AntonioMartin
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S7 Airlines co-owner dies in plane crash

Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:23 pm

To administrators: sorry if its been posted before, I looked and could not find anything. If this is not the correct forum then by all means move it to the correct one.

Hi everyone....sad to comment that Natalia Fileva, co-owner of S7 Airlines, has died on a plane crash in Germany, according to this link:
https://www.ksl.com/article/46521908/ru ... hest-women

RIP.

Any comments/thoughts?
 
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Mortyman
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S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:27 pm

5 was killed in a aircraft crash in Germany, one of them was Natalia Fileva.

Natalia Fileva, co owner of Russian airline S7 and one of Russia's richest women was killed in a aircraft crash in Germany:

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... -car-crash


One of Russia's richest women, S7 Group co-owner Natalia Fileva, has died in a small plane crash in Germany, the Russian airline operator said Sunday.

Fileva, 55, was aboard a single-engine, six-seat Epic LT aircraft that crashed and burned in a field as it approached the small airport at Egelsbach, a town in southwestern Germany, about 3:30 p.m. Sunday, the airline's press service said in an email.

German police said there appeared to be three people aboard the plane, including the pilot of the flight, which originated in France. They said the two passengers were believed to be Russian citizens but that positive identification of the occupants would require further investigation.
 
ei146
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:02 pm

EDFE ist the most important GA-airport for the Frankfurt area and the busiest in Germany.
2 of the 5 people mentioned above died in a car accident involving a police car on the way to the crash site.
 
Kilopond
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:33 pm

Reportedly, the plane was owned by the airline S7/Globus itself. Also note, that Egelsbach is almost some sort of mini-polderbaan of FRA.

I'm not sure, but it might have been this plane pictured on flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/spotter59/41689790301
 
klm617
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:04 pm

It's interesting that my only flight in a light aircraft was from this airport and the people I flew with were also killed in a plane crash that wiped out their family of 5
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Iluvtofly
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:14 pm

ei146 wrote:
EDFE ist the most important GA-airport for the Frankfurt area and the busiest in Germany.
2 of the 5 people mentioned above died in a car accident involving a police car on the way to the crash site.


So you are saying that only 3 died in the actual plane crash ?
RIP to them
Flown - B707 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 A300 310 319 320 321 330 340 Concorde BAC111 TU154 VC10 F27 F28 F100 DC3 DC8 DC9 DC10 L1011 L188 DHC6 DHC7 DHC8 E135 E145 HS748 MD11 ST27 CV580 S340 ATR42 J31
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:41 pm

Iluvtofly wrote:
ei146 wrote:
EDFE ist the most important GA-airport for the Frankfurt area and the busiest in Germany.
2 of the 5 people mentioned above died in a car accident involving a police car on the way to the crash site.


So you are saying that only 3 died in the actual plane crash ?
RIP to them

RIP indeed.

I posted a thread and it was deleted, I guess I did not notice this one had already beaten mine to it, so that is why mine got deleted obviously.

That, however, doesn't really matter. What matters is that there is a thread we can use to pay our respects and talk about how or if this will affect S7's operations.

Hope they are all in Heaven now, happy alongside God!
 
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N14AZ
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:19 am

This is already the second crash at Egelsbach within seven years. A Citation chrashed during approach in 2012. Anything special about Egelsbach?

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... -0&lang=de
 
FlyHappy
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:01 am

I am continually amazed at the number of incredibly wealthy people who will regularly fly in single engine/single pilot aircraft, given the order of magnitude of higher risk and their financial ability to avoid it.
 
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airkas1
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:45 am

FlyHappy wrote:
I am continually amazed at the number of incredibly wealthy people who will regularly fly in single engine/single pilot aircraft, given the order of magnitude of higher risk and their financial ability to avoid it.

While I can agree to the above, the cause of this crash is not known yet and is perhaps not even related to either single pilot or single engine.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:08 am

FlyHappy wrote:
I am continually amazed at the number of incredibly wealthy people who will regularly fly in single engine/single pilot aircraft, given the order of magnitude of higher risk and their financial ability to avoid it.


I share that feeling.

As Airkas said, it could be unrelated in this case, but the fact (and paradox) remains that private aviation, as flashy and exclusive as it is, is much more dangerous than airline flying.

Even modern mutli-engine business jets suffer from a much worse accident rate than airliners (comparatively).

Ironically, Johnny Schmuck and the rest of the plebs like myself flying a clapped out A320/737 to a cheap holiday resort are much safer doing so than a big time CEO flying his bizjet to his private island in the Caribbean...
...not as comfy, but safer nonetheless.

RIP.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
mxaxai
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:50 am

Per Wikipedia, the aircraft ...
... is a kit-plane
... was involved in a gear-up landing at DME in 2015
... is pretty high performance - same engine as the larger PC-12NG (almost)

Weather was good in Germany. The above points make a part failure more likely than on a regular passenger aircraft. However, the last bullet point, combined with the reported switch from IFR to VFR (a standard procedure, but still...) and being very close to the airfield, makes pilot failure the more likely cause. The wreck is not very spread out, suggesting a low lateral velocity. There was a fire, so fuel starvation is unlikely.

The Epic LT / Epic E1000 has a pretty high cruise speed and service ceiling. This usually doesn't combine well with good low-speed handling. Add to that the slow response from a turboprop and it's easy to see how you could find yourself in a stall, too close to the ground.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:51 am

When I was flying as a private pilot, I was actually quite surprised about how frequent crashes are in general aviation. Flying is still a fairly high-risk activity once you take away all of the experience, safety systems and redundancies that we're used to in civil aviation. There were at least two crashes whilst I was there, one of them on the plane I was supposed to fly on.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:07 am

Francoflier wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I am continually amazed at the number of incredibly wealthy people who will regularly fly in single engine/single pilot aircraft, given the order of magnitude of higher risk and their financial ability to avoid it.


I share that feeling.

As Airkas said, it could be unrelated in this case, but the fact (and paradox) remains that private aviation, as flashy and exclusive as it is, is much more dangerous than airline flying.

Even modern mutli-engine business jets suffer from a much worse accident rate than airliners (comparatively).

Ironically, Johnny Schmuck and the rest of the plebs like myself flying a clapped out A320/737 to a cheap holiday resort are much safer doing so than a big time CEO flying his bizjet to his private island in the Caribbean...
...not as comfy, but safer nonetheless.

RIP.


And yet we have millions of flights on these tiny mosquito models every day across the globe, including above my house where they fly like 300 times a day on practice flights and such.. So, they are pretty safe too, I reckon.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:10 am

mxaxai wrote:
Per Wikipedia.

We (Im a Wikipedian since 2002) already have an article about this crash??
 
reltney
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:17 am

mxaxai wrote:
Per Wikipedia, the aircraft ...
... is a kit-plane
... was involved in a gear-up landing at DME in 2015
... is pretty high performance - same engine as the larger PC-12NG (almost)

Weather was good in Germany. The above points make a part failure more likely than on a regular passenger aircraft. However, the last bullet point, combined with the reported switch from IFR to VFR (a standard procedure, but still...) and being very close to the airfield, makes pilot failure the more likely cause. The wreck is not very spread out, suggesting a low lateral velocity. There was a fire, so fuel starvation is unlikely.

The Epic LT / Epic E1000 has a pretty high cruise speed and service ceiling. This usually doesn't combine well with good low-speed handling. Add to that the slow response from a turboprop and it's easy to see how you could find yourself in a stall, too close to the ground.


"..................................................................................................WRONG....................................................................

WRONG... i am not slamming you, just trying to kill your misinformation as it is totally incorrect. No doubt you are NOT a pilot or mechanic and guessing

I fly an Epic LT as a PACE plane at the Reno Air Races and it is a GREAT performer. It has excellent low speed stall and easily lets us launch the jet class at 310kts indicated.

The turbo prop has EXCELLENT response! Instant power!!!! The beauty of the turboprop is it’s instant acceleration.....
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
ei146
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:21 pm

Iluvtofly wrote:
ei146 wrote:
EDFE ist the most important GA-airport for the Frankfurt area and the busiest in Germany.
2 of the 5 people mentioned above died in a car accident involving a police car on the way to the crash site.


So you are saying that only 3 died in the actual plane crash ?
RIP to them


Indeed.
Here is a reference in German. Sorry!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:17 pm

Francoflier wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I am continually amazed at the number of incredibly wealthy people who will regularly fly in single engine/single pilot aircraft, given the order of magnitude of higher risk and their financial ability to avoid it.


I share that feeling.

As Airkas said, it could be unrelated in this case, but the fact (and paradox) remains that private aviation, as flashy and exclusive as it is, is much more dangerous than airline flying.

Even modern mutli-engine business jets suffer from a much worse accident rate than airliners (comparatively).

Ironically, Johnny Schmuck and the rest of the plebs like myself flying a clapped out A320/737 to a cheap holiday resort are much safer doing so than a big time CEO flying his bizjet to his private island in the Caribbean...
...not as comfy, but safer nonetheless.

RIP.


Commonly thought, but not true if you compare like to like—professionally flown modern bizjets versus professionally flown modern airliners. Three thousand Globals, Challenger 300s, Gulfstream 450/550/650 and not a fatal hull loss in this century. But do carry on...


Gf
 
mxaxai
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:08 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Per Wikipedia.

We (Im a Wikipedian since 2002) already have an article about this crash??

Not a full article ... the crash itself is certainly not worthy of its own article. But it is mentioned on the article of the aircraft model (Epic LT). There was some heavy editing going on in the past 24 hours, adding and removing crashes from the page. I was mainly referring to the aircraft's performance.

reltney wrote:
I fly an Epic LT as a PACE plane at the Reno Air Races and it is a GREAT performer. It has excellent low speed stall and easily lets us launch the jet class at 310kts indicated.

The turbo prop has EXCELLENT response! Instant power!!!! The beauty of the turboprop is it’s instant acceleration.....

Thanks for the response. I'm just a glider pilot and high-performance gliders are often more likely to stall, and experience more severe stalls, than less optimised models. Similarly, a small GA plane I've flown (once) is fast and economic but pilots complain of sluggish de- and acceleration. It's nice to see that performance does not always preclude good handling.

However, I still expect this to be a stall / spin. Catastrophic mechanical failures are just so rare nowadays. Most recent GA crashes in VMC in my vicinity have been stall after take off, stall on approach, botched landing, mid air collision, or the pilot simply mishandling the aircraft in another way. Not all, of course, but generally that's what happens. Mechanical failures, most commonly engine failures, are a distant second.
 
32andBelow
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:39 pm

F
 
eielef
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:52 pm

It seems there was no copilot, is that common?
 
mxaxai
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:58 pm

eielef wrote:
It seems there was no copilot, is that common?

It's a single engine 6 seater. I don't think I've ever seen an aircraft of this size require a copilot and single-pilot operations are quite common. Just like most C-172 flights are done without a copilot.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:08 pm

airkas1 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I am continually amazed at the number of incredibly wealthy people who will regularly fly in single engine/single pilot aircraft, given the order of magnitude of higher risk and their financial ability to avoid it.

While I can agree to the above, the cause of this crash is not known yet and is perhaps not even related to either single pilot or single engine.


I absolutely am not prematurely attributing this crash to single engine/single pilot issues in anyway, shape or form.

What I am reflecting on is the nearly inarguable reality that GA flying is a magnitude riskier (even if low risk in the absolute sense) than commercial, and even that of professionally run Bizjet ops. I'm guessing you know all the reasons better than I.

If I am a business tycoon of any ilk, the hourly cost of a twin turbine, twin pilot, professionally maintained Bizjet wouldn't even make me think twice when I consider the intrinsically safer transport which that mode represents. If I were said tycoon, I would not even allow my employees to fly like that, when safer options are at hand.

It isn't like this airport isn't teaming with Bizjets.
 
Chemist
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:14 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
I am continually amazed at the number of incredibly wealthy people who will regularly fly in single engine/single pilot aircraft, given the order of magnitude of higher risk and their financial ability to avoid it.


And yet they also jetski and scuba dive and ride motorcycles, too.
Sometimes you take some chances for things you enjoy.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:49 pm

Chemist wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I am continually amazed at the number of incredibly wealthy people who will regularly fly in single engine/single pilot aircraft, given the order of magnitude of higher risk and their financial ability to avoid it.


And yet they also jetski and scuba dive and ride motorcycles, too.
Sometimes you take some chances for things you enjoy.


I no longer ride a 70's vintage aluminum pontooned, open prop jetski, nor dive with 50's vintage "frogman" scuba gear. I am doubtful many people still do; because there are simply superior options.
I also stopped working on the suspension and brakes of my own motorcyles and turned it over to pro mechanics, once I had the means to do so.
The thrills are still the same.

I am dubious that wealthy passengers choose to fly in a kitplane class aircraft (not flying themselves, remember) over a Bizjet (or even "Bizprop") purely out of a sense of personal enjoyment. Highly dubious.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:59 pm

mxaxai wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Per Wikipedia.

We (Im a Wikipedian since 2002) already have an article about this crash??

Not a full article ... the crash itself is certainly not worthy of its own article. But it is mentioned on the article of the aircraft model (Epic LT). There was some heavy editing going on in the past 24 hours, adding and removing crashes from the page. I was mainly referring to the aircraft's performance.

[quote="reltney"]
Ohhh yeah..that will happen as we all know...

What else is known about the crash yet?
 
PC12Fan
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:51 am

mxaxai wrote:

The Epic LT / Epic E1000 has a pretty high cruise speed and service ceiling. This usually doesn't combine well with good low-speed handling. Add to that the slow response from a turboprop and it's easy to see how you could find yourself in a stall, too close to the ground.


I also disagree with your assumption. The Epic is very similar in performance to the TBM 900 series. 320+kts high speed cruise, VSO (stall, in landing configuration) 67 KIAS. (65 for the TBM930)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the LT is the kit and the E1000 is going through the certification process for production now.

Side note, Epic expressed condolences on their opening page to the victims.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
reltney
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:51 am

mxaxai wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Per Wikipedia.

We (Im a Wikipedian since 2002) already have an article about this crash??

Not a full article ... the crash itself is certainly not worthy of its own article. But it is mentioned on the article of the aircraft model (Epic LT). There was some heavy editing going on in the past 24 hours, adding and removing crashes from the page. I was mainly referring to the aircraft's performance.

reltney wrote:
I fly an Epic LT as a PACE plane at the Reno Air Races and it is a GREAT performer. It has excellent low speed stall and easily lets us launch the jet class at 310kts indicated.

The turbo prop has EXCELLENT response! Instant power!!!! The beauty of the turboprop is it’s instant acceleration.....

Thanks for the response. I'm just a glider pilot and high-performance gliders are often more likely to stall, and experience more severe stalls, than less optimised models. Similarly, a small GA plane I've flown (once) is fast and economic but pilots complain of sluggish de- and acceleration. It's nice to see that performance does not always preclude good handling.

However, I still expect this to be a stall / spin. Catastrophic mechanical failures are just so rare nowadays. Most recent GA crashes in VMC in my vicinity have been stall after take off, stall on approach, botched landing, mid air collision, or the pilot simply mishandling the aircraft in another way. Not all, of course, but generally that's what happens. Mechanical failures, most commonly engine failures, are a distant second.



I would bet you correct! Stall spin CFiT or some type of pilot error and engine failure seem to be the likely causes. Sad.

BTW gliders are soooo cool. Best pilots I fly with in the airlines and military were/are glider pilots.
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
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Revelation
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:13 pm

reltney wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
However, I still expect this to be a stall / spin. Catastrophic mechanical failures are just so rare nowadays. Most recent GA crashes in VMC in my vicinity have been stall after take off, stall on approach, botched landing, mid air collision, or the pilot simply mishandling the aircraft in another way. Not all, of course, but generally that's what happens. Mechanical failures, most commonly engine failures, are a distant second.

I would bet you correct! Stall spin CFiT or some type of pilot error and engine failure seem to be the likely causes. Sad.

BTW gliders are soooo cool. Best pilots I fly with in the airlines and military were/are glider pilots.

Some famous people are also glider pilots: US Airways pilot Sulley Sullenberger (who was an active glider instructor at the time of the Hudson River landing), and a.net member Revelation!

Personally I found my stall/spin training to be very valuable. Me and an instructor put on parachutes and got a tow up to 5,000 ft and my instructor demo'd how to get in to and out of a spin and a stall in a Blanik L-13, a plane that likes to spin. Personally I'd hope every pilot got such training, although I understand these days few do.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Noshow
Posts: 895
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:18 pm

OT: Most Blaniks developed cracks in their wings and had their aerobatic permit revoked.
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 2100
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:19 am

Has anyone heard anything more regarding this accident?
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
reltney
Posts: 434
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Re: S7 co owner killed in German plane crash

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:50 am

Revelation wrote:
reltney wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
However, I still expect this to be a stall / spin. Catastrophic mechanical failures are just so rare nowadays. Most recent GA crashes in VMC in my vicinity have been stall after take off, stall on approach, botched landing, mid air collision, or the pilot simply mishandling the aircraft in another way. Not all, of course, but generally that's what happens. Mechanical failures, most commonly engine failures, are a distant second.

I would bet you correct! Stall spin CFiT or some type of pilot error and engine failure seem to be the likely causes. Sad.

BTW gliders are soooo cool. Best pilots I fly with in the airlines and military were/are glider pilots.

Some famous people are also glider pilots: US Airways pilot Sulley Sullenberger (who was an active glider instructor at the time of the Hudson River landing), and a.net member Revelation!

Personally I found my stall/spin training to be very valuable. Me and an instructor put on parachutes and got a tow up to 5,000 ft and my instructor demo'd how to get in to and out of a spin and a stall in a Blanik L-13, a plane that likes to spin. Personally I'd hope every pilot got such training, although I understand these days few do.



Love gliding. My sons tow on weekends and instruct . It’s great.
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...

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