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New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:35 am

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread April 2019. Please continue to add your comments below.

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torin
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:35 pm

Re the Air Nelson history... I don't think it's really been about ego. Air Nelson, Origin Pacific and the current Origin (is that its name?) - there's just something about Nelson! Maybe individuals there, or its centralised geography and proximity to some pretty great tourism destinations. Has always had the sfrong commuter element on the Wellington route too to underpin broader growth. I think it's pretty neat. A shame Hamilton, with all its industry, can't claim the same - the proximity to Auckland probably preventing that.


Air Nelson, Origin Pacific and Originair were all started by the same person - Robert Inglis, so I would almost imagine its probably more to do with him than anything else...
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:05 pm

Very excited about ICN. Now only major international carriers that can fly to ICN nonstop that's missing is probably QF. Finally, an option for Asiana loyalists to Auckland.
 
aerohottie
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:09 am

thekorean wrote:
Very excited about ICN. Now only major international carriers that can fly to ICN nonstop that's missing is probably QF. Finally, an option for Asiana loyalists to Auckland.

Me too... now all I want is EWR, BKK and WLG-SIN* nonstop and i'm good.

*don't care if this is NZ or SQ, but A350 would be nice
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tealnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:39 am

aerohottie wrote:
Me too... now all I want is EWR, BKK and WLG-SIN* nonstop and i'm good.
*don't care if this is NZ or SQ, but A350 would be nice

No further whispers on whether the A350 can actually do WLG-SIN non-stop with full pax? If it's technically feasible the opportunity to launch it comes this year when SQ replaces the last of its 77Es with A359s...
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:41 am

aerohottie wrote:
thekorean wrote:
Very excited about ICN. Now only major international carriers that can fly to ICN nonstop that's missing is probably QF. Finally, an option for Asiana loyalists to Auckland.

Me too... now all I want is EWR, BKK and WLG-SIN* nonstop and i'm good.

*don't care if this is NZ or SQ, but A350 would be nice


I see from BITRE stats released today that LF on SQ MEL-WLG was 93% in Jan19, following 90% in Dec18 and 87% in Nov18. Pretty strong for a 5th freedom service. So hopefully something is going to happen soon.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:00 am

tealnz wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
Me too... now all I want is EWR, BKK and WLG-SIN* nonstop and i'm good.
*don't care if this is NZ or SQ, but A350 would be nice

No further whispers on whether the A350 can actually do WLG-SIN non-stop with full pax? If it's technically feasible the opportunity to launch it comes this year when SQ replaces the last of its 77Es with A359s...


I haven't seen anything announced since Airbus did their testing. :( But here's hoping. >_<
 
aerohottie
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:01 am

a7ala wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
thekorean wrote:
Very excited about ICN. Now only major international carriers that can fly to ICN nonstop that's missing is probably QF. Finally, an option for Asiana loyalists to Auckland.

Me too... now all I want is EWR, BKK and WLG-SIN* nonstop and i'm good.

*don't care if this is NZ or SQ, but A350 would be nice


I see from BITRE stats released today that LF on SQ MEL-WLG was 93% in Jan19, following 90% in Dec18 and 87% in Nov18. Pretty strong for a 5th freedom service. So hopefully something is going to happen soon.

ok i'll accept two flights then, if I must... B78X WLG-MEL-SIN and A350 WLG-SIN nonstop ;-)
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tealnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:36 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
IMO there has to be a 78-10ER in future, the 77W worldwide replacement will kick off in around 5 years in bulk, Boeing have the 789 on the low end with the 78J for shorter runs up to 10-11hrs as is then a large step up to the niche 778 and the almost 747 size 779 on the upper end. I think a 78-10ER with a strengthened landing gear etc is a given. I agree they will keep the 77W replacement open for now but imo likely a 78-10 for LAX/SFO/LHR.Future fleet and I keep rehashing will ultimately be 789/78J, A321/320, ATR 72-600. Just my opinion of course but as good as the A350 is it’s another type when I believe the 787 could do all of NZ’s routes in one form or another.

The 787 seems to have an extraordinary grip on a.netters' imagination. The reality is that the difference between the 254t MTOW of the 789/78J and the 280t MTOW of the A359 is directly reflected in capability (payload/range). And that that difference is highly relevant for a leisure-oriented cargo-heavy airline like NZ that wants to fly not only to US west coast but to inland and east coast USA. We're talking ranges that are beyond the capabilities of the 78J and even the 789 unless you go for extreme low density cabins or block lots of seats westbound and eliminate cargo.

The 78J will be a great Asian aircraft if they buy it (and switch to a J seat that can fit 1-2-1 in the narrow 787 cabin). But it won't do the 13 hours plus sectors from LAX/SFO. The 789 will continue to struggle on ORD until a 77E replacement joins the fleet. NYC will have to wait until then as well. The 787 is marginal for North America. It's that simple.

You think there will be an ER? I think it's more likely we'll have to wait for an ultrafan neo in the late 2020s at current MTOW more or less. By which time there will also be A350 neos in service.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:58 am

tealnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
IMO there has to be a 78-10ER in future, the 77W worldwide replacement will kick off in around 5 years in bulk, Boeing have the 789 on the low end with the 78J for shorter runs up to 10-11hrs as is then a large step up to the niche 778 and the almost 747 size 779 on the upper end. I think a 78-10ER with a strengthened landing gear etc is a given. I agree they will keep the 77W replacement open for now but imo likely a 78-10 for LAX/SFO/LHR.Future fleet and I keep rehashing will ultimately be 789/78J, A321/320, ATR 72-600. Just my opinion of course but as good as the A350 is it’s another type when I believe the 787 could do all of NZ’s routes in one form or another.

The 787 seems to have an extraordinary grip on a.netters' imagination. The reality is that the difference between the 254t MTOW of the 789/78J and the 280t MTOW of the A359 is directly reflected in capability (payload/range). And that that difference is highly relevant for a leisure-oriented cargo-heavy airline like NZ that wants to fly not only to US west coast but to inland and east coast USA. We're talking ranges that are beyond the capabilities of the 78J and even the 789 unless you go for extreme low density cabins or block lots of seats westbound and eliminate cargo.

The 78J will be a great Asian aircraft if they buy it (and switch to a J seat that can fit 1-2-1 in the narrow 787 cabin). But it won't do the 13 hours plus sectors from LAX/SFO. The 789 will continue to struggle on ORD until a 77E replacement joins the fleet. NYC will have to wait until then as well. The 787 is marginal for North America. It's that simple.

You think there will be an ER? I think it's more likely we'll have to wait for an ultrafan neo in the late 2020s at current MTOW more or less. By which time there will also be A350 neos in service.


We shall see shouldn’t we? So should the buy the 78J as a 772 replacement, what will replace the 77W?

I think some things are changing like ICN got me given KE’s dominance in the market. The Pacific strategy hasn’t changed though. But I do feel with some of these longer routes they will or are willing to forgo a bit of freight and use lower density configurations.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:59 am

thekorean wrote:
Very excited about ICN.

Me too. :bouncy:

Cheers,

C.
Last edited by planemanofnz on Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:00 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
... given KE’s dominance in the market.

Market growth in recent years has come through the one-stop options (e.g. via China), and not through the non-stop KE option.

KE is increasingly less dominant, and facing scandal after scandal. Now, more than ever, NZ is in a solid position to take on KE.

Cheers,

C.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:29 am

planemanofnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
... given KE’s dominance in the market.

Market growth in recent years has come through the one-stop options (e.g. via China), and not through the non-stop KE option.

KE is increasingly less dominant, and facing scandal after scandal. Now, more than ever, NZ is in a solid position to take on KE.

Cheers,

C.



OZ had been mentioned recently about an ICN-AKL flight, which made sense, I’m not sure it does now, maybe a codeshare with NZ, I expected the other way around.

Anyway well done on getting ICN right.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:18 am

I too am excited about ICN but think it will only deliver well if OZ and NZ team up with code-share connections. OZ flies to a host of destinations in China (and ICN is infinitely preferable as a transfer point than PVG IMHO) while OZ also offers non-stops to Europe to LHR, CDG, FRA, FCO etc and from memory Europe via Korea is around 500 nm shorter than via SIN or LAX for travellers between NZ and Europe.
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:36 am

NZ321 wrote:
I too am excited about ICN but think it will only deliver well if OZ and NZ team up with code-share connections. OZ flies to a host of destinations in China (and ICN is infinitely preferable as a transfer point than PVG IMHO) while OZ also offers non-stops to Europe to LHR, CDG, FRA, FCO etc and from memory Europe via Korea is around 500 nm shorter than via SIN or LAX for travellers between NZ and Europe.

I’m sure work is going on behind the scenes to secure that deal with OZ. Would be mutually beneficial to both airlines.

I just don’t see the 787 as a 77E replacement. Doesn’t have the payload capacity. Sure an ER version would be good but unlikely due to the costs involved. Only way you’ll see a 78J IMHO is if it is part of a 77X order - which would delay NZs plans for EWR). I think it’s a bit of foxing to get the best deal out of Airbus.
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NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:22 pm

Interesting that Munda airport in the Solomon Islands is looking to add AKL flights in the long term. Melanesia is certainly an under-represented oceanic region for AKL. The airport itself was built with significant funds from NZ as well. Could be an interesting market to see grow gradually in time.

https://www.newsie.co.nz/news/145417-we ... teway.html

I too am dubious about an all 787 long haul fleet, I think whilst simplistic, putting all ones long haul aircraft eggs in one basket does create vulnerabilities and in the past NZ were stung with the DC-10 grounding and recently whilst the fault doesn't lie with the aircraft itself, rather Rolls Royce, the 787 issues for NZ have certainly created a degree of chaos. Imagine how much worse it could have been were it not for the completely separate 777 fleet.
 
TheLifehouse
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:54 am

ZK-OJN wasn't painted white like the others, It's logos were removed instead. I wonder why.

Image
 
Motorhussy
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:30 am

NPL8800 wrote:
I too am dubious about an all 787 long haul fleet, I think whilst simplistic, putting all ones long haul aircraft eggs in one basket does create vulnerabilities and in the past NZ were stung with the DC-10 grounding and recently whilst the fault doesn't lie with the aircraft itself, rather Rolls Royce, the 787 issues for NZ have certainly created a degree of chaos. Imagine how much worse it could have been were it not for the completely separate 777 fleet.


And now with SQ grounding the 78X fleet, I would think this would raise those very alarm bells with NZ.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:37 am

TheLifehouse wrote:
ZK-OJN wasn't painted white like the others, It's logos were removed instead. I wonder why.

Image

Operational spare like one of the ATRs has become?
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PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:57 pm

777ER wrote:
TheLifehouse wrote:
ZK-OJN wasn't painted white like the others, It's logos were removed instead. I wonder why.

Image

Operational spare like one of the ATRs has become?


ZK-OJN and ZK-OJO will probably get repainted in eastern Europe. They are owned by AerCap who are leasing them to LCC startup Canada Jetlines, a major shareholder of which is SmartLynx of Latvia. The CEO of SmartLynx is on the Canada Jetlines board.

This is from a 27 Dec 2018 Canada Jetlines announcement.
In addition, SmartLynx and the Company have entered into a two year agreement that will provide Jetlines with services meant to support Jetlines during the early stage of their operations.

SmartLynx specialises in full service ACMI (Aircraft-Crew-Maintenance-Insurance) aircraft lease services and is the leading ACMI provider in Europe for Airbus A320 aircraft.


PA515
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:57 pm

Looks like the Trent 1000 TEN isn't immune to the problems either, with SQ grounding two 787-10... https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-t ... gine-issue
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:15 pm

Yes this has to be potentially worrying for Air NZ at the moment. They will have their scrutiny caps on big time.
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NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:18 pm

If the RR engine is this flawed in terms of materials then why would you order more of these birds? This sounds like a serious melt-down for RR (i.,e.not contained to early build engines) and meanwhile airlines need to get on and manage their business. What does this mean if anything for the upcoming 77E replacement?
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NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:24 pm

Or perhaps an A350 order since the engines on this bird seem not to be subject to such problems.
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Gangurru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:16 pm

I’m in Cairns and it’s just gone 3am. I was just woken by NZ87 AKL-HKG landing. It was B772 ZK-OKG.

Sorry, I can’t seem to find how post a screenshot of flight radar. It was at cruising altitude over Mission Beach, which is only 130kms south of the airport. It then swung out over the Great Barrier Reef to swing round to land.

Diversions are normal here, but unusual descents like that are not.
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:34 pm

Gangurru wrote:
I’m in Cairns and it’s just gone 3am. I was just woken by NZ87 AKL-HKG landing. It was B772 ZK-OKG.

Sorry, I can’t seem to find how post a screenshot of flight radar. It was at cruising altitude over Mission Beach, which is only 130kms south of the airport. It then swung out over the Great Barrier Reef to swing round to land.

Diversions are normal here, but unusual descents like that are not.

I see it https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... g#2004410b

It looked like it was on an AKL-HKG route that overflies Cairns anyway so I'd suspect they weren't actually intending on landing in Cairns until something happened and they decided to divert there when they were quite close to reaching Cairns. They would've then needed some time for the flight crew to plan and prepare for the approach (pull the relevant charts, program the flight management system for approach and landing at Cairns, and have an arrival briefing, etc), as well as for cabin crew to secure the cabin for landing (wake pax, make announcement, ensure "bags are stowed away, seatbelts are fastened, seatback is upright, tray table folded away, and window shade open"), before they start descending. So I would speculate that the unusual path was to buy some time to get organized before starting the descent into Cairns on a last-minute diversion.

I see OKG took off again about two hours later to continue to HKG so I would think it's probably not an aircraft issue (or if it is, it's not a major one). Most likely to be a passenger medical emergency but could be a variety of other things.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:48 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
OZ had been mentioned recently about an ICN-AKL flight, which made sense, I’m not sure it does now, maybe a codeshare with NZ, I expected the other way around.

OZ has had a shortage of suitable long-haul planes, with its 359s only now coming online. OZ has also had financial issues, and scandals. NZ is a more sustainable option for the route, at least to start.

What I do think will be interesting is, down the line, whether we see NZ start to develop JVs with BR to TPE, and OZ to ICN, with BR and OZ 'topping-up' NZ capacity (like UA does on the AKL-SFO route).

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:50 pm

NPL8800 wrote:
Interesting that Munda airport in the Solomon Islands is looking to add AKL flights.

You would imagine we would see Port Moresby and/or Honiara, before we see Munda.

Cheers,

C.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:34 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
Interesting that Munda airport in the Solomon Islands is looking to add AKL flights.

You would imagine we would see Port Moresby and/or Honiara, before we see Munda.

Cheers,

C.


Actually, Munda will be the route that will start AKL. The airline and country are investing heavily in tourism which is HQ’d in their Western Province. Much of the rest of the country has been devastated by forestry and mining. A Solomon Airlines route will likely start as a triangular one AKL-MUA-HIR-AKL but returning to Auckland on a different day. This is how the flights are starting to BNE. Eventually there will be dedicated Munda flights though.

Tourists to the country inevitably head to Western Province and flights direct to Munda from Brisbane, Sydney and Auckland (and eventually Noumea) will make it cheaper, easier and quicker to do so. Flights to HIR are unnecessary for tourism so maybe the airline will purchase smaller A220 jets to service domestic and regional international routes like Air Vanuatu have. IE currently operates an A320.

I hope they can kickstart demand for New Zealand soon.

Here’s the original article about Munda and Western Province opening up. New Zealand has invested heavily in it.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/385915/western-province-solomons-new-international-gateway

I think you’re likely right that POM will be first though.
Last edited by Motorhussy on Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:55 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:34 pm

DavidJ08 wrote:
Gangurru wrote:
I’m in Cairns and it’s just gone 3am. I was just woken by NZ87 AKL-HKG landing. It was B772 ZK-OKG.

Sorry, I can’t seem to find how post a screenshot of flight radar. It was at cruising altitude over Mission Beach, which is only 130kms south of the airport. It then swung out over the Great Barrier Reef to swing round to land.

Diversions are normal here, but unusual descents like that are not.

I see it https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... g#2004410b

It looked like it was on an AKL-HKG route that overflies Cairns anyway so I'd suspect they weren't actually intending on landing in Cairns until something happened and they decided to divert there when they were quite close to reaching Cairns. They would've then needed some time for the flight crew to plan and prepare for the approach (pull the relevant charts, program the flight management system for approach and landing at Cairns, and have an arrival briefing, etc), as well as for cabin crew to secure the cabin for landing (wake pax, make announcement, ensure "bags are stowed away, seatbelts are fastened, seatback is upright, tray table folded away, and window shade open"), before they start descending. So I would speculate that the unusual path was to buy some time to get organized before starting the descent into Cairns on a last-minute diversion.

I see OKG took off again about two hours later to continue to HKG so I would think it's probably not an aircraft issue (or if it is, it's not a major one). Most likely to be a passenger medical emergency but could be a variety of other things.


Offloaded a medical passenger.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:43 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
What I do think will be interesting is, down the line, whether we see NZ start to develop JVs with BR to TPE, and OZ to ICN, with BR and OZ 'topping-up' NZ capacity (like UA does on the AKL-SFO route).


Agreed, and I think this is a strategically sound approach, particularly for destinations with significant language and cultural differences like Taiwan and Korea. I’d imagine that there’d be a number of people from each of those countries who’d perceive a challenge with flying an airline that may not have sufficient crew with language skills to suit, or onboard cuisine and signage that reflects their culture.

A route top-up may by OZ and BR should assuage some of those concerns and encourage more people to visit Aotearoa. Plus they may end of on an NZ flight on one leg and really enjoy it (hopefully).
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planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:16 am

Motorhussy wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
What I do think will be interesting is, down the line, whether we see NZ start to develop JVs with BR to TPE, and OZ to ICN, with BR and OZ 'topping-up' NZ capacity (like UA does on the AKL-SFO route).


Agreed, and I think this is a strategically sound approach, particularly for destinations with significant language and cultural differences like Taiwan and Korea. I’d imagine that there’d be a number of people from each of those countries who’d perceive a challenge with flying an airline that may not have sufficient crew with language skills to suit, or onboard cuisine and signage that reflects their culture.

A route top-up may by OZ and BR should assuage some of those concerns and encourage more people to visit Aotearoa. Plus they may end of on an NZ flight on one leg and really enjoy it (hopefully).

I think Asian passengers are becoming more sophisticated, and not solely sticking to their national carriers for cultural/language familiarity - you've seen this by the success of many new foreign carriers to places like ICN and TPE, and also by public diplomacy issues faced by national carriers in the region (particularly KE/OZ).

In my view, the key benefit to having BR and OZ metal involved in JV expansion plans is that, by having those carriers having 'skin in the game' as such, there's more impetus for them to market, promote and champion New Zealand to their core customer base. That, as well as spreading/managing risks for NZ going it alone.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:18 am

Motorhussy wrote:
Actually, Munda will be the route that will start AKL. The airline and country are investing heavily in tourism which is HQ’d in their Western Province. Much of the rest of the country has been devastated by forestry and mining. A Solomon Airlines route will likely start as a triangular one AKL-MUA-HIR-AKL but returning to Auckland on a different day. This is how the flights are starting to BNE. Eventually there will be dedicated Munda flights though.

Tourists to the country inevitably head to Western Province and flights direct to Munda from Brisbane, Sydney and Auckland (and eventually Noumea) will make it cheaper, easier and quicker to do so. Flights to HIR are unnecessary for tourism so maybe the airline will purchase smaller A220 jets to service domestic and regional international routes like Air Vanuatu have. IE currently operates an A320.

While Munda has tourism potential, I presume Honiara is where most of the cargo (imports/exports) go through, with cargo important for island routes? Therefore, the triangular route you suggest could be interesting.

Cheers,

C.
 
Kiwijason
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:06 pm

Quick question.
How long has NZ1 been scheduled to land at AKL @3;30am? I always thought they were scheduled for 5-5:30am? Did they lose the later slot at LAX? Is AKL going to turn into a 24/7 airport?
 
Kiwijason
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:46 pm

You know what. I'll bet that flight I saw this morning was a one off delayed overnight flight from the day before . What threw me off was the scheduled arrival time of 3:30am at AKL. Bonus day in LA for a flight full of people I guess
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:50 am

I flew back from BNE/AKL last night on the new A321 and I have not been a particular fan of the A320 but this A321 with the extra length and bigger engines looks way better aesthetically. Inside it is a loong plane, we got the 2 emergency exit seats 27 D+E which is right behind the mid-ship toilet, which has to be the worlds smallest it seems! This area has quite a spacious feeling about it, the extra exit row space plus 2 seats missing (2x2) and the rows being off-set makes for a more relaxed layout. Mind you there were only 3 of us occupying the 7 seats on offer in this area. The seats themselves are quite minimalist and curved around the body, almost like a Recaro car seat. I am not big but found it pretty snug, so if you are bigger than 1.7m / 75kg you may feel the wrap around sides digging in. On take off I was impressed at the low level of noise from these NEO engines, gone is the annoying supersonic fan blade tip noise from the A320, very smooth and classy
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:25 am

I've ummed and ahh over posting this for a few days as I'm aware I'm seen as an 'NZ fanboy' and I don't want to provoke that argument.

However, this had not been raised and NZ2 comments above gave me further thought. The A321 was criticized for its LOPA on paper before any delivery, not just here but in other article, opinion pieces or reviews as well. This written by some as a continuation from the 10 abreast change NZ made on their 777's... Since it's delivery I've read a lot of good things.. I'm also hearing from friends and family who have been on board, they say it's actually a nice cabin.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/ ... d=12218580
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/111 ... ice-awards
https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/TravelersChoice-Airlines

What do we make of this? This isn't an opinion by the author or authors, it's travellers choice based on Trip Advisors data and algorithms.. so not 100% accurate I doubt anything can be, but another way of reviewing it.

How do we see this?

Is being in the top 10 a good achievement? does it suggest that 'overall' NZ's a good airline?
 
torin
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:06 am

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/111767169/air-nz-pours-cold-water-on-suggestions-its-planning-new-regional-jet-services

Air New Zealand says it has no "current plans" to introduce jets on routes serviced by turboprop aircraft but one aviation leader says he's heard otherwise.


Wonder if this has any substance to it?
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:22 am

torin wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/111767169/air-nz-pours-cold-water-on-suggestions-its-planning-new-regional-jet-services

Air New Zealand says it has no "current plans" to introduce jets on routes serviced by turboprop aircraft but one aviation leader says he's heard otherwise.


Wonder if this has any substance to it?

Someone on one of the New Zealand Aviation pages on facebook posted a comment several days before it was talked about in the papera that a senior Air Nelson executive has stated the merger with RJs.

Not every regional route is suited to an RJ, so would be interesting to see how NZ handle an ATR/Q300 fleet also if Air Nelson/Mt Cook go in house
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nz2
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:57 am

tealnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
IMO there has to be a 78-10ER in future, the 77W worldwide replacement will kick off in around 5 years in bulk, Boeing have the 789 on the low end with the 78J for shorter runs up to 10-11hrs as is then a large step up to the niche 778 and the almost 747 size 779 on the upper end. I think a 78-10ER with a strengthened landing gear etc is a given. I agree they will keep the 77W replacement open for now but imo likely a 78-10 for LAX/SFO/LHR.Future fleet and I keep rehashing will ultimately be 789/78J, A321/320, ATR 72-600. Just my opinion of course but as good as the A350 is it’s another type when I believe the 787 could do all of NZ’s routes in one form or another.

The 787 seems to have an extraordinary grip on a.netters' imagination. The reality is that the difference between the 254t MTOW of the 789/78J and the 280t MTOW of the A359 is directly reflected in capability (payload/range). And that that difference is highly relevant for a leisure-oriented cargo-heavy airline like NZ that wants to fly not only to US west coast but to inland and east coast USA. We're talking ranges that are beyond the capabilities of the 78J and even the 789 unless you go for extreme low density cabins or block lots of seats westbound and eliminate cargo.

The 78J will be a great Asian aircraft if they buy it (and switch to a J seat that can fit 1-2-1 in the narrow 787 cabin). But it won't do the 13 hours plus sectors from LAX/SFO. The 789 will continue to struggle on ORD until a 77E replacement joins the fleet. NYC will have to wait until then as well. The 787 is marginal for North America. It's that simple.

.


Always makes me scratch my head how some complain about the "narrow" 787 cabin yet it is wider that all the Airbus 330/340 types still flying, no complaints about their "narrow" fuselage?

Plus the 787 is being seriously considered by NZ because it is that much more efficient than the a350 per passenger. It all depends what you want from the aircraft and the routes you want to fly and numbers you want to carry, or are available to carry
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:02 am

nz2 wrote:
tealnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
IMO there has to be a 78-10ER in future, the 77W worldwide replacement will kick off in around 5 years in bulk, Boeing have the 789 on the low end with the 78J for shorter runs up to 10-11hrs as is then a large step up to the niche 778 and the almost 747 size 779 on the upper end. I think a 78-10ER with a strengthened landing gear etc is a given. I agree they will keep the 77W replacement open for now but imo likely a 78-10 for LAX/SFO/LHR.Future fleet and I keep rehashing will ultimately be 789/78J, A321/320, ATR 72-600. Just my opinion of course but as good as the A350 is it’s another type when I believe the 787 could do all of NZ’s routes in one form or another.

The 787 seems to have an extraordinary grip on a.netters' imagination. The reality is that the difference between the 254t MTOW of the 789/78J and the 280t MTOW of the A359 is directly reflected in capability (payload/range). And that that difference is highly relevant for a leisure-oriented cargo-heavy airline like NZ that wants to fly not only to US west coast but to inland and east coast USA. We're talking ranges that are beyond the capabilities of the 78J and even the 789 unless you go for extreme low density cabins or block lots of seats westbound and eliminate cargo.

The 78J will be a great Asian aircraft if they buy it (and switch to a J seat that can fit 1-2-1 in the narrow 787 cabin). But it won't do the 13 hours plus sectors from LAX/SFO. The 789 will continue to struggle on ORD until a 77E replacement joins the fleet. NYC will have to wait until then as well. The 787 is marginal for North America. It's that simple.

.


Always makes me scratch my head how some complain about the "narrow" 787 cabin yet it is wider that all the Airbus 330/340 types still flying, no complaints about their "narrow" fuselage?

Plus the 787 is being seriously considered by NZ because it is that much more efficient than the a350 per passenger. It all depends what you want from the aircraft and the routes you want to fly and numbers you want to carry, or are available to carry


Eh, the 787 at NZ is 9 abreast? As opposed to 8 abreast for the JAL 787s or the 8 abreast on the 330
 
nz2
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:17 am

"Eh, the 787 at NZ is 9 abreast? As opposed to 8 abreast for the JAL 787s or the 8 abreast on the 330"

If you read the post it was referring to the narrow cabin not fitting 1-2-1 in biz class. All 787's I fly are 7 abreast or better, the most perfect plane.....
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:29 am

Kiwijason wrote:
Quick question.
How long has NZ1 been scheduled to land at AKL @3;30am? I always thought they were scheduled for 5-5:30am? Did they lose the later slot at LAX? Is AKL going to turn into a 24/7 airport?


AKL is already an 24/7 airport, what dates are you seeing at 3:30?
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:37 am

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/new ... d=12219364

Nothing really new I don’t think here, only allow us to keep talking about the upcoming order
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:39 am

zkncj wrote:
Kiwijason wrote:
Quick question.
How long has NZ1 been scheduled to land at AKL @3;30am? I always thought they were scheduled for 5-5:30am? Did they lose the later slot at LAX? Is AKL going to turn into a 24/7 airport?


AKL is already an 24/7 airport, what dates are you seeing at 3:30?


He corrected himself in the next post, there was a 22 hr delay ex LHR a on the 1st.
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:13 am

zkncj wrote:
Kiwijason wrote:
Quick question.
How long has NZ1 been scheduled to land at AKL @3;30am? I always thought they were scheduled for 5-5:30am? Did they lose the later slot at LAX? Is AKL going to turn into a 24/7 airport?


AKL is already an 24/7 airport, what dates are you seeing at 3:30?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... q#200631e6
This is the flight in question, and further down the page is the list of flights OKQ has operated - NZ1 cancelled ex LHR on the 1st, OKQ subsequently flew back LHR-LAX-AKL as NZ6071 which arrived in AKL about 3.30am.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread = April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:35 am

nz2 wrote:
tealnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
IMO there has to be a 78-10ER in future, the 77W worldwide replacement will kick off in around 5 years in bulk, Boeing have the 789 on the low end with the 78J for shorter runs up to 10-11hrs as is then a large step up to the niche 778 and the almost 747 size 779 on the upper end. I think a 78-10ER with a strengthened landing gear etc is a given. I agree they will keep the 77W replacement open for now but imo likely a 78-10 for LAX/SFO/LHR.Future fleet and I keep rehashing will ultimately be 789/78J, A321/320, ATR 72-600. Just my opinion of course but as good as the A350 is it’s another type when I believe the 787 could do all of NZ’s routes in one form or another.

The 787 seems to have an extraordinary grip on a.netters' imagination. The reality is that the difference between the 254t MTOW of the 789/78J and the 280t MTOW of the A359 is directly reflected in capability (payload/range). And that that difference is highly relevant for a leisure-oriented cargo-heavy airline like NZ that wants to fly not only to US west coast but to inland and east coast USA. We're talking ranges that are beyond the capabilities of the 78J and even the 789 unless you go for extreme low density cabins or block lots of seats westbound and eliminate cargo.

The 78J will be a great Asian aircraft if they buy it (and switch to a J seat that can fit 1-2-1 in the narrow 787 cabin). But it won't do the 13 hours plus sectors from LAX/SFO. The 789 will continue to struggle on ORD until a 77E replacement joins the fleet. NYC will have to wait until then as well. The 787 is marginal for North America. It's that simple.

.


Always makes me scratch my head how some complain about the "narrow" 787 cabin yet it is wider that all the Airbus 330/340 types still flying, no complaints about their "narrow" fuselage?

Plus the 787 is being seriously considered by NZ because it is that much more efficient than the a350 per passenger. It all depends what you want from the aircraft and the routes you want to fly and numbers you want to carry, or are available to carry

The 787 is narrower than the 777 and because it has the large bins and 9 across seating does tend to feel quite cramped. The 777 is just as cramped but as it has more open headspace does seem a lot bigger.
The 789 is only more efficient than an A359 if you configure it with a high seat count and fly it over shorter distances. The A359 kicks ass over longer sectors in a Y heavy configuration when you include payload. For NZ I would say the A359 would be better for IAH and ORD, and of course EWR. It is probably about even for YVR depending on configuration. The 789 should win for LAX and SFO.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:57 am

Canada Jetlines announced today that they are not taking AerCap A320s ZK-OJN and ZK-OJO as they are delaying the launch of commercial operations until 17 Dec 2019.

.... Jetlines and AerCap have mutually agreed to terminate the leases of the two Airbus A320 aircraft, and Jetlines has entered into a letter of intent with its partner, SmartLynx SIA, for the lease of two alternate Airbus A320 ....


https://www.globenewswire.com/news-rele ... iming.html

PA515
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:03 am

Air NZ ATR 72-600 ZK-MVX (msn 1551) on delivery TLS-TZX as SXI1921.

https://www.flightradar24.com/SXI1921/2009aff3

PA515
 
Kiwijason
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:50 pm

Thanks for the clarification regarding NZ1.
It seems the good peoples got an extra day in London as opposed to LAX.
Honestly I wouldn't mind a 3:30am arrival time in AKL for flights from the US.
One way to beat the customs crush and rush hour traffic in Auckland.
Bet the customs and Immigration people wouldn't like it so much!

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