YYZORD
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NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:38 am

NH's Mid-Term Corporate Strategy for FY2018-2022 mentions that the airline wants to expand their network by creating more routes that connect asia to north america. I'm assuming that we will see some existing route increases along with new routes in Canada & USA by 2020-2022 once there are new slots at both HND and NRT. For new routes, all I can think of that NH can add in North America is both DEN and YYZ. LAS I was considering but its not a star alliance hub like DEN and YYZ and can be served through one stops like YVR, SFO, and LAX. Is there anything NH can add in North America in 2020 other than DEN and YYZ? What about Asia route expansion?

South America I was thinking that NH for now can maybe get fifth freedom rights and serve one major south american destination from either YVR or YYZ like how CX does from YVR to JFK and CZ from YVR to MEX but it could be a long shot.

https://www.ana.co.jp/group/en/about-us/strategy/
 
c933103
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:57 am

Some of these graphs seems to be simply copy pasted from the previous year report
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RainerBoeing777
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:59 am

Toronto (YYZ), Denver (DEN), Newark (EWR), Calgary (YYC) would be potential destinations
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Dieuwer
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:59 am

BOS??
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:25 am

Phoenix has a chance...
 
as739x
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:29 am

PHX doesn't have a chance. It's a OneWorld hub and would be AA/JL if anyone. The local traffic wouldn't meet the demand without feed that NH doesn't have in Phoenix
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maps4ltd
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:29 am

LAS? TATL and TPAC have both grown. And you saw AA put in its request for HND-LAS...
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2travel2know2
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:00 am

YYZORD wrote:
...
South America I was thinking that NH for now can maybe get fifth freedom rights and serve one major South American destination from either YVR or YYZ like how CX does from YVR to JFK and CZ from YVR to MEX but it could be a long shot.
...
PTY (and Star Alliance CM) has been after NH for a while.
It'd have to be via a U.S. airport, even if U.S. visas will be required for in-transit passengers, unless routed via ANC (!).
Via a Canadian airport would really make the flight unattractive to most Latin Americans.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
dcajet
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:01 am

YYZORD wrote:
NH's Mid-Term Corporate Strategy for FY2018-2022 mentions that the airline wants to expand their network by creating more routes that connect asia to north america. I'm assuming that we will see some existing route increases along with new routes in Canada & USA by 2020-2022 once there are new slots at both HND and NRT. For new routes, all I can think of that NH can add in North America is both DEN and YYZ. LAS I was considering but its not a star alliance hub like DEN and YYZ and can be served through one stops like YVR, SFO, and LAX. Is there anything NH can add in North America in 2020 other than DEN and YYZ? What about Asia route expansion?

South America I was thinking that NH for now can maybe get fifth freedom rights and serve one major south american destination from either YVR or YYZ like how CX does from YVR to JFK and CZ from YVR to MEX but it could be a long shot.

https://www.ana.co.jp/group/en/about-us/strategy/


Not in South America, but NH already serves MEX from NRT. The only South American destination with a chance of making it has to be Sao Paulo GRU. That said, there is plenty of competition to Japan already, with QR, EK, AC & the US3 all fighting for a piece of the Japan-Brazil market, the largest in the region. Not exactly a gold mine for ANA (as it wasn't for JAL or VARIG back in the day).
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klm617
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:06 am

With all the traffic between Detroit and Japan due to the automotive industry perhaps DTW-NRT would be a good bet with the Japan based customer traffic not to mention the automotive cargo that would be the icing on the cake. 4 weekly to start.
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:22 am

AUS?
 
ANA787
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:23 am

PDX?
 
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janders
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:25 am

NH awaits its HND 2020 slots and then can act.
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CarlosSi
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:30 am

Likely would be any unserved Star Alliance hubs (DEN, EWR). Then maybe something out West: SAN (unlikely), LA Basin airports (ONT), LAS (very likely). Everything else doesn't seem to have as much luck (DFW, ATL, SLC, DTW).
 
N174UA
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Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:35 am

    ANA787 wrote:
    PDX?


    Not impossible, but very unlikely. ANA would want feed from its Star Alliance partner in PDX, which is UA, but UA has a much smaller footprint now in PDX than it did 10, 15 years ago. DL has a long history of operating PDX-TYO, and should DL not be awarded PDX-HND, then its a possibility. JL has its partner AS, so I would think JL would start HND-PDX before NH did.

    ANA Cargo is interested in PDX, so who knows.

    My pick would be DEN, to compliment UA's service.
     
    TTailedTiger
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:36 am

    ANA787 wrote:
    PDX?


    Yes, they would be a much better fit for PDX than Delta. Delta has no feed on either end of their flight.
     
    RichardWelling
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:43 am

    I am excited about their North American freighter ops. I wonder if they will expand into JFK and LAXfor their next freighter gateway.
     
    N174UA
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:43 am

    TTailedTiger wrote:
    ANA787 wrote:
    PDX?


    Yes, they would be a much better fit for PDX than Delta. Delta has no feed on either end of their flight.


    Currently, PDX-NRT offers connections to MNL and SIN on the NRT end. We'll see what happens with SIN and MNL once HND slots for US carriers are determined.

    DL is well established in PDX, and has a far greater feed than UA does in PDX.
     
    LH658
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:55 am

    RDU, DTW, YYC, YYZ, YEG, MIA, ATL, PDX, DEN, AUS, and CLT all i can think of.
     
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    TWA772LR
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:09 am

    2travel2know2 wrote:
    YYZORD wrote:
    ...
    South America I was thinking that NH for now can maybe get fifth freedom rights and serve one major South American destination from either YVR or YYZ like how CX does from YVR to JFK and CZ from YVR to MEX but it could be a long shot.
    ...
    PTY (and Star Alliance CM) has been after NH for a while.
    It'd have to be via a U.S. airport, even if U.S. visas will be required for in-transit passengers, unless routed via ANC (!).
    Via a Canadian airport would really make the flight unattractive to most Latin Americans.

    Per the DOT, UA has separate JV's with NH and CM. Merging those JVs into a big three-way would be a slam dunk and guarantee service for TYO-PTY, and give them a huge boost in the Latin America to East Asia market; even enabling all the secondary Latin cities CM flies to to have one-stop service to Tokyo. United can keep the slice of the pie to the big cities they currently fly to from IAH and let CM handle the secondary cities as far as handling pax from NH is concerned. Plus Panama itself is becoming a strong regional economy.

    At 8410 miles, it's definitely doable in a 789.
    http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=nrt-pty,+sfo-sin
    NRT-PTY with SFO-SIN for comparison.
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    ronmk1986
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:22 am

    klm617 wrote:
    With all the traffic between Detroit and Japan due to the automotive industry perhaps DTW-NRT would be a good bet with the Japan based customer traffic not to mention the automotive cargo that would be the icing on the cake. 4 weekly to start.


    IMHO, Delta has already firmly established NRT-DTW route for O&D traffic both from Tokyo and Detroit (not to mention connecting traffic beyond DTW). Plus, DL also flies NGO from their fortress hub (That is DTW, inherited from Northwest), and I guess this can be another big hurdle for Japanese carriers to start Japan (I'll say mostly Tokyo)-Detroit non-stop flight.
    Last edited by ronmk1986 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
     
    BML87
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:24 am

    YEG
     
    myspaceiscool
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:51 am

    ANC?
     
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    TWA772LR
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:56 am

    myspaceiscool wrote:
    ANC?

    It'd be very ambitious. If it does come to fruition it'd be on a 788 or even a 763 and less than daily.

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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:28 am

    2travel2know2 wrote:
    PTY (and Star Alliance CM) has been after NH for a while.
    It'd have to be via a U.S. airport, even if U.S. visas will be required for in-transit passengers, unless routed via ANC (!).
    Via a Canadian airport would really make the flight unattractive to most Latin Americans.

    Not necessarily. Their 789s should be able to do it nonstop, if they push the envelope.

    Westbound would be dicey, but still sorter than the likes of SFO-SIN and PER-LHR, which are current 789 nonstops.

    The prospect of making money, on the other hand........



    LH658 wrote:
    RDU AUS CLT

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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:09 am

    ronmk1986 wrote:
    klm617 wrote:
    With all the traffic between Detroit and Japan due to the automotive industry perhaps DTW-NRT would be a good bet with the Japan based customer traffic not to mention the automotive cargo that would be the icing on the cake. 4 weekly to start.


    IMHO, Delta has already firmly established NRT-DTW route for O&D traffic both from Tokyo and Detroit (not to mention connecting traffic beyond DTW). Plus, DL also flies NGO from their fortress hub (That is DTW, inherited from Northwest), and I guess this can be another big hurdle for Japanese carriers to start Japan (I'll say mostly Tokyo)-Detroit non-stop flight.



    DL hates Detroit... clearly room for more flights, but DL won't expand frequencies because of some unknown deep hatred for DTW. :duck:
     
    bhxalex
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:11 am

    ANC summer seasonal 3-4 weekly 763/788 even in regional/domestic configuration should make money.
     
    AntonioMartin
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:49 am

    as739x wrote:
    PHX doesn't have a chance. It's a OneWorld hub and would be AA/JL if anyone. The local traffic wouldn't meet the demand without feed that NH doesn't have in Phoenix

    Unfortunately, you are (mostly) right.

    But, you never know...I keep my fingers crossed...though we do have an ANA 787 nearby at the Tucson aviation museum...:)

    On the other hand, they don't serve San Diego or Tijuana which they could serve to compete with JAL on the Tokyo-San Diego run....
     
    77H
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:09 am

    2travel2know2 wrote:
    YYZORD wrote:
    ...
    South America I was thinking that NH for now can maybe get fifth freedom rights and serve one major South American destination from either YVR or YYZ like how CX does from YVR to JFK and CZ from YVR to MEX but it could be a long shot.
    ...
    PTY (and Star Alliance CM) has been after NH for a while.
    It'd have to be via a U.S. airport, even if U.S. visas will be required for in-transit passengers, unless routed via ANC (!).
    Via a Canadian airport would really make the flight unattractive to most Latin Americans.


    Why would via Canada be less attractive than via the US or ME ?

    Flying NRT-DXB-GRU is 10,914 nm GC, while NRT-YYZ-GRU is only 9,984 nm GC, identical to NRT-EWR-GRU and 6 nm shorter than via ORD. Routing via the ME adds just under 2 hrs of flying time. Beyond that, the ME3 have a small presence in Japan where FF loyalty undoubtedly favors JL, NH and associated Alliance and JV partners such as AA and UA. If you’re traveling nearly half way around the planet, might as well accrue miles on an airline (alliance) your most likely to use again.

    I haven’t seen it mentioned yet so I’ll throw KOA in the mix of potential new NorAm routes. While not a part of NorAm continent proper, Hawaii is geopolitically part of NorAm and HNL (existing route) is considered as part of the Americas region by NH. Even though JL and HA (3x weekly) both serve KOA from TYO there may be room enough for NH with 763 or 788 even if less than daily. After all, KOA is one of the most popular US destinations for Japanese travelers.

    I could also see YYZ being added. Not sure about DEN or EWR. While NRT-DEN sees decent load factors (at least every time I’ve taken it or looked to book it) I’d imagine UA would simply upgauge to a 789 before having a second flight added under the JV. Additionally EWR seems like a long shot considering NH already serves NYC at JFK. Is the TYO-NYC market large enough to have 4x 77W operating daily (2x NH @ EWR&JFK + 1x JL @ JFK and 1x UA @ EWR)? If additional demand exists why do neither AA or DL serve the route from their international gateways at JFK?

    77H
     
    airbazar
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:45 am

    I can't imagine why they'd go into a market that's already served unless the market is so large that it warrants a second *A carrier.
    From this Spring, *A will be the only alliance lacking a non-stop to Asia from BOS. OW has CX and JL, SkyT has KE. To me that would be an obvious addition for NH to make and i'm not saying that just because I'm from Boston :)
     
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:06 pm

    ronmk1986 wrote:
    klm617 wrote:
    With all the traffic between Detroit and Japan due to the automotive industry perhaps DTW-NRT would be a good bet with the Japan based customer traffic not to mention the automotive cargo that would be the icing on the cake. 4 weekly to start.


    IMHO, Delta has already firmly established NRT-DTW route for O&D traffic both from Tokyo and Detroit (not to mention connecting traffic beyond DTW). Plus, DL also flies NGO from their fortress hub (That is DTW, inherited from Northwest), and I guess this can be another big hurdle for Japanese carriers to start Japan (I'll say mostly Tokyo)-Detroit non-stop flight.
    It would have to be some kind of Japanese LCC that would be the most logical next move for this city pair. Think about it, having another full service carrier won't change the yields and won't be able to take from DL, anyone offering a lower cost will. The 787 is the right kind of plane too.
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    ac33e
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:13 pm

    airbazar wrote:
    I can't imagine why they'd go into a market that's already served unless the market is so large that it warrants a second *A carrier.
    From this Spring, *A will be the only alliance lacking a non-stop to Asia from BOS. OW has CX and JL, SkyT has KE. To me that would be an obvious addition for NH to make and i'm not saying that just because I'm from Boston :)


    AC through YUL/YYZ are simple *A 1 stop connections from BOS. There is no *A feed in BOS to specifically warrant a direct *A flight from BOS to TYO.
     
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:05 pm

    ac33e wrote:
    airbazar wrote:
    I can't imagine why they'd go into a market that's already served unless the market is so large that it warrants a second *A carrier.
    From this Spring, *A will be the only alliance lacking a non-stop to Asia from BOS. OW has CX and JL, SkyT has KE. To me that would be an obvious addition for NH to make and i'm not saying that just because I'm from Boston :)


    AC through YUL/YYZ are simple *A 1 stop connections from BOS. There is no *A feed in BOS to specifically warrant a direct *A flight from BOS to TYO.


    B6 feed from interline agreement, UA spokes though all served from NRT/HND anyways, CM to PTY, and regardless of the feed a large BOS O+D market to Asia.
    Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

    2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
     
    ac33e
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:15 pm

    adamh8297 wrote:
    ac33e wrote:
    airbazar wrote:
    I can't imagine why they'd go into a market that's already served unless the market is so large that it warrants a second *A carrier.
    From this Spring, *A will be the only alliance lacking a non-stop to Asia from BOS. OW has CX and JL, SkyT has KE. To me that would be an obvious addition for NH to make and i'm not saying that just because I'm from Boston :)


    AC through YUL/YYZ are simple *A 1 stop connections from BOS. There is no *A feed in BOS to specifically warrant a direct *A flight from BOS to TYO.


    B6 feed from interline agreement, UA spokes though all served from NRT/HND anyways, CM to PTY, and regardless of the feed a large BOS O+D market to Asia.

    If CM cnx is so high yielding, once again it can connect in YYZ/YUL. BOS is poorly located for Asia connections compared to other Eastern hubs.
     
    kavok
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:34 pm

    Don’t forget that NH is likely getting about 6 new USA slots into HND. That is probably the growth they are referring to when discussing this 2020 expansion.

    At this point, NH is going to probably wait and see which locations the US DOT awards HND slots to, and then make a decision. UA put in a bid for 6 slot pairs (HND-EWR/ORD/IAD/LAX/IAH/GUM). I fully expect NH to launch any and all of UAs bids that are not chosen by the DOT.

    Beyond that, I could possibly see another SFO frequency, and maybe HND-HNL/DEN. That leaves at most 1 or 2 other locations depending again on how many slots UA receives.
    Last edited by kavok on Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
     
    tphuang
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:36 pm

    Probably never going to happen, but I'm hoping for a flight from JFK to CTS
     
    dolphinflyer
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:55 pm

    SMF!
     
    emuwarveteran
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:57 pm

    klm617 wrote:
    With all the traffic between Detroit and Japan due to the automotive industry perhaps DTW-NRT would be a good bet with the Japan based customer traffic not to mention the automotive cargo that would be the icing on the cake. 4 weekly to start.


    Breaking news: ANA starts 7x weekly direct flights from Narita to Detroit. Route will be operated by the new A380 and will serve the 9 Japanese people who live in Detroit as well as weeaboos
    CL CRJ9, W6 A320
     
    SDFguy
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:01 pm

    According to the IND fanboys, NH was supposed to announce a flight to IND by the end of 2018, because airport officials promised a flight to Asia by then and also because NH's colors matched some displays at the airport. So, I'm SURE NH is thinking about IND as well, lol.
     
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:27 pm

    AntonioMartin wrote:
    Phoenix has a chance...


    No if anyone were to fly to Tokyo from PHX it’d be either JAL or AA.
     
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:29 pm

    dolphinflyer wrote:
    SMF!


    I’m in the 1st period at school(With free time) but i’d like to thank you for making me laugh
     
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:33 pm

    LH658 wrote:
    RDU, DTW, YYC, YYZ, YEG, MIA, ATL, PDX, DEN, AUS, and CLT all i can think of.


    YYC, not likely given *A partner AC already flies it.
     
    YYZORD
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:27 pm

    I think YYZ is in NH's top list to serve in 2020 as AC only serves HND year round from YYZ while NRT you have to stop in YYC and its only seasonal. I think NH can help AC replace that NRT seasonal route to year round direct while AC uses that 777-300ER for another route. This frees up some long haul frames for AC as now they seem to be running out of long haul aircrafts to grow their long haul operation.
     
    lavalampluva
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:06 pm

    I can't see DTW getting it. NH has no direct feed and DL connecting traffic won't switch to NH. I'm sure that what automotive contracts exist will stick with DL. There are many more NA cities which are far more underserved. I know that DTW fanboys are hoping for a backup in case the DTW-HND falls through.

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    zakuivcustom
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:34 pm

    tphuang wrote:
    Probably never going to happen, but I'm hoping for a flight from JFK to CTS


    Considering that there's not even a flight to NYC from KIX (or NGO for that matter), CTS is way down the list.
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    Dieuwer
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:35 pm

    BOS is a must.
     
    airbazar
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:57 pm

    ac33e wrote:
    airbazar wrote:
    I can't imagine why they'd go into a market that's already served unless the market is so large that it warrants a second *A carrier.
    From this Spring, *A will be the only alliance lacking a non-stop to Asia from BOS. OW has CX and JL, SkyT has KE. To me that would be an obvious addition for NH to make and i'm not saying that just because I'm from Boston :)


    AC through YUL/YYZ are simple *A 1 stop connections from BOS. There is no *A feed in BOS to specifically warrant a direct *A flight from BOS to TYO.


    Why bother when I can fly non-stop with JL?
    Conx are mostly irrelevant in BOS which is 95% O&D but they can do what JL does: code-share with B6.
     
    ITSTours
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:47 pm

    Canadian routes make sense. It is reported that ANA even wants a 3-way JV with AC (but UA hesitates).
     
    YYZORD
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    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:48 pm

    That would work great cause AC and UA are planning a JV themselves, if NH is added to that, this would be a game changer to Asia-North America market. Any link to this information?

    ITSTours wrote:
    Canadian routes make sense. It is reported that ANA even wants a 3-way JV with AC (but UA hesitates).
     
    AntonioMartin
    Posts: 530
    Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

    Re: NH expanding North America routes in 2020

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:06 pm

    Planes4you wrote:
    AntonioMartin wrote:
    Phoenix has a chance...


    No if anyone were to fly to Tokyo from PHX it’d be either JAL or AA.


    I agree..and in such case I'd prefer it be JAL and not AA.

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