NateGreat
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Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:28 am

Starting 9/1/2019, Delta Air Lines will deploy the Airbus A350 on one of their three daily ATL-AMS flights. This is Delta’s second transatlantic A350 route.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-new ... es-europe/
 
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flymco753
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:41 am

It's about time! ATL is a premier airport and deserves this kind of service. I could see them opening an A350 base in Atlanta eventually, with the aircraft making its appearance on routes like ATL-LHR, ATL-CDG, & ATL-FRA. The aircraft on ATL-LHR can go go JFK to get some A350 exposure in the JFK market.
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BA744PHX
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:51 am

flymco753 wrote:
It's about time! ATL is a premier airport and deserves this kind of service. I could see them opening an A350 base in Atlanta eventually, with the aircraft making its appearance on routes like ATL-LHR, ATL-CDG, & ATL-FRA. The aircraft on ATL-LHR can go go JFK to get some A350 exposure in the JFK market.

I have to ask what makes ATL a premier airport? Also poor choice of words, no one deserves any kind of service
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Atlwarrior
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:07 am

flymco753 wrote:
It's about time! ATL is a premier airport and deserves this kind of service. I could see them opening an A350 base in Atlanta eventually, with the aircraft making its appearance on routes like ATL-LHR, ATL-CDG, & ATL-FRA. The aircraft on ATL-LHR can go go JFK to get some A350 exposure in the JFK market.


Indeed ATL is a premier airport and deserves the best. I expect Heathow flights to be next.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:14 am

Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam. Those should be Pacific flown airplanes, Delta should have far more routes then their supply of A350 to fly them. United flies to all kinds of Asian cities from Newark but how many Pacific cities does Delta fly from JFK, Zero. How can that be ? JFK to Asia could use A350's like Detroit does to Asia. Delta has so many flights to AMS one has to wonder if they are " KLM USA". Delta should fly to Hong Kong( with an A350) which for some reason was stopped in October 2018. Northwest flew to HKG for decades and DL managed to ditch it in only a few years. While Delta Pan AM purchase has proven Fruitful their NW Asian merger has been a disaster.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:31 am

Without fully looking at the full schedules of the A350, some of these TATL flights may be a way to increase aircraft utilization between TPAC turns. Due to flight duration and arrival / departure times it’s not always possible to do exact same aircraft turns and may be prudent to schedule a shorter TATL flight turn.

Or with the delivery schedule they have an “extra” aircraft but not enough to do another TPAC flight that requires more than 1 frame per day.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:33 am

jfk777 wrote:
Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam. Those should be Pacific flown airplanes, Delta should have far more routes then their supply of A350 to fly them. United flies to all kinds of Asian cities from Newark but how many Pacific cities does Delta fly from JFK, Zero. How can that be ? JFK to Asia could use A350's like Detroit does to Asia. Delta has so many flights to AMS one has to wonder if they are " KLM USA". Delta should fly to Hong Kong( with an A350) which for some reason was stopped in October 2018. Northwest flew to HKG for decades and DL managed to ditch it in only a few years. While Delta Pan AM purchase has proven Fruitful their NW Asian merger has been a disaster.


Delta labels them as "their new flagship." Just because they kind of function as a 744 legacy NW replacement does not mean they should cover Legacy NW routes only. Along with the A330-900neos, this will help them replace their older jets. Plus, a competitive edge to Europe is important. You have AA flying 77W biz class and UA flying Polaris (admittedly not to AMS), so Delta's Suites product gives them an edge.
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NateGreat
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:40 am

jfk777 wrote:
Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam. Those should be Pacific flown airplanes, Delta should have far more routes then their supply of A350 to fly them. United flies to all kinds of Asian cities from Newark but how many Pacific cities does Delta fly from JFK, Zero. How can that be ? JFK to Asia could use A350's like Detroit does to Asia. Delta has so many flights to AMS one has to wonder if they are " KLM USA". Delta should fly to Hong Kong( with an A350) which for some reason was stopped in October 2018. Northwest flew to HKG for decades and DL managed to ditch it in only a few years. While Delta Pan AM purchase has proven Fruitful their NW Asian merger has been a disaster.

AA and UA fly their 77W to plenty of European cities. If the demand is there, Delta can fly the A350 to Europe.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:41 am

SEA-NRT is A350 until 8/30, A330neo from the next day. That extra A350 will be used for ATL-AMS. The routing appears to be DTW-AMS-ATL and VV, still anchored at DTW.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:12 am

HeeseokKoo wrote:
SEA-NRT is A350 until 8/30, A330neo from the next day. That extra A350 will be used for ATL-AMS. The routing appears to be DTW-AMS-ATL and VV, still anchored at DTW.


Yes ATL-AMS is only operating for 2 months it ends at the end of October.
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:38 am

Atlwarrior wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
It's about time! ATL is a premier airport and deserves this kind of service. I could see them opening an A350 base in Atlanta eventually, with the aircraft making its appearance on routes like ATL-LHR, ATL-CDG, & ATL-FRA. The aircraft on ATL-LHR can go go JFK to get some A350 exposure in the JFK market.


Indeed ATL is a premier airport and deserves the best. I expect Heathow flights to be next.


So the world's busiest airport and largest hub is not a premier airport? Please tell what qualifications that title requires? (Sorry, tagged the wrong post).
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NateGreat
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:01 am

HeeseokKoo wrote:
SEA-NRT is A350 until 8/30, A330neo from the next day. That extra A350 will be used for ATL-AMS. The routing appears to be DTW-AMS-ATL and VV, still anchored at DTW.

Where will the ATL-AMS A350 be shifted to once that routing ends at the end of October?
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:39 am

BA744PHX wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
It's about time! ATL is a premier airport and deserves this kind of service. I could see them opening an A350 base in Atlanta eventually, with the aircraft making its appearance on routes like ATL-LHR, ATL-CDG, & ATL-FRA. The aircraft on ATL-LHR can go go JFK to get some A350 exposure in the JFK market.

I have to ask what makes ATL a premier airport? Also poor choice of words, no one deserves any kind of service


It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:13 am

NateGreat wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam. Those should be Pacific flown airplanes, Delta should have far more routes then their supply of A350 to fly them. United flies to all kinds of Asian cities from Newark but how many Pacific cities does Delta fly from JFK, Zero. How can that be ? JFK to Asia could use A350's like Detroit does to Asia. Delta has so many flights to AMS one has to wonder if they are " KLM USA". Delta should fly to Hong Kong( with an A350) which for some reason was stopped in October 2018. Northwest flew to HKG for decades and DL managed to ditch it in only a few years. While Delta Pan AM purchase has proven Fruitful their NW Asian merger has been a disaster.

AA and UA fly their 77W to plenty of European cities. If the demand is there, Delta can fly the A350 to Europe.


DL A350's seat a whopping 11 seats more than their A333. Less about demand and more about aircraft scheduling until the NEO's start arriving.
 
danman132x
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:18 am

This is amazing! I really hope I get lucky and they change my plane to an A350 on my return flight. Doing flight 70 August 18th atl to ams, but returning Sept 17th Delta flight 75. Please be the A350 on that one!
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:40 am

danman132x wrote:
This is amazing! I really hope I get lucky and they change my plane to an A350 on my return flight. Doing flight 70 August 18th atl to ams, but returning Sept 17th Delta flight 75. Please be the A350 on that one!

Nope. the 359 is going on 70/71.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:47 am

It looks like starting October 27, DL will go down to 2x Daily to AMS, and KL will go up to 2x Daily. KL will also be putting the 787-10 on one their flights to ATL. I looked as far as February 2020, and what I stated above remains true. Just something interesting i found
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:05 am

AlexBrewster03 wrote:
It looks like starting October 27, DL will go down to 2x Daily to AMS, and KL will go up to 2x Daily. KL will also be putting the 787-10 on one their flights to ATL. I looked as far as February 2020, and what I stated above remains true. Just something interesting i found

ATL-AMS has been 2x daily in Winter and 3x daily in Summer for some years now. 333/777 mix in recent history.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:15 am

jfk777 wrote:
Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam. Those should be Pacific flown airplanes, Delta should have far more routes then their supply of A350 to fly them. United flies to all kinds of Asian cities from Newark but how many Pacific cities does Delta fly from JFK, Zero. How can that be ? JFK to Asia could use A350's like Detroit does to Asia. Delta has so many flights to AMS one has to wonder if they are " KLM USA". Delta should fly to Hong Kong( with an A350) which for some reason was stopped in October 2018. Northwest flew to HKG for decades and DL managed to ditch it in only a few years. While Delta Pan AM purchase has proven Fruitful their NW Asian merger has been a disaster.

You assume wayyyyy too much, in your criticism.

For all you know, this is just to coordinate with turning the aircraft due to the other TATL flight.
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flymco753
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:53 am

bravoindia wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
It's about time! ATL is a premier airport and deserves this kind of service. I could see them opening an A350 base in Atlanta eventually, with the aircraft making its appearance on routes like ATL-LHR, ATL-CDG, & ATL-FRA. The aircraft on ATL-LHR can go go JFK to get some A350 exposure in the JFK market.

I have to ask what makes ATL a premier airport? Also poor choice of words, no one deserves any kind of service


It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?
Statistics might not be as good as DTW & MSP with a push of less missed connects and delay ratios, but that's because they're good for the amount of traffic being pushed through. If it's not a winter weather event or thunderstorming, ATL works like a well oiled machine, regardless of how unfriendly their agents can be compared to SLC. Also, it's worth noting that if ATL wasnt a hub to someone, the airport would probably have mediocre service. Service is offered to every continent but Oceana and Antarctica, that's what makes ATL premier. I rank SLC, MSP, & DTW above ATL simply because of stellar D0 statistics, bag connect & passenger missed connection ratios. Those 3 things specifically are what do not make ATL part of my top 3 list of DL hubs, but a close 4th.
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:09 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam. Those should be Pacific flown airplanes, Delta should have far more routes then their supply of A350 to fly them. United flies to all kinds of Asian cities from Newark but how many Pacific cities does Delta fly from JFK, Zero. How can that be ? .


I'm pretty sure DL knows what they're doing. Not only that, but comparing DL to UA is quite laughable. DL is leagues above UA in the 'making money' department. I wouldn't worry to much about where DL is sending their 350's.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:32 pm

For all the people saying Atlanta will be getting more and more A350 routes. I highly doubt it. It will serve the premier routes like ATL-AMS and ATL-ICN, maybe even ATL-CDG someday, but when Delta gets their A330-NEOS we will see most routes get replaced with that.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:51 pm

bravoindia wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
It's about time! ATL is a premier airport and deserves this kind of service. I could see them opening an A350 base in Atlanta eventually, with the aircraft making its appearance on routes like ATL-LHR, ATL-CDG, & ATL-FRA. The aircraft on ATL-LHR can go go JFK to get some A350 exposure in the JFK market.

I have to ask what makes ATL a premier airport? Also poor choice of words, no one deserves any kind of service


It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?


While that may be true from an operations standpoint but from a customer standpoint it's a nightmare.
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:11 pm

klm617 wrote:
bravoindia wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
I have to ask what makes ATL a premier airport? Also poor choice of words, no one deserves any kind of service


It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?


While that may be true from an operations standpoint but from a customer standpoint it's a nightmare.

I don't know from which customer's standpoint. I honestly find ATL to be much more efficient that LAX, AMS or CDG.
Maybe to each their own...
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:15 pm

klm617 wrote:
bravoindia wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
I have to ask what makes ATL a premier airport? Also poor choice of words, no one deserves any kind of service


It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?


While that may be true from an operations standpoint but from a customer standpoint it's a nightmare.


ATL is not a nightmare in any way. I fly 30 roundtrips out of here a year. It has a few issues for sure. If ATL is a nightmare to you, I'd hate to see your reaction to what I call a nightmare.
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FB330
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:45 pm

Yes, KLM will be a 787-10 on one rotation and a mix of 787-10/772 on the other rotation. So, some interesting deployments coming up on ATL-AMS.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:56 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam. Those should be Pacific flown airplanes,


No problem. Just getting the most utilization out of each airframe. Keep in mind that Delta flew the 747 between Atlanta and Amsterdam only three summers ago.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:04 pm

BravoEchoNov wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam. Those should be Pacific flown airplanes,


No problem. Just getting the most utilization out of each airframe. Keep in mind that Delta flew the 747 between Atlanta and Amsterdam only three summers ago.


Yup, and DTW-AMS had on and off 747 service for years for the same reason.



If DL is going to fly airplanes to Europe between TPAC runs, it makes the most sense to fly them to AMS and CDG because the joint venture gives them the most capacity flexibility on other frequencies to those places.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:17 pm

Is there that much excessive premium demand for the ATL-AMS nonstop? Because I am sure DL will charge a hefty surcharge to fly in the new A350 suites.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:31 pm

NateGreat wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam. Those should be Pacific flown airplanes, Delta should have far more routes then their supply of A350 to fly them. United flies to all kinds of Asian cities from Newark but how many Pacific cities does Delta fly from JFK, Zero. How can that be ? JFK to Asia could use A350's like Detroit does to Asia. Delta has so many flights to AMS one has to wonder if they are " KLM USA". Delta should fly to Hong Kong( with an A350) which for some reason was stopped in October 2018. Northwest flew to HKG for decades and DL managed to ditch it in only a few years. While Delta Pan AM purchase has proven Fruitful their NW Asian merger has been a disaster.

AA and UA fly their 77W to plenty of European cities. If the demand is there, Delta can fly the A350 to Europe.


AA and UA actually don't fly the 77W to many European cities at all. AA flies the 77W to LHR only. No other AA station in Europe gets the 77W.

UA flies the 77W to FRA from SFO and has on occasion, flown it to FRA from IAD and EWR but not on a regular basis (EWR was March 2018 to July 2018 only). The 77W also is flown by UA on one EWR-TLV rotation.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:11 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Is there that much excessive premium demand for the ATL-AMS nonstop? Because I am sure DL will charge a hefty surcharge to fly in the new A350 suites.


Looking at "Z" fares, the surcharge is $100 each way. There's excellent availability via DTW through the rest of the year, but ATL is zero'd out below "D" - that won't last long...
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:30 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Delta has problems if they have to fly A350 to Amsterdam.

But they have been operating the type on the DL134/135 rotation from Detroit for some time now. Why not from Atlanta as well? I guess a combination of long and shorter flights keep these aircraft in the air as much as possible.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:17 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Is there that much excessive premium demand for the ATL-AMS nonstop? Because I am sure DL will charge a hefty surcharge to fly in the new A350 suites.

They can only charge what the market will reasonably bear, and DL's widebodies have relatively small J cabins compared to most of their competitors. Wouldn't be difficult for them.
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factsonly
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:25 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Is there that much excessive premium demand for the ATL-AMS nonstop? Because I am sure DL will charge a hefty surcharge to fly in the new A350 suites.


1. DL/KL set their ATL-AMS Business Class fees in a Joint Venture, irrespective of the airline operating or the seating. It is based on the fare bucket.
2. DL A350 has fewer Delta One seats (32 seats) than the A333 it replaces (34 seats).
2. DL/KL operate ATL-AMS 4x daily offering on average 4x34 C seats, for a total of 128 Business Class seats.
3. In summer Delta operates the B772 on ATL-AMS to offer even more Delta One seats (37 seats).

So one can conclude:

- Plenty of demand
- A350 reduces risk of empty seats.

BUSINESS CLASS SEATING:
- DL B772 = 37 seats
- DL A350 = 32 seats
- DL A333 = 34 seats
- DL A339 = 29 seats
- KL B789 = 30 seats
- KL B77W = 34 seats
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:49 pm

compensateme wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Is there that much excessive premium demand for the ATL-AMS nonstop? Because I am sure DL will charge a hefty surcharge to fly in the new A350 suites.


Looking at "Z" fares, the surcharge is $100 each way. There's excellent availability via DTW through the rest of the year, but ATL is zero'd out below "D" - that won't last long...


Yes, it seems so. From the fare rules:

SURCHARGE OF USD 100.00 PER DIRECTION WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL IN AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A350-900 EQUIPMENT.


However, I also noticed the following surcharge:

A SURCHARGE OF USD 100.00 PER DIRECTION WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL IN BOEING 777-200/200ER EQUIPMENT.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:26 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Without fully looking at the full schedules of the A350, some of these TATL flights may be a way to increase aircraft utilization between TPAC turns. Due to flight duration and arrival / departure times it’s not always possible to do exact same aircraft turns and may be prudent to schedule a shorter TATL flight turn.

Or with the delivery schedule they have an “extra” aircraft but not enough to do another TPAC flight that requires more than 1 frame per day.


:checkmark: This is the best response in the thread, IMO. An aircraft will be freed up from SEA-NRT when the 339 takes that route over, and there aren't really any other TPAC routes DL could operate with just one 359 frame besides SEA-Japan. Thus, a Europe route is a natural fit for utilizing the available frame until further deliveries occur.

DL is absolutely flying DTW-AMS on the 359 for utilization purposes - the timing works perfectly for a routing like PVG-DTW-AMS-DTW-ICN.
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:27 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Is there that much excessive premium demand for the ATL-AMS nonstop? Because I am sure DL will charge a hefty surcharge to fly in the new A350 suites.


Looking at "Z" fares, the surcharge is $100 each way. There's excellent availability via DTW through the rest of the year, but ATL is zero'd out below "D" - that won't last long...


Yes, it seems so. From the fare rules:

SURCHARGE OF USD 100.00 PER DIRECTION WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL IN AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A350-900 EQUIPMENT.


However, I also noticed the following surcharge:

A SURCHARGE OF USD 100.00 PER DIRECTION WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL IN BOEING 777-200/200ER EQUIPMENT.

777s flying around also have the suites (although I don’t know the exact % reconfigured right now), hence the surcharge.
 
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:56 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Without fully looking at the full schedules of the A350, some of these TATL flights may be a way to increase aircraft utilization between TPAC turns. Due to flight duration and arrival / departure times it’s not always possible to do exact same aircraft turns and may be prudent to schedule a shorter TATL flight turn.

Or with the delivery schedule they have an “extra” aircraft but not enough to do another TPAC flight that requires more than 1 frame per day.


I think you may be right. I have read that's why we get so many long haul a/c in Boston. It's a short hop across the pond from BOS, and it increases aircraft utilization. Plus it keeps flight crews up to date on their certifications.
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Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:10 pm

bravoindia wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
It's about time! ATL is a premier airport and deserves this kind of service. I could see them opening an A350 base in Atlanta eventually, with the aircraft making its appearance on routes like ATL-LHR, ATL-CDG, & ATL-FRA. The aircraft on ATL-LHR can go go JFK to get some A350 exposure in the JFK market.

I have to ask what makes ATL a premier airport? Also poor choice of words, no one deserves any kind of service


It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?


Keep in mind also ATLO doesn't have to deal with the traffic or weather of NYC, CHI or BOS which helps it's case as operationally a good airport.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:23 pm

klm617 wrote:
bravoindia wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
I have to ask what makes ATL a premier airport? Also poor choice of words, no one deserves any kind of service


It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?


Keep in mind also ATLO doesn't have to deal with the traffic or weather of NYC, CHI or BOS which helps it's case as operationally a good airport.


Do you have hard data to back your claim that ATL sees fewer weather IROP impacts than NYC, CHI, or BOS? I think I believe the claim in principle, but ATL gets frequent thunderstorms throughout the Spring and Summer in particular, and when you look at the Top 5 Most Disrupted U.S. Routes in 2017 for example you find that they're predominantly between airports that have exceptionally few weather issues (LAX, LAS in particular). Weather is but one piece of the disruption equation.

1. LAXSFO
2. SFOLAX
3. LASLAX
4. ORDLGA
5. JFKLAX
 
klm617
Posts: 4379
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:15 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
bravoindia wrote:

It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?


Keep in mind also ATLO doesn't have to deal with the traffic or weather of NYC, CHI or BOS which helps it's case as operationally a good airport.


Do you have hard data to back your claim that ATL sees fewer weather IROP impacts than NYC, CHI, or BOS? I think I believe the claim in principle, but ATL gets frequent thunderstorms throughout the Spring and Summer in particular, and when you look at the Top 5 Most Disrupted U.S. Routes in 2017 for example you find that they're predominantly between airports that have exceptionally few weather issues (LAX, LAS in particular). Weather is but one piece of the disruption equation.

1. LAXSFO
2. SFOLAX
3. LASLAX
4. ORDLGA
5. JFKLAX



Yes I understand that that's why I said weather and traffic delays. ATL has fewer bad days during the winter plus a lot less air traffic thus any real delay at ATL is caused by the operations meltdown. My mind was in the east coast when I made the comment but as you see all the delay prone routes are all hi traffic areas.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:45 pm

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Keep in mind also ATLO doesn't have to deal with the traffic or weather of NYC, CHI or BOS which helps it's case as operationally a good airport.


Do you have hard data to back your claim that ATL sees fewer weather IROP impacts than NYC, CHI, or BOS? I think I believe the claim in principle, but ATL gets frequent thunderstorms throughout the Spring and Summer in particular, and when you look at the Top 5 Most Disrupted U.S. Routes in 2017 for example you find that they're predominantly between airports that have exceptionally few weather issues (LAX, LAS in particular). Weather is but one piece of the disruption equation.

1. LAXSFO
2. SFOLAX
3. LASLAX
4. ORDLGA
5. JFKLAX



Yes I understand that that's why I said weather and traffic delays. ATL has fewer bad days during the winter plus a lot less air traffic thus any real delay at ATL is caused by the operations meltdown. My mind was in the east coast when I made the comment but as you see all the delay prone routes are all hi traffic areas.

Weather related delays are not reserved to winter; as stated, ATL has its fair share of bad weather that affect traffic (like tornadoes/high wind in the general area) or that stops any and all ground operation (like thunder), but it's in summer.

And, do you really believe ATL sees a lot less air traffic? Final (worldwide) numbers for 2017 (no numbers for 2018 yet) according to the Airports Council International say ATL was #1 with 879,560 movements, LAX #3 with 700,362 movement; ORD was #2 with 867,049 movements, no NYC airport or BOS in the top 20.

Last thing: the poor weather that the NE US sees is generally well handled thanks the equipment present (machines). On the other hand, the poor weather that ATL sees mandates full stop of ground operations or extremely reduced air traffic; this is not ATL deciding or not being prepared, it's life-or-death situation (if tornadoes) or OSHA mandate (during thunder activity).
 
winginit
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:15 pm

klm617 wrote:
ATL has fewer bad days during the winter plus a lot less air traffic


I’m quite sure the underlined portion of your claim is not factual. Again - numbers please or mark your claim as speculative. You know, per forum rules.
 
klm617
Posts: 4379
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:34 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
ATL has fewer bad days during the winter plus a lot less air traffic


I’m quite sure the underlined portion of your claim is not factual. Again - numbers please or mark your claim as speculative. You know, per forum rules.


Yes the air traffic around Southern California, Chicago and New York is much more dense than around Atlanta. In the Atlanta area there is only ATL. In Southern California there is LAX, BUR, LGB, SNA, and ONT. New York City there is LGA, EWR and JFK and Chicago there is MDW and ORD combine those numbers and everyone is greater than the ATL air traffic. Don't need numbers for that it's a common known fact. Why do you think some of those airports are slot controlled.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 3853
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:34 pm

factsonly wrote:
BUSINESS CLASS SEATING:
- DL B772 = 37 seats

This doesn't exist anymore. All of DL 772s now have 28 biz seats. Some 77Ls still have 37 seats but their numbers are diminishing every day.
 
klm617
Posts: 4379
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:37 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:

Do you have hard data to back your claim that ATL sees fewer weather IROP impacts than NYC, CHI, or BOS? I think I believe the claim in principle, but ATL gets frequent thunderstorms throughout the Spring and Summer in particular, and when you look at the Top 5 Most Disrupted U.S. Routes in 2017 for example you find that they're predominantly between airports that have exceptionally few weather issues (LAX, LAS in particular). Weather is but one piece of the disruption equation.

1. LAXSFO
2. SFOLAX
3. LASLAX
4. ORDLGA
5. JFKLAX



Yes I understand that that's why I said weather and traffic delays. ATL has fewer bad days during the winter plus a lot less air traffic thus any real delay at ATL is caused by the operations meltdown. My mind was in the east coast when I made the comment but as you see all the delay prone routes are all hi traffic areas.

Weather related delays are not reserved to winter; as stated, ATL has its fair share of bad weather that affect traffic (like tornadoes/high wind in the general area) or that stops any and all ground operation (like thunder), but it's in summer.

And, do you really believe ATL sees a lot less air traffic? Final (worldwide) numbers for 2017 (no numbers for 2018 yet) according to the Airports Council International say ATL was #1 with 879,560 movements, LAX #3 with 700,362 movement; ORD was #2 with 867,049 movements, no NYC airport or BOS in the top 20.

Last thing: the poor weather that the NE US sees is generally well handled thanks the equipment present (machines). On the other hand, the poor weather that ATL sees mandates full stop of ground operations or extremely reduced air traffic; this is not ATL deciding or not being prepared, it's life-or-death situation (if tornadoes) or OSHA mandate (during thunder activity).



Combine all the traffic in the LA Basin the two airports in Chicago and the three in New York all have more movements than ATL does.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:44 pm

bravoindia wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
It's about time! ATL is a premier airport and deserves this kind of service. I could see them opening an A350 base in Atlanta eventually, with the aircraft making its appearance on routes like ATL-LHR, ATL-CDG, & ATL-FRA. The aircraft on ATL-LHR can go go JFK to get some A350 exposure in the JFK market.

I have to ask what makes ATL a premier airport? Also poor choice of words, no one deserves any kind of service


It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?

Safe would apply to every airport, efficient is debatable.

Personally I wouldn't call an airport premier when only 10 international airlines fly in (5 of which are ST), yes its currently the largest passenger airport (subject to change in the very near future). I would say Premier airports are JFK, LHR, NRT, HKG, PVG, LAX, ORD, YYZ, MIA, SYD, DXB all of which are major hubs and also face competition on majority of their INTL routes. ATL is 90% (i know my number is wrong) all by DL, what I'm trying to say is you don't see airlines knocking at ATL door to provide service. Thats why I would never stat its a premier airport.

Again thats just me, not trying to argue just stating an opinion.
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WayexTDI
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:01 pm

klm617 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
klm617 wrote:


Yes I understand that that's why I said weather and traffic delays. ATL has fewer bad days during the winter plus a lot less air traffic thus any real delay at ATL is caused by the operations meltdown. My mind was in the east coast when I made the comment but as you see all the delay prone routes are all hi traffic areas.

Weather related delays are not reserved to winter; as stated, ATL has its fair share of bad weather that affect traffic (like tornadoes/high wind in the general area) or that stops any and all ground operation (like thunder), but it's in summer.

And, do you really believe ATL sees a lot less air traffic? Final (worldwide) numbers for 2017 (no numbers for 2018 yet) according to the Airports Council International say ATL was #1 with 879,560 movements, LAX #3 with 700,362 movement; ORD was #2 with 867,049 movements, no NYC airport or BOS in the top 20.

Last thing: the poor weather that the NE US sees is generally well handled thanks the equipment present (machines). On the other hand, the poor weather that ATL sees mandates full stop of ground operations or extremely reduced air traffic; this is not ATL deciding or not being prepared, it's life-or-death situation (if tornadoes) or OSHA mandate (during thunder activity).



Combine all the traffic in the LA Basin the two airports in Chicago and the three in New York all have more movements than ATL does.

Snow affects ground movements much more than air traffic; so, the Los Angeles area (which doesn't see snow on the regular), the Chicago area and the New York area can operate more efficiently than if the same snow would hit ATL.
And then again, snow slows down ground operations, but does not stop them; thunder activity, on the other hand, will stop ground operations. And thunder activity can last for hours, having a snowball effect (irony, eh?) which takes a long time to recover.
 
winginit
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:51 am

klm617 wrote:
Combine all the traffic in the LA Basin the two airports in Chicago and the three in New York all have more movements than ATL does.


Great. Go ahead and do that math for us to back your claim. We'll wait.
 
bravoindia
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: Delta to start ATL-AMS with A350

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:54 am

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
bravoindia wrote:

It’s the most efficient airport in the world, while moving the most people. Efficient and safe. Both are envious traits in the aviation world so go ahead and explain how it is not “premier” ?


Keep in mind also ATLO doesn't have to deal with the traffic or weather of NYC, CHI or BOS which helps it's case as operationally a good airport.


Do you have hard data to back your claim that ATL sees fewer weather IROP impacts than NYC, CHI, or BOS? I think I believe the claim in principle, but ATL gets frequent thunderstorms throughout the Spring and Summer in particular, and when you look at the Top 5 Most Disrupted U.S. Routes in 2017 for example you find that they're predominantly between airports that have exceptionally few weather issues (LAX, LAS in particular). Weather is but one piece of the disruption equation.

1. LAXSFO
2. SFOLAX
3. LASLAX
4. ORDLGA
5. JFKLAX



ATL in comparison to ORD/DFW/NYC etc does see more weather on a more consistent basis. But with that comes preparation as well as experience. Unless wind shear, hail etc hits directly on the airport ( which usually passes thru quickly ) they don’t stop very often. You may see Scope 1 or sometimes a Scope 2 Ground stop but it doesn’t last for long.

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