
Nha Trang


YLWbased
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Official: CX Group completed acquisition of HK Express (UO)

Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:51 am

Link to old thread...
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1418725

Just FYI UO no longer flies to HUN (Hualien). That route was hurt quite a bit by the earthquake in Feb 2018.
 
CXGabriel
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Re: Official: CX Group completed acquisition of HK Express (UO)

Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:52 pm

Now, you can redeem Asia Miles for HK Express flights; and a one-time offer to convert reward-U (HK Express reward program) to Asia Miles. Still looking for earning Asia Miles on HK Express...

https://www.asiamiles.com/en/welcomeu.html
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Official: CX Group completed acquisition of HK Express (UO)

Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:33 pm

I think UO will drop NRT / HND / NGO / BKK and let CX operate
Some of the short-haul Chinese and south Asia KA route like DVO / KWL / CSX / CNX will transfer to UO as well
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Official: CX Group completed acquisition of HK Express (UO)

Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:59 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
I think UO will drop NRT / HND / NGO / BKK and let CX operate
Some of the short-haul Chinese and south Asia KA route like DVO / KWL / CSX / CNX will transfer to UO as well


For HND - can UO even "transfer" those slots over to CX anyway? I don't see them dropping NRT - the market difference is enough.

CXGabriel wrote:
Now, you can redeem Asia Miles for HK Express flights; and a one-time offer to convert reward-U (HK Express reward program) to Asia Miles. Still looking for earning Asia Miles on HK Express...

https://www.asiamiles.com/en/welcomeu.html


The redemption is somewhat meh to me:
https://www.asiamiles.com/en/hk-express

For example, right now there's a promotion going on which HKG-Japan round trip tickets cost about HKD1500 (with tax included), which means 28k Asia Miles point, with no checked luggages/food included. For comparison, a Asia Miles Standard Award on CX will cost 10k points one way (so 20k total), and Choice Award (Which has more availability IIRC) will cost 30k points round trip, with 30kg checked luggages.

All these only b/c UO is running a promotion right now. Otherwise, a round trip ticket to/from Japan usually goes into HKD2000+ after tax is included.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Official: CX Group completed acquisition of HK Express (UO)

Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:05 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
I think UO will drop NRT / HND / NGO / BKK and let CX operate
Some of the short-haul Chinese and south Asia KA route like DVO / KWL / CSX / CNX will transfer to UO as well


For HND - can UO even "transfer" those slots over to CX anyway? I don't see them dropping NRT - the market difference is enough.

CXGabriel wrote:
Now, you can redeem Asia Miles for HK Express flights; and a one-time offer to convert reward-U (HK Express reward program) to Asia Miles. Still looking for earning Asia Miles on HK Express...

https://www.asiamiles.com/en/welcomeu.html


The redemption is somewhat meh to me:
https://www.asiamiles.com/en/hk-express

For example, right now there's a promotion going on which HKG-Japan round trip tickets cost about HKD1500 (with tax included), which means 28k Asia Miles point, with no checked luggages/food included. For comparison, a Asia Miles Standard Award on CX will cost 10k points one way (so 20k total), and Choice Award (Which has more availability IIRC) will cost 30k points round trip, with 30kg checked luggages.

All these only b/c UO is running a promotion right now. Otherwise, a round trip ticket to/from Japan usually goes into HKD2000+ after tax is included.



UO can codeshare the route and than “wet-lease” CX aircraft

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