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Re: Harbour Air poised to start worlds first all electric fleet

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:19 pm

ssteve wrote:
If these planes are currently using leaded avgas, it makes the improvement even nicer.

The Beavers would be which is one of what they have converted so far. The Otters, Twin Otters, and their one Grand Caravan are all turboprop. Define toy and improvement over that nasty avgas for sure.
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Re: Harbour Air poised to start worlds first all electric fleet

Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:05 pm

what proportion of the cost of a Beaver is the engine and the airframe? these motors look like they will be considerably cheaper than a plane engine to purchase and batteries are at a bit over 100dollars per kw/h with slow but steady improvement in density and price.
I note that the motors don't even have reduction gearboxes on them so that is a lot of weight and surface area removed.

An aggressive dominant airport in a country could near wipe out regional airports if they incentivise a larger version of an electric airplane.
Incentivise this plane and for example and Dublin could steal two to three million passengers off the rest of the airports on the Island of Ireland while also generating an additional few million in traffic won at the expense of rail and road.
The larger planes aren't there yet but they don't need to be orders of magnitude better than this plane so it is no great leap.
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Re: Harbour Air poised to start worlds first all electric fleet

Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:33 pm

We travel in this area with some frequency. Getting from Victoria to Vancouver is a pain in the *ss. Fast ferry is $$$, regular ferry from Sidney is a long trip: ground, standing in line, longish ferry ride (next ferry if your are lucky), ground. By car think* 3.5 hours, bus 4.5 Air is more expensive. Despite all of this Vancouver Island is booming. Even relatively inexpensive air could make that growth explosive.

*google maps
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Re: The world’s first electric seaplane takes flight in Vancoucer

Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:25 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
pune wrote:
There have been quite a few topics which have been talking about electric planes and I have been seeing them but it all seems random a bit, maybe if somebody were to move all the news to one section, one corner, it would have more visibility. For e.g. the Air Race E and airbus involvement as a founding partner which I guess was also shared in one of the threads would be nice to have it all in one corner so no news is missed of who's doing what in the space of electric planes.

Having an electric aviation thread sounds great. Want to start one and link it to this thread?

Dominion301, you are the elder one so I guess you should be the one to do it, I'll share whatever little I come across :)
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Re: Harbour Air poised to start worlds first all electric fleet

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:59 am

Some calculations I was doing:

MagniX lists the weight of their motor at 297 lbs. The engine for the Beaver is listed on Wikipedia as 640 lbs.

The motor is capable of more power than the stock engine (460 hp vs 750 hp), but I assume it cruises at a similar power level. If the prop allows it, the extra power might provide better takeoff performance.

A flight operations manual I searched up for the conventional Beaver indicates a rated cruising power of 300 hp and an economic cruising power of 240 hp. If the 30 minutes planned + 30 minutes reserve flight time is at that lower rating, then assuming 200 Wh/kg for the battery weight (better than Tesla) would only leave 470 pounds worth of payload after accounting for the lighter motor.

If the reserve is determined at half the cruise power rating (probably a little over 80 mph, vs. a flaps-up stall speed of 60 mph), then the payload is a somewhat more reasonable 960 pounds, but that's still only 137 lbs per occupant. I am thinking they must have found more weight to save than just in the motor, and perhaps some aerodynamic improvement, too.

The 30 minute planned range should be about 60 miles.

The standard Beaver has a rated range of 405 miles, based on 45 minutes of reserve at cruise power, and a 1530 lb payload.

It appears Harbour Air is accepting a lot of compromises with this project,. However, it does indeed seem they can reach a lot of their current destinations, and the fuel and perhaps also maintenance savings might be enough recoup their conversion cost.
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Re: Harbour Air poised to start worlds first all electric fleet

Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:19 pm

AirFiero wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
This would be a logical place to start, and part of that in both cities seaplanes land almost at city center, Victoria right in front of the parliament building.

And when the batteries run out, they simply drop into the water! :lol:

I am guessing they would work just like a glider and gracefully be in sea. Of course, if the sea is stormy they may have issues, otherwise they could just do it like a paddle-boat. I did see the video of when it was flown for the first time in December 2019 and the CEO said they hope the standard type certification is given by late 2021. He does mention he is looking at improvements in battery technology. Of course Tesla battery technology day is nearish so we never know. Overall, would be a good place to watch for.
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Re: Harbour Air poised to start worlds first all electric fleet

Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:19 pm

A cessna 185 would weigh about 2/3 of a DH-2 (albeit only seating 5 pax). maybe not enough volume or trouble distributing batter weight?

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