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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:21 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
moa999 wrote:
Would VA be able to get better EDTO for their 777s these days if they wanted to restart JNB?

From memory it quit the route in 2010/11.
And longer ETOPS approval for the type didn't come for later - eg. NZ has operating using ETOPS330 since 2015


You're correct - the changes to Australia's EDTO rules came in 2015 by which time VA had been off JNB for many years.

To answer your question - yes, at least in theory. Back when VA was on JNB, CASA did not permit polar operations (or operations south of 60 degrees south, as Gemuser called it) on twins and only allowed EDTO180 (then called ETOPS and having different rules for tris and quads). Now, there is no EDTO time limit and polar operations with twins are permitted, subject to being granted approval. I think with a fleet of only 5 B777s, this would be a harder ask for VA than for QF.

On QF, they have quite extensive experience with what is now EDTO, having had the A330s certified for many, many years. I'm not sure, but I assume the A330s are certified to EDTO240 or thereabouts given the ops to Japan and Hawaii (and previously on AKL-LAX). The 787s must be at a similar level, too, and QF is no doubt using their ongoing experience with the B787 to build their case for EDTO330 ahead of the type being deployed to JNB and/or SCL.

Boof - I agree, as I said earlier, that QF should have no issue whatsoever achieving EDTO330. However, my read (and I did study ETOPS/EDTO for a postgrad a few years ago) of the situation when CASA changed the rules in 2015 (thanks for linking, by the way) was that CASA did so quite reluctantly following extensive lobbying by QF and, to a lesser extent, VA. I'm not sure I've seen anything to suggest they are any less reluctant to permit Australian carriers to operate twins on EDTO>180 or polar operations. I hope I'm wrong, because continuing any such reluctance flies in the face of the technical capabilities of the B787 and A350.


I am 98% certain that the A330s (and 787s for that matter) are EDTO180.

There are only three routes in Qantas' network that exceed 180: SYD-SCL, SYD-JNB and SYD-DFW. The deviation to remain within 180 on SYD-DFW is fairly minor, so SCL and JNB are the only routes where this is a major issue.

It is pretty much inevitable that Qantas will seek EDTO240 and EDTO330 for the 787 fleet, but I doubt they'd bother for the A330 fleet that don't fly anywhere outside of 180 range.
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JQ321
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:12 am

jimmyah wrote:
Fuling wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Please atleast re read my post on why I think HND will get it, no body has proved weather HND can not can’t take the A380.


HND has very few taxiway capabilities for the A380. Operations are restricted to late evening and early mornings, (Yes QF operate at those times but factor in any delays or diversions into HND and it adds complexities) Then take-off and landing directions are altered for the A380, and then there's also the additional separation that is imposed. And if I recall correctly, only two of the four runways can handle A380 ops.

In my opinion, QF will switch HND and SCL to the B789 (with a 3x weekly A330 to TYO from SYD) and operate as a SYD-SCL-SYD-HND-SYD rotation (3 frames). Then I see JNB going A380 and running a SYD-JNB-SYD-LHR-SYD rotation (4 frames).


NZ are operating into both HND and NRT (though I think this is ending soon), maybe QF can do something similar with 787's into HND and A380 into NRT?

That won't happen. TYO won't be able to take the massive increase a capacity to a A380 and a 787 from a 747. Maybe a A380 to NRT or 787 to HND and A330 to NRT but not 787 to HND and A380 to NRT. Maybe in the future but not now.
Last edited by JQ321 on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
a19901213
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:35 am

380 is way too premium heavy and will have problem filling those seats upstairs if used on NRT.

My 2cents is still on them down gauge HND from 747 to 789, which still has decent business class seat count, and open up a flight to NRT with 332.

JAL and ANA both use 789 and often substitute with 788s when demand is low.

As long as you can fill the premium seats plus the fuel saving you get from flying 789 they can still maintain or probably improve their margin on the route.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:49 am

DavidByrne
Gemuser wrote:
If the "someone from QF" is implying that CASA will not approve EDTO 330, well I can believe it BUT with them already approving a foreign airline flying EDTO 330 into Australia I don't think CASA would withstand the political blitz from QF

Maybe a false memory, but I'm pretty sure I read that the decision on whether EDTO 330 is approved (or indeed, any other EDTO level) rests with the country of registry of the aircraft, not the country into which the aircraft is operated. So this means that LA's MEL-SCL is operated under Chilean EDTO 30 approval, while QF on SYD-SCL/JNB would require Australian approval. Can anyone confirm this?

DeltaB717
That's my understanding, yes.

You are both right & wrong at the same time!
In everyday operations you are correct, it is the responsiability of the country of registration, HOWEVER nothing in the conventions & treaties interfears with a countries right to control its sovergin airspace. What ICAO does is set out the rules that everyone is to abide by, which if you are the country you are flying into accepts the country of registration that the rules are being abided by.
AFAIK there are only two cases where this does not hold true. Case 1): Where the national authrity of one country holds that the national authority of a second country is not enforcing the ICAO standards for its airlines/aircraft. This is what is happening when for example the FAA or EASA "bans" certain countries or airlines from their airspace. Case 2): where a country "reputates" an ICAO rule or part thereof. This is what Australia effectively [I belivev it was not offically done] did with EDTO until 2015.
Each country must approve an airline operating into its airspace, this is true of all airlines operating into all countries. Basically this is confirming that the airline is in compliance with all all ICAO requirments.

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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:51 am

The only EDTO180+ route I can see QF using its A330 fleet on is PER-JNB and while it looks like a long diversion it's only a further 300nm which is roughly around 40 minutes extra flight time (before factoring in winds). SAA have flown their A330-200s to Perth before and while I'm not 100% sure what ETOPS/EDTO they have I'd be surprised if it was more than 180 minutes.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=YPPH-FAOR%0D%0AYPPH-S22%B046%2750%22E079%B001%2703%22-FAOR&R=1200nm%40YPPH%0D%0A1200nm%40YPCC%0D%0A1200nm%40FIMP%0D%0A1200nm%40FAOR&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=180&E=240&EV=410&EU=kts
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:53 am

a19901213 wrote:
380 is way too premium heavy and will have problem filling those seats upstairs if used on NRT.

My 2cents is still on them down gauge HND from 747 to 789, which still has decent business class seat count, and open up a flight to NRT with 332.

JAL and ANA both use 789 and often substitute with 788s when demand is low.

As long as you can fill the premium seats plus the fuel saving you get from flying 789 they can still maintain or probably improve their margin on the route.


that’s word on the street...

QF25/26 SYD-HND-SYD B789
QF21/22 SYD-NRT-SYD A330

EK413
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:01 am

Sichuan to launch weekly CTU-KWE-MEL from late May

https://blueswandaily.com/sichuan-airli ... -may-2019/
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777LRF
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:50 pm

A bit off topic from the current discussion but I was wondering why VA694 from PER-MEL is taking this odd route as it heads north east initially and suddenly turns back down towards MEL.

https://www.flightradar24.com/VOZ694/2044fee2

I've seen this occur on this route a few times before.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:12 pm

777LRF wrote:
A bit off topic from the current discussion but I was wondering why VA694 from PER-MEL is taking this odd route as it heads north east initially and suddenly turns back down towards MEL.

https://www.flightradar24.com/VOZ694/2044fee2

I've seen this occur on this route a few times before.


The aircraft operating VA694 VH-XFH currently has an ETOPS related issue hence the longer flight. It has been flying routes with this sort of diversion for the past 2 days hence why every trans con flight it has operated has been delayed.
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777LRF
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:05 pm

qf789 wrote:
The aircraft operating VA694 VH-XFH currently has an ETOPS related issue hence the longer flight. It has been flying routes with this sort of diversion for the past 2 days hence why every trans con flight it has operated has been delayed.


Ah that explains it. Which airport(s) was it trying to stay in ETOPS range of?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:17 pm

Guess the decision on what to use on SYD-JNB could also depend somewhat on whether they get to launch the PER-JNB route as planned...any word on that, is it still on the table?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:49 pm

777LRF wrote:
qf789 wrote:
The aircraft operating VA694 VH-XFH currently has an ETOPS related issue hence the longer flight. It has been flying routes with this sort of diversion for the past 2 days hence why every trans con flight it has operated has been delayed.


Ah that explains it. Which airport(s) was it trying to stay in ETOPS range of?


Between PER and MEL/SYD it would be ADL/ASP
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x1234
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:52 pm

If Air New Zealand can launch AKL-EZE with ETOPS 330 then QF can too on SYD-SCL and SYD-JNB.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ops-flight
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ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:31 pm

qf789 wrote:
777LRF wrote:
qf789 wrote:
The aircraft operating VA694 VH-XFH currently has an ETOPS related issue hence the longer flight. It has been flying routes with this sort of diversion for the past 2 days hence why every trans con flight it has operated has been delayed.


Ah that explains it. Which airport(s) was it trying to stay in ETOPS range of?


Between PER and MEL/SYD it would be ADL/ASP


This is so interesting and bizarre! What causes a problem with the ETOPS of a single aircraft? I see it operated VA555 SYD-PER and also took the same route adding on over an hour of travel time. Would be an interesting explanation to give passengers.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:40 pm

GRJGeorge wrote:
Guess the decision on what to use on SYD-JNB could also depend somewhat on whether they get to launch the PER-JNB route as planned...any word on that, is it still on the table?


Guess it’s a question as to when will both parties come to an agreement especially QF. From what’s been said previously the PER-JNB service could’ve been up and running as planned operating from T3/4 but QF has been refusing to cough up the balance owed to PAPL.

qf789 wrote:
777LRF wrote:
A bit off topic from the current discussion but I was wondering why VA694 from PER-MEL is taking this odd route as it heads north east initially and suddenly turns back down towards MEL.

https://www.flightradar24.com/VOZ694/2044fee2

I've seen this occur on this route a few times before.


The aircraft operating VA694 VH-XFH currently has an ETOPS related issue hence the longer flight. It has been flying routes with this sort of diversion for the past 2 days hence why every trans con flight it has operated has been delayed.


Take it due to VH-XFH having an ETOPS related issue has been restricted to East-West flying and nil HKG Ops.

EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:02 pm

EK413 wrote:
GRJGeorge wrote:
Guess the decision on what to use on SYD-JNB could also depend somewhat on whether they get to launch the PER-JNB route as planned...any word on that, is it still on the table?


Guess it’s a question as to when will both parties come to an agreement especially QF. From what’s been said previously the PER-JNB service could’ve been up and running as planned operating from T3/4 but QF has been refusing to cough up the balance owed to PAPL.

qf789 wrote:
777LRF wrote:
A bit off topic from the current discussion but I was wondering why VA694 from PER-MEL is taking this odd route as it heads north east initially and suddenly turns back down towards MEL.

https://www.flightradar24.com/VOZ694/2044fee2

I've seen this occur on this route a few times before.


The aircraft operating VA694 VH-XFH currently has an ETOPS related issue hence the longer flight. It has been flying routes with this sort of diversion for the past 2 days hence why every trans con flight it has operated has been delayed.


Take it due to VH-XFH having an ETOPS related issue has been restricted to East-West flying and nil HKG Ops.

EK413


Yes it is restricted to PER-SYD/MEL plus the odd SYD-MEL flight, no NAN flying this weekend either for XFH. It hasn't helped that XFJ has had some tech issues in the past week which has left it on the ground as much as what it has been in the air, though to my understanding that has been fixed now
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:10 pm

ben175 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
777LRF wrote:

Ah that explains it. Which airport(s) was it trying to stay in ETOPS range of?


Between PER and MEL/SYD it would be ADL/ASP


This is so interesting and bizarre! What causes a problem with the ETOPS of a single aircraft? I see it operated VA555 SYD-PER and also took the same route adding on over an hour of travel time. Would be an interesting explanation to give passengers.


It probably has only added 30-35 minutes extra flight time to VA555 taking it to just over 5 hours. The flight that has seen the greatest time added to it was on Monday when VA690 PER-MEL clocked up a flight time of 4hrs and 37 minutes while the return flight being VA697 clocked up a flight time of 4 hours and 15 minutes. Over the past few days the typical PER-MEL flight would take around 3hrs and 10 minutes. Added to that the winds on flights coming into PER over the past 2-3 days have been relatively good, with most flights arriving ahead of schedule by around 30 minutes, the likes of MEL/SYD/HBA/OOL/BNE-PER have all experienced good flying conditions for this time of the year.
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qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:57 am

EK413 wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
380 is way too premium heavy and will have problem filling those seats upstairs if used on NRT.

My 2cents is still on them down gauge HND from 747 to 789, which still has decent business class seat count, and open up a flight to NRT with 332.

JAL and ANA both use 789 and often substitute with 788s when demand is low.

As long as you can fill the premium seats plus the fuel saving you get from flying 789 they can still maintain or probably improve their margin on the route.


that’s word on the street...

QF25/26 SYD-HND-SYD B789
QF21/22 SYD-NRT-SYD A330

EK413

This is what i think will happen too. Would be nice, but we know won't happen, if the NRT departure from SYD was in the evening making for a daytime return back to Australia.
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a19901213
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:50 am

qf2048 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
380 is way too premium heavy and will have problem filling those seats upstairs if used on NRT.

My 2cents is still on them down gauge HND from 747 to 789, which still has decent business class seat count, and open up a flight to NRT with 332.

JAL and ANA both use 789 and often substitute with 788s when demand is low.

As long as you can fill the premium seats plus the fuel saving you get from flying 789 they can still maintain or probably improve their margin on the route.


that’s word on the street...

QF25/26 SYD-HND-SYD B789
QF21/22 SYD-NRT-SYD A330

EK413

This is what i think will happen too. Would be nice, but we know won't happen, if the NRT departure from SYD was in the evening making for a daytime return back to Australia.


If it ever happen it will most likely be an overnight flight back to Sydney from NRT coinciding with other QF flights flying back to Mel and BNE. Also morning departure flight from NRT makes it really hard to squeeze in to suitable time before curfew in Sydney airport as well.

Qantas will want utilise and consolidate their resourse in NRT to maximum potential (lounge, check-in and cooperation with travel agent etc)
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:11 am

a19901213 wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
EK413 wrote:

that’s word on the street...

QF25/26 SYD-HND-SYD B789
QF21/22 SYD-NRT-SYD A330

EK413

This is what i think will happen too. Would be nice, but we know won't happen, if the NRT departure from SYD was in the evening making for a daytime return back to Australia.


If it ever happen it will most likely be an overnight flight back to Sydney from NRT coinciding with other QF flights flying back to Mel and BNE. Also morning departure flight from NRT makes it really hard to squeeze in to suitable time before curfew in Sydney airport as well.

Qantas will want utilise and consolidate their resourse in NRT to maximum potential (lounge, check-in and cooperation with travel agent etc)


Surely it would be as you say similar to the MEL and BNE services which would give SYD-TYO a choice of AM and PM departures, while a NRT service would arrive SYD earlier than HND.

Curious now, what does the bilateral allow With Japan? QF have added MEL/BNE-NRT and the possibility of a SYD-NRT on top of the 1 allowed HND service. Plus JQ fly CNS/OOL-NRT then QF SYD-KIX and JQ CNS-OOL, is that all for now?

QF in the 90’s had a lot of capacity with mainly 747s SYD/CNS/PER- NRT and SYD-CNS-NGO and I think a KIX service aswell.
 
a19901213
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:34 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
This is what i think will happen too. Would be nice, but we know won't happen, if the NRT departure from SYD was in the evening making for a daytime return back to Australia.


If it ever happen it will most likely be an overnight flight back to Sydney from NRT coinciding with other QF flights flying back to Mel and BNE. Also morning departure flight from NRT makes it really hard to squeeze in to suitable time before curfew in Sydney airport as well.

Qantas will want utilise and consolidate their resourse in NRT to maximum potential (lounge, check-in and cooperation with travel agent etc)


Surely it would be as you say similar to the MEL and BNE services which would give SYD-TYO a choice of AM and PM departures, while a NRT service would arrive SYD earlier than HND.

Curious now, what does the bilateral allow With Japan? QF have added MEL/BNE-NRT and the possibility of a SYD-NRT on top of the 1 allowed HND service. Plus JQ fly CNS/OOL-NRT then QF SYD-KIX and JQ CNS-OOL, is that all for now?

QF in the 90’s had a lot of capacity with mainly 747s SYD/CNS/PER- NRT and SYD-CNS-NGO and I think a KIX service aswell.


Australia signed an open sky agreement for flying in to NRT with Japan in 2011 and effective from summer 2013.

As long as QF can obtain the slots they desire there shouldn’t be any issue. (Night time slots in NRT are still relatively easy to get)
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:48 am

a19901213 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
a19901213 wrote:

If it ever happen it will most likely be an overnight flight back to Sydney from NRT coinciding with other QF flights flying back to Mel and BNE. Also morning departure flight from NRT makes it really hard to squeeze in to suitable time before curfew in Sydney airport as well.

Qantas will want utilise and consolidate their resourse in NRT to maximum potential (lounge, check-in and cooperation with travel agent etc)


Surely it would be as you say similar to the MEL and BNE services which would give SYD-TYO a choice of AM and PM departures, while a NRT service would arrive SYD earlier than HND.

Curious now, what does the bilateral allow With Japan? QF have added MEL/BNE-NRT and the possibility of a SYD-NRT on top of the 1 allowed HND service. Plus JQ fly CNS/OOL-NRT then QF SYD-KIX and JQ CNS-OOL, is that all for now?

QF in the 90’s had a lot of capacity with mainly 747s SYD/CNS/PER- NRT and SYD-CNS-NGO and I think a KIX service aswell.


Australia signed an open sky agreement for flying in to NRT with Japan in 2011 and effective from summer 2013.

As long as QF can obtain the slots they desire there shouldn’t be any issue. (Night time slots in NRT are still relatively easy to get)


Ok thanks. I’m guessing this goes for Japanese carriers into Australia aswell? Good to see them adding capacity through new services.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:55 am

"Hong Kong’s Air Accident Investigation Authority is probing a "serious" incident on a February flight from Perth to Hong Kong when the captain became incapacitated. Cathay Pacific flight CX170 had taken off from Perth International Airport on February 21 and was flying over the South China Sea when the incident occurred."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/passe ... 51h17.html
 
Pcoder
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:51 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
"Hong Kong’s Air Accident Investigation Authority is probing a "serious" incident on a February flight from Perth to Hong Kong when the captain became incapacitated. Cathay Pacific flight CX170 had taken off from Perth International Airport on February 21 and was flying over the South China Sea when the incident occurred."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/passe ... 51h17.html


To me it seems like the crew handled it well. Can't see too many things that were not done well.
 
JQ321
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:11 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
"Hong Kong’s Air Accident Investigation Authority is probing a "serious" incident on a February flight from Perth to Hong Kong when the captain became incapacitated. Cathay Pacific flight CX170 had taken off from Perth International Airport on February 21 and was flying over the South China Sea when the incident occurred."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/passe ... 51h17.html

Another reason to move to Computer controlled planes. They can't be incapacitated.
 
jupiter2
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:25 am

JQ321 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
"Hong Kong’s Air Accident Investigation Authority is probing a "serious" incident on a February flight from Perth to Hong Kong when the captain became incapacitated. Cathay Pacific flight CX170 had taken off from Perth International Airport on February 21 and was flying over the South China Sea when the incident occurred."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/passe ... 51h17.html

Another reason to move to Computer controlled planes. They can't be incapacitated.


They can be hacked though :scratchchin:
 
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B742
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:37 am

Does anyone know of anywhere where I can find SYD and BNE backdated movements? In the UK we have www.lhr-lgw.co.uk
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:38 am

JQ321 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
"Hong Kong’s Air Accident Investigation Authority is probing a "serious" incident on a February flight from Perth to Hong Kong when the captain became incapacitated. Cathay Pacific flight CX170 had taken off from Perth International Airport on February 21 and was flying over the South China Sea when the incident occurred."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/passe ... 51h17.html

Another reason to move to Computer controlled planes. They can't be incapacitated.

You’ve never had the term “fatal error” pop up on your screen have you...

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eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:21 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
If the "someone from QF" is implying that CASA will not approve EDTO 330, well I can believe it BUT with them already approving a foreign airline flying EDTO 330 into Australia I don't think CASA would withstand the political blitz from QF

Maybe a false memory, but I'm pretty sure I read that the decision on whether EDTO 330 is approved (or indeed, any other EDTO level) rests with the country of registry of the aircraft, not the country into which the aircraft is operated. So this means that LA's MEL-SCL is operated under Chilean EDTO 30 approval, while QF on SYD-SCL/JNB would require Australian approval. Can anyone confirm this?


That's my understanding, yes.

My understanding is that you not only needs approval from your own country of registry (so you can gain the EDTO status for your entire fleet), but you also needs approval from the country that you fly into in order for EDTO routing to be legal. I might be wrong though.

Michael
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:55 am

eamondzhang wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Maybe a false memory, but I'm pretty sure I read that the decision on whether EDTO 330 is approved (or indeed, any other EDTO level) rests with the country of registry of the aircraft, not the country into which the aircraft is operated. So this means that LA's MEL-SCL is operated under Chilean EDTO 30 approval, while QF on SYD-SCL/JNB would require Australian approval. Can anyone confirm this?


That's my understanding, yes.

My understanding is that you not only needs approval from your own country of registry (so you can gain the EDTO status for your entire fleet), but you also needs approval from the country that you fly into in order for EDTO routing to be legal. I might be wrong though.

Michael


Correct! The country you fly into is sseking to confirm that the airline is conforming to the ICAO rules. This used to be done by certification of such by the aviation authority of the airlines home country, today, I don't know.

Gemuser
 
JQ321
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:40 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:17 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
"Hong Kong’s Air Accident Investigation Authority is probing a "serious" incident on a February flight from Perth to Hong Kong when the captain became incapacitated. Cathay Pacific flight CX170 had taken off from Perth International Airport on February 21 and was flying over the South China Sea when the incident occurred."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/passe ... 51h17.html

Another reason to move to Computer controlled planes. They can't be incapacitated.

You’ve never had the term “fatal error” pop up on your screen have you...

V/F

Computers never make a mistake they do what they're told or they were made incorrectly. It was always a human failure in coding or manufacturing which caused this not a computer.
 
a19901213
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:21 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Surely it would be as you say similar to the MEL and BNE services which would give SYD-TYO a choice of AM and PM departures, while a NRT service would arrive SYD earlier than HND.

Curious now, what does the bilateral allow With Japan? QF have added MEL/BNE-NRT and the possibility of a SYD-NRT on top of the 1 allowed HND service. Plus JQ fly CNS/OOL-NRT then QF SYD-KIX and JQ CNS-OOL, is that all for now?

QF in the 90’s had a lot of capacity with mainly 747s SYD/CNS/PER- NRT and SYD-CNS-NGO and I think a KIX service aswell.


Australia signed an open sky agreement for flying in to NRT with Japan in 2011 and effective from summer 2013.

As long as QF can obtain the slots they desire there shouldn’t be any issue. (Night time slots in NRT are still relatively easy to get)


Ok thanks. I’m guessing this goes for Japanese carriers into Australia aswell? Good to see them adding capacity through new services.


I believe so but we probably won’t be seeing both Japanese carriers adding new service apart from the new Perth service.

I think JL was thinking coming back to BNE a while ago but not sure if this is still on their mind.

Also Given that most of the expanded slots in HND in 2020 have been allocated to US routes JL probably won’t be able to shift their current service to HND anytime soon.
 
T54A
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:03 pm

vhqpa wrote:
The only EDTO180+ route I can see QF using its A330 fleet on is PER-JNB and while it looks like a long diversion it's only a further 300nm which is roughly around 40 minutes extra flight time (before factoring in winds). SAA have flown their A330-200s to Perth before and while I'm not 100% sure what ETOPS/EDTO they have I'd be surprised if it was more than 180 minutes.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=YPPH-FAOR%0D%0AYPPH-S22%B046%2750%22E079%B001%2703%22-FAOR&R=1200nm%40YPPH%0D%0A1200nm%40YPCC%0D%0A1200nm%40FIMP%0D%0A1200nm%40FAOR&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=180&E=240&EV=410&EU=kts



Well then prepared to be surprised. SAA has beyond 180min approval for all the A330’s.
T6, Allouette 3, Oryx, King Air, B1900, B727, B744, A319, A342/3/6 A332/3
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1645
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:03 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
"Hong Kong’s Air Accident Investigation Authority is probing a "serious" incident on a February flight from Perth to Hong Kong when the captain became incapacitated. Cathay Pacific flight CX170 had taken off from Perth International Airport on February 21 and was flying over the South China Sea when the incident occurred."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/passe ... 51h17.html

Another reason to move to Computer controlled planes. They can't be incapacitated.

You’ve never had the term “fatal error” pop up on your screen have you...

V/F


404 not found....
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:13 pm

qf2220 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
Another reason to move to Computer controlled planes. They can't be incapacitated.

You’ve never had the term “fatal error” pop up on your screen have you...

V/F


404 not found....


Just turn it off and then on again.......usually works out ok
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1223
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:22 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
You’ve never had the term “fatal error” pop up on your screen have you...

V/F


404 not found....


Just turn it off and then on again.......usually works out ok

If no pilot onboard try restarting the computer especially FMC.....

Michael
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:25 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

404 not found....


Just turn it off and then on again.......usually works out ok

If no pilot onboard try restarting the computer especially FMC.....

Michael


Um yer, exactly.
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1662
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:07 am

Gemuser wrote:
DavidByrne
Gemuser wrote:
If the "someone from QF" is implying that CASA will not approve EDTO 330, well I can believe it BUT with them already approving a foreign airline flying EDTO 330 into Australia I don't think CASA would withstand the political blitz from QF

Maybe a false memory, but I'm pretty sure I read that the decision on whether EDTO 330 is approved (or indeed, any other EDTO level) rests with the country of registry of the aircraft, not the country into which the aircraft is operated. So this means that LA's MEL-SCL is operated under Chilean EDTO 30 approval, while QF on SYD-SCL/JNB would require Australian approval. Can anyone confirm this?

DeltaB717
That's my understanding, yes.

You are both right & wrong at the same time!
In everyday operations you are correct, it is the responsiability of the country of registration, HOWEVER nothing in the conventions & treaties interfears with a countries right to control its sovergin airspace. What ICAO does is set out the rules that everyone is to abide by, which if you are the country you are flying into accepts the country of registration that the rules are being abided by.
AFAIK there are only two cases where this does not hold true. Case 1): Where the national authrity of one country holds that the national authority of a second country is not enforcing the ICAO standards for its airlines/aircraft. This is what is happening when for example the FAA or EASA "bans" certain countries or airlines from their airspace. Case 2): where a country "reputates" an ICAO rule or part thereof. This is what Australia effectively [I belivev it was not offically done] did with EDTO until 2015.
Each country must approve an airline operating into its airspace, this is true of all airlines operating into all countries. Basically this is confirming that the airline is in compliance with all all ICAO requirments.

Gemuser


Thanks for clarifying this, I appreciate it! I've worked in 'international air transport' regulation before and also spent a lot of time studying EDTO ops, just hadn't joined the dots about receiving country certification. I assume the receiving country certification process is less involved than the home country process, i.e. Australia would rely to some degree on the authorities in the home countries of the likes of LA, SA, UA, etc. rather than requiring the airline in question to go through the same full process that we would require for QF or VA?

ben175 wrote:
What causes a problem with the ETOPS of a single aircraft?


Could be anything - an APU fault, a starter fault, a comms fault, a piece of survival equipment that's been removed for repair... it could be any one (or more) of a number of things.
 
ben175
Posts: 720
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:25 am

VH-ZNC is operating today’s QF589 BNE-PER. Is this scheduled or just a temporary equipment swap?
 
Boof
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:33 am

ben175 wrote:
VH-ZNC is operating today’s QF589 BNE-PER. Is this scheduled or just a temporary equipment swap?

I read somewhere (maybe here on earlier post/thread) it is for crew training and will happen a few times.
Bring back Virgin Blue!
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1662
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:03 am

ben175 wrote:
VH-ZNC is operating today’s QF589 BNE-PER. Is this scheduled or just a temporary equipment swap?


It's every Friday that I've looked at between now (actually end of March) and the end of October, i.e. the full northern summer season.
 
Captdasbomb
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:52 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
VH-ZNC is operating today’s QF589 BNE-PER. Is this scheduled or just a temporary equipment swap?


It's every Friday that I've looked at between now (actually end of March) and the end of October, i.e. the full northern summer season.


Will be till October when the next 3 birds arrive. Will be also used for re-training of the ex-747 pilots.
 
Gangurru
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:51 am

Cathay Pacific is reportedly ending it’s Cairns flights.

https://www.tropicnow.com.au/2019/april ... ights.html
 
Obzerva
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:35 am

Gangurru wrote:
Cathay Pacific is reportedly ending it’s Cairns flights.

https://www.tropicnow.com.au/2019/april ... ights.html


Could CX be planning on swapping it with UO?
 
Pcoder
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:50 am

With the a321neo coming to KA, it would probably be a better option.

They might be cancelling the route due to the enhanced relationship with QF. The route itself could have already been marginal and the probably preferred to have a direct flight to Brisbane.
 
F100Flyer
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:01 am

QR908 DOH-SYD is currently diverting to Perth. Seems to be at a relatively low altitude of 29,000ft too.
 
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qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 8595
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:04 am

VA operating a PER-AVV charter this afternoon
Forum Moderator
 
Gangurru
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:06 am

Cairns links to Cathay go back to the very first flight in 1946 which was Hong Kong-Sydney with the DC3 Betsy.

This means that Cairns was the first Australian port to ever welcome a CX flight.

Besty later ended up in Cairns, as part of the Bush Pilots Airways/ Air Queensland fleet. She was restored and flown back to Hong Kong. The story of her return to Hong Kong from Cairns on the reverse itinerary of the inagural flight is told on the link below.

http://www.bushies.net/pdf/Betsy's%20last%20ride.pdf
 
Qantas16
Posts: 681
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:21 am

Gangurru wrote:
Cathay Pacific is reportedly ending it’s Cairns flights.

https://www.tropicnow.com.au/2019/april ... ights.html


This is really sad news for CNS and goes on top of the recent announcement that CZ was also "suspending" flights too:

https://www.newsport.com.au/2019/march/ ... gion/?L=44
 
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qf789
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Topic Author
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2019

Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:25 am

F100Flyer wrote:
QR908 DOH-SYD is currently diverting to Perth. Seems to be at a relatively low altitude of 29,000ft too.


Diverting due to a tech issue, aircraft being towed after arrival
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