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NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:54 am

aerokiwi wrote:
Piecemeal capex to just barely cope with growth while satisfying short-term financial targets and shareholders. Then wheel out the CEO every now and again - anyone remember the "single architectural vision" from a year or so back? No? That's what they're counting on - and whamo you've got yourself an investment strategy.

Some other points:

1. What would have happened had the Canadian pension fund been allowed to purchase it before all the nationalistic dribble from the politicians? While, yes, they're private too, pension funds have long term horizons and have a lot of skill in forecasting and planning, which apparently AIAL severely lacks.

2. AIAL are always congratulated for their business acumen, usually just before reports of unanticipated passenger growth is brushed aside as a "she'll be right, oh well it happens and is unforeseeable" kind of thing. AIAL management are remarkably bad at predicting growth in their core industry if that's the case.

3. Which brings us to the piecemeal capex. Auckland Airport is under a constant state of renovation. Landside services have actually declined from the days I worked there, when one objective was to turn the airport into a destination in its own right, with plenty of shopping, eating and aviation related activities for non-travellers. Landside at international has reduced to small, loud, unpleasant foodcourt. I'd say the international terminal peaked around 2000-2002 in terms of amenity.

4. Meanwhile capex keeps getting pushed out so that we're now at a point where construction costs have skyrocketed, interest rates are likely to rise increasing cost of borrowing and airlines are in a more hostile relationship with AIAL. End result, whatever capex plans the airport has will be scaled back.

I see the same at Melbourne too, the result of very short termism and piecemeal investment, yet ironically hugely disruptive as construction just gets drawn out forever as each little new shop gets tacked on. A shame, but a very Kiwi/Aussie approach to critical infrastructure.


All very valid and why I erred on the side of defending AIAL earlier in the week.

However, AKLI has had a lot of development around the retail precinct with vs the number of new gates built.

With domestic, why not introduce a development levi/tax.. aka the KK tax for international pax, or seen at PMR, ROT... there are ways to raise funds, why not privatize a terminal?

My main beef is AKLD which is horrid.
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:01 am

I think we are already starting to see the works begin regarding the integrated terminal, however they aren't always picked up on as they can seem unrelated but they are all part of the sequencing. Think of the following that all has to be done prior to commencement of construction of the physical building on the airfield:

Movement of cargo facilities (To Manu Tapu Rd),
Where will the "can farm" and associated make up area for international baggage cans be moved too?,
Commencement of duplication of Taxiway (Lima?) to Pier B and the new associated 6 stands which is about to commence,
Where will JQ regional flights be moved to when terminal construction actually starts, will the domestic JQ jet push back zone be affected and if so how will this be mitigated?
Relocation of underground services in the foot print of the new terminal area.

And then inside the actual building these are likely some of the factors that are slowing things down but are critical to get right from the get go:

Baggage induction and make up, will this be integrated to the international system or operate separately? Will it be conveyor or another option (Tech is changing in this area), will it be auto bag drop, throw on the belt like WLG, or manual induction?
How will check in operate, common use or individual? I'd imagine the ideal goal is for common use but airlines will have to play ball for it to be successful.
AVSEC, how much space do they need, what equipment will they use, will body scanners play a part, will it be auto tray return or manual (This affects space quite dramatically) will it be 100% screening for domestic flights or still the 90 seat threshold, if the latter no doubt space will have to be incorporated for the possibility of 100%.

When you start to take all these things into consideration i'm not surprised it is taking a long time, and quite frankly makes things like the number of aerobridges and airline lounge space rather inconsequential and at the bottom of the to do list.

Personally I have little issue with the current set up at the domestic terminal, yes it looks a tad tired and could do with more seats but at the end of the day its simple to navigate, has clean bathrooms and is fast to move through which for a domestic terminal is adequate. I'd like to see more emphasis regarding queues put back on the passengers and in some cases their poor time management. If you're standing in a security queue for 10-15 minutes then there is no excuse to not be prepared by the time you get to the front, the same goes for the boarding queue for those using a mobile device.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:29 am

NPL8800 wrote:
I think we are already starting to see the works begin regarding the integrated terminal, however they aren't always picked up on as they can seem unrelated but they are all part of the sequencing. Think of the following that all has to be done prior to commencement of construction of the physical building on the airfield:

Movement of cargo facilities (To Manu Tapu Rd),
Where will the "can farm" and associated make up area for international baggage cans be moved too?,
Commencement of duplication of Taxiway (Lima?) to Pier B and the new associated 6 stands which is about to commence,
Where will JQ regional flights be moved to when terminal construction actually starts, will the domestic JQ jet push back zone be affected and if so how will this be mitigated?
Relocation of underground services in the foot print of the new terminal area.

And then inside the actual building these are likely some of the factors that are slowing things down but are critical to get right from the get go:

Baggage induction and make up, will this be integrated to the international system or operate separately? Will it be conveyor or another option (Tech is changing in this area), will it be auto bag drop, throw on the belt like WLG, or manual induction?
How will check in operate, common use or individual? I'd imagine the ideal goal is for common use but airlines will have to play ball for it to be successful.
AVSEC, how much space do they need, what equipment will they use, will body scanners play a part, will it be auto tray return or manual (This affects space quite dramatically) will it be 100% screening for domestic flights or still the 90 seat threshold, if the latter no doubt space will have to be incorporated for the possibility of 100%.

When you start to take all these things into consideration i'm not surprised it is taking a long time, and quite frankly makes things like the number of aerobridges and airline lounge space rather inconsequential and at the bottom of the to do list.

Personally I have little issue with the current set up at the domestic terminal, yes it looks a tad tired and could do with more seats but at the end of the day its simple to navigate, has clean bathrooms and is fast to move through which for a domestic terminal is adequate. I'd like to see more emphasis regarding queues put back on the passengers and in some cases their poor time management. If you're standing in a security queue for 10-15 minutes then there is no excuse to not be prepared by the time you get to the front, the same goes for the boarding queue for those using a mobile device.

You could probably start and move one airline over first (probably JQ since they are small) and could have that up and running relatively quickly while the rest of it is built over another year or so for NZ. That would give NZ more space at Domestic in the meantime.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:48 am

NZ6 wrote:

With domestic, why not introduce a development levi/tax.. aka the KK tax for international pax, or seen at PMR, ROT... there are ways to raise funds, why not privatize a terminal?

My main beef is AKLD which is horrid.


AKL already up there with taxes/fee and doesn't need to get any more expensive (probably wouldn't go down to well on the PR front either).

While AKL domestic does need to be replaced, at the moment its fit for purposes and does the job fine sure its overcrowded at times but at the same time its small size allows for to be user friendly and you don't need to be there to early. Being able to be into your car within 5minutes of arriving at the gate.

There is worse out there like TXL (Berlin Tegal)
 
tu2130
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:27 am

ZK-NZJ Headed out for a after-maintenance flight out of Auckland on Good Friday, It's now in the skies again
Air New Zealand. Proud to fly.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:52 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

With domestic, why not introduce a development levi/tax.. aka the KK tax for international pax, or seen at PMR, ROT... there are ways to raise funds, why not privatize a terminal?

My main beef is AKLD which is horrid.


AKL already up there with taxes/fee and doesn't need to get any more expensive (probably wouldn't go down to well on the PR front either).

While AKL domestic does need to be replaced, at the moment its fit for purposes and does the job fine sure its overcrowded at times but at the same time its small size allows for to be user friendly and you don't need to be there to early. Being able to be into your car within 5minutes of arriving at the gate.

There is worse out there like TXL (Berlin Tegal)


Fit for purpose, far from it....It's so over capacity that...

The baggage system is unable to cater for passengers checking in early for flights due to overcrowding of the belt and storage area.
There are only 2x A321 gates
There are almost no extra gate slots but demand for extra flights
Drop off and pick up is the worst in Australiasia
Passengers are missing flights due to security screening and lack of room to expand meaning during peak-period customers are being asked to check in early just to avoid that but not too early as the airline can't handle their bags.

Air NZ are preparing to be there an extra 10 years and the airlines are now at crisis point and have dedicated teams to work on projects for how to make it work.

Do we call that fit for purpose?

As for a tax, international passengers pay close to $30 return via a KK tax, I'd need to book a flight to check it's the exact value. Domestic pay nothing, a development level of $5-$10 would be bad short term PR but long term gain. Personally, I'd pay it IF there was a timeline.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:06 am

I don’t think AKL domestic is fit for use really, certainly not for another 10 years when it reached capacity 10 years ago. NZ now have to use larger aircraft again after only retiring the last 733 only 3.5 years ago, they have plenty of frequency as it is, but can the terminal handle another 100-150 pax at a time with A321s being used, let alone having enough gates to handle the larger aircraft to complicate things more.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:55 pm

NPL8800 wrote:
AVSEC, how much space do they need, what equipment will they use, will body scanners play a part, will it be auto tray return or manual (This affects space quite dramatically) will it be 100% screening for domestic flights or still the 90 seat threshold, if the latter no doubt space will have to be incorporated for the possibility of 100%.

I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but I think we can safely bank on screening being extended to more flights - maybe not all domestic flights, but maybe all flights operating under part 121, or all flights on multi-engine turbine aircraft, or all flights on aircraft 18 seats and up. I can’t imagine them extending security to cover operations like Barrier Air or Fly My Sky, but I could imagine other regional operators (Air Nelson, Mt Cook, Eastern Australia, Air Chathams) being brought into it. That’s going to make for some interesting decisions in terms of where to locate security check-points. I imagine all the projects for the domestic terminal have been getting a through review in the past 5 weeks.

NPL8800 wrote:
Personally I have little issue with the current set up at the domestic terminal, yes it looks a tad tired and could do with more seats but at the end of the day its simple to navigate, has clean bathrooms and is fast to move through which for a domestic terminal is adequate. I'd like to see more emphasis regarding queues put back on the passengers and in some cases their poor time management. If you're standing in a security queue for 10-15 minutes then there is no excuse to not be prepared by the time you get to the front, the same goes for the boarding queue for those using a mobile device.

I don’t know how regularly you use it, or which part of it you use mostly, but my experience has been different:
  • Easy to navigate? People looking lost along the walkways to gates 34-50 is an everyday occurrence, as are people looking lost trying to find specific airlines or the arrivals area for specific flights.
  • Clean bathrooms? The ones by the Air New Zealand baggage carousel are pleasant enough, but the ones by the Air New Zealand regional check-in are frequently dingy.
  • Add to those points, there is simply not enough space to move around, particularly on busier days when trolleys begin stacking up across walkways, and queues stretch from the Air New Zealand and Air Chathams counters across the building with no crowd control measures in place. The walkway to gates 34-50 is cold, dingy, damp, and worst of all appallingly loud with an aircraft running alongside it. The equivalent structures in Christchurch and Wellington are a country mile better.

It is unfortunate that Auckland Airport seem intent on squeezing every last bit of life out of this terminal which has really past its best before date.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:51 pm

The problem with Auckland airport is its owners, the Auckland city council should never have privatised it. NZ needs a central govt owned enterprise that owns and operates all its airports, like AVINOR in Norway.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:40 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
The problem with Auckland airport is its owners, the Auckland city council should never have privatised it. NZ needs a central govt owned enterprise that owns and operates all its airports, like AVINOR in Norway.

It was the government (National Party - no surprise) that privatised it. Auckland council held on to a decent stake. Should never have been sold.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:08 pm

People missing there flights due to AVSEC lines? Isn’t that an AVSEC issue not an AIAL issue? They always seem to be understaffed with not all equipment being used. If they were to fit the new auto processing from International and increased staffing that problem would go away.

Having recently down an couple of trips around Europe AKL Domestic isn’t bad, I’ve seen far worse in Europe, ever tried flying from the Termials commonly used by Ryan Air or EssayJet? They are extremely bad.

One of the problems we have is we have an Domestic market that expects there $19-39 fares to be the norm. As soon as you build an big flash termials, that gone (and could reduce passengers numbers).

You could say part of the problem is NZ/JQ are selling fares to cheap...
 
Gangurru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:49 pm

zkncj wrote:
One of the problems we have is we have an Domestic market that expects there $19-39 fares to be the norm. As soon as you build an big flash termials, that gone (and could reduce passengers numbers).

You could say part of the problem is NZ/JQ are selling fares to cheap...


I am unsure what costs the current outdated terminal imposes directly and indirectly imposes on the airlines. Maybe there will be efficiencies from operating from a modern purpose built facility that will support lower fares on an ongoing basis?
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:44 pm

One of the benefits for the carriers at domestic is that they have full control over gate allocation and internal gate setups for "their" gates, Any new terminal will be common user gates as it is at international, which.is not a good option for hub ops. My understanding is that the additional domestic screening for regional is undertaken by SecureFlight rather than avsec, they also do the secondary screening for US-bound departures.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:21 am

zkncj wrote:
People missing there flights due to AVSEC lines? Isn’t that an AVSEC issue not an AIAL issue? They always seem to be understaffed with not all equipment being used. If they were to fit the new auto processing from International and increased staffing that problem would go away.

Having recently down an couple of trips around Europe AKL Domestic isn’t bad, I’ve seen far worse in Europe, ever tried flying from the Termials commonly used by Ryan Air or EssayJet? They are extremely bad.

One of the problems we have is we have an Domestic market that expects there $19-39 fares to be the norm. As soon as you build an big flash termials, that gone (and could reduce passengers numbers).

You could say part of the problem is NZ/JQ are selling fares to cheap...


- If AVSEC can't expand to cater for the number of passengers needing to be processed due to the building space provided and available to them, then I call that an AIAL issue.
- Air NZ is no EasyJet or Ryan Air. While NZ tries to market themselves as an affordable carrier and while they don't offer meals etc, they are still premium airline with a strong reputation, especially amongst the corporate market.

I agree with the issue around low airfares, but building a terminal which could better cater for the A321 and even scheduled 787's Ops would actually improve the number of seats... it's the old supply and demand model
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:25 am

NZ6 wrote:

- If AVSEC can't expand to cater for the number of passengers needing to be processed due to the building space provided and available to them, then I call that an AIAL issue.


Don't think AVSEC screening space is currently the issue at AKL domestic - it more seems to be a staffing issue - e.g. I've been though at some busy times with an only 3 screening lines in operation while the reset of the equipment is sitting idle and staff less.


NZ6 wrote:
- Air NZ is no EasyJet or Ryan Air. While NZ tries to market themselves as an affordable carrier and while they don't offer meals etc, they are still premium airline with a strong reputation, especially amongst the corporate market.


NZ/U2 onboard service levels are about the same these days, the only bonus with NZ is the free tea/coffee.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:10 am

Kiwirob wrote:
The problem with Auckland airport is its owners, the Auckland city council should never have privatised it. NZ needs a central govt owned enterprise that owns and operates all its airports, like AVINOR in Norway.


Its ownership is fragmented across small holdings. Auckland Council could exert pressure but Auckland Council is pretty hopeless and weak willed to do anything of much value.

It's not necessarily that the company is privately held - it's more the type of that ownership. Like I said, the rejection of the Canadian pension Fund in taking a majority ownership by the Helen Clark Government was probably a major dunce move.

How has keeping it in local hands benefitted anyone? Do we have a world class facility? Are all those profits being pumped into other more prodcutove investment classes? No. It's a monopoly asset that gives shareholders, usually older ones, a nice dividend stream each year and they're happy as Larry to keep that ticking over with no change. So no pressure on management to invest and develop their asset, just to ensure that dividen keeps going.

Pension funds bring strategic long term investment thinking that AIAL clearly lacks. They are patient and savvy investors. Trust government to muck that one up.
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:50 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
AVSEC, how much space do they need, what equipment will they use, will body scanners play a part, will it be auto tray return or manual (This affects space quite dramatically) will it be 100% screening for domestic flights or still the 90 seat threshold, if the latter no doubt space will have to be incorporated for the possibility of 100%.

I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but I think we can safely bank on screening being extended to more flights - maybe not all domestic flights, but maybe all flights operating under part 121, or all flights on multi-engine turbine aircraft, or all flights on aircraft 18 seats and up. I can’t imagine them extending security to cover operations like Barrier Air or Fly My Sky, but I could imagine other regional operators (Air Nelson, Mt Cook, Eastern Australia, Air Chathams) being brought into it. That’s going to make for some interesting decisions in terms of where to locate security check-points. I imagine all the projects for the domestic terminal have been getting a through review in the past 5 weeks.

NPL8800 wrote:
Personally I have little issue with the current set up at the domestic terminal, yes it looks a tad tired and could do with more seats but at the end of the day its simple to navigate, has clean bathrooms and is fast to move through which for a domestic terminal is adequate. I'd like to see more emphasis regarding queues put back on the passengers and in some cases their poor time management. If you're standing in a security queue for 10-15 minutes then there is no excuse to not be prepared by the time you get to the front, the same goes for the boarding queue for those using a mobile device.

I don’t know how regularly you use it, or which part of it you use mostly, but my experience has been different:
  • Easy to navigate? People looking lost along the walkways to gates 34-50 is an everyday occurrence, as are people looking lost trying to find specific airlines or the arrivals area for specific flights.
  • Clean bathrooms? The ones by the Air New Zealand baggage carousel are pleasant enough, but the ones by the Air New Zealand regional check-in are frequently dingy.
  • Add to those points, there is simply not enough space to move around, particularly on busier days when trolleys begin stacking up across walkways, and queues stretch from the Air New Zealand and Air Chathams counters across the building with no crowd control measures in place. The walkway to gates 34-50 is cold, dingy, damp, and worst of all appallingly loud with an aircraft running alongside it. The equivalent structures in Christchurch and Wellington are a country mile better.

It is unfortunate that Auckland Airport seem intent on squeezing every last bit of life out of this terminal which has really past its best before date.

V/F


I regularly use both core sections, regional the majority of the time but increasingly the national / jet section as of late. At the end of the day it's ultimately a very subjective topic and experiences will always differ based on personal habits and travel styles, I'm a more cautious traveller in the sense that I allow plenty of time, use the way finding if necessary (most people don't tbh), have expectations that I feel appropriate to the type of sector I'm travelling on. I don't expect the airport to amuse me.

Ultimately working in the industry also greatly changes the way you think about airports and the process in general and you become increasingly aware of everything that is involved that is generally overlooked by the media and everyday travellers.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:45 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

- If AVSEC can't expand to cater for the number of passengers needing to be processed due to the building space provided and available to them, then I call that an AIAL issue.


Don't think AVSEC screening space is currently the issue at AKL domestic - it more seems to be a staffing issue - e.g. I've been though at some busy times with an only 3 screening lines in operation while the reset of the equipment is sitting idle and staff less.

While there do sometimes seem to be times where lanes seem empty, I feel confident in saying the amount of space is an issue too.

NPL8800 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
AVSEC, how much space do they need, what equipment will they use, will body scanners play a part, will it be auto tray return or manual (This affects space quite dramatically) will it be 100% screening for domestic flights or still the 90 seat threshold, if the latter no doubt space will have to be incorporated for the possibility of 100%.

I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but I think we can safely bank on screening being extended to more flights - maybe not all domestic flights, but maybe all flights operating under part 121, or all flights on multi-engine turbine aircraft, or all flights on aircraft 18 seats and up. I can’t imagine them extending security to cover operations like Barrier Air or Fly My Sky, but I could imagine other regional operators (Air Nelson, Mt Cook, Eastern Australia, Air Chathams) being brought into it. That’s going to make for some interesting decisions in terms of where to locate security check-points. I imagine all the projects for the domestic terminal have been getting a through review in the past 5 weeks.

NPL8800 wrote:
Personally I have little issue with the current set up at the domestic terminal, yes it looks a tad tired and could do with more seats but at the end of the day its simple to navigate, has clean bathrooms and is fast to move through which for a domestic terminal is adequate. I'd like to see more emphasis regarding queues put back on the passengers and in some cases their poor time management. If you're standing in a security queue for 10-15 minutes then there is no excuse to not be prepared by the time you get to the front, the same goes for the boarding queue for those using a mobile device.

I don’t know how regularly you use it, or which part of it you use mostly, but my experience has been different:
  • Easy to navigate? People looking lost along the walkways to gates 34-50 is an everyday occurrence, as are people looking lost trying to find specific airlines or the arrivals area for specific flights.
  • Clean bathrooms? The ones by the Air New Zealand baggage carousel are pleasant enough, but the ones by the Air New Zealand regional check-in are frequently dingy.
  • Add to those points, there is simply not enough space to move around, particularly on busier days when trolleys begin stacking up across walkways, and queues stretch from the Air New Zealand and Air Chathams counters across the building with no crowd control measures in place. The walkway to gates 34-50 is cold, dingy, damp, and worst of all appallingly loud with an aircraft running alongside it. The equivalent structures in Christchurch and Wellington are a country mile better.

It is unfortunate that Auckland Airport seem intent on squeezing every last bit of life out of this terminal which has really past its best before date.

V/F


I regularly use both core sections, regional the majority of the time but increasingly the national / jet section as of late. At the end of the day it's ultimately a very subjective topic and experiences will always differ based on personal habits and travel styles, I'm a more cautious traveller in the sense that I allow plenty of time, use the way finding if necessary (most people don't tbh), have expectations that I feel appropriate to the type of sector I'm travelling on. I don't expect the airport to amuse me.

Ultimately working in the industry also greatly changes the way you think about airports and the process in general and you become increasingly aware of everything that is involved that is generally overlooked by the media and everyday travellers.

I may not have made it clear in my post, but my observations are from working there. I think there is a general understanding that the major issue is the regional gates. The place creaks under the load of passengers on a busy day. Within the last week I have seen:

  • Uncollected trolleys almost blocking access past KrispyKreme
  • Passengers walking out towards Gate 50 looking for the international terminal (because thy are told to follow the green line, and unfortunately the evacuation line in the regional gates is... green)
  • Passengers at completely the wrong end of the the regional gates looking for their flights (with no nearby signage to be able to direct them to - the only flight list boards are at the doors, at the split by gate 47, and next to gate 46. Looking for a a gate and get yourself down to 50? You’re out of luck.
  • Passengers queuing up at the regional gates for flights that aren’t boarding yet, because to someone not familiar with it the whole set up is confusing. The phrase “when can I go through to wait” is probably uttered on an hourly basis to the staff who man those gates.

It hasn’t happened in the last week that I’ve seen, but there have been more than a few instances I have been aware of of people getting onto wrong aircraft altogether.

I feel sorry for people walking along the walkway as an aircraft starts up - the noise exposure is pretty intense, worse than what I have noticed at the same type of walkway in Christchurch. At least airport staff usually have hearing protection with them.

The Auckland Airport staff responsible for the day to day operation of the place do their level best and in my experience have been very responsive where it is possible, but they are working with a hand tied behind their back thanks to the physical infrastructure they have to work with.

While I agree with you that navigating the terminal is fine with a bit of preparation or familiarity, the number of people who seem to struggle with it suggests to me that too high a level of preparation or familiarity is required.

Are the media stories labelling it “third world” (whatever the heck that is supposed to mean) or comparing it with Jewel Changi (seriously‽) over the top and a beat up? Certainly. Is there nonetheless a great deal of room for improvement to the terminal? Without a doubt.

It will be very interesting to see whether changes required for any security changes will be used as an opportunity to address some of the other issues around usability.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:19 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

- If AVSEC can't expand to cater for the number of passengers needing to be processed due to the building space provided and available to them, then I call that an AIAL issue.


Don't think AVSEC screening space is currently the issue at AKL domestic - it more seems to be a staffing issue - e.g. I've been though at some busy times with an only 3 screening lines in operation while the reset of the equipment is sitting idle and staff less.


NZ6 wrote:
- Air NZ is no EasyJet or Ryan Air. While NZ tries to market themselves as an affordable carrier and while they don't offer meals etc, they are still premium airline with a strong reputation, especially amongst the corporate market.


NZ/U2 onboard service levels are about the same these days, the only bonus with NZ is the free tea/coffee.


Surely you're grasping at straws here? Air NZ is not even close to Ryan Air/Easy Jet.

Staffing issues, perhaps a contributing factor. But is it the main issue? No! even with a full contingent of lanes open, the issue still exists.
 
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csturdiv
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:37 am

I just flew EK413 CHC-SYD. As we were taxing out, I thought I saw an ATR and A320 in partial NZ liveries, no titles or logos. It was dusk, so maybe I was not seeing things properly. Does NZ do maintenance at CHC or could these be end of lease birds heading out soon?
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:45 am

csturdiv wrote:
I just flew EK413 CHC-SYD. As we were taxing out, I thought I saw an ATR and A320 in partial NZ liveries, no titles or logos. It was dusk, so maybe I was not seeing things properly. Does NZ do maintenance at CHC or could these be end of lease birds heading out soon?


Ex NZ birds now, not sure exactly which ones, awaiting their final departures from NZ to their new owners.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:48 am

Thanks, so my old eyes were not seeing things in the dusk lighting.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:27 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
csturdiv wrote:
I just flew EK413 CHC-SYD. As we were taxing out, I thought I saw an ATR and A320 in partial NZ liveries, no titles or logos. It was dusk, so maybe I was not seeing things properly. Does NZ do maintenance at CHC or could these be end of lease birds heading out soon?


Ex NZ birds now, not sure exactly which ones, awaiting their final departures from NZ to their new owners.


They were A320 ZK-OJN and ATR ZK-MCB. I saw them parked up when I flew out of CHC on Tuesday.
OJN was meant to go to Canada but was delayed as per previous post from PA515 in this thread:

PA515 wrote:
Canada Jetlines announced today that they are not taking AerCap A320s ZK-OJN and ZK-OJO as they are delaying the launch of commercial operations until 17 Dec 2019.


MCB is still in service and listed here: https://www.myairtrade.com/available/ATR_72
MCC, MCU, MCX, MCY - still in service, MCJ - withdrawn from service and MCO - sold to Air Chathams.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:23 am

My recent NZ flight (PVG-AKL, 787-9) differed somewhat in service quality to what I recall from when I used to do a lot of flying on NZ (2014-16), albeit typically on US routes, and I'm wondering whether this is the new normal or unusual and therefore worth passing onto Air NZ. These were my concerns, and I will grant that most by themselves were totally minor, they just added up to a feeling of lack of care, and quite a contrast to the experience I'd just had on Lufthansa:
- mid-flight I was looking for water, and the IFE drinks thing said that service wasn't being provided so I went to look for a crew member and couldn't find anyone near the back
- the toilets never seem to get cleaned during the flight. This was a big contrast to LH which I saw being cleaned several times by crew and were always pretty neat. Whereas late in the flight NZ had bins overflowing and rather unpleasant floor
- missed at breakfast drinks (perhaps the consequence of being the middle-seat in the middle section)
- breakfast is all cooked options - no continental/cereal-style options (obviously not a crew service thing, that one's on the airline)
- staff didn't all say bye. I know this is a weird one, but on every flight I ever recall the crew are all waiting wherever they are on the plane to say thanks/bye, whereas only perhaps half seemed to do that while the others talked in little circles

Like I say, minor things and very much 'first world problems', but there's an element of pride in the national airline that I've usually felt after NZ flights that was absent after this one.
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:00 am

Does anybody know what config 789 NZ are using SIN-AKL at present?
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:55 am

NZ321 wrote:
Does anybody know what config 789 NZ are using SIN-AKL at present?

Looks to be a mix. ZK-NZC came in tonight as NZ281. Looking at Flightradar24 both 282/281 and 284/283 seem to have been operated by both configurations over the last week; 282 has been K, H, H, H, H, L, C, and 284 has been C, L, M, Q, N.

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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:29 pm

Which 787s are in each configuration?
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:33 pm

Andrensn wrote:
Which 787s are in each configuration?


Refer to the following thread for 787 configurations

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411915
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:24 pm

I may have missed this previously but I don’t recall seeing reference to AKL-CNS going year-round, as reported in the FNQ “Tropic Now”. The article claims that NZ would have been offered a “sweetener” by the State Government to extend the current Mar to Oct season. The additional four months would create 10,000 seats, or about 600 a week - this surely implies two return A320s a week. Interesting.

When MCY was started some years ago there were hints that frequency and season length would expand significantly. Although frequency did increase in the second season and the season extended, there’s been a pretty stable offering in subsequent seasons. For obvious reasons the summer is a harder sell for some of NZ’s “resort” destinations.

For the CNS link see:
https://www.tropicnow.com.au/2018/novem ... airns.html
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:27 pm

Summer CNS flights are not (yet???) loaded into Innosked, making me wonder if there’s a glitch.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:57 pm

axio wrote:
My recent NZ flight (PVG-AKL, 787-9) differed somewhat in service quality to what I recall from when I used to do a lot of flying on NZ (2014-16), albeit typically on US routes, and I'm wondering whether this is the new normal or unusual and therefore worth passing onto Air NZ. These were my concerns, and I will grant that most by themselves were totally minor, they just added up to a feeling of lack of care, and quite a contrast to the experience I'd just had on Lufthansa:
- mid-flight I was looking for water, and the IFE drinks thing said that service wasn't being provided so I went to look for a crew member and couldn't find anyone near the back
- the toilets never seem to get cleaned during the flight. This was a big contrast to LH which I saw being cleaned several times by crew and were always pretty neat. Whereas late in the flight NZ had bins overflowing and rather unpleasant floor
- missed at breakfast drinks (perhaps the consequence of being the middle-seat in the middle section)
- breakfast is all cooked options - no continental/cereal-style options (obviously not a crew service thing, that one's on the airline)
- staff didn't all say bye. I know this is a weird one, but on every flight I ever recall the crew are all waiting wherever they are on the plane to say thanks/bye, whereas only perhaps half seemed to do that while the others talked in little circles

Like I say, minor things and very much 'first world problems', but there's an element of pride in the national airline that I've usually felt after NZ flights that was absent after this one.


Coming back from EZE…

- the electronic ordering was no longer in operation (pretty poor but hasn’t been for sometime) and went to the rear galley and got some from helpful crew.
- toilets were regularly refreshed and I used a number of different ones enjoying the different decor
- was never missed during drinks service, admittedly was in a forward cabin seat but am one who’ll never be overlooked for a drink
- breakfast had two cooked options, both of which came with cereal/fruit as part of it
- crew weren’t effusive in their farewells but appreciative and happy when I thanked them.

Maybe you just had bad luck but I don’t think yours was typical.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:39 pm

Is PVG still staffed by PVG based cabin crew? That could explain the difference.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:41 pm

qf789 wrote:
Andrensn wrote:
Which 787s are in each configuration?


Refer to the following thread for 787 configurations

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411915


I am well informed about the registrations and config, thank you, but my question referred to what is currently being utilized on a particular route. The link you provided is not up to date as to the minute in that regard for the route in question. Other responses have pointed me in the right direction. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:07 pm

In theory, it is supposed to be code 2 on SIN on the 284 and 282. The fact is there have been issues with individual code 2 frames this week that meant they couldn't be used long-haul.which has switched things up a bit and sent code 2s to Code 1 markets and visa versa. It is back to Code 2 tomorrow for example.

axio wrote:
My recent NZ flight (PVG-AKL, 787-9) ...

Like I say, minor things and very much 'first world problems', but there's an element of pride in the national airline that I've usually felt after NZ flights that was absent after this one.


I would say this is (sadly) fairly typical service these days with regard to toilet cleanliness and water service/lack of crew in the cabin in particular. The other stuff probably not so much, just bad luck it coincided with the other stuff.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:27 pm

NZ321 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Andrensn wrote:
Which 787s are in each configuration?


Refer to the following thread for 787 configurations

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411915


I am well informed about the registrations and config, thank you, but my question referred to what is currently being utilized on a particular route. The link you provided is not up to date as to the minute in that regard for the route in question. Other responses have pointed me in the right direction. Thank you for taking the time to respond.


You weren’t the one quoted.

Code 2 does ORD/SIN for NS, the additional frame in that configuration pops up everywhere, mainly PER/NRT plus heaps of short haul.

Code 1 goes everywhere else that’s 787, PVG/NRT/PER/TPE.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:38 pm

NZ321 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Andrensn wrote:
Which 787s are in each configuration?


Refer to the following thread for 787 configurations

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411915


I am well informed about the registrations and config, thank you, but my question referred to what is currently being utilized on a particular route. The link you provided is not up to date as to the minute in that regard for the route in question. Other responses have pointed me in the right direction. Thank you for taking the time to respond.


AKL-HKG is 772 again since start of NS schedules
AKL-IAH is 772/77W since start of NW schedules
AKL-CHC is not a regular widebody route currently
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:13 am

aerorobnz wrote:
In theory, it is supposed to be code 2 on SIN on the 284 and 282. The fact is there have been issues with individual code 2 frames this week that meant they couldn't be used long-haul.which has switched things up a bit and sent code 2s to Code 1 markets and visa versa. It is back to Code 2 tomorrow for example.

axio wrote:
My recent NZ flight (PVG-AKL, 787-9) ...

Like I say, minor things and very much 'first world problems', but there's an element of pride in the national airline that I've usually felt after NZ flights that was absent after this one.


I would say this is (sadly) fairly typical service these days with regard to toilet cleanliness and water service/lack of crew in the cabin in particular. The other stuff probably not so much, just bad luck it coincided with the other stuff.


We’ve flown AKL-TPE vv twice over the past 3 or so months (Dec/Jan and March), both times in PE, and I’ve noticed that even the single toilet in PE isn’t refreshed during the flight. The crew, however, was friendly, and are always willing to help / provide service whenever requested.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:09 am

D-AVZF Completed it's 3rd test flight, And D-AVXN (ZK-NNG) Was seen in full assembly. And D-AVYR (ZK-NNF) Was seen primer with engines
Air New Zealand. Proud to fly.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:35 am

tu2130 wrote:
D-AVZF Completed it's 3rd test flight, And D-AVXN (ZK-NNG) Was seen in full assembly. And D-AVYR (ZK-NNF) Was seen primer with engines



No ZK-NNE?

ZK-OKI did a test flight today, set to return to Boeing, I wonder if the other leased frames will stick around any longer than planned as ‘hot spares’?
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:39 am

ZKOAB wrote:
MCB is still in service and listed here: https://www.myairtrade.com/available/ATR_72
MCC, MCU, MCX, MCY - still in service, MCJ - withdrawn from service and MCO - sold to Air Chathams.


MCJ is still in service.
MCA, MCF and MCW have been withdrawn and sold to Novoair.
MCO has been withdrawn and is on lease to Air Chathams, with a sale pending shortly.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:50 am

DavidByrne wrote:
I may have missed this previously but I don’t recall seeing reference to AKL-CNS going year-round, as reported in the FNQ “Tropic Now”. The article claims that NZ would have been offered a “sweetener” by the State Government to extend the current Mar to Oct season. The additional four months would create 10,000 seats, or about 600 a week - this surely implies two return A320s a week. Interesting.

When MCY was started some years ago there were hints that frequency and season length would expand significantly. Although frequency did increase in the second season and the season extended, there’s been a pretty stable offering in subsequent seasons. For obvious reasons the summer is a harder sell for some of NZ’s “resort” destinations.

For the CNS link see:
https://www.tropicnow.com.au/2018/novem ... airns.html


You would think there would be some demand for those wanting to go to CNS in summer, even if it’s Americans visiting This part of the world for an extended time. Maybe a Friday and Sunday service days with the most connections. CNS was served year round for years until 4-5 years ago, was weekly for years at times a 744 way back when. Surprised when PR dropped if NZ didn’t go back, not that PR were chasing the AKL-CNS market hugely it would seem.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:27 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
tu2130 wrote:
D-AVZF Completed it's 3rd test flight, And D-AVXN (ZK-NNG) Was seen in full assembly. And D-AVYR (ZK-NNF) Was seen primer with engines



No ZK-NNE?


ZK-NNE (msn 8799) D-AVZF had it's customer acceptance flight at XFW on 26 Apr, so delivery is imminent.

ZK-NNF (msn 8839) D-AVYR was photographed at XFW in primer on 18 Apr.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mathiasdu ... 638361261/

ZK-NNG (msn 8908) D-AVXN was photographed at XFW in Air NZ colours on 18 Apr.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/axel_j/46788932185/

Don't know if NNG will be delivered before NNF, but it was painted before NNF. NNG could be leased from ALC.

PA515
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:05 pm

As far as I predict, here's my delivery predictions:
ZK-NNE (May to Late-May)
ZK-NNF (June to July 2019)
ZK-NNG (Late-May to June 2019)
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:17 am

QF 744’VH-OEF did QF145/148 SYD-AKL-SYD today replaced A330.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:46 am

Q/A: Why didn't I put a bracket for ZK-NNE (D-AVZF) I was sorta in a rush to do so
A: At the top.
Q: Was your delivery predictions true?
A: Most possibly.
Q: Have you had an experience on a flight
A: Not yet.
Q: Do you agree with the terms of services on this site?
A: Yes.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:19 am

tu2130 wrote:
Q/A: Why didn't I put a bracket for ZK-NNE (D-AVZF) I was sorta in a rush to do so
A: At the top.
Q: Was your delivery predictions true?
A: Most possibly.
Q: Have you had an experience on a flight
A: Not yet.
Q: Do you agree with the terms of services on this site?
A: Yes.
tu2130 wrote:
D-AVZF Completed it's 3rd test flight, And D-AVXN (ZK-NNG) Was seen in full assembly. And D-AVYR (ZK-NNF) Was seen primer with engines



A German rego doesn’t mean anything to me, though I didn’t notice it anyway. Interesting Q&A with yourself was it? Can’t say I’ve seen that before to the extent you went to.

Thanks for the info however. So that will be all 7 Regional A321s delivered once those next 3 arrive.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:49 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
tu2130 wrote:
Q/A: Why didn't I put a bracket for ZK-NNE (D-AVZF) I was sorta in a rush to do so
A: At the top.
Q: Was your delivery predictions true?
A: Most possibly.
Q: Have you had an experience on a flight
A: Not yet.
Q: Do you agree with the terms of services on this site?
A: Yes.
tu2130 wrote:
D-AVZF Completed it's 3rd test flight, And D-AVXN (ZK-NNG) Was seen in full assembly. And D-AVYR (ZK-NNF) Was seen primer with engines



A German rego doesn’t mean anything to me, though I didn’t notice it anyway. Interesting Q&A with yourself was it? Can’t say I’ve seen that before to the extent you went to.

Thanks for the info however. So that will be all 7 Regional A321s delivered once those next 3 arrive.

As well as A320NEOs for international and then more A321NEO in Domestic configuration.
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PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:57 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-OKI did a test flight today, set to return to Boeing, I wonder if the other leased frames will stick around any longer than planned as ‘hot spares’?


ZK-OKI presently AKL-VCV as NZ6018.

And ZK-OJN (msn 2594) departs tomorrow for Onur Air where it will be TC-ODD. Delivery flight will be CHC-ADL-KUL-AMD-ISL.
https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... nav&page=1

PA515
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:39 am

Please continue discussion in New Zealand Aviation Thread May 2019

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1421465
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