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Veigar
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:09 pm

texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


Was on a 30 year old MD-82 with AA two days ago. Was very comfy, AA was super friendly, and the food was quite good too. Dunno what you're getting at.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:13 pm

I think the 772 will be too much for JFK-CDG. I think they will use poor loads as an excuse to end the route. If they were serious about keeping it they would use a 752 or at the most a 788. No feed on either end of that route. AA is a joke at JFK.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:13 pm

Veigar wrote:
texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


Was on a 30 year old MD-82 with AA two days ago. Was very comfy, AA was super friendly, and the food wad quite good too. Dunno what you're getting at.

I'm sure that wasn't TATL. I actually agree with him. TATL on AA is for masochists. I have absolutely nothing against AA, but have had the "pleasure" of flying MIA-MXP on them 6 times last year, 4 in J. 4 levels below the rest...at least. Tired, arrogant FAs... Just stating my opinion, take it for what it is.
Last edited by MalevTU134 on Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:15 pm

texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


I sure Have enjoyed some Daytime Flights on some of those 767's : )

I agree its silly to have dated Interiors on major airlines. Now there are many major airlines that fly around with dated interiors, its not a US3 issue. Ive been on some dated EU Asian carriers planes and OMG Gasp yes even ME3 have some dated planes flying. Looking at the world/issues through the lens of a straw will show you exactly what you are looking for.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:17 pm

symbolically it's hard to imagine AA @ JFK without 767s. Wasn't long ago there were lines of 767s at T8. You only have to go back 5-6 years to see 762s and 763s dominating.

Product-wise they needed help though. I know AA's plans to retire them sooner rather than later, but there was enough years left on them to give them a proper upgrade IMO.
 
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Veigar
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:19 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


Was on a 30 year old MD-82 with AA two days ago. Was very comfy, AA was super friendly, and the food wad quite good too. Dunno what you're getting at.

I'm sure that wasn't TATL. I actually agree with him. TATL on AA is for masochists. I have absolutely nothing against AA, but have had the "pleasure" of flying MIA-MXP on them 6 times last year, 4 in J. 4 levels below the rest...at least. Tired, arrogant FAs... Just stating my opinion, take it for what it is.


Would you willingly fly N501AA (the oldest AA aircraft), on the longest MD route? (you can also tell me what that is, as my flight was a 1 hour and 20 minute hop)

Also, admittedly I should have specified, I was replying to this bit of his post: "While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.
"
Last edited by Veigar on Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:23 pm

Veigar wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Veigar wrote:

Was on a 30 year old MD-82 with AA two days ago. Was very comfy, AA was super friendly, and the food wad quite good too. Dunno what you're getting at.

I'm sure that wasn't TATL. I actually agree with him. TATL on AA is for masochists. I have absolutely nothing against AA, but have had the "pleasure" of flying MIA-MXP on them 6 times last year, 4 in J. 4 levels below the rest...at least. Tired, arrogant FAs... Just stating my opinion, take it for what it is.


Would you willingly fly N501AA (the oldest AA aircraft), on the longest MD route? (you can also tell me what that is, as my flight was a 1 hour and 20 minute hop)

Also, admittedly I should have specified, I was replying to this bit of his post: "While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.
"

I believe AA's longest route still served on a MD80 is DFW-IAD (I think it has been taken off DFW-BWI).
 
texdravid
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:24 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


Was on a 30 year old MD-82 with AA two days ago. Was very comfy, AA was super friendly, and the food wad quite good too. Dunno what you're getting at.

I'm sure that wasn't TATL. I actually agree with him. TATL on AA is for masochists. I have absolutely nothing against AA, but have had the "pleasure" of flying MIA-MXP on them 6 times last year, 4 in J. 4 levels below the rest...at least. Tired, arrogant FAs... Just stating my opinion, take it for what it is.


Exactly, while AA is tolerable on a routine SNA-DFW route for 1.5 hours, TATL is where their inferior hard product and obnoxious FA’s really stand out. I would rather have a rookie puddle jumping FA on an Ejet than a senior obese grump mama who doesn’t care at all and is protected by outdated union rules.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:26 pm

Ishrion wrote:
texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


Even UA's 767s are improving drastically. They're investing in a new dense Polaris Business Class in a 1-1-1 configuration and added Premium Economy in a 2-2-2 config.



I agree AA needs to do a better job and they were cheap on the Updates previously so they aged poorly. AA gets a failing grade but many others do also. Doesn't make it right.....
 
MalevTU134
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:27 pm

texdravid wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Veigar wrote:

Was on a 30 year old MD-82 with AA two days ago. Was very comfy, AA was super friendly, and the food wad quite good too. Dunno what you're getting at.

I'm sure that wasn't TATL. I actually agree with him. TATL on AA is for masochists. I have absolutely nothing against AA, but have had the "pleasure" of flying MIA-MXP on them 6 times last year, 4 in J. 4 levels below the rest...at least. Tired, arrogant FAs... Just stating my opinion, take it for what it is.


Exactly, while AA is tolerable on a routine SNA-DFW route for 1.5 hours, TATL is where their inferior hard product and obnoxious FA’s really stand out. I would rather have a rookie puddle jumping FA on an Ejet than a senior obese grump mama who doesn’t care at all and is protected by outdated union rules.

Agree totally. In the same period of time as those 6 TATL flights, I have flown several shorter sectors on AA, such as MIA-MCO, MIA-BOG, MIA-MAR, MIA-CCS et cetera, all with splendid crew and nice planes.
 
DENTK
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:32 pm

texdravid wrote:
No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

Delta Air Lines is the most profitable airline in the world. Nice try.
 
DLStewie
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:44 pm

texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


For disclosure: I work for another airline (not as a Flight Attendant) and recently flew four domestic legs (two short hauls, two long hauls) on AA with a very open mind and my comments are not meant to compare with other airlines. I'm just speaking about my experience on AA in the past few weeks. I have never seen crews that were more consistently lazy, unfriendly, indifferent, and unavailable. This has nothing to do with age or experience. Some of the best, most hospitable, and professional ones are those who've been flying 30, 40 or even 50 years! Only one beverage service on two four hour flights. No walk throughs, no water offered, etc. No refill solicitations even in Main Cabin Extra. And the only freebie was AA-branded pretzels, not even Biscoff. My crews seemed to make it their aim to have as little contact or engagement with customers as possible. I am amazed AA scores as well as they do in various surveys (even though they are usually middle of the pack). Lack of AVOD is forgivable (but a mistake in my opinion because you couldn't charge your devices on the flights I were on). No pillows or blankets which I would expect in MCE. The only cool part was being able to pre-order your buy on board food, but on both occasions the FA had no idea (or didn't see to care) that I reserved food and am certain that if I had not been up front in MCE he/she wouldn't have tracked it. I don't understand how these crews could seem to not enjoy their jobs as overtly as they appear when they are so lucky to have them. AA needs to seriously indoctrinate their crews on basic, fundamental customer service skills. Again, this is not an indictment on the entire US airline industry; just a personal account across four legs I was recently on.
 
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Veigar
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:45 pm

texdravid wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Veigar wrote:

Was on a 30 year old MD-82 with AA two days ago. Was very comfy, AA was super friendly, and the food wad quite good too. Dunno what you're getting at.

I'm sure that wasn't TATL. I actually agree with him. TATL on AA is for masochists. I have absolutely nothing against AA, but have had the "pleasure" of flying MIA-MXP on them 6 times last year, 4 in J. 4 levels below the rest...at least. Tired, arrogant FAs... Just stating my opinion, take it for what it is.


Exactly, while AA is tolerable on a routine SNA-DFW route for 1.5 hours, TATL is where their inferior hard product and obnoxious FA’s really stand out. I would rather have a rookie puddle jumping FA on an Ejet than a senior obese grump mama who doesn’t care at all and is protected by outdated union rules.



Well my point in my post was that the other guy seemed to instantly blame "old relics". The experience I had on N501AA was actually really really good. FA's were very genuine and happy, and the seats were also very comfortable, despite it being a 30 year old plane. When was its last retrofit?
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:46 pm

DENTK wrote:
texdravid wrote:
No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

Delta Air Lines is the most profitable airline in the world. Nice try.

But that alone doesn't debunk anything the poster said.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
Jo8338
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:52 pm

Veigar wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Veigar wrote:

Was on a 30 year old MD-82 with AA two days ago. Was very comfy, AA was super friendly, and the food wad quite good too. Dunno what you're getting at.

I'm sure that wasn't TATL. I actually agree with him. TATL on AA is for masochists. I have absolutely nothing against AA, but have had the "pleasure" of flying MIA-MXP on them 6 times last year, 4 in J. 4 levels below the rest...at least. Tired, arrogant FAs... Just stating my opinion, take it for what it is.


Would you willingly fly N501AA (the oldest AA aircraft), on the longest MD route? (you can also tell me what that is, as my flight was a 1 hour and 20 minute hop)

Also, admittedly I should have specified, I was replying to this bit of his post: "While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.
"


Absolutely, wish I could get 501 on a 4 hour leg one last time. I would even do it in the last 3 rows.
 
NYCAAer
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:02 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I think the 772 will be too much for JFK-CDG. I think they will use poor loads as an excuse to end the route. If they were serious about keeping it they would use a 752 or at the most a 788. No feed on either end of that route. AA is a joke at JFK.


The second most profitable European market out of JFK, after LHR. AA is flying O&D between the 2 markets. A 752 still wouldn’t be able to handle the cargo and would lose more passengers to AF/DL who offer a better product on their 777/380/330. The 772 makes the product competitive.
 
9w748capt
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:07 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


What a stupid, misinformed post. Both United and Delta have invested a lot more in their 767-300ER's over the years to improve their dispatch rate and renovated the cabins from nose to tail. American Airlines chose to renovate just the forward, premium cabin, and leave the back of the bus as is, save for new fabric on the seats.

European and Asian legacy airlines have better service, yes, but to a point.


Haha, I'm surprised tex didn't incorporate a rant against Air India or north Indians in his post.

And FWIW AA'a 763 Y class is far more comfortable than 10-abreast in the 777. I can live without a TV for 8 hours.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:10 am

texdravid wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Veigar wrote:

Was on a 30 year old MD-82 with AA two days ago. Was very comfy, AA was super friendly, and the food wad quite good too. Dunno what you're getting at.

I'm sure that wasn't TATL. I actually agree with him. TATL on AA is for masochists. I have absolutely nothing against AA, but have had the "pleasure" of flying MIA-MXP on them 6 times last year, 4 in J. 4 levels below the rest...at least. Tired, arrogant FAs... Just stating my opinion, take it for what it is.


Exactly, while AA is tolerable on a routine SNA-DFW route for 1.5 hours, TATL is where their inferior hard product and obnoxious FA’s really stand out. I would rather have a rookie puddle jumping FA on an Ejet than a senior obese grump mama who doesn’t care at all and is protected by outdated union rules.


Your making it sound like you believe all senior FA's are grumpy and Obese and not caring for anything but themselves with there own obnoxious needs. :scratchchin: I'ts (post) sounding like Young Is good Old Is bad?

We know that that is impossible. All senior FA's aren't grumpy,obese,obnoxious, Selfish and Young FA's pleasant. These are gross over exaggerated stereotypes.

Hey I've wanted to and have brought out my torches and pitchforks on poor airline service many times. With age and time I've learned that good service starts with Me. I have more enjoyable interactions with other's (FA's,Ect..) if I'm friendly and not close-minded, demanding and prejudging others. Doesn't mean all my flights turn out good but I tend to have more and better interactions. I'ts funny but I find the things I hate in others the most is usually things I hate about myself. The Internet is a big echo chamber and if i'm looking for negativity I can find plenty of it to justify my position.

I feel FA and GA ect need to be defended here because Yes there are many many poor interactions caused by them. But it's a two way street and needs to start with our us first. I yearn for the days of better social decorum and niceties in the public setting. Were living in the Age of information and the days of personal interactions being a distraction not a warm personal exchange. It will be a while till the tides change.
 
9w748capt
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:10 am

DL747400 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


I agree, but unfortunately this is not going to change anytime soon.

I'll take a less senior crew any day. They tend to be more energetic and have better attitudes. They generally provide better overall service and keep drinks refilled without having to ask. Yes, there are exceptions and I have encountered superb service from specific senior crew members and I always tell them that it is appreciated.


It's hit or miss. I've had bad crews on AA but also some absolutely stellar ones. I much prefer American-style service when it's good rather than robotic CX.
 
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DL747400
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:32 am

9w748capt wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


I agree, but unfortunately this is not going to change anytime soon.

I'll take a less senior crew any day. They tend to be more energetic and have better attitudes. They generally provide better overall service and keep drinks refilled without having to ask. Yes, there are exceptions and I have encountered superb service from specific senior crew members and I always tell them that it is appreciated.


It's hit or miss. I've had bad crews on AA but also some absolutely stellar ones. I much prefer American-style service when it's good rather than robotic CX.


Oh yes! Absolutely agree. And I also should have said that my previous comments apply to ALL carriers and not just AA. I've had indifferent senior crews on DL, UA, AA, AS, BA, AF, LH, AZ, IB, though interestingly now that I think about it, not on KLM.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
texdravid
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:33 am

9w748capt wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


What a stupid, misinformed post. Both United and Delta have invested a lot more in their 767-300ER's over the years to improve their dispatch rate and renovated the cabins from nose to tail. American Airlines chose to renovate just the forward, premium cabin, and leave the back of the bus as is, save for new fabric on the seats.

European and Asian legacy airlines have better service, yes, but to a point.


Haha, I'm surprised tex didn't incorporate a rant against Air India or north Indians in his post.

And FWIW AA'a 763 Y class is far more comfortable than 10-abreast in the 777. I can live without a TV for 8 hours.


Ha ha that would too much, even for me. I’ll save that for the next time some Indian poster tells me it’s perfectly fine that I fly DFW-EWR-DEL-MAA and I have to love it because DEL is “seamless” for connections. Dravida forever man, ha ha.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
N649DL
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:13 am

I'm all for this as JFK is a hyper-competitive market and the new interiors on the 777 are gorgeous. Keep the 763s on PHL TATL markets like PRG and out of MIA to LatAm where they can take a beating before retirement.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:00 am

Fewer flights, bigger planes. Fewer flights to come.

AA at JFK...Something special in the air.

And you are old if you remember that slogan and jingle!
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:18 am

acavpics wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
A380MSN004 wrote:
Does AA removing of the fleet those 763ERs?


Yes, they are being phased out gradually, being positioned in the MIA and PHL hubs only. Quite a few of them will be operating AA's PHL's TATL schedule this summer, including Bologna, Dubrovnik, Budapest, Prague, and Zurich.


When are PHL's TATL services going to see newer, refurbished planes like 777s and 787s? They've been stuck with the old non-refurbished 767s and A330s for quite a while now. Same applies to CLT


Winter schedule has plans for B788s out of PHL. I presume JFK will be the last to see the B788 or B789.
 
AndrewJM70
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:46 am

texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


Absolutely spot on! The sad thing is that they were flying around these clapped out planes with clapped out FAs 25 years ago!
 
EChid
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:54 am

Honestly, given the content and day I just assumed this was April Fools.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
Cointrin330
Topic Author
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:20 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
acavpics wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

Yes, they are being phased out gradually, being positioned in the MIA and PHL hubs only. Quite a few of them will be operating AA's PHL's TATL schedule this summer, including Bologna, Dubrovnik, Budapest, Prague, and Zurich.


When are PHL's TATL services going to see newer, refurbished planes like 777s and 787s? They've been stuck with the old non-refurbished 767s and A330s for quite a while now. Same applies to CLT


Winter schedule has plans for B788s out of PHL. I presume JFK will be the last to see the B788 or B789.


Most like, re JFK. The use of 777s on JFK international long haul is partly due to the fact the plans have a larger proportion of premium seats (Biz and P/E) and AA can still fill these cabins. The 787's have smaller business class cabins and the jets are most likely needed elsewhere in the system. If fuel prices spike though, I could see them adding the 787 on some JFK routes.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:25 am

NYCAAer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I think the 772 will be too much for JFK-CDG. I think they will use poor loads as an excuse to end the route. If they were serious about keeping it they would use a 752 or at the most a 788. No feed on either end of that route. AA is a joke at JFK.


The second most profitable European market out of JFK, after LHR. AA is flying O&D between the 2 markets. A 752 still wouldn’t be able to handle the cargo and would lose more passengers to AF/DL who offer a better product on their 777/380/330. The 772 makes the product competitive.


Agreed. CDG is the #2 market in Europe after LHR and American can compete. CDG is AA's largest station after LHR in Europe and as others have pointed out, AA moves a lot of cargo on this route, so the 777 is well suited. The 757-200 has been used in the past when AA had a second nonstop in addition to AA 44/45, it was AA 120/121 but the 757 is being taken off TATL routes as those too are being retried at AA, though slowly.
 
Cointrin330
Topic Author
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:28 am

N649DL wrote:
I'm all for this as JFK is a hyper-competitive market and the new interiors on the 777 are gorgeous. Keep the 763s on PHL TATL markets like PRG and out of MIA to LatAm where they can take a beating before retirement.


The 777 interiors were nicely redone, are crisp and consistently look clean. American has a lot less competition (almost none actually) ex PHL to Europe, with the exception of LH, and so it does not have to offer the most competitive product there to keep up. The 787s coming to PHL are about the 767s getting too long in the tooth but if AA could keep them longer they would. The cabin refit on the 767's (except for the 9 new ones delivered from 2002-2003) were all done in 2005-2006 giving the business class cabin only the curved ceiling 777 architecture. Economy Class stayed the same, with the boxy overheads. No PTVs and the seats were covered up in leather. That's it.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:37 am

AA realizes they have an inferior International product with the 763. It's why the remainder have ended up in PHL (no to little competition) and MIA. The 788s will replace the 763s at PHL later this year and next year. IIRC AA will be down to just 5 763 frames at the end of next year with those exiting in 2021. I assume the final frames will end up at MIA doing domestic turns along with some Caribbean and certain lower yield South American cities. Airlines just can't replace older a/c overnight like a car. By the end of 2020 AA will be free of most older including MD80s, 763s, LUS 757s.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:57 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
acavpics wrote:

When are PHL's TATL services going to see newer, refurbished planes like 777s and 787s? They've been stuck with the old non-refurbished 767s and A330s for quite a while now. Same applies to CLT


Winter schedule has plans for B788s out of PHL. I presume JFK will be the last to see the B788 or B789.


Most like, re JFK. The use of 777s on JFK international long haul is partly due to the fact the plans have a larger proportion of premium seats (Biz and P/E) and AA can still fill these cabins. The 787's have smaller business class cabins and the jets are most likely needed elsewhere in the system. If fuel prices spike though, I could see them adding the 787 on some JFK routes.

If fuel prices spike, they will be down to 70 flights out of JFK. They are not that far away.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:10 pm

Another 763 flew into retirement last night JFK-ROS.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5431
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:16 pm

tphuang wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

Winter schedule has plans for B788s out of PHL. I presume JFK will be the last to see the B788 or B789.


Most like, re JFK. The use of 777s on JFK international long haul is partly due to the fact the plans have a larger proportion of premium seats (Biz and P/E) and AA can still fill these cabins. The 787's have smaller business class cabins and the jets are most likely needed elsewhere in the system. If fuel prices spike though, I could see them adding the 787 on some JFK routes.

If fuel prices spike, they will be down to 70 flights out of JFK. They are not that far away.



They are closing in on 80 now.

You need to go lower with your estimate.

50-60 is where I think they go during a downturn
 
mcg
Posts: 969
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:35 pm

ORDJOE wrote:
I actually had an appreciation for those 767s 5 across in coach I will take that with the 80s cabin over the 10 across 777 where the seats do not actually recline


exactly. well put. For a coach passenger the 767 is the best ever. Way better than those post-1988 torture chambers.
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:01 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


What a stupid, misinformed post. Both United and Delta have invested a lot more in their 767-300ER's over the years to improve their dispatch rate and renovated the cabins from nose to tail. American Airlines chose to renovate just the forward, premium cabin, and leave the back of the bus as is, save for new fabric on the seats.

European and Asian legacy airlines have better service, yes, but to a point.



Most of the flying public can’t tell the age of the plane if it has an upgraded cabin like UA AND DL nor do they care. That last comment was foolish. Can’t see how a maintained 767 is a disgrace.
 
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vhtje
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:09 pm

I still maintain that one if my best, and most memorable, TATL crossings was in Y on an AA 763 from DUS to ORD. And it was in Y. Being oneworld Emerald the check-in put me in the front window seat of Y and blocked the seat next to me. I remember the crew member was superb - friendly, helpful and my wine glass was constantly refilled. I will miss the 767.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
NYCAAer
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:31 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
acavpics wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

Yes, they are being phased out gradually, being positioned in the MIA and PHL hubs only. Quite a few of them will be operating AA's PHL's TATL schedule this summer, including Bologna, Dubrovnik, Budapest, Prague, and Zurich.


When are PHL's TATL services going to see newer, refurbished planes like 777s and 787s? They've been stuck with the old non-refurbished 767s and A330s for quite a while now. Same applies to CLT


Winter schedule has plans for B788s out of PHL. I presume JFK will be the last to see the B788 or B789.


Correct. There are no plans to introduce the 787 to JFK anytime soon, it will be several years, when the oldest 772s are retired and replaced by 789s.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2332
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:32 pm

I don't get all the hate for the 767 on this thread. I mean, I know AA's examples were (are) very long in the tooth, and all; but coming from a website that has an absolute fascination with the 757... A sexual fetish I'd call it! I still find a tattered old 767 still waaaay more comfortable than the best 757 out there, with its inevitably narrow[er] cabin and noisy engines...
Not long ago AA was still flying tatty old 757s across the pond -occasionally even DOMESTIC-configured birds (summer months I recall) to places like Manchester (UK), yet nobody was saying a thing... Actually I remember one of the usual threads where people were saying how cool it was that even a domestic 757 would occasionally fly international, etc etc.. you know, the usual A.net's 757 crap..
Is it just me who finds this odd?
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2332
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:36 pm

texdravid wrote:
International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


No, they are not. I have flown AA across the pond in Y exactly twice (so 4 long-hauls + 5 domestic sectors) in the last 18 months, and I have encountered exceedingly nice and courteous F/As on all of my flights. Some were more senior, and some were younger, but all were professional, polite and friendly.
Service was really on a par with most European carriers I more regularly fly I'd say, and certainly overall not at all bad.
Last edited by oldannyboy on Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
NYCAAer
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:37 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

Most like, re JFK. The use of 777s on JFK international long haul is partly due to the fact the plans have a larger proportion of premium seats (Biz and P/E) and AA can still fill these cabins. The 787's have smaller business class cabins and the jets are most likely needed elsewhere in the system. If fuel prices spike though, I could see them adding the 787 on some JFK routes.

If fuel prices spike, they will be down to 70 flights out of JFK. They are not that far away.



They are closing in on 80 now.

You need to go lower with your estimate.

50-60 is where I think they go during a downturn


I’m not so sure JFK is going to be cut down much further. The Vice President of Network and Capacity Planning said recently at an employee town hall that the JFK operation is making money at its current size, and that it’s currently the most profitable it’s ever been. Plus, there isn’t much else left to cut.
 
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American 767
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:57 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
The 757-200 has been used in the past when AA had a second nonstop in addition to AA 44/45, it was AA 120/121 but the 757 is being taken off TATL routes as those too are being retried at AA, though slowly.


Yes I remember that flight, AA120/121. On my last trip to Europe about two years ago, I flew on a 763 (AA 44) from JFK to CDG. On the way back, I was supposed to fly CDG-ORD on a 77E connecting on a 738 to LGA. The flight to ORD was delayed so the night before the day of departure they rebooked me on a direct flight to JFK AA 121, and it was a 757. I was so happy to fly on a 757 TATL one more time. That was nice.

Speaking of the 757 retirement, yes the ex-US 757s are leaving the fleet this year if not this year next year but the 24 remaining LAA 757s are not going anywhere at least not before 2022. You are saying the 757s have been taken out of TATL flights, out of JFK yes, but aren't those still flying across the pond out of PHL? I know the 763s do, now at this point.
Last edited by American 767 on Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ben Soriano
 
Cointrin330
Topic Author
Posts: 1192
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:57 pm

NYCAAer wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If fuel prices spike, they will be down to 70 flights out of JFK. They are not that far away.



They are closing in on 80 now.

You need to go lower with your estimate.

50-60 is where I think they go during a downturn


I’m not so sure JFK is going to be cut down much further. The Vice President of Network and Capacity Planning said recently at an employee town hall that the JFK operation is making money at its current size, and that it’s currently the most profitable it’s ever been. Plus, there isn’t much else left to cut.


I hope you are right, though I can see AA cut the Eagle operation almost entirely, and shift to mainline or cut the routes that make no sense to be upgauged to mainline. JFK isn't really a connecting hub for AA as much as it is an O&D market. Then again, with BA co-locating into the AA terminal from 2022, which is a bit far off, AA could boost traffic onto BA flights and vice versa in a much more efficient manner than what is currently done across two terminals that are not connected.
 
N649DL
Posts: 559
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:14 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
I'm all for this as JFK is a hyper-competitive market and the new interiors on the 777 are gorgeous. Keep the 763s on PHL TATL markets like PRG and out of MIA to LatAm where they can take a beating before retirement.


The 777 interiors were nicely redone, are crisp and consistently look clean. American has a lot less competition (almost none actually) ex PHL to Europe, with the exception of LH, and so it does not have to offer the most competitive product there to keep up. The 787s coming to PHL are about the 767s getting too long in the tooth but if AA could keep them longer they would. The cabin refit on the 767's (except for the 9 new ones delivered from 2002-2003) were all done in 2005-2006 giving the business class cabin only the curved ceiling 777 architecture. Economy Class stayed the same, with the boxy overheads. No PTVs and the seats were covered up in leather. That's it.


Correct me if I'm wrong, all the AA 763s in operation have new seat covers and the new J class seats at this point right?
 
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JakubH
Posts: 138
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:05 pm

N649DL wrote:
I'm all for this as JFK is a hyper-competitive market and the new interiors on the 777 are gorgeous. Keep the 763s on PHL TATL markets like PRG and out of MIA to LatAm where they can take a beating before retirement.

Prague (PRG) is getting the A332 in 2019, with United starting new seasonal service between PRG and EWR on a 767-300.

I am still hoping the growing demand can translate into a year-round flight, perhaps by AA once there are enough 787s in Philly (which seems ideal for connections between Central Europe and most of North America).

https://www.prg.aero/en/american-airlin ... lphia-2019
https://www.prg.aero/en/united-airlines ... une-2019-0
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less.
C. S. Lewis
 
texdravid
Posts: 1810
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Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:43 am

DL757NYC wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
At this point, US airlines flying these tattered 763’s anywhere are a disgrace.

No wonder the US-3 are a joke....flying ancient relics with terrible dispatch rates and old grandmamas grumpy F/A’s to Europe!

While European and Asian carriers fly new or properly renovated planes, having nice cheerful crews, and excellent food.

Delta may be better than the rest and AA is especially egregious, but all in all they need to pick up their game.

International AA F/A’s are arguably the worst in the air.


What a stupid, misinformed post. Both United and Delta have invested a lot more in their 767-300ER's over the years to improve their dispatch rate and renovated the cabins from nose to tail. American Airlines chose to renovate just the forward, premium cabin, and leave the back of the bus as is, save for new fabric on the seats.

European and Asian legacy airlines have better service, yes, but to a point.



Most of the flying public can’t tell the age of the plane if it has an upgraded cabin like UA AND DL nor do they care. That last comment was foolish. Can’t see how a maintained 767 is a disgrace.


Who says AA’s 763’s or 752’s are well maintained. They’re not by a long shot! LH maintains the older jets. AA simply does not.

Other posters who state that AA FA’s are great and comparable to other European airlines simply do NOt fly enough. Every non LCC European airline has better FA’s than American.

I am a AA platinum member and a customer since 1978. Having lived in DFW most of my life, I know TATL on AA better than most and I can unequivocally say that the international AA cabin crew is the worst. Rude, condescending, hanging out in the back for 90% of the flight, treating customers as a chore/bore, and doing the bare minimum for service.

They scowl if you dare ask for a full can of coke nicely. They scowl if you ask for wine in coach TATL. They barely heat up the eggs or whatever mash they have onboard just before landing in CDG or LHR.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:50 am

texdravid wrote:
DL757NYC wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

What a stupid, misinformed post. Both United and Delta have invested a lot more in their 767-300ER's over the years to improve their dispatch rate and renovated the cabins from nose to tail. American Airlines chose to renovate just the forward, premium cabin, and leave the back of the bus as is, save for new fabric on the seats.

European and Asian legacy airlines have better service, yes, but to a point.



Most of the flying public can’t tell the age of the plane if it has an upgraded cabin like UA AND DL nor do they care. That last comment was foolish. Can’t see how a maintained 767 is a disgrace.


Who says AA’s 763’s or 752’s are well maintained. They’re not by a long shot! LH maintains the older jets. AA simply does not.

Other posters who state that AA FA’s are great and comparable to other European airlines simply do NOt fly enough. Every non LCC European airline has better FA’s than American.

I am a AA platinum member and a customer since 1978. Having lived in DFW most of my life, I know TATL on AA better than most and I can unequivocally say that the international AA cabin crew is the worst. Rude, condescending, hanging out in the back for 90% of the flight, treating customers as a chore/bore, and doing the bare minimum for service.

They scowl if you dare ask for a full can of coke nicely. They scowl if you ask for wine in coach TATL. They barely heat up the eggs or whatever mash they have onboard just before landing in CDG or LHR.


Life sounds pretty unfair for you!

Maybe that's why you have the not-so-subtle anger issues!
 
texdravid
Posts: 1810
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:03 am

1836Sam wrote:
texdravid wrote:
DL757NYC wrote:


Most of the flying public can’t tell the age of the plane if it has an upgraded cabin like UA AND DL nor do they care. That last comment was foolish. Can’t see how a maintained 767 is a disgrace.


Who says AA’s 763’s or 752’s are well maintained. They’re not by a long shot! LH maintains the older jets. AA simply does not.

Other posters who state that AA FA’s are great and comparable to other European airlines simply do NOt fly enough. Every non LCC European airline has better FA’s than American.

I am a AA platinum member and a customer since 1978. Having lived in DFW most of my life, I know TATL on AA better than most and I can unequivocally say that the international AA cabin crew is the worst. Rude, condescending, hanging out in the back for 90% of the flight, treating customers as a chore/bore, and doing the bare minimum for service.

They scowl if you dare ask for a full can of coke nicely. They scowl if you ask for wine in coach TATL. They barely heat up the eggs or whatever mash they have onboard just before landing in CDG or LHR.


Life sounds pretty unfair for you!

Maybe that's why you have the not-so-subtle anger issues!


Life is great on LH, BA, AF, KLM, and a host of European and Asian and Middle Eastern airlines.

It’s AA that sucks so take your tired canard of anger issues and deal with the real issue. You AA fantards can not defend AA international flight crews or their rickety 763’s.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:13 am

Yikes! She is worked up tonight!
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:31 am

texdravid wrote:
DL757NYC wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

What a stupid, misinformed post. Both United and Delta have invested a lot more in their 767-300ER's over the years to improve their dispatch rate and renovated the cabins from nose to tail. American Airlines chose to renovate just the forward, premium cabin, and leave the back of the bus as is, save for new fabric on the seats.

European and Asian legacy airlines have better service, yes, but to a point.



Most of the flying public can’t tell the age of the plane if it has an upgraded cabin like UA AND DL nor do they care. That last comment was foolish. Can’t see how a maintained 767 is a disgrace.


Who says AA’s 763’s or 752’s are well maintained. They’re not by a long shot! LH maintains the older jets. AA simply does not.

Other posters who state that AA FA’s are great and comparable to other European airlines simply do NOt fly enough. Every non LCC European airline has better FA’s than American.

I am a AA platinum member and a customer since 1978. Having lived in DFW most of my life, I know TATL on AA better than most and I can unequivocally say that the international AA cabin crew is the worst. Rude, condescending, hanging out in the back for 90% of the flight, treating customers as a chore/bore, and doing the bare minimum for service.

They scowl if you dare ask for a full can of coke nicely. They scowl if you ask for wine in coach TATL. They barely heat up the eggs or whatever mash they have onboard just before landing in CDG or LHR.

So are you an Aviation Inspector?

The planes are well maintained and have all required maintenance done to them, otherwise they wouldn’t be airworthy.

So being a frequent flier makes you qualified to say they aren’t maintained? Where did you get your A&P? Did you work for the FAA as an Inspector? Have you done a thorough inspection of the 22 763s still in service? Did you get trained by Boeing, GE and every other vendor who made the components that Boeing didn’t?

Your statement is absurd.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Ends 767-300ER TATL Service From JFK

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:32 am

texdravid wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
texdravid wrote:

Who says AA’s 763’s or 752’s are well maintained. They’re not by a long shot! LH maintains the older jets. AA simply does not.

Other posters who state that AA FA’s are great and comparable to other European airlines simply do NOt fly enough. Every non LCC European airline has better FA’s than American.

I am a AA platinum member and a customer since 1978. Having lived in DFW most of my life, I know TATL on AA better than most and I can unequivocally say that the international AA cabin crew is the worst. Rude, condescending, hanging out in the back for 90% of the flight, treating customers as a chore/bore, and doing the bare minimum for service.

They scowl if you dare ask for a full can of coke nicely. They scowl if you ask for wine in coach TATL. They barely heat up the eggs or whatever mash they have onboard just before landing in CDG or LHR.


Life sounds pretty unfair for you!

Maybe that's why you have the not-so-subtle anger issues!


Life is great on LH, BA, AF, KLM, and a host of European and Asian and Middle Eastern airlines.

It’s AA that sucks so take your tired canard of anger issues and deal with the real issue. You AA fantards can not defend AA international flight crews or their rickety 763’s.

Don’t fly them and you are absolutely ridiculous.

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