c933103
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China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:31 am

News report: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 37-max-jet
In other words, no new 737 Max 8 will be delivered to China until CAAC the China's civil aviation authority finished validating Boeing's modification to the aircraft is valid and confirm that the aircraft is airworthy after modification
Which most likely mean that Boeing cannot expect their aircraft operation and delivery around the world be automatically and fully resumed immediately after their release and FAA's approval of their software patch.
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A320FlyGuy
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:37 am

I’m not surprised. Transport Canada has said much the same thing.
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asuflyer
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:43 am

The FAA has lost credibility to have their certifications of aircraft, globally accepted by regulators in other countries. EASA, Transport Canada and CAAC will do their own certifications it appears from now on. I believe other countries with extensive aviation safety oversight will follow them as well.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:37 am

Or this could be read that China will follow in step with the EU and Canada. As Reagan said, Trust but Verify. LOL
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osiris30
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:39 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Or this could be read that China will follow in step with the EU and Canada. As Reagan said, Trust but Verify. LOL


Again, from any other agency I wouldn't bat an eyelash or question motive. But China has an absolutely horrible safety record, I cannot see why they would be the vocal safety leader on this issue except for political purposes.
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strfyr51
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:18 am

asuflyer wrote:
The FAA has lost credibility to have their certifications of aircraft, globally accepted by regulators in other countries. EASA, Transport Canada and CAAC will do their own certifications it appears from now on. I believe other countries with extensive aviation safety oversight will follow them as well.

I'd doubt it. Not many countries can accomplish certification outside of a few. And China? Isn't one of them. What have they already ce11rtified that they designed and built themselves?? Look at the trouble Japan is having with their indigenous designs,, If it was that EASY? Then everybody would be doing it
 
c933103
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:29 am

strfyr51 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
The FAA has lost credibility to have their certifications of aircraft, globally accepted by regulators in other countries. EASA, Transport Canada and CAAC will do their own certifications it appears from now on. I believe other countries with extensive aviation safety oversight will follow them as well.

I'd doubt it. Not many countries can accomplish certification outside of a few. And China? Isn't one of them. What have they already ce11rtified that they designed and built themselves?? Look at the trouble Japan is having with their indigenous designs,, If it was that EASY? Then everybody would be doing it

There are other choices for smaller countries even if they don't have the capability to examine the aircraft themselves. For example wait for other authorities in other countries around the world to examine the aircraft and announce the result.
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MillwallSean
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:31 am

I am struggling to follow the discussion here. The FAA first allows Boeing to self certify the 787 which results in 2 incidents and a grounding initiated by the Japanese. They then follow it up by allowing Boeing to self certify a new component of the 737 and its is the main suspect in two deadly crashes within the last 6 months that have claimed 300+ lives.
Then its the fault of the Chinese?

Hmm they have bought have many of these planes. To me the CAAC are the ones that have come out of this latest mess looking the best. The fact that they and probably EASA and others have lost partial faith within the FAA isn't exactly difficult to understand. Its a pity because the system that aviation had was much better, one of international cooperation and standards. Compare it with the vehicle industry, where China, Europe/Middle East/Africa, South America and North America all have different standards and requirements that are required to be met before the cars are certified for that particular region.

Me id say that the people to blame and those that have absolutely destroyed the FAA budget. Nothing wrong with the engineers at Boeing, nothing wrong with the professionals at FAA however a lot of things wrong with the budget and assumptions management makes in regards to self certification of new airplanes.

In short I believe that the Chinese are absolutely right to suggest that they will need to certify the plane before it is allowed within their airspace. They have more than reasonable ground to demand this and I believe that it may even help Boeing take this more serious than they seem to do when it is the FAA who delegates self certification to them.
Last edited by MillwallSean on Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DL717
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:36 am

MillwallSean wrote:
I am struggling to follow the discussion here. The FAA first allows Boeing to self certify the 787 which results in 2 incidents and a grounding initiated by the Japanese. They then follow it up by allowing Boeing to self certify a new component of the 737 and its is the main suspect in two deadly crashes within the last 6 months that have claimed 300+ lives.
Then its the fault of the Chinese?

Hmm they have bought have many of these planes. To me their equivalent of the FAA are the ones that have come out of this latest mess looking the best. The fact that they and probably EASA and others have lost partial faith within the FAA isnt exactly difficult to understand. Its a pity because the system that aviation had was much better, one of international cooperation and standards. Compare it with the vehicle industry, where China, Europe/Middle East/Africa, South America and North America all have different standards and requirements that are required to be met before the cars are certified for that particular region.

Me id say that the people to blame and those that have absolutely destroyed the FAA budget. Nothing wrong with the engineers at Boeing, nothing wrong with the professionals at FAA however a lot of things wrong with the budget and assumptions management makes in regards to self certification of new airplanes.

In short I believe that the Chinese are absolutely right to suggest that they will need to certify the plane before it is allowed within their airspace. They have more than reasonable ground to demand this and I believe that it may even help Boeing take this more serious than they seem to do when it is the FAA who delegates self certification to them.


I don’t think you understand the highly regulated certification process in any way, shape or manner. Or how the FAA is funded for that matter.

https://www.faa.gov/about/budget/aatf/m ... _Sheet.pdf
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strfyr51
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:43 am

c933103 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
The FAA has lost credibility to have their certifications of aircraft, globally accepted by regulators in other countries. EASA, Transport Canada and CAAC will do their own certifications it appears from now on. I believe other countries with extensive aviation safety oversight will follow them as well.

I'd doubt it. Not many countries can accomplish certification outside of a few. And China? Isn't one of them. What have they already ce11rtified that they designed and built themselves?? Look at the trouble Japan is having with their indigenous designs,, If it was that EASY? Then everybody would be doing it

There are other choices for smaller countries even if they don't have the capability to examine the aircraft themselves. For example wait for other authorities in other countries around the world to examine the aircraft and announce the result.[/quot
In that sense you're right. EASA could do it for them but they'd need a team at Boeing to do it along with the FAA. I would seriously doubt that Boeing would let every "Tom, Dick and Harry" through the Door. And? Especially NOT China!!
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:46 am

Much ado about nothing.

CAAC has never rubberstamped certification on planes both Airbus & Boeing before, so this is just another day. The only difference is that news reports are trying to make this into something it's not.
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EBT
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:02 am

I love the generalisations about China being thrown around here. I can't speak for other industries, but their air safety has been consistently strong, and has been improving. The Max mess could actually see CAAC leapfrog the FAA when it comes to certification oversight. While there wasn't "evidence" that the Max needed grounding, they rightly looked at their risk assessment, and would have determined that the risk was not quantifiable because there wasn't enough information to properly assess that. Then the rest of the world followed, while the FAA was out on its own until Trump pulled the plug on the Max. Now it is emerging that the FAA has, at best, been compromised in its certification of the Max. Expect the CAAC to go over the new software with a fine-tooth comb (as will every other regulator), and perhaps it may be the start of a shift away from just relying on validating the FAA certification.

Yes, orders are politically linked, both for Airbus and Boeing. Yes, the trade war hurt Boeing last year and pushed back most Chinese carrier's "Boeing decision" (BOC Aviation chief's words, not mine), but to claim that the CAAC will hurt the Max in China just for politics is an overreach.
 
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BlueSky1976
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:43 am

Good move.
Now, EASA and FAA should follow. Certificates should be revoked and the aircraft should redo the flight test program and become recertified after MCAS is proven as safe and redundant by proper regulators - not by Boeing.
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Waterbomber2
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:34 am

When all the dust settles, the questions that will be asked is what else did Boeing hide.

I can see why Boeing slipped the MCAS under the mat. The issue is not pilot training or type ratings. A differences training would be sufficient as applicable to Airbus and is not a huge burden. It's one thing to have a system that helps mimic the flight characteristics of an aircraft it replaces, it's another when said system is actually a flight envelope protection. The issue is certification.
Certifying a flight envelope protection system on an aircraft that is not really fly by wire is very very problematic and for good reasons.
You need a lot of sensors and a computer that is programmed to process complex data. Boeing is trying to achieve this with the software fix but this is not simple.
 
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keesje
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:59 am

osiris30 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Or this could be read that China will follow in step with the EU and Canada. As Reagan said, Trust but Verify. LOL


Again, from any other agency I wouldn't bat an eyelash or question motive. But China has an absolutely horrible safety record, I cannot see why they would be the vocal safety leader on this issue except for political purposes.


I think China is the fastest growing aviation market, the CAAC keeps tight to their regulations and there has been no hull loss since 2012. People have to say good bye to their old believes & anecdotal evidence.
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zoom321
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:00 am

Without China, USA and B would still be forcing Max down the throat of the rest of the world. If faa rubber stamp the 'fix', caac should wait for at least 3 years of incident free operation in USA or anyone else who wants to follow them before considering to certify max in China again
 
c933103
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:41 am

strfyr51 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I'd doubt it. Not many countries can accomplish certification outside of a few. And China? Isn't one of them. What have they already ce11rtified that they designed and built themselves?? Look at the trouble Japan is having with their indigenous designs,, If it was that EASY? Then everybody would be doing it

There are other choices for smaller countries even if they don't have the capability to examine the aircraft themselves. For example wait for other authorities in other countries around the world to examine the aircraft and announce the result.

In that sense you're right. EASA could do it for them but they'd need a team at Boeing to do it along with the FAA. I would seriously doubt that Boeing would let every "Tom, Dick and Harry" through the Door. And? Especially NOT China!!

Well it is up to Boeing. Just like the MRJ, they make FAA join the certification program not because the Japanese bureau can't do it, but because it is needed for the aircraft to be operate in America where many of their clients located at.
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moyangmm
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:26 am

zoom321 wrote:
Without China, USA and B would still be forcing Max down the throat of the rest of the world. If faa rubber stamp the 'fix', caac should wait for at least 3 years of incident free operation in USA or anyone else who wants to follow them before considering to certify max in China again


You are exaggerating. While China was the first to respond, other authorities would reach the same conclusion as CAAC did--grounding the MAX fleet.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:19 am

The FAA aloud Boeing to design a safety system with one point of failure with catastrophic results. The main aim of the 737MAX certification was preserving the common type certificate, with complete disregard for the safety of that frame. The main aim for preserving that common type certificate, was to minimize cost of pilot difference training between NG and MAX. Cost considerations beating out safety considerations during the design of the MAX.
IMO one wonders what else will raise its ugly head when the whole 737MAX certification process gets checked.

The whole 737MAX certification will be scrutinized by every agency outside the USA. I would not be astonished if one, the 2 sensor solution for MCAS will not be accepted by other regulators, with the 3 sensor solution and physical changes becoming the only acceptable solution and two, other points in the certification bringing more changes.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:06 am

moyangmm wrote:
zoom321 wrote:
Without China, USA and B would still be forcing Max down the throat of the rest of the world. If faa rubber stamp the 'fix', caac should wait for at least 3 years of incident free operation in USA or anyone else who wants to follow them before considering to certify max in China again


You are exaggerating. While China was the first to respond, other authorities would reach the same conclusion as CAAC did--grounding the MAX fleet.


Apart from the FAA, they needed Donald Trump to do it for them.
 
tphuang
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:02 pm

It never fails to amaze me how people are willing to consider every agency or airline not in Western world to be incapable or doing things for political reasons. China's safety record since it started flying Airbus and Boeing for most of the domestic fleet has been very good, but obviously it's going to get attacked for being conservative.

People's stereotypes and I would say racist views here are plain to be seen.
 
hohd
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:18 pm

Face it Boeing's MAX future is not as robust as it was before the 2 incidents.. If CAAC does not accept the plane to fly, many other countries will do the same now as they do not have the level of trust in the FAA. And yes budget cuts did affect FAA which is the main reason that FAA allowed Boeing to self certify.
 
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DL747400
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:23 pm

Anyone who tries to downplay the significance of China making this announcement of no new airworthiness certificates for the Boeing 737 MAX 8 on the same day that China also announces an order for 300 Airbus jetliners is in denial.

The timing was not coincidental. It was intentional. China does nothing accidentally. They are going out of their way to "pile on" in Boeing's time of crisis, further damaging Boeing's reputation and maximizing Boeing's public humiliation. It is the Chinese (government's) way.
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osiris30
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:25 pm

tphuang wrote:
It never fails to amaze me how people are willing to consider every agency or airline not in Western world to be incapable or doing things for political reasons. China's safety record since it started flying Airbus and Boeing for most of the domestic fleet has been very good, but obviously it's going to get attacked for being conservative.

People's stereotypes and I would say racist views here are plain to be seen.


Please be aware this is not racism. Unless you think Airbus is racist. They just called out Asian countries as being a concern with poor safety cultures and habits when launching a new pilot training initiative.

As for China's safety record:. I posted the stats in this thread. It is good-ish. It is still twice the fatality rate of the US. (But large enough for it to be statistically relevant as a comparison).
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trex8
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:38 pm

So I guess that 737 completion factory in Zhousan isn't going to be real busy any time soon.
 
tphuang
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:43 pm

osiris30 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
It never fails to amaze me how people are willing to consider every agency or airline not in Western world to be incapable or doing things for political reasons. China's safety record since it started flying Airbus and Boeing for most of the domestic fleet has been very good, but obviously it's going to get attacked for being conservative.

People's stereotypes and I would say racist views here are plain to be seen.


Please be aware this is not racism. Unless you think Airbus is racist. They just called out Asian countries as being a concern with poor safety cultures and habits when launching a new pilot training initiative.

As for China's safety record:. I posted the stats in this thread. It is good-ish. It is still twice the fatality rate of the US. (But large enough for it to be statistically relevant as a comparison).

The fatality you posted are mostly from 90s and early 2000s when the reforms have not finished and they were still flying older planes. The current Chinese airline industry is very safe. I don't recall the last time there was any kind of airline related accident. And remember, it's a very congested airspace.

It would be like saying Korean Air is still dangerous based on the issues they had in the 90s.

Do I consider Airbus to be racist? That really depends the contest they said certain things. I'd have to check the statement.
 
Sooner787
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:51 pm

When is the Max 10 scheduled to roll out?

I imagine the certification process will take much longer than the -8 & -9's
simply because all these other safety agencies will want to be active observers
in the test flight program
 
osiris30
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:09 pm

tphuang wrote:
osiris30 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
It never fails to amaze me how people are willing to consider every agency or airline not in Western world to be incapable or doing things for political reasons. China's safety record since it started flying Airbus and Boeing for most of the domestic fleet has been very good, but obviously it's going to get attacked for being conservative.

People's stereotypes and I would say racist views here are plain to be seen.


Please be aware this is not racism. Unless you think Airbus is racist. They just called out Asian countries as being a concern with poor safety cultures and habits when launching a new pilot training initiative.

As for China's safety record:. I posted the stats in this thread. It is good-ish. It is still twice the fatality rate of the US. (But large enough for it to be statistically relevant as a comparison).

The fatality you posted are mostly from 90s and early 2000s when the reforms have not finished and they were still flying older planes. The current Chinese airline industry is very safe. I don't recall the last time there was any kind of airline related accident. And remember, it's a very congested airspace.

It would be like saying Korean Air is still dangerous based on the issues they had in the 90s.

Do I consider Airbus to be racist? That really depends the contest they said certain things. I'd have to check the statement.


Well, any time period I looked at since the 90s it is about twice as bad. As for Airbus, here is the thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1418885
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:34 pm

Controlling companies is difficult, regulatory agencies are regularly captured by industry. While China joined the modern economy late it has boomed to the largest or second largest economy depending upon metrics. Their regulatory bureaucracy has lagged behind. The US drug industry kills about 70,000 people a year, and it is only now in civil courts that a substantial response is taking place. China needs to improve. So what? So does the US.

ps - Boeing may have been a beneficiary of Trump's insane trade wars. Given the US/China trade balance China is under a lot of pressure to make some substantial buys from the US. pps China's all over trade balance is not that far from neutral.
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Elementalism
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:42 pm

This seems pretty standard does it not? China has a regulatory agency for a reason. I would had expected them to test the fix before allowing the plane to fly. Is this really big news?
Last edited by Elementalism on Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
musman9853
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:45 pm

boeing isnt even delivering planes rn though? arent they just storing them at paine rn?
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FriscoHeavy
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:32 pm

musman9853 wrote:
boeing isnt even delivering planes rn though? arent they just storing them at paine rn?


'rn'?
Whatever
 
WayexTDI
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:29 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
boeing isnt even delivering planes rn though? arent they just storing them at paine rn?


'rn'?

Must be "right now". He's too lazy to use capital letters, apostrophes, and commas, typing whole words is just too much...
 
LASlaugh
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:35 pm

"China will stop granting..."

This title is highly misleading as it insinuates that China has automatically granted them until now.

China has NEVER granted airworthiness certification to any new Airbus or Boeing aircraft without their own thorough inspection process

c933103 wrote:
News report: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 37-max-jet
In other words, no new 737 Max 8 will be delivered to China until CAAC the China's civil aviation authority finished validating Boeing's modification to the aircraft is valid and confirm that the aircraft is airworthy after modification
Which most likely mean that Boeing cannot expect their aircraft operation and delivery around the world be automatically and fully resumed immediately after their release and FAA's approval of their software patch.


The propaganda on this forum is quite evident to say the least...
 
Etheereal
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
It never fails to amaze me how people are willing to consider every agency or airline not in Western world to be incapable or doing things for political reasons. China's safety record since it started flying Airbus and Boeing for most of the domestic fleet has been very good, but obviously it's going to get attacked for being conservative.

People's stereotypes and I would say racist views here are plain to be seen.

not again..
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grbauc
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:38 pm

DL717 wrote:
MillwallSean wrote:
I am struggling to follow the discussion here. The FAA first allows Boeing to self certify the 787 which results in 2 incidents and a grounding initiated by the Japanese. They then follow it up by allowing Boeing to self certify a new component of the 737 and its is the main suspect in two deadly crashes within the last 6 months that have claimed 300+ lives.
Then its the fault of the Chinese?

Hmm they have bought have many of these planes. To me their equivalent of the FAA are the ones that have come out of this latest mess looking the best. The fact that they and probably EASA and others have lost partial faith within the FAA isnt exactly difficult to understand. Its a pity because the system that aviation had was much better, one of international cooperation and standards. Compare it with the vehicle industry, where China, Europe/Middle East/Africa, South America and North America all have different standards and requirements that are required to be met before the cars are certified for that particular region.

Me id say that the people to blame and those that have absolutely destroyed the FAA budget. Nothing wrong with the engineers at Boeing, nothing wrong with the professionals at FAA however a lot of things wrong with the budget and assumptions management makes in regards to self certification of new airplanes.

In short I believe that the Chinese are absolutely right to suggest that they will need to certify the plane before it is allowed within their airspace. They have more than reasonable ground to demand this and I believe that it may even help Boeing take this more serious than they seem to do when it is the FAA who delegates self certification to them.


I don’t think you understand the highly regulated certification process in any way, shape or manner. Or how the FAA is funded for that matter.

https://www.faa.gov/about/budget/aatf/m ... _Sheet.pdf


Agree Doing some home work in-place of instantly believing what you read on forum posts or even in news articles is a must especially in the world we live in now..
 
texl1649
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:10 pm

And now the cost of entry for any new non-Chinese aircraft into the global market place just rose further, and became more political. No shocker.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:41 am

Here is why I think China has a better safety record:
- Window shades are required to be open during take off and landing
- No bags under seats in exit rows
- Pro-active grounding of the 737-MAX
- No mobile phone use even in airplane mode until recently
- Very serious about lithium batteries in checked baggage
 
WayexTDI
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:57 am

Ziyulu wrote:
Here is why I think China has a better safety record:
- Window shades are required to be open during take off and landing
- No bags under seats in exit rows
- Pro-active grounding of the 737-MAX
- No mobile phone use even in airplane mode until recently
- Very serious about lithium batteries in checked baggage

Here we go again; someone put another quarter in the machine...

Do you never get tired of that old rambling that even the FAA told you was a non-issue???
 
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scbriml
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Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:01 am

WayexTDI wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
boeing isnt even delivering planes rn though? arent they just storing them at paine rn?


'rn'?

Must be "right now". He's too lazy to use capital letters, apostrophes, and commas, typing whole words is just too much...


k. thx m8 :sarcastic:
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Ziyulu
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:13 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
Here is why I think China has a better safety record:
- Window shades are required to be open during take off and landing
- No bags under seats in exit rows
- Pro-active grounding of the 737-MAX
- No mobile phone use even in airplane mode until recently
- Very serious about lithium batteries in checked baggage

Here we go again; someone put another quarter in the machine...

Do you never get tired of that old rambling that even the FAA told you was a non-issue???


FAA said it was safer to have them open during take off and landing, but that there was no requirement to do so. That again shows lack of safety.
 
DDR
Posts: 1557
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:32 am

scbriml wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:

'rn'?

Must be "right now". He's too lazy to use capital letters, apostrophes, and commas, typing whole words is just too much...


k. thx m8 :sarcastic:


You can’t help yourself can you?
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5272
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:36 am

You do know that Airbus does the same thing as Boeing? They have a self certify group that works the same as FAA ODA's.
 
travaz
Posts: 833
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:38 am

Just maybe this is a shot in the trade war negotiations?
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5272
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:40 am

Ziyulu wrote:
Here is why I think China has a better safety record:
- Window shades are required to be open during take off and landing
- No bags under seats in exit rows
- Pro-active grounding of the 737-MAX
- No mobile phone use even in airplane mode until recently
- Very serious about lithium batteries in checked baggage


While I like the window shade rule, it hasn't caused problems so far in the past

Bags under seats in exit rows to me isn't a problem, its been proven people get out time and time again.

No mobile phones was proven not to be an issue. They even did studies to prove it, it just shows China is years behind.

What makes the batteries different than the US?
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5272
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:42 am

burnsie28 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
Here is why I think China has a better safety record:
- Window shades are required to be open during take off and landing
- No bags under seats in exit rows
- Pro-active grounding of the 737-MAX
- No mobile phone use even in airplane mode until recently
- Very serious about lithium batteries in checked baggage


While I like the window shade rule, it hasn't caused problems so far in the past

Bags under seats in exit rows to me isn't a problem, its been proven people get out time and time again.

No mobile phones was proven not to be an issue. They even did studies to prove it, it just shows China is years behind.

What makes the batteries different than the US?


Never mind the fact that when some of the Chinese pilots come over to the US for flight training they already know the type of plane they will fly once they go back home, yet they have up to this point never flown a plane before they started flying. Their pilots have hardly any time in a real plane before they start flying pax.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 13695
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:28 am

burnsie28 wrote:
Never mind the fact that when some of the Chinese pilots come over to the US for flight training they already know the type of plane they will fly once they go back home, yet they have up to this point never flown a plane before they started flying. Their pilots have hardly any time in a real plane before they start flying pax.


It is very common outside of the US to have pilots go straight from flight school to flying passengers on airliners.

Lufthansa has a large school in the US doing the same https://lufthansa-aviation-training-usa.com/#gref

It is not the number of hours a pilot does that matters in the early days, it all comes down to the quality and consistency of training.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1010
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:49 am

Ziyulu wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
Here is why I think China has a better safety record:
- Window shades are required to be open during take off and landing
- No bags under seats in exit rows
- Pro-active grounding of the 737-MAX
- No mobile phone use even in airplane mode until recently
- Very serious about lithium batteries in checked baggage

Here we go again; someone put another quarter in the machine...

Do you never get tired of that old rambling that even the FAA told you was a non-issue???


FAA said it was safer to have them open during take off and landing, but that there was no requirement to do so. That again shows lack of safety.

If they didn't make it a requirement, it's because the "safer" aspect is marginal at best; if it was proven to be really safer, they would make it a requirement, similar to the announcements pre-departure (such as mentioning the life vest and various flotation devices when your flight won't go over anything bigger than a river 10 or 20 feet wide...).

Give it a rest buddy, you sound like a broken crazy record...
 
WIederling
Posts: 8357
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:14 am

Etheereal wrote:
not again..

Talk with Mr. We Too Low and his sidekick Mr. Ho Lee Fuk :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
Posts: 8357
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: China will stop granting new 737 Max 8 airworthiness certificate

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:49 am

texl1649 wrote:
And now the cost of entry for any new non-Chinese aircraft into the global market place just rose further, and became more political. No shocker.

With the MAGA dog barking at the door anyway nothing has changed.
Murphy is an optimist

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