WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:02 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
Awesome news minutes ago ¡¡¡
Lh plans to buy more than 100 frames :
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-lufth ... KKCN1R72A2

I simply cannot believe everyone is falling for this cheap trick.

Dear Lufthansa
Our beloved 737MAX is in a real hole (two holes actually, one is in Ethiopia, …)
We desperately need some fake news to distract everybody from what is currently happening.

787 battery bruhaha and the NTSB report due on a Saturday
brought the announcement of Air Berlin buying more 789 on Wednesday.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130308105827/https://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2013/03/07/boeing-still-receiving-787-orders-as-ntsb-still-cant-figure-out-cause-of-battery-fire/
Air Berlin didn't even know about it.
( AB was in dire straits at the time and trying to convert|delay their 788 order. taken down altogether as a final solution.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:08 pm

was this already mentioned:
Reuters, first para, changed wrote:
Deutsche Lufthansa AG plans to buy a triple-digit number of either Boeing 737 MAX or Airbus A320neo jetliners to replace jets in its fleet, Chief Executive Carsten Spohr said on Tuesday.


going MAX for expansion I could understand. Going MAX for replacement less so !?
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5456
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:34 pm

My initial reaction was that including Boeing in this was just window dressing. But on second thought maybe not. LH is big enough that having a mixed NB fleet is not a problem, and may have some advantages, most notably in negotiations. LH management is also knowledgeable enough that they realize that the MAX issues are temporary and will be resolved. So while I still give Airbus the edge, I do not discount the possibility that it may go to Boeing.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
dennys
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:37 pm

Well , I might have missed one step , but I wish 737-700 Max shall be launched by LUFTHANSA ! Or The LH GROUP .
 
User avatar
OA940
Posts: 1915
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:18 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:52 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
They already have 100 neos on order, so the only reason I can see for them going for the MAX is if they need those 100 planes faster than Airbus can offer them.


Depends on the missions LH wants them to do. After all AA split its narrow body order. They got the A321 and Max 8.


But the A320neo and 737 MAX 8 have basically the same range. And AA is 3 times the size of LH. It just seems unlikely that they'll go for the MAX.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
marcelh
Posts: 678
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:53 pm

dennys wrote:
Well , I might have missed one step , but I wish 737-700 Max shall be launched by LUFTHANSA ! Or The LH GROUP .

Why? They already have the A220-300 (Swiss).
 
columba
Posts: 5231
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:07 pm

In an updated article on the German website Aero.de it is said that a LH spokesman said to them that also the Embraer E2 and the A220 are being considered:

"Neben der 737 MAX und der A320neo kommen auch die Embraer E2 und der Airbus A220 für den nächsten Auftrag in Frage, sagte der Sprecher."
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:17 pm

dennys wrote:
Well , I might have missed one step , but I wish 737-700 Max shall be launched by LUFTHANSA ! Or The LH GROUP .

No such thing as the 737-700 Max; it's the 737-700 or 737 MAX 7.
 
User avatar
GEUltraFan9XGTF
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:31 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:22 pm

columba wrote:
In an updated article on the German website Aero.de it is said that a LH spokesman said to them that also the Embraer E2 and the A220 are being considered:

"Neben der 737 MAX und der A320neo kommen auch die Embraer E2 und der Airbus A220 für den nächsten Auftrag in Frage, sagte der Sprecher."


Then I think it is 99% obvious here that a combo A22X and A32Xneo order would be ideal for the LH Group.

Boeing gets a PR vote of confidence now. I also think there is a really good chance that LH will top-up their 779 and 78X orders for LH and the Group on the WB side.
© 2019. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1379
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:55 pm

If LH orders the MAX, then Airbus must have royally screwed up. I just don't see that happening.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3045
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:03 pm

Any competent airline would be foolish not to consider all options for future orders. Doesn't mean it will ever happen.

Notable similar examples of this include the Air New Zealand and US Airways narrowbody RFPs some years ago, where the 737-900ER was in the running.

IMHO, this is a signal to Airbus not to make the same mistakes Boeing made with British Airways, United Airlines, EasyJet and JetBlue.
 
trijetsonly
Posts: 689
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:38 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:28 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
dennys wrote:
Well , I might have missed one step , but I wish 737-700 Max shall be launched by LUFTHANSA ! Or The LH GROUP .

No such thing as the 737-700 Max; it's the 737-700 or 737 MAX 7.


To continue the nitpicking:
There is no such thing as the 737 MAX 7.
It's only the 737-800 and the 737-8. That'll probably make the 7MAX to be the 737-7 one day.
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/EASA%20TCDS%20IM%20A%20120%20-%20rev%2017.pdf
Happy Landings
 
Ronaldo747
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:55 pm

According to German media, this particular order is a replacement order for A319s and CRJs, A220s and Embraer-Jets are also being considered.

in german only http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/untern ... 59882.html

IMHO, In this case this is an order for A220s to lose.
 
User avatar
InnsbruckFlyer
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:35 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:30 pm

trijetsonly wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
dennys wrote:
Well , I might have missed one step , but I wish 737-700 Max shall be launched by LUFTHANSA ! Or The LH GROUP .

No such thing as the 737-700 Max; it's the 737-700 or 737 MAX 7.


To continue the nitpicking:
There is no such thing as the 737 MAX 7.
It's only the 737-800 and the 737-8. That'll probably make the 7MAX to be the 737-7 one day.
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/EASA%20TCDS%20IM%20A%20120%20-%20rev%2017.pdf


WayexTDI is correct, there is in fact a 737 MAX 7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#737_MAX_7

Last flown aircraft: DH8D OE-LGO < A320 HA-LWC < A320 HA-LWV < A320 SX-DVT < A320 SX-DVK < B733 LZ-BVU < E190 LZ-SOF < A320 D-AIUQ < DH8D OE-LGJ < A321 D-AIRN < A319 LZ-FBB < DH8D OE-LGO < B772 OE-LPC < A346 D-AIHX
 
IWMBH
Posts: 344
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:39 pm

dennys wrote:
Well , I might have missed one step , but I wish 737-700 Max shall be launched by LUFTHANSA ! Or The LH GROUP .


Why would Lufthansa choose the 737-MAX7? If they consider to buy a type they don't operate yet, with all the cost that are involved in this, why the 737-7 and not the A220-300? The A220 is more economical.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 pm

trijetsonly wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
dennys wrote:
Well , I might have missed one step , but I wish 737-700 Max shall be launched by LUFTHANSA ! Or The LH GROUP .

No such thing as the 737-700 Max; it's the 737-700 or 737 MAX 7.


To continue the nitpicking:
There is no such thing as the 737 MAX 7.
It's only the 737-800 and the 737-8. That'll probably make the 7MAX to be the 737-7 one day.
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/EASA%20TCDS%20IM%20A%20120%20-%20rev%2017.pdf

You might want to go tell that to Boeing (source).
Boeing calls it the 737 MAX 7; that's its commercial name.

Once certified, it will most likely be known to the authorities as the 737-7 (similarly to the 737-8 & 737-9).
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 8729
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:13 pm

Bringing back the Bobbies would be awesome but surprising.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9698
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:20 pm

Lufthansa retired its last 737 just 2.5 years ago. They've operated 737's and A320's side by side for decades. The fact that they have a large A32x fleet is not an issue at all. I think Boeing has a better chance here than most people are predicting. I give it 60-40 in favor of the MAX.
 
User avatar
lugie
Posts: 721
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:11 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:39 pm

I was a bit surprised at first but the more I think about it, I can absolutely see a MAX order making sense for LH - they are a a longstanding Boeing customer so they know that they can trust the company in fixing these issues rather soon (even if soon means within the next year, that wouldn't be an issue for LH).

In fact, committing to the the MAX right now could likely land them a sweet deal and maybe even some soon-ish delivery slots. Considerable parts of their A319 fleet (LH mainline and EW), which these MAXes are apparently supposed to replace, are over 20 years old already so sooner deliveries would likely be better. I could imagine the wait for the first deliveries in a 100-frame NEO order to be quite long, possibly longer than for the MAX.
Moreover, it would allow them to expand that subfleet in the longer term, for example by adding the 737-10, obviously not as an A319 replacement, but as a way to upgauge flights on shorthaul routes into slot-restricted major European hubs.

Since the post in reply #114 also mentioned replacement for the CRJs, I could see LH ending up splitting the order, maybe 70-30, between the MAX and the A220 series.
DH4 E75 E90 CR9 CRK M88 319 320 321 332 333 359 733 73G 738 739 748 764 772 77W 788
X3 LH 4U TP US SN EI FR IB LX LA CM UA DL AA AS WN AC
FRA STR HAM TXL MUC ZRH ACE BRU BLL DUB MAN ARN MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT EWR ORD ATL SFO MDW YYZ SJO PTY
 
787X30
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:16 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:51 pm

lugie wrote:
... splitting the order, maybe 70-30, between the MAX and the A220 series.

Let's keep in mind that the group keeps 30 options of the latter.
 
User avatar
NeBaNi
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:45 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:24 pm

Excited about this prospect just to see some retrojet 737 MAXes that will hopefully wear the same schemes as the original 737s that LH took delivery of! :biggrin:
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:26 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
737 MAX 7.


which will be a MAX8minus. :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6511
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:34 pm

I wonder if the praise for Boeing might be in response to an initial rough proposal that seemed a bit too much like Airbus was taking LH for granted...

When you are operating 500 aircraft and ordering 100 at a time, commonality is not as big an issue. This is a replacement of smaller aircraft, so the competition is presumably between MAX 8 and A320neo. That's the part of the lineup where the MAX is strongest and this could well be a legitimate contest.
 
RalXWB
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:10 pm

It is stated in the article that this order presumably is for replacement of A319 and CRJ. Without illegal price dumping the 220/320 combo is hard to beat considering that the Group has over 400 of them.
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:19 am

RalXWB wrote:
It is stated in the article that this order presumably is for replacement of A319 and CRJ. Without illegal price dumping the 220/320 combo is hard to beat considering that the Group has over 400 of them.


The world hasn't (fully) succumbed to US legal views yet.
I am not sure the EU would ( in scope of what EU sees as dumping, not the US ) go active.
Boeing would have to test that :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
crimsonchin
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:59 am

The only way they settle for the inferior airplane in this scenario is if Boeing offers a discount that makes it worth it and/or LH needs the planes faster than Airbus can deliver them. This might also be possible if the NMA is launched by then (doubtful)

It's even more in Airbus' favour if the A220 is involved, seeing as Boeing has nothing to match that combo. Basically the MAX isn't winning this on merit.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 8729
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:03 am

seabosdca wrote:
I wonder if the praise for Boeing might be in response to an initial rough proposal that seemed a bit too much like Airbus was taking LH for granted....


No the main point of the praise is the fact that LH just bought Boeings, the rest is professional courtesy. Considering the long partnership and MRO connections LH has nothing to gain by slamming Boeing.
 
Lewton
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:46 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:19 am

I really like flying the A320 more than the 737 and it is the better plane, but it makes total sense for DLH to consider both.
It would make no sense for them to get 20 737s or so, but anything above 50 737s is an absolutely valid option.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3045
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:00 am

NeBaNi wrote:
Excited about this prospect just to see some retrojet 737 MAXes that will hopefully wear the same schemes as the original 737s that LH took delivery of! :biggrin:


All 737s are retrojets, regardless of the paint scheme :duck:
 
User avatar
terrificturk
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:00 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:19 am

WayexTDI wrote:
MrBrightSide wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:

That was my thought for a moment as well. But why would LH of all companies do that?


You do understand the history of Boeing and Lufthansa? It dates from the beginning of both companies, before WW1 and WW2...

Extremely interesting seeing that The Boeing Company was founded on July 15, 1916 and Lufhansa and Deutsche Luft Hansa (predecessor of the current Deutsche Lufthansa) was founded on January 6, 1926. Hard for the 2 companies to have history before WW1 (which started July 28, 1914)...
Furthermore, it is commonly accepted that the oldest airline still operating is KLM, founded October 7, 1919, after WW1 ended (November 11, 1918).

Back to Boeing and Lufthansa (or Luft Hansa), it seems their relationship started in 1935 with the Boeing 247.


very true... the only real connection is the fact that Herr Wilhelm Böing was german and emigrated - like a lot of smart people did during the Wilhelm II era 'prussian-ised' Germany. There were quite a few famous others... Herr Heinz, Herr Strauss... etc.
 
CRJ900
Posts: 2354
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:43 am

Their CRJ900 has 90 seats and their A319 have 138 seats, both with flexible C/Y according to demand. MAX 8 and A320 will have 180 seats - so are they looking into cutting the number of flights while keeping the same number of seats or massively expand their capacity offering?

Are the CR9 and A319 packed to the brim always?

If they want smaller-capacity aircraft for short hops, they should support BBD and order the CRJ1000 with 110 seats (slimline seats at 30 inch pitch, same as the CR9). If they block 10 seats for "Ihre Freiraum" C-class concept they can have 100 pax with two FAs. Yes, the CRJ1000 is older technology but still very economical as it is a light airframe. E2 and A220 are heavy aircraft with too much range for 40-50-minute flights.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 8729
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:55 am

The trip cost difference of an A320 compared to an A319 is so small that you can fly an more empty A320 without much problems, but the plane can create more revenue when the seats are full.

Replacing a fleet does never mean that you replace with future needs in mind. A319 and CRJ were solid choices when ordered, but that does not mean that the next planes will be of similar size. It is basic math.

Say you have a route that is good for an average of 70 pax in 2000 and you order a plane for delivery in 2005 and want to fly it for 20 years and you have an expected traffic growth of 1,5% per year.

So when you get the new plane in 2005 you already need 74 seats, when you retire the plane in 2025 you could fill 102 seats. For a replacement to be used for the next 20 years you would already need 138 seats by 2045. So ordering something with 120 seats is prudent.
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:55 am

terrificturk wrote:
very true... the only real connection is the fact that Herr Wilhelm Böing was german and emigrated - like a lot of smart people did during the Wilhelm II era 'prussian-ised' Germany. There were quite a few famous others... Herr Heinz, Herr Strauss... etc.


And some stayed and laid the foundation for modern air transport like one Hugo Junkers.
Going for robust full metal (transport) airplanes in a time when everybody else was tacking canvas to their flimsy constructions.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Faro
Posts: 1933
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:08 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:00 pm

Bricktop wrote:
If LH orders the MAX, then Airbus must have royally screwed up. I just don't see that happening.



Boeing has a dire, pressing incentive to sell the MAX to LH that Airbus doesn't have with the A32X, ie to salvage the public image of the MAX. That incentive can be translated into a hard cash discount. Airbus know this and will also offer a robust discount. Doesn't mean they will have royally screwed up if they don't win. Just means that Boeing's incentive was stronger, which under the circumstances is quite understable.

It is delusional to think that the MAX is dead or in any way moribund. It's a basically good plane that just needs a very urgent and very critical post-certification patch-up. And Boeing will end up paying quite heavily for the very urgent and very critical nature of that patch-up. But in no way does that mean the MAX is dead.


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:03 pm

bond787 wrote:
Standard negotiating tactic to get a better price from Airbus.

Or trying to push Boeing to commit to a NMA launch.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1773
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:44 pm

Faro wrote:
Boeing has a dire, pressing incentive to sell the MAX to LH that Airbus doesn't have with the A32X, ie to salvage the public image of the MAX. That incentive can be translated into a hard cash discount. Airbus know this and will also offer a robust discount. Doesn't mean they will have royally screwed up if they don't win. Just means that Boeing's incentive was stronger, which under the circumstances is quite understable.

It is delusional to think that the MAX is dead or in any way moribund. It's a basically good plane that just needs a very urgent and very critical post-certification patch-up. And Boeing will end up paying quite heavily for the very urgent and very critical nature of that patch-up. But in no way does that mean the MAX is dead.


Faro

I cannot express it any better than that. so..... :checkmark: +1
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
texl1649
Posts: 1065
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:25 pm

The Max has a 4 year backlog folks. Less than 0.1 percent of travelers globally would have any idea if LH orders it or not, so I am not sure this is anything but a typical evaluation by a customer of a couple vendors products. The safety record is and will be just fine/in line with the long term 737 statistically over time.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3144
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:23 pm

I think both Boeing and Airbus have aces up their sleeve when it comes to the backlog. Slots are in reserve for certain orders, i.e. favored customers, enticing new customers etc.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1379
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:13 pm

Faro wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
If LH orders the MAX, then Airbus must have royally screwed up. I just don't see that happening.



Boeing has a dire, pressing incentive to sell the MAX to LH that Airbus doesn't have with the A32X, ie to salvage the public image of the MAX. That incentive can be translated into a hard cash discount. Airbus know this and will also offer a robust discount. Doesn't mean they will have royally screwed up if they don't win. Just means that Boeing's incentive was stronger, which under the circumstances is quite understable.

It is delusional to think that the MAX is dead or in any way moribund. It's a basically good plane that just needs a very urgent and very critical post-certification patch-up. And Boeing will end up paying quite heavily for the very urgent and very critical nature of that patch-up. But in no way does that mean the MAX is dead.


Faro

Oh I 100% agree the MAX is not dead despite the ardent wishes of many here. I just don’t see the case for LH to buy it when they are well embedded with Airbus in narrowbodies. But yes of course, if Boeing “makes them an offer they can’t refuse” I suppose it is possible. The PR boost may be worth it to BCA.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13178
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:58 pm

An additional advantage of the 737MAX would be that Lufthansa can switch back to bulk loading, create a lot of jobs and reroute items more than ~40kg. They can probably sell off thousands of containers, lifts and other automated cargo systems & make some quick money there.

Image

If Swiss, SAS, SN make the same MAX switch back to bulk loading commonality is restored too. Which should be great for the future. Containers are just so overrated.

Image
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
Momo1435
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:59 pm

keesje wrote:
An additional advantage of the 737MAX would be that Lufthansa can switch back to bulk loading, create a lot of jobs and reroute items more than ~40kg. They can probably sell off thousands of containers, lifts and other automated cargo systems & make some quick money there.

Image

If Swiss, SAS, SN make the same MAX switch back to bulk loading commonality is restored too. Which should be great for the future. Containers are just so overrated.

Image

You could have used a Eurowings A320 for your bulk loading example picture.

I expect that if they order the 737 it will be mainly for Germanwings and Eurowings and not Lufthansa.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9481
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:04 pm

keesje wrote:
An additional advantage of the 737MAX would be that Lufthansa can switch back to bulk loading, create a lot of jobs and reroute items more than ~40kg. They can probably sell off thousands of containers, lifts and other automated cargo systems & make some quick money there.

Image

If Swiss, SAS, SN make the same MAX switch back to bulk loading commonality is restored too. Which should be great for the future. Containers are just so overrated.

Image

Now now Keesje, no need to be so down on your favorite Airbus. LH group can still do all that if they select the A220. Or is everyone, when talking about how airlines X/Y/Z should order it, just ignoring the fact that the A220 is bulk load only too?

Maybe LH will also launch the A220-500! Wait...uh-oh... when everyone here talks about the A225 have they not considered the containers that A320s allow?
 
LSZH34
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:33 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:19 pm

keesje wrote:
Containers are just so overrated.


Less equipment needed for bulk loading is like the only advantage compared to containers. Bulk loading is a primeval.
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:25 am

LSZH34 wrote:
keesje wrote:
Containers are just so overrated.


Less equipment needed for bulk loading is like the only advantage compared to containers. Bulk loading is a primeval.


Do you really need less equiment? "different" OK?
Murphy is an optimist
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8523
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:57 am

The bad thing with this thread is, that people can keep dreaming for a year about LH buying the MAX, with endless posts how nice that would be. IMO all this posters will have to swallow that LH will buy more A320neo family frames in about a year.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:02 am

mjoelnir wrote:
The bad thing with this thread is, that people can keep dreaming for a year about LH buying the MAX, with endless posts how nice that would be. IMO all this posters will have to swallow that LH will buy more A320neo family frames in about a year.


I'll admit to not being up to speed on EU airlines. Is LH a publicly held company? If so I'd be irritated if I were a shareholder and I found out Boeing offered LH the 737 at a 75% discount and they went with a more expensive A320.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13178
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:07 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
The bad thing with this thread is, that people can keep dreaming for a year about LH buying the MAX, with endless posts how nice that would be. IMO all this posters will have to swallow that LH will buy more A320neo family frames in about a year.


I'll admit to not being up to speed on EU airlines. Is LH a publicly held company? If so I'd be irritated if I were a shareholder and I found out Boeing offered LH the 737 at a 75% discount and they went with a more expensive A320.


I think there are significant difference between the NEO and MAX for LH, that probably would force Boeing to do steep discounts on the MAX. They seem to be in the areas of capacity, range, stability, commonality, cargo capability, cabin space, engine choice and efficiency.

Boeing could maybe buy back LH Airbus NB's. and replace them with MAX's. It worked at Start Alliance Partners Air Canada and United.

Image
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/8761

Still very unlikely though. The disadvantages are so huge.

mjoelnir wrote:
The bad thing with this thread is, that people can keep dreaming for a year about LH buying the MAX, with endless posts how nice that would be. IMO all this posters will have to swallow that LH will buy more A320neo family frames in about a year.


You are probably right. There could be a significant number of A220's for regional services though. They'll lease a few this summer.

https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-a220-lease/

Image
https://www.pintaram.com/u/aviation.concepts/1816946426039762367_3139827014
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9481
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:00 am

keesje wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
The bad thing with this thread is, that people can keep dreaming for a year about LH buying the MAX, with endless posts how nice that would be. IMO all this posters will have to swallow that LH will buy more A320neo family frames in about a year.


I'll admit to not being up to speed on EU airlines. Is LH a publicly held company? If so I'd be irritated if I were a shareholder and I found out Boeing offered LH the 737 at a 75% discount and they went with a more expensive A320.


I think there are significant difference between the NEO and MAX for LH, that probably would force Boeing to do steep discounts on the MAX. They seem to be in the areas of capacity, range, stability, commonality, cargo capability, cabin space, engine choice and efficiency.

There is no significant difference between the NEO and MAX on capacity, range, cabin space, cargo capability engine choice (LH has LEAP As on order) or efficiency.

Boeing could maybe buy back LH Airbus NB's. and replace them with MAX's. It worked at Start Alliance Partners Air Canada and United.

Do share with the class, what Airbuses has Boeing bought back from AC and UA?

You are probably right. There could be a significant number of A220's for regional services though. They'll lease a few this summer.

But what about the cargo containers?!?!?!?!?
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1154
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:22 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
The bad thing with this thread is, that people can keep dreaming for a year about LH buying the MAX, with endless posts how nice that would be. IMO all this posters will have to swallow that LH will buy more A320neo family frames in about a year.


I'll admit to not being up to speed on EU airlines. Is LH a publicly held company? If so I'd be irritated if I were a shareholder and I found out Boeing offered LH the 737 at a 75% discount and they went with a more expensive A320.

I'd be irritated if I were a Boeing shareholder and found out Boeing sold 100 aircraft for a quarter of their list price, of a model that is sold out for many years. The 737 line is definitely not desperate for orders.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8523
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: LH to order 100 B737MAX or A320NEO next year

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:37 am

keesje wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
The bad thing with this thread is, that people can keep dreaming for a year about LH buying the MAX, with endless posts how nice that would be. IMO all this posters will have to swallow that LH will buy more A320neo family frames in about a year.


You are probably right. There could be a significant number of A220's for regional services though. They'll lease a few this summer.



The only thing the 737, A320 and A220 have in common, is that all of them are titled narrow bodies. The A320 competes against the 737, the A220 against the E-jets, E2-jets, CRJ and ERJ.
Two completely different set of requirements.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos