Don’t get me wrong, I love Southwest ❤️ and I love LAS , but is it just me or is the terminal in desperate need of renovation? Compared to the AA terminal there it just looks absolutely worse down . Is there any plans to renovate the facilities ?

ryanrap1 wrote:

Don’t get me wrong, I love Southwest ❤️ and I love LAS , but is it just me or is the terminal in desperate need of renovation? Compared to the AA terminal there it just looks absolutely worse down . Is there any plans to renovate the facilities ?

It was actually renovated not too long ago. It used to be way worse.

WN was in talks a few yrs ago about tearing down first the A gates and old international terminal then the B and C gates to build a new 72 gate terminal. WN was looking at the time to increase it's gate to around 32. But the airport instead wanted WN to relocate to the D gates. WN didn't want to move Talks fell apart because of the recession instead a new TSA check point next to the WN T/C was built and new food renovations were added. Now Allegiant and Spirit both don't mind the old A&B gates. So it's probably not going to change in the next 20 yrs.

Flyguy

wnflyguy wrote:

WN was in talks a few yrs ago about tearing down first the A gates and old international terminal then the B and C gates to build a new 72 gate terminal. WN was looking at the time to increase it's gate to around 32. But the airport instead wanted WN to relocate to the D gates. WN didn't want to move Talks fell apart because of the recession instead a new TSA check point next to the WN T/C was built and new food renovations were added. Now Allegiant and Spirit both don't mind the old A&B gates. So it's probably not going to change in the next 20 yrs.

Flyguy

Will they do anything in the area that the old international terminal is? Right now it just seems to be a place Allegiant dumps inactive aircraft.

Always seemed very overcrowded to me with lines for bathrooms and not enough seating.

ryanrap1 wrote:

Don’t get me wrong, I love Southwest ❤️ and I love LAS , but is it just me or is the terminal in desperate need of renovation? Compared to the AA terminal there it just looks absolutely worse down . Is there any plans to renovate the facilities ?

LAS did a complete renovation of the terminal several years ago. Of course it’s “worse” than D — much of D has gradually opened within the past decade, whereas C was built in 1985. There really isn’t anything else LAS could do to improve C — it’s an older facility, with lower ceilings, narrower cooridors and minimal windows.

That said, it isn’t practical to tear down and rebuild a Concourse just because it’s not as aesthetically pleasing. For staters, WN would oppose such project since it’d have to absorb much of the cost. Secondly, LAS is $4B in debt and has more pressing needs.

Veigar wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

WN was in talks a few yrs ago about tearing down first the A gates and old international terminal then the B and C gates to build a new 72 gate terminal. WN was looking at the time to increase it's gate to around 32. But the airport instead wanted WN to relocate to the D gates. WN didn't want to move Talks fell apart because of the recession instead a new TSA check point next to the WN T/C was built and new food renovations were added. Now Allegiant and Spirit both don't mind the old A&B gates. So it's probably not going to change in the next 20 yrs.

Flyguy

Will they do anything in the area that the old international terminal is? Right now it just seems to be a place Allegiant dumps inactive aircraft.

There is a lot of poorly used real estate between the terminal and 1R/19L. What I'd love to see is to move 1R/19L east 2900 feet to allow parallel approaches on the 1's, and replace A,B, and C with a new mega terminal between 1L + 1R.

compensateme wrote:

ryanrap1 wrote:

Don’t get me wrong, I love Southwest ❤️ and I love LAS , but is it just me or is the terminal in desperate need of renovation? Compared to the AA terminal there it just looks absolutely worse down . Is there any plans to renovate the facilities ?

LAS did a complete renovation of the terminal several years ago. Of course it’s “worse” than D — much of D has gradually opened within the past decade, whereas C was built in 1985. There really isn’t anything else LAS could do to improve C — it’s an older facility, with lower ceilings, narrower cooridors and minimal windows.

That said, it isn’t practical to tear down and rebuild a Concourse just because it’s not as aesthetically pleasing. For staters, WN would oppose such project since it’d have to absorb much of the cost. Secondly, LAS is $4B in debt and has more pressing needs.

Genuinely asking: How does an airport end up $4B in the red?

Surely their newer terminals couldn’t have cost $4B? But if they did, those were completed several years ago. Does LAS not charge user fees to airlines? Or perhaps a case where the local government takes money LAS generates and uses it for other things so when there is a need for infrastructure improvements money needs to borrowed ?

I feel like I’ve read numerous times that many airports in the country are mostly self sustaining with some even making money.

77H

77H wrote:

compensateme wrote:

ryanrap1 wrote:

Don’t get me wrong, I love Southwest ❤️ and I love LAS , but is it just me or is the terminal in desperate need of renovation? Compared to the AA terminal there it just looks absolutely worse down . Is there any plans to renovate the facilities ?

LAS did a complete renovation of the terminal several years ago. Of course it’s “worse” than D — much of D has gradually opened within the past decade, whereas C was built in 1985. There really isn’t anything else LAS could do to improve C — it’s an older facility, with lower ceilings, narrower cooridors and minimal windows.

That said, it isn’t practical to tear down and rebuild a Concourse just because it’s not as aesthetically pleasing. For staters, WN would oppose such project since it’d have to absorb much of the cost. Secondly, LAS is $4B in debt and has more pressing needs.

Genuinely asking: How does an airport end up $4B in the red?

Surely their newer terminals couldn’t have cost $4B? But if they did, those were completed several years ago. Does LAS not charge user fees to airlines? Or perhaps a case where the local government takes money LAS generates and uses it for other things so when there is a need for infrastructure improvements money needs to borrowed ?

I feel like I’ve read numerous times that many airports in the country are mostly self sustaining with some even making money.

77H

A really great, cool resource for finding out more about individual airports and their individual financial situation is the FAA's Airport Financial Reporting System:
https://cats.airports.faa.gov/Reports/reports.cfm

$4B in debt actually isn't a bad thing per se - it's all a matter of how the airport wants to run its show. If you pull the 2017 report for Vegas, you'll see their total long term indebtedness is right around $3.95B - and if you pull the 2017 report for DEN (a perfectly well run airport), you'll see they have virtually the same exact amount. Each airport decides how much debt/risk it's willing to take on, and how to balance its finances. Where debt comes back to bite is when the economy hits the fan, but this is the classic case of leverage: debt is great at amplifying success when everything is running smoothly, and horrible when it's not.

LAS charges plenty of fees - you can see from the same report they charged in excess of $250mil in passenger airline fees in 2017. And on the last question - per regulation, any money generated by the airport must stay on airport. The city of Las Vegas can't just borrow money from McCarran and give it back later. That's part of the reason airports are indeed usually self-sustaining operations as you said.

Terminal 1 & 3 are night and day comparisons at LAS. For the last couple years I have only flown Delta and Frontier into LAS until i booked a ticket with Allegiant. Gate side it felt like a completely different airport. Old, low ceilings, and a bit dirty.

D gates are the real winners at McCarran while A, B, and C needs a nice wash up.

LAS will be at capacity in just a matter of a few years, I don't see why a renovation should be done if there will be a new airport soon in the Las Vegas Valley?

YYZORD wrote:

LAS will be at capacity in just a matter of a few years, I don't see why a renovation should be done if there will be a new airport soon in the Las Vegas Valley?

Why would Las Vegas shut down the airport that is minutes away from the casinos, the one thing that draws most people to that city, in favor of building a new airport much further away? You could most likely add capacity by rebuilding T1. I'd also think it would be cheaper for the city to buy up property south of the airport for a new runway than it would be to build an entirely new airport.

peak86 wrote:

77H wrote:

compensateme wrote:

LAS did a complete renovation of the terminal several years ago. Of course it’s “worse” than D — much of D has gradually opened within the past decade, whereas C was built in 1985. There really isn’t anything else LAS could do to improve C — it’s an older facility, with lower ceilings, narrower cooridors and minimal windows.

That said, it isn’t practical to tear down and rebuild a Concourse just because it’s not as aesthetically pleasing. For staters, WN would oppose such project since it’d have to absorb much of the cost. Secondly, LAS is $4B in debt and has more pressing needs.

Genuinely asking: How does an airport end up $4B in the red?

Surely their newer terminals couldn’t have cost $4B? But if they did, those were completed several years ago. Does LAS not charge user fees to airlines? Or perhaps a case where the local government takes money LAS generates and uses it for other things so when there is a need for infrastructure improvements money needs to borrowed ?

I feel like I’ve read numerous times that many airports in the country are mostly self sustaining with some even making money.

77H

A really great, cool resource for finding out more about individual airports and their individual financial situation is the FAA's Airport Financial Reporting System:
https://cats.airports.faa.gov/Reports/reports.cfm

$4B in debt actually isn't a bad thing per se - it's all a matter of how the airport wants to run its show. If you pull the 2017 report for Vegas, you'll see their total long term indebtedness is right around $3.95B - and if you pull the 2017 report for DEN (a perfectly well run airport), you'll see they have virtually the same exact amount. Each airport decides how much debt/risk it's willing to take on, and how to balance its finances. Where debt comes back to bite is when the economy hits the fan, but this is the classic case of leverage: debt is great at amplifying success when everything is running smoothly, and horrible when it's not.

LAS charges plenty of fees - you can see from the same report they charged in excess of $250mil in passenger airline fees in 2017. And on the last question - per regulation, any money generated by the airport must stay on airport. The city of Las Vegas can't just borrow money from McCarran and give it back later. That's part of the reason airports are indeed usually self-sustaining operations as you said.

Really appreciate the detailed explanation !
I’ll take a look at the link you provided.

77H

Come to think of it, I've only ever been in the SWA terminal. But I've always felt like the chaos and mayhem of that terminal is the perfect way to welcome someone into Vegas.

77H wrote:

Genuinely asking: How does an airport end up $4B in the red?

Surely their newer terminals couldn’t have cost $4B? But if they did, those were completed several years ago. Does LAS not charge user fees to airlines? Or perhaps a case where the local government takes money LAS generates and uses it for other things so when there is a need for infrastructure improvements money needs to borrowed ?

I feel like I’ve read numerous times that many airports in the country are mostly self sustaining with some even making money.

77H

They cost slightly more than $4B; as mentioned, $3.95M is the remaining amount due. The reason the amount is so high is because there's crap tons of interest due and much like a home mortgage payment, the airport is paying off mostly interest in its early years of the loan.

Does anyone know how much LAS airport makes off of gaming?