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kitplane01
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Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:57 am

Basically, a senior FA books an desirable schedule using seniority. Then "trades" with a more junior FA who wants it. For the trade, the junior FA gives both a less desirable schedule, and $$$.

Happening at AA and United. Both the company and the union want it to stop. If both the senior and junior in the trade are made more happy, it is not obviously evil.

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... t-to-stop/
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:02 am

It is evil though. You’re screwing people with the time in who actually want to work the trip.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:37 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
It is evil though. You’re screwing people with the time in who actually want to work the trip.


If they had the "time in" they would have held the trip. They didn't have enough time in so they did not. Don't get me wrong, I don't think "selling trips" is ethical - it's sleazy and takes advantage of the whole seniority system in order to create a side business for Flight Attendants - but the person that thinks they should have held the trip but didn't obviously couldn't hold the trip using their own seniority.
 
Sean-SAN-
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:44 am

This has happened for a long long time, and for some reason the FA unions don't seem to mind... UA and AA especially have a high number of FAs who drop all their trips and just keep the job for travel benefits and health insurance, and have completely different careers. Not sure why the unions sign off on this.
 
Prost
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:46 am

It behooves the people who do this to remember the trips aren’t theirs, they belong to the company. Most companies have a problem with people selling something that belongs to the company. I know people at my carrier have lost their jobs over this.
 
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enilria
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:23 am

This is a form of corruption and it’s fairly common in union shops where the value of seniority is so high. The union could easily stop it, but of course the most senior always control the union, so...

It’s particularly bad for FAs because pay is so poor to begin with that junior FAs buying trips are nearly working for free.
 
smi0006
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:28 am

$200 a trip is a lot, ade they making that much more off these longaul trips to afford them, or is it more a mini holiday?
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:38 am

Don't think that this issue is limited to just the cabin crew, this also happens with within the pilot body at certain airlines too.

My input is that this really depends on the intent of the parties in this situation. If the more senior CC is booking certain high value trips with the intent to sell to a more junior CC, then I'd agree that this is somewhat unethical. If the junior CC approaches the more senior CC to purchase a trip off of them, then I don't necessarily see this as unethical. You might have a friend or family member at a specific layover destination you might want to see. Or perhaps you have personal obligations and the timing of the trip helps you meet your personal obligation.

Don't forget that this system works both ways, you can also pay someone to take your less valuable trip off your hands too.
 
Wayfarer515
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:16 am

What a bunch of gangsters, and yet it is Jimmy Hoffa whom the CIA vanished, these old farts deserve much worse.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:20 am

This happens in every unionized business were schedule is based on seniority.

Btw the seniority concept is asinine.
 
vfw614
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:38 am

Sean-SAN- wrote:
This has happened for a long long time, and for some reason the FA unions don't seem to mind... UA and AA especially have a high number of FAs who drop all their trips and just keep the job for travel benefits and health insurance, and have completely different careers. Not sure why the unions sign off on this.


Pardon my ignorance, but what is the point for an airline to have employees who never work for the employer, but keep benefitting from the employment?
 
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zeke
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:51 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Basically, a senior FA books an desirable schedule using seniority. Then "trades" with a more junior FA who wants it. For the trade, the junior FA gives both a less desirable schedule, and $$$.

Happening at AA and United. Both the company and the union want it to stop. If both the senior and junior in the trade are made more happy, it is not obviously evil.

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... t-to-stop/


I don’t have a problem with this at all.

Swapping and selling trips is very common across the industry. The airline business is 24/7 business, crew rosters are generated that have crew working often through important holidays, birthdays, family sickness etc. Often the easiest way to get the time off to meet an external commitment is to get someone else to fly a trip for you.

The airline is happy as the flight is still crewed without anyone reporting sick which would mean using reserve crew.

I can understand that this seems odd to some people who work office hours, however when you have a job that can have you rostered to work every holiday, weekend, and birthday, having the ability to get someone else to fly a trip for you is highly desirable for crew.
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SEPilot
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:10 am

I do not see a problem with this at all. It is completely voluntary, and both parties are presumably satisfied. Those that object are just looking to control other people. Airlines have to establish a pecking order for trip bidding, and nobody has come up with a better or fairer one than seniority. So if a less senior employee wants to purchase the right for a certain trip, and the more senior one is willing to sell it and fly the less desirable one, who is hurt by it? I see it as a win-win.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
SteelChair
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:39 am

Regarding the comments about union shops driving seniority, I would point out that many non union shops also use seniority for similar purposes (shift bidding, vacation bidding, etc.)
 
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Revelation
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:39 am

enilria wrote:
This is a form of corruption and it’s fairly common in union shops where the value of seniority is so high. The union could easily stop it, but of course the most senior always control the union, so...

It’s particularly bad for FAs because pay is so poor to begin with that junior FAs buying trips are nearly working for free.

Yet it is the junior FA who is agreeing to pay, so there must be value in it for them, right? If it was just about the money they would just work the given trip.

It seems seniority isn't the issue here, it is that the crews value some trips over others and they are allowed to swap. It would still be true if trips were assigned totally randomly, all that would change is who is paying who. Of course the seniors can get the most desirable trips so they have the better inventory to sell, but again, changing this would not change the fact that some trips are more desirable than others and crews are allowed to swap.

smi0006 wrote:
$200 a trip is a lot, ade they making that much more off these longaul trips to afford them, or is it more a mini holiday?

As above, it isn't necessarily about going to a nice place, it is some times about avoiding working a popular weekend, or one that collides with a birthday, anniversary, etc.
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jfklganyc
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:56 am

Offering $$ to get rid of a garbage trip...fine

Demanding $$ for a coveted trip...not fine
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:59 am

tell me where I wrong but the junior FAs don't have to buy the trips.
they are willing so how can this be evil. I think it's somewhat devious but it takes two to tango.
I certainly remember a scams like that some of the pilots did. I almost got caught in one. Pilot calls and says he's got a one leg domestic trip like mine but his folks live in the city I'm going to and he would like to trade with me to visit them. I say sure and then confirm this IS a PDO (per diem only) swap right? Uhhh, no, if they reroute one us it wouldn't be fair so we trade pay too. I'm getting suspicious and then I realize my trip paid about 25 min more than his. Nope sorry that won't work. scam
 
jfk777
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:17 am

Sean-SAN- wrote:
This has happened for a long long time, and for some reason the FA unions don't seem to mind... UA and AA especially have a high number of FAs who drop all their trips and just keep the job for travel benefits and health insurance, and have completely different careers. Not sure why the unions sign off on this.


How can someone never work at AA and get "free" health insurance benefits ? Considering what insurance costs, thousands per person, its surprising airlines don't have a " minimum hours per week" requirement for health benefits. How much $$ does this cost airlines ? Millions of dollars.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:31 am

All the usual excuses for corruption and corruption is what this is, the usual excuse that both take part. Swapping flights is OK, doing it for money is corruption, that is how corruption is defined. The problem is not the union, but the seniority system. Why has there to be a pecking order for trip bidding?
 
ordbosewr
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:49 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Basically, a senior FA books an desirable schedule using seniority. Then "trades" with a more junior FA who wants it. For the trade, the junior FA gives both a less desirable schedule, and $$$.

Happening at AA and United. Both the company and the union want it to stop. If both the senior and junior in the trade are made more happy, it is not obviously evil.

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... t-to-stop/


In the US, the IRS does care...... it is income....
 
Pyrex
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:50 am

This reminds me of the way people still to do this day get jobs down on the docks, as longshoremen - if you want to work, you have to grease a few union palms.
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Galwayman
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:52 am

The seniority system is toxic .
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:56 am

mjoelnir wrote:
All the usual excuses for corruption and corruption is what this is, the usual excuse that both take part. Swapping flights is OK, doing it for money is corruption, that is how corruption is defined. The problem is not the union, but the seniority system. Why has there to be a pecking order for trip bidding?

This is not corruption. Corruption would be paying supervisors to get good trips, and this is one reason for seniority to rule-it pretty much eliminates that kind of corruption. Trading trips with payment between the parties involved is not corruption-it is free enterprise. I reiterate my previous question; who is harmed? All trips are covered, both parties are happy, and nobody is worse off. Paying a supervisor off is much different; the one who should have gotten the trip gets shafted, and the supervisor profits by taking someone else’s right. In this case the one with the right gives it up voluntarily and profits from it. What on earth is wrong with that?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:14 pm

It’s always amusing to see reactions to things that happen within the industry from people on the outside.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
slider
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:16 pm

This has been going on for ages, it's like a subculture--websites and Facebook groups for trip trading and such.

And the senior FAs will "park" trips for others to pick up, which is also a violation at pretty much every airline, but not enforced like it should be. Lot of chicanery going on and I'm glad AA and UA are working to rein that in.

It's not free enterprise--it's against company policy because it violates the very essence of seniority based bidding.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:24 pm

It’s one thing to offer up money for someone to pick up a trip. This is completely different. This has flight attendants picking up trips they have no intention on flying and then selling them to junior flight attendants subverting seniority and profiting off of it. No, this is not ok.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:31 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
It’s one thing to offer up money for someone to pick up a trip. This is completely different. This has flight attendants picking up trips they have no intention on flying and then selling them to junior flight attendants subverting seniority and profiting off of it. No, this is not ok.


To Quote and paraphrase a famous Illinois Governor who is in jail (but I repeat myself), "I've got this (trip) and it's [expletive] golden, and, uh, uh, I'm just not giving it up for [expletive] nothing. I'm not gonna do it. And, and I can always use it."

Considering it's United and they're headquartered in Chicago, I figured it's appropriate.

The first rule of trading things is don't put it in writing or say it over a wiretap.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:35 pm

SEPilot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
All the usual excuses for corruption and corruption is what this is, the usual excuse that both take part. Swapping flights is OK, doing it for money is corruption, that is how corruption is defined. The problem is not the union, but the seniority system. Why has there to be a pecking order for trip bidding?

This is not corruption. Corruption would be paying supervisors to get good trips, and this is one reason for seniority to rule-it pretty much eliminates that kind of corruption. Trading trips with payment between the parties involved is not corruption-it is free enterprise. I reiterate my previous question; who is harmed? All trips are covered, both parties are happy, and nobody is worse off. Paying a supervisor off is much different; the one who should have gotten the trip gets shafted, and the supervisor profits by taking someone else’s right. In this case the one with the right gives it up voluntarily and profits from it. What on earth is wrong with that?

It’s not their asset to sell.
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:40 pm

slider wrote:
This has been going on for ages, it's like a subculture--websites and Facebook groups for trip trading and such.

And the senior FAs will "park" trips for others to pick up, which is also a violation at pretty much every airline, but not enforced like it should be. Lot of chicanery going on and I'm glad AA and UA are working to rein that in.

It's not free enterprise--it's against company policy because it violates the very essence of seniority based bidding.

And why is the seniority system so sancrosanct? It is a way to allocate trips without favoritism. As long as all trips get covered why does the airline care about what the crews do in terms of swapping and trading, as long as all flights are staffed by competent and qualified crews? I fail to see where there is any problem as long as there is no coercion.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:41 pm

TRANSLATION: Corruption

Gee, I wonder whether the senior FAs are using the funds earned from selling their desirable trips and schedules to pay someone else to take college admissions tests for their kids?
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leghorn
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:43 pm

SEPilot wrote:
slider wrote:
This has been going on for ages, it's like a subculture--websites and Facebook groups for trip trading and such.

And the senior FAs will "park" trips for others to pick up, which is also a violation at pretty much every airline, but not enforced like it should be. Lot of chicanery going on and I'm glad AA and UA are working to rein that in.

It's not free enterprise--it's against company policy because it violates the very essence of seniority based bidding.

And why is the seniority system so sancrosanct? It is a way to allocate trips without favoritism. As long as all trips get covered why does the airline care about what the crews do in terms of swapping and trading, as long as all flights are staffed by competent and qualified crews? I fail to see where there is any problem as long as there is no coercion.

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Dalmd88
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:45 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
It is evil though. You’re screwing people with the time in who actually want to work the trip.


If they had the "time in" they would have held the trip. They didn't have enough time in so they did not. Don't get me wrong, I don't think "selling trips" is ethical - it's sleazy and takes advantage of the whole seniority system in order to create a side business for Flight Attendants - but the person that thinks they should have held the trip but didn't obviously couldn't hold the trip using their own seniority.

But look at it this way; I am most senior, I bid on a trip I have no intention on flying and put it up for sale. A very junior buys it from me. No harm, unless you are right behind me in seniority and I took the trip ahead of you and you therefore could not bid it. If you want it you must buy it from me. If I did not bid on it you would have and would have gotten it.

If its a one time thing, Ok, but it sounds like some of the senior FA are making it into a side business.
 
zuckie13
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:02 pm

Maybe the airlines need to negotiate a limit on how many times a FA can drop or trade a trip. Like you can do it no more that 2x a year.
 
usa330300
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:04 pm

vfw614 wrote:
Sean-SAN- wrote:
This has happened for a long long time, and for some reason the FA unions don't seem to mind... UA and AA especially have a high number of FAs who drop all their trips and just keep the job for travel benefits and health insurance, and have completely different careers. Not sure why the unions sign off on this.


Pardon my ignorance, but what is the point for an airline to have employees who never work for the employer, but keep benefitting from the employment?

It is not ignorance on your part, but bad information from the poster. There are many senior FAs that bid a full schedule, with the option of flying it, but often parse it down to the lowest number of hours they may fly per their contract whilst still able to receive minimum pay and company benefits.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:06 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
This happens in every unionized business were schedule is based on seniority.

Btw the seniority concept is asinine.

Even non-union Delta has seniority for its flight attendants, ramp, CSA, it’s the only fair system so there aren’t kiss butts like yourself who hates unions and loves Doug Parker.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:08 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Sean-SAN- wrote:
This has happened for a long long time, and for some reason the FA unions don't seem to mind... UA and AA especially have a high number of FAs who drop all their trips and just keep the job for travel benefits and health insurance, and have completely different careers. Not sure why the unions sign off on this.


How can someone never work at AA and get "free" health insurance benefits ? Considering what insurance costs, thousands per person, its surprising airlines don't have a " minimum hours per week" requirement for health benefits. How much $$ does this cost airlines ? Millions of dollars.

AA’s FAs now have a hard 40 in order to keep benefits, including insurance.
 
Bongodog49
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:09 pm

So we have people selling something that isn't really theirs to sell, Imagine how the cabin crew with seniority would shout out if the airlines started asking for a direct payment in exchange for being rostered on a favourable flight ? After all if a flight attendant has decided that the market value of a flight is $200, whats to stop the airlines asking for $200 to be rostered on it ?
 
Elementalism
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:19 pm

SEPilot wrote:
I do not see a problem with this at all. It is completely voluntary, and both parties are presumably satisfied. Those that object are just looking to control other people. Airlines have to establish a pecking order for trip bidding, and nobody has come up with a better or fairer one than seniority. So if a less senior employee wants to purchase the right for a certain trip, and the more senior one is willing to sell it and fly the less desirable one, who is hurt by it? I see it as a win-win.


The issue they are abusing seniority to grab the highly valued routes, then selling them to less senior people. Stop allowing them to bid on a trip and instead let a computer assign them. This issue will pretty much clear itself up.
 
SocalApproach
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:21 pm

This happens all the time. And there are plenty of Flight Attendants like others have said here who basically don’t work at all and have a whole different career going on outside of the airline but still have free flights and benefits. Plenty of them pick up trips themselves for cash and then just call out protected sick leave and don’t even work the trip. Sometimes you have a trip change hands 6-7 times being sold off before a reserve flight attendant is finally assigned to it. I’ve even seen flight attendants trade lower credit trips into higher credit ones and then just call out sick to get the higher pay. The entire flight attendant industry is pure cancer honestly but nobody is doing anything about it and frankly if I didn’t have other obligations and was a little younger id join too!
Last edited by SocalApproach on Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:21 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
It is evil though. You’re screwing people with the time in who actually want to work the trip.


If they had the "time in" they would have held the trip. They didn't have enough time in so they did not. Don't get me wrong, I don't think "selling trips" is ethical - it's sleazy and takes advantage of the whole seniority system in order to create a side business for Flight Attendants - but the person that thinks they should have held the trip but didn't obviously couldn't hold the trip using their own seniority.

But look at it this way; I am most senior, I bid on a trip I have no intention on flying and put it up for sale. A very junior buys it from me. No harm, unless you are right behind me in seniority and I took the trip ahead of you and you therefore could not bid it. If you want it you must buy it from me. If I did not bid on it you would have and would have gotten it.

If its a one time thing, Ok, but it sounds like some of the senior FA are making it into a side business.


I'd be wary of a ban and would suggest that is different from cracking down on the side business aspect. Zeke pointed out above that pilots and flight attendants have very different work schedules from those of us with office jobs. That's true, but one thing that is the same is that people's schedules sometimes change after they schedule their work obligations. I might schedule, for instance, a court appearance a month or two out and then have another personal or professional obligation come up on top of it. My two options are either moving the court appearance or getting somebody else to cover it. Obviously, pilots and f/as can't "move" a trip; if it's going it's going. So, their only option is to get someone else to cover the trip and I really struggle to find anything wrong with encouraging someone to cover, either with money or with some other inducement.
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OSL777FLYER
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:25 pm

I know that there is a bidding system, but I honestly would never have believed that such things as described here existed.

Yes, one can argue that both sides are "happy" yet, to pay a co-worker for for a certain flight is both a crappy way to treat your colleagues and taking advantages of your position within an airline. It is simply corruption.

Written warning should be given for first-time offenders, then if it happens again. Out the door you go.
 
gen2stew
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:30 pm

If a crew member has the seniority to hold a trip its theirs fair and square. It's none of anyone's business what they do with it. Most posters comments aren't of any merit since it's not their career. Go back to your cube and start another Doug Parker bashing thread or another e-shrine to DL
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vjzalb
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:35 pm

Not being a FA or having worked in a union environment, can someone explain the "buying"/"selling" aspect here. I can glean the concept from the post, but is there actual money changing hands? If so is it a recorded transaction for personal tax purposes? Or does it mean some other transaction (i.e., swapping time off, differential in pay for different route, etc.).

Thanks!
 
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wilcharl
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:39 pm

20 years ago I was a ramp agent. My first day on the job I was told that $100 bucks gets you a holiday off. That's $150.00 in todays money. We called them "drug deals" on the ramp Senior people would "sell" their weekends/holidays to junior people
 
slider
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Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:41 pm

vjzalb wrote:
Not being a FA or having worked in a union environment, can someone explain the "buying"/"selling" aspect here. I can glean the concept from the post, but is there actual money changing hands? If so is it a recorded transaction for personal tax purposes? Or does it mean some other transaction (i.e., swapping time off, differential in pay for different route, etc.).

Thanks!


Of course it's not documented...it's usually a cash transaction. Venmo, Paypal, cash or whatever.

So, there's a nuance here to point out--there will be a FA who may have a trip that they need to get rid of for some event they have going on. They'll advertise their trip via the airline's scheduling system (variations on a theme, but generally each airline has a crew scheduling system and app crew can access anywhere, anytime). If it doesn't get picked up, sometimes FAs would put $$ on it to induce someone to take it.

But having a coveted trip, or parking it on your line to SELL is entirely wrong.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4291
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:45 pm

On the ramp we have a few people who are senior enough to hold a good shift and work area FULL time, swap all of their shifts with a junior person who cannot hold full time but can hold a schedule the senior person wants. In effect, the senior person is using his seniority to boost the junior person up.

It honestly doesn’t bother me personally, I feel as if it is your shift you can do as you wish within the rules. I do think it is a question of integrity, technically they are not doing anything wrong but it’s not a good look for the individual.
 
ual763
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:50 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
It is evil though. You’re screwing people with the time in who actually want to work the trip.


If they had the "time in" they would have held the trip. They didn't have enough time in so they did not. Don't get me wrong, I don't think "selling trips" is ethical - it's sleazy and takes advantage of the whole seniority system in order to create a side business for Flight Attendants - but the person that thinks they should have held the trip but didn't obviously couldn't hold the trip using their own seniority.

But look at it this way; I am most senior, I bid on a trip I have no intention on flying and put it up for sale. A very junior buys it from me. No harm, unless you are right behind me in seniority and I took the trip ahead of you and you therefore could not bid it. If you want it you must buy it from me. If I did not bid on it you would have and would have gotten it.

If its a one time thing, Ok, but it sounds like some of the senior FA are making it into a side business.


Couldn’t have said it better myself @Dalmd88! It is a very shady practice, and yes, it is corruption! It is so unfair to everyone else. As others have said, these trips are not the FA’s assets to sell. They should not be profiting by selling something that’s not theirs.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
ual763
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:58 pm

gen2stew wrote:
If a crew member has the seniority to hold a trip its theirs fair and square. It's none of anyone's business what they do with it. Most posters comments aren't of any merit since it's not their career. Go back to your cube and start another Doug Parker bashing thread or another e-shrine to DL


It is not “theirs”. It is still the company’s and the employee doesn’t get to sell it. If the employee has something pop up and needs to trade someone, then just ask for a trade. If the trip is that coveted, there will be more than enough people willing to trade with you.

It boggles my mind, the number of people on here willing to defend corruption in the name of “scheduling necessities” or “factors of life”.

If you’re willing to sell a trip for $200, believe me, they had no intention of ever flying it to begin with. It’s all a money making scheme and it needs to stop.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15202
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:03 pm

Airlines have to still approve of such swaps to make sure the staffing if within FAA work time rules, to make sure have enough crew with certain language skills (like Spanish), properly trained for working particular aircraft and to prevent abuses. Problem is that they may be somewhat lax as don't want flack from the crews who want that flexibility. Still 'selling slots' for cash is wrong, I can't do that in my work for sure.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2856
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Flight Attendants are Selling Their Seniority

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:05 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
If they had the "time in" they would have held the trip. They didn't have enough time in so they did not. Don't get me wrong, I don't think "selling trips" is ethical - it's sleazy and takes advantage of the whole seniority system in order to create a side business for Flight Attendants - but the person that thinks they should have held the trip but didn't obviously couldn't hold the trip using their own seniority.


You are right and wrong at the same time.

You are right because if you had the seniority you would have been able to hold the line.
However you are wrong because of the trip trade system and this is where it starts to gets confusing. UA FA's have a trip trade system (I'm not a FA so I don't 100% understand all the nuisances of it but I will try to explain what I do know). UA FA's can post a trip on the trade board and there are several ways another FA can pick up that trip but their are time limits, every month there is a open trading window which is first come first serve but at some point that window closes it them becomes based on seniority. So lets say you have 1 day more of seniority than I do and you hold ORD-PVG-ORD line and I'm holding ORD-LHR-ORD line, you post your trip on the board but have missed the cut off for open trading at first come first serve now all trades are seniority based, because you have 1 day more of seniority than I do I can't hold the line but I can pick up your trip once we are in the seniority based trading window before anyone else can who has less seniority than me. So I can't permanently hold the line do to lack of seniority but I do have the seniority to pick up your line before a FA who has less seniority than me. The last and final way a trade can be done is between 2 FA's you can send me a request to pick up your trip and I can if my schedule allows,but there can not be the promise or an exchange of money or gifts. Also I still have to either fly my original line or schedule if no other FA picks up my trip assuming I want to give up my trip.

There are two issues here the first is the senior FA's are selling their trips for profit. For a junior FA it could be worth it to pay a senior FA a hundred bucks (or whatever the going rate is) because international flights pay more money. However for FA's who have 10, 15, even 20 years seniority they are being screwed because they don't have the seniority to permanently hold the high value international lines but they could have at the very least had the opportunity to pick up the trip had it been posted to the trade board either during the open trading window or during the seniority based trading window.

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