wernerga3
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TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:38 pm

Hi All,

I came across these pretty rare original seat charts for the TWA Ambassador service wide-bodys of the early 70s. The L1011 and 747. I have seen many TWA floor plans, but very few that showed the original floor plans with the double first class lounge on the 747, and the central coach lounge on the L1011. All the floor plans I had seen (which were at least mid-70s) did not have any main-deck lounges. So pretty cool!

Now having said all this, I am curious- If you look at the back of the L1011, it says K Class. What is K Class? It was way too early for the biz class (ambassador) experiment, but I am curious to say the least.

747
Image


L1011
Image
 
Qantas59
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:29 pm

Congratulations on such a rare find. Thank you for sharing that.
Not sure what exactly K class was. Is it possible that it was an area that was reserved for families traveling with small children (kids)?
This was TWA in its heyday.
Cheers.
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
bradmovie
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:45 pm

deleted due to double post
Last edited by bradmovie on Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bradmovie
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:45 pm

Great find! Once, during the 90s, I had a chance to fly in First class on the TWA 747 from JFK to SFO. The seating chart was different, and I was able to choose row 1. In that configuration row 1 only had one seat! It was right up against the nose below the cockpit, and I could see out of angled windows both left and right of my seat, almost as if I had a cockpit view.

Fabulous flight, TWA had class compared to today's AA!

I believe K class was the original code for early business class.
 
wernerga3
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:50 pm

Thanks for the responses guys- I was thinking K was an early biz code, but its strange because ambassador class didn't debut for almost another decade at that point.

Another interesting thing is that the L1011 didn't have movies compared to the 747 which had multiple movies playing. So interesting that you could pick mature or not mature movies in coach depending on section!


Here is a later seat map which did not have the lower deck first class lounge
Image

And here is that actual first class (without lounge in B-Zone)
Image
Image
Last edited by wernerga3 on Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:56 pm

bradmovie wrote:
Great find! Once, during the 90s, I had a chance to fly in First class on the TWA 747 from JFK to SFO. The seating chart was different, and I was able to choose row 1. In that configuration row 1 only had one seat! It was right up against the nose below the cockpit, and I could see out of angled windows both left and right of my seat, almost as if I had a cockpit view.

Fabulous flight, TWA had class compared to today's AA!

I believe K class was the original code for early business class.


Here is that seat map. Once ambassador adorned the upper deck, and nearly every carrier added the single seats in the front row
Image

Here is the view from the front of first class
Image
 
Qantas59
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:01 pm

Is it possible that the second 747 seat map pre-dated the map with the main deck lounge? I thought that when the main deck coach lounge was removed that it was replaced with coach seats.
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Adipocere
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:08 pm

Is “mature movie” really what I think it is!?? Would love to read a trip report from someone on these flights.
 
wernerga3
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:12 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
Is it possible that the second 747 seat map pre-dated the map with the main deck lounge? I thought that when the main deck coach lounge was removed that it was replaced with coach seats.


That main deck lounge on the 747 is a first class lounge. Only the L1011 had the main deck coach lounge per those seat docs.

I would imagine that the second map I posted with the first class seating where the lounge was, came later, as they wanted more passenger revenue/seating. But it is entirely possible that they changed their minds at the last second and added the main deck lounge upon completion.

I have been researching Pan Am 747 cabins, and my research showed that similarly, within a year of operating the 747, Pan Am redesigned their B-Zone with a dining room test (before the upper deck dining room came to be). AA also had a dining room in the B-Zone with swivel chairs, so maybe TWA was just following suit?

EDIT: this is the map you must be thinking of which has B-Zone coach, and it is from the mid 70s when coach switched to 10 abreast:
Image
Last edited by wernerga3 on Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
wernerga3
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:14 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Is “mature movie” really what I think it is!?? Would love to read a trip report from someone on these flights.


haha it crossed my mind as well! But I am sure it has to do with language/violence which wasn't for kids..

Here is a timetable which shows off the two movie choices:
Image
Last edited by wernerga3 on Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
RJNUT
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:14 pm

I believe back then K class was something they called "Thrift Class" , deeply discounted and not offered in all markets. It might even have been without a meal. a sort of "proto' un-bundled fare!
 
lonhahn
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:16 pm

Not sure about TWA, but on United in the 1970's there were 3 main classes of service. F was first, Y was coach, and K was economy. We flew flight UA 181 SFO-HNL a few times out of the Hawaiian themed gate 15 at SFO pier B.

The only difference between Y and K according to my dad was a 10% lower fare and you got a snack instead of a meal, which he said usually was better than the meal anyway.
 
wernerga3
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:20 pm

Okay, to recap, here are the seating maps (in evolution). We came to find that the lounge on the main deck was added a year later, just like Pan Am and AA!

Image
Image
Image
Image


And apparently K class was similar to today's basic economy. Very cool!
 
wernerga3
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:47 pm

So, that seat chart says the main deck lounge is first class, but Jon Proctor (a DCS for TWA) says it was a coach lounge. This of course makes more sense as the upper deck was technically the first class lounge.. Here is a pic of the coach lounge:

Image
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:51 pm

Wow, 2-4-3 Y seating in the early TWA 747s.
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wernerga3
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:04 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
Wow, 2-4-3 Y seating in the early TWA 747s.



Yeah, all early 747s were 3-4-2. Many switched to 3-4-3 by the late 70s.

Here is a diagram that shows the big 3 plus TWA. Notice the coach lounge in the rear of the AA 747 (which would get the electric Wurlitzer within a year of launch). Also, Delta had the "penthouse in the sky" which was half of the upper deck turned into a private state room. United had the "red carpet room" with only swivel chairs, and that was short lived as they were early adopters of the 747-200 which had a whole new upper deck design for them.

Image
Last edited by wernerga3 on Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:05 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
And apparently K class was similar to today's basic economy. Very cool!

That would be my guess.

Glancing through an OAG of the 1970s, most domestic US flights were F/Y. An exception was Hawaii where most flights were F/Y/K. TWA offered F/Y on most of its flights and F/Y/K where competion warranted it.

Looking at LAX-HNL, round trip fares (high season) were $402 for F/First , $278 for Y/Coach and $262 for K/Economy. Airlines flying the route were NW, PA, CO, UA, WA and TW.

Another exception during the era was CO, who offered F/Y/K on all flights. Other airlines when competing, also offered a K cabin and fares on those routes paralleling CO. Looking at the seat chart of the L1011, and having sat in the aft cabin ... I can understand why that would be the lowest fare when offered. ;)
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:15 pm

I remember reading years ago that TWA wasn't allowed to have a coach lounge on int'l flights (probably due to unfair competition). So when the 747s were on overseas flights, first class passengers actually had two lounges at their disposal.
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:25 pm

bradmovie wrote:
Fabulous flight, TWA had class compared to today's AA!

During that era, every American carrier had class compared to today's AA (or today's DL, UA, etc.) ... even AA!

It may come as a surprise to some of our younger members of this website, that during the 1960s and 1970s, American carriers had among the finest cabin service on the earth! They had to, as fares were regulated, carriers had to compete with service. It was a wonderful (albeit expensive) time to be a passenger.

When the Airline Deregulation Act was passed in October, 1978 and fully unrestricted by the beginning of 1983, aviation in the US became an economics exercise. Now the world watched as airlines morphed, adjusted and some failed. The ones that failed were the ones that did not give the passenger what he wanted. And what he wanted is what we have today ... A cheap seat. (With the option of something better for a fee).
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:36 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
I remember reading years ago that TWA wasn't allowed to have a coach lounge on int'l flights (probably due to unfair competition). So when the 747s were on overseas flights, first class passengers actually had two lounges at their disposal.

That is a very interesting point. TWA would have been the only American carrier that operated a 747 both domestically and internationally and those coach lounges would definitely not have been allowed by ICAO!

Heck I remember when Scandinavian Airlines came under scrutiny due to their "second" snack meal on a trans-atlantic flight. To a North American a "sandwich" is a "sandwich", but to a Scandinavian, a "sandwich" is an "event". The elaborate sandwich service offered on SAS DC-8s in Economy between CPH and JFK as a "snack" caused other airlines to complain. I can just imagine what a TWA Coach Lounge would cause.
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:45 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
Is “mature movie” really what I think it is!?? Would love to read a trip report from someone on these flights.


haha it crossed my mind as well! But I am sure it has to do with language/violence which wasn't for kids..

Here is a timetable which shows off the two movie choices:
Image


Interesting. In the timetable they definitely wrote "Adult Movies", not "Mature Movies" like in the seating map.

So had "Adult Movies" another meaning then? :shock:
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:50 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
Not sure what exactly K class was. Is it possible that it was an area that was reserved for families traveling with small children (kids)?


I think not. K-Class was for smokers. So not really a speacial place for families with small children.
 
wernerga3
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:04 pm

Heinkel wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
Is “mature movie” really what I think it is!?? Would love to read a trip report from someone on these flights.


haha it crossed my mind as well! But I am sure it has to do with language/violence which wasn't for kids..

Here is a timetable which shows off the two movie choices:
Image


Interesting. In the timetable they definitely wrote "Adult Movies", not "Mature Movies" like in the seating map.

So had "Adult Movies" another meaning then? :shock:


It says on the bottom of the time table "Mature audience film" in small writing. I still think it is referring to language/violence/romance blah blah. Like today's rated R.
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:05 pm

Heinkel wrote:
Qantas59 wrote:
Not sure what exactly K class was. Is it possible that it was an area that was reserved for families traveling with small children (kids)?


I think not. K-Class was for smokers. So not really a speacial place for families with small children.


yeah good point on that one- I still think K was the discounted coach test. Although when I searched for it, I found nothing..
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:10 pm

Heinkel wrote:
So had "Adult Movies" another meaning then? :shock:


Absolutely. Back in the early 1970s an "adult movie" would have been something that today gets a PG rating in the U.S. What one thinks of today as an "adult movie" was just illegal in most jurisdictions.
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:17 pm

I did a lot of flying up front in the early 70's and one of the best memories was sitting in the front of the L-1011 nonstop LHR-LAX. I enjoyed 747, but I really liked the 1011. What I didn't like in all of the aircraft was that they put the nonsmoking in front of the smoking areas, and you had to walk through the smoke to get to the lavatories. Not fun at all.
Thanks for sharing the seating plans, brought back a lot of memories.
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:22 pm

ThanX for sharing.... I am amazed about the single seats in Economy/Coach Class, but also about the numbering of seats. Are there no letters, only numbers? Quite bizarre on the L1011, row 5 seat 5-9, must be confusing...
 
wernerga3
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:09 pm

debonair wrote:
ThanX for sharing.... I am amazed about the single seats in Economy/Coach Class, but also about the numbering of seats. Are there no letters, only numbers? Quite bizarre on the L1011, row 5 seat 5-9, must be confusing...



Very interesting indeed that they didn't use letter! I just noticed that! Must have been confusing with the double numbers.
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:13 pm

The first class lounge table from a TWA L1011 is for sale on ebay. I've seen it on there for a while now, and it is pricey

Image
Image
Image
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:07 am

wernerga3 wrote:
So, that seat chart says the main deck lounge is first class, but Jon Proctor (a DCS for TWA) says it was a coach lounge. This of course makes more sense as the upper deck was technically the first class lounge.. Here is a pic of the coach lounge:

Image


Wow, this is a fun thread!
You need to look on Youtube for "1972 TWA Coach Lounge" commercial and "TWA Airlines Vintage Commercials". They show coach lounges on both the 707 and 747. And my favorite commercial showcasing the L-1011's coach seats that are "extra wide, and with special thick cushioning" and "Now TWA serves you a delicious steak in coach on all 1011 flights to the east".
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:13 am

Wasnt K the 21 day apex fare Y?
 
questions
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:31 am

They look like the party planes!

Any first hand experiences flying these aircraft? Were they really as social as these advertisements? Was the seatbelt sign not used as much?
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:46 am

global2 wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
So, that seat chart says the main deck lounge is first class, but Jon Proctor (a DCS for TWA) says it was a coach lounge. This of course makes more sense as the upper deck was technically the first class lounge.. Here is a pic of the coach lounge:

Image


Wow, this is a fun thread!
You need to look on Youtube for "1972 TWA Coach Lounge" commercial and "TWA Airlines Vintage Commercials". They show coach lounges on both the 707 and 747. And my favorite commercial showcasing the L-1011's coach seats that are "extra wide, and with special thick cushioning" and "Now TWA serves you a delicious steak in coach on all 1011 flights to the east".

Yes, this is such a fun thread! Haven't have one for some time after all those Max issue. Thank you OP for opening this thread! Learning a great deal.

Really feeling nostalgic looking at those old seat maps and interior photo. Too bad in Asia, only Singapore Airlines came close to having lounge on upper deck. The later 747 adopters CA, MH, GA, TG, CI and BR some others did not have them, at least I haven't seen any. Maybe they did, please correct me if I am wrong. Only only big L-1011 operator was CX which I believe did not have lounge as well.
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:59 am

juliuswong wrote:
Really feeling nostalgic looking at those old seat maps and interior photo. Too bad in Asia, only Singapore Airlines came close to having lounge on upper deck. The later 747 adopters CA, MH, GA, TG, CI and BR some others did not have them, at least I haven't seen any. Maybe they did, please correct me if I am wrong. Only only big L-1011 operator was CX which I believe did not have lounge as well.

CI had a lounge on their 747-132s. CX had 10 across in their L1011 definitely no lounges!
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:19 am

questions wrote:
They look like the party planes!

Any first hand experiences flying these aircraft? Were they really as social as these advertisements? Was the seatbelt sign not used as much?


The majority of these sort of images taken from that era were all about glamourising travel especially with the arrival of the B747 and it was great marketing and good public relations and they were more than likely taken when the aircraft was on the ground rather than in the air with actors or airline staff playing the role of the passengers.

Although passengers mingled more back then especially with the available lounges and obviously they would gain a small crowd but in reality they tended to be nothing like what you see in the promotional images as seen above.
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:17 am

trex8 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Really feeling nostalgic looking at those old seat maps and interior photo. Too bad in Asia, only Singapore Airlines came close to having lounge on upper deck. The later 747 adopters CA, MH, GA, TG, CI and BR some others did not have them, at least I haven't seen any. Maybe they did, please correct me if I am wrong. Only only big L-1011 operator was CX which I believe did not have lounge as well.

CI had a lounge on their 747-132s. CX had 10 across in their L1011 definitely no lounges!

Thanks trex8 for the info! Learnt something new today. Was it a carry over from Delta? Wish there is photo floating around.
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:54 pm

juliuswong wrote:
trex8 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Really feeling nostalgic looking at those old seat maps and interior photo. Too bad in Asia, only Singapore Airlines came close to having lounge on upper deck. The later 747 adopters CA, MH, GA, TG, CI and BR some others did not have them, at least I haven't seen any. Maybe they did, please correct me if I am wrong. Only only big L-1011 operator was CX which I believe did not have lounge as well.

CI had a lounge on their 747-132s. CX had 10 across in their L1011 definitely no lounges!

Thanks trex8 for the info! Learnt something new today. Was it a carry over from Delta? Wish there is photo floating around.


Looks like CX started with 9 across on the L1011. A lot of the early L1011s had the dividers in the middle of the center rows.

CX L1011
Image
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:07 pm

[quote="wernerga3"]Hi All,

I came across these pretty rare original seat charts for the TWA Ambassador service wide-bodys of the early 70s. The L1011 and 747. I have seen many TWA floor plans, but very few that showed the original floor plans with the double first class lounge on the 747, and the central coach lounge on the L1011. All the floor plans I had seen (which were at least mid-70s) did not have any main-deck lounges. So pretty cool!

Now having said all this, I am curious- If you look at the back of the L1011, it says K Class. What is K Class? It was way too early for the biz class (ambassador) experiment, but I am curious to say the least.

747
Image


L1011


Image[/
and Economy in
In the days before deregulation, there were First Class (all coded F), Coach/Economy (same class of service but Coach in U.S. Domestic, Economy on internatonal,(all coded Y), and, on a limited number of markets (U.S. Mainland-Hawaii/Puerto Rico, and limited other international), Thrift Class (sometimes called Economy on domestic U.S.), (all coded K). Later, when they added international Business Class, it was coded C, which was in reference to Pan Am's Clipper Class (although, actually, I think Qantas had the first business class section, before Pan Am).

There was no such thing as yield management back then\. so you didn't need the buckets we have today, where one flight may have a dozen or more fare classes. "K" class was definitely NOT a code for Business class.
 
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:45 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
I remember reading years ago that TWA wasn't allowed to have a coach lounge on int'l flights (probably due to unfair competition). So when the 747s were on overseas flights, first class passengers actually had two lounges at their disposal.


This is correct, I used to work for TWA in the early seventies in London. The 747's transatlantic used the main deck lounge for First plus the upper lounge. The 747's were used transcontinentally especially JFKLAX & JFKSFO, the main deck lounge was then used for Y pax. IATA controlled prices and service levels, even amounts of food served and an economy lounge would not have passed their rules.

The K class, as far as I know, was a budget economy fare on certain routes in the US and Hawaii. I think they tried to seat passengers on these fares towards the back. Perhaps someone from TWA based in the US would have a better insight on this. As has been pointed out there wasn't any yield management. I actually did a project/proposal on the for top management in early 1973 about this, I left before it was introduced so I don't know when that was but definitely not in mid 73.
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:17 pm

longhauler wrote:
...TWA would have been the only American carrier that operated a 747 both domestically and internationally


It's very unusual for Longhauler to be wrong, but Northwest Orient also operated the 747 on many U.S. domestic routes in addition to its international routes.
 
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longhauler
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:12 pm

VC10DC10 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
...TWA would have been the only American carrier that operated a 747 both domestically and internationally


It's very unusual for Longhauler to be wrong, but Northwest Orient also operated the 747 on many U.S. domestic routes in addition to its international routes.

Good heavens! You are 100% correct, I completely forgot about Northwest. Good catch.

Ironically, I have actually flown on a NW 747 on a domestic US flight! ANC-ORD in 1975.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Qantas59
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:16 pm

Did NW have coach lounges on its 747s? If not it would not be relevant to the topic being discussed.
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
trex8
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:12 am

juliuswong wrote:
trex8 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Really feeling nostalgic looking at those old seat maps and interior photo. Too bad in Asia, only Singapore Airlines came close to having lounge on upper deck. The later 747 adopters CA, MH, GA, TG, CI and BR some others did not have them, at least I haven't seen any. Maybe they did, please correct me if I am wrong. Only only big L-1011 operator was CX which I believe did not have lounge as well.

CI had a lounge on their 747-132s. CX had 10 across in their L1011 definitely no lounges!

Thanks trex8 for the info! Learnt something new today. Was it a carry over from Delta? Wish there is photo floating around.


The CI 747-132s were initially leased, at least one of the two was for sure, (though I dont know if DL was still the owner at that point) then subsequently purchased. As someone already posted CX did have 9 across L1011s but they were all 10 across pretty quickly. I remember when we were living in the 70s between HK, Taiwan and Philippines praying to get a CV880 or 707 rather than a L1011 on a CX flight! Even for a skinny kid then it was tight in that L1011. I never had to endure 10 across in a trijet again till a Sun Country DC10 2 decades later and maybe 50 lbs +weight heavier.
Remember the TWA 747s well, by then my parents were posted to London and Brussels in the late 70s , 80s and took them a lot to ORD and I think also STL.
 
milemaster
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:39 pm

Image
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:17 pm

RJNUT wrote:
I believe back then K class was something they called "Thrift Class" , deeply discounted and not offered in all markets. It might even have been without a meal. a sort of "proto' un-bundled fare!

Correct. It was like 21AP fares. CAB by the 1970s allowed airlines to experiment with deeply discounted fares to Florida and transcons.
 
TW870
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:12 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
I believe back then K class was something they called "Thrift Class" , deeply discounted and not offered in all markets. It might even have been without a meal. a sort of "proto' un-bundled fare!

Correct. It was like 21AP fares. CAB by the 1970s allowed airlines to experiment with deeply discounted fares to Florida and transcons.


Yep. When I flew for United, my senior FA colleagues always talked about what a nightmare the service was when you had K fares on board. K fares didn't get meals. But of course passengers always move around, so if you weren't careful and started the service following the manifest, you would inevitably deliver a few meals to K fares who had moved to where Ys had been booked to sit, and then be out of meals before you served the last Y. In many cases full fare Ys would end up being denied meals on transcons, and then Ks would eat. According to those flight attendants, the onboard disputes are the reason the no-meal K fare system was dropped.
 
FlyboyOz
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:15 pm

Interesting story about K class

I would love to sit in the K class so that I don't have to worry about hearing children screaming lol.
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b4thefall
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:51 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
trex8 wrote:
CI had a lounge on their 747-132s. CX had 10 across in their L1011 definitely no lounges!

Thanks trex8 for the info! Learnt something new today. Was it a carry over from Delta? Wish there is photo floating around.


Looks like CX started with 9 across on the L1011. A lot of the early L1011s had the dividers in the middle of the center rows.

CX L1011
Image



Very interesting picture! I have only ever seen 8 abreast TriStars with the closets in the middle, never 9 abreast!
 
sspontak
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:00 am

Even at 9 abreast with the little closet in the middle, the CX config looks very roomy.
 
Ryanair01
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Re: TWA Ambassador Service Seat Charts (1971) L1011, 747 Question- K Class?

Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:00 am

longhauler wrote:
VC10DC10 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
...TWA would have been the only American carrier that operated a 747 both domestically and internationally


It's very unusual for Longhauler to be wrong, but Northwest Orient also operated the 747 on many U.S. domestic routes in addition to its international routes.

Good heavens! You are 100% correct, I completely forgot about Northwest. Good catch.

Ironically, I have actually flown on a NW 747 on a domestic US flight! ANC-ORD in 1975.


I'm not sure if National did, certainly their Heathrow route had 747s for a while. Also Delta's 747 were flown as part of the Pan Am interchange routes and also made it to Heathrow via Washington.

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