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MavyWavyATR
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:25 am

Wneast wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:

Wouldn't be surprised if they look into maybe HSH (most likely alternate for LAS), COS, SEA or PAE, and maybe JAC.

Not sure if HSH is setup for commercial service?? Parking lot of 750 spaces, TSA screening, and equipment. Bagroom, holding area, ticket counter, etc

Well there going to LAS so it won’t matter


Unless there's something concrete saying that XP is indeed heading to LAS, this is just speculation. Plus, didn't think they'd consider LAS directly; especially considering that 3 airlines (4 after F9 jumps in on 7/15) already operate the BUR-LAS route.
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:30 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Not sure if HSH is setup for commercial service?? Parking lot of 750 spaces, TSA screening, and equipment. Bagroom, holding area, ticket counter, etc

Well there going to LAS so it won’t matter


Unless there's something concrete saying that XP is indeed heading to LAS, this is just speculation. Plus, didn't think they'd consider LAS directly; especially considering that 3 airlines (4 after F9 jumps in on 7/15) already operate the BUR-LAS route.

You will see next week when they announce it formally.... really surprises me they would go head to head on that route WN is at 9 daily right now I don’t know how they can succeed with WN at such high frequency
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:52 am

Wneast wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Well there going to LAS so it won’t matter


Unless there's something concrete saying that XP is indeed heading to LAS, this is just speculation. Plus, didn't think they'd consider LAS directly; especially considering that 3 airlines (4 after F9 jumps in on 7/15) already operate the BUR-LAS route.

You will see next week when they announce it formally.... really surprises me they would go head to head on that route WN is at 9 daily right now I don’t know how they can succeed with WN at such high frequency


That’s a quick way to burn through investors’ money. Virgin America did the same thing and only became barely profitable up until the time Alaska placed a bid to acquire them.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:17 am

Loads must have dropped dramatically for fall bookings and they’re trying to formulate a new plan. Can they make this work? I know many speculated that they couldn’t. They’re an airline in search of a purpose.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1596
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:59 pm

jjbiv wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
New routes coming what we think they may be ?


Wouldn't be surprised if they look into maybe HSH (most likely alternate for LAS), COS, SEA or PAE, and maybe JAC.


HSH? Do you mean HND (Henderson Executive Airport) or something else? Do they even have facilities for scheduled air carrier flights there?

Plenty of room at Henderson to expand, for now….

IIRC, the Shade hangars north of the terminal can be easily moved to the south ramp, and a temp terminal, even a soft side, could be put there. And plenty of room near the south ramp for a terminal in the future.

The real issue is the runway length, they would be heavily restricted getting off of it. And it is almost 500:ft higher than LAS.
Right now, at 6am local, the density altitude at LAS is 5,287 ft. It is only a bit higher at Henderson, but the runway is only 6500 ft.

Fine for a GV or a Falcon, but a whole different story for an 737-800.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1596
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:03 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
With such a small fleet, the mechanic makes sense. There is a definite need to keep things moving


What range of issues can an onboard mechanic and accompanying equipment be expected to handle? Very curious - this is a helluva assignment in this day and age.

Almost anything, likely a box of spare rotables like exit lighting, bulbs, etc that can be no-go items. Even a tire kit. Mostly just signing off MEL’s for later repair, things like a broken coffee pot, seat back, etc., that could take hours to get done in a small station. Local contract line maint can assist with anything major.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1596
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:06 pm

Wneast wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Well there going to LAS so it won’t matter


Unless there's something concrete saying that XP is indeed heading to LAS, this is just speculation. Plus, didn't think they'd consider LAS directly; especially considering that 3 airlines (4 after F9 jumps in on 7/15) already operate the BUR-LAS route.

You will see next week when they announce it formally.... really surprises me they would go head to head on that route WN is at 9 daily right now I don’t know how they can succeed with WN at such high frequency

Meh… There is always a huge amount of fare stimulated traffic on SoCal-Las, I can remember 50-60 flights a day, or more, just from LAX.
And, it is a bigger market, meaning for name recognition for the future.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5641
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:03 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
With such a small fleet, the mechanic makes sense. There is a definite need to keep things moving


What range of issues can an onboard mechanic and accompanying equipment be expected to handle? Very curious - this is a helluva assignment in this day and age.

Almost anything, likely a box of spare rotables like exit lighting, bulbs, etc that can be no-go items. Even a tire kit. Mostly just signing off MEL’s for later repair, things like a broken coffee pot, seat back, etc., that could take hours to get done in a small station. Local contract line maint can assist with anything major.

This is exactly why having 2 small split fleets 3000 miles is going to be a nightmare operationally
 
sxf24
Posts: 1243
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:42 pm

32andBelow wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

What range of issues can an onboard mechanic and accompanying equipment be expected to handle? Very curious - this is a helluva assignment in this day and age.

Almost anything, likely a box of spare rotables like exit lighting, bulbs, etc that can be no-go items. Even a tire kit. Mostly just signing off MEL’s for later repair, things like a broken coffee pot, seat back, etc., that could take hours to get done in a small station. Local contract line maint can assist with anything major.

This is exactly why having 2 small split fleets 3000 miles is going to be a nightmare operationally


How do you think Allegiant does it? Their entire fleet is operationally split among bases.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1596
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:57 pm

32andBelow wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

What range of issues can an onboard mechanic and accompanying equipment be expected to handle? Very curious - this is a helluva assignment in this day and age.

Almost anything, likely a box of spare rotables like exit lighting, bulbs, etc that can be no-go items. Even a tire kit. Mostly just signing off MEL’s for later repair, things like a broken coffee pot, seat back, etc., that could take hours to get done in a small station. Local contract line maint can assist with anything major.

This is exactly why having 2 small split fleets 3000 miles is going to be a nightmare operationally

Ask Mesa about this…..
This used to be the norm for smaller airlines. ATA carried a mechanic on all of the Hawaii and International charter trips.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:45 pm

LAS-LA is trash yields, they’d lose money even if the plane was 100% full because it’ll be full with low paying customers.
 
MavyWavyATR
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:11 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
jjbiv wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:

Wouldn't be surprised if they look into maybe HSH (most likely alternate for LAS), COS, SEA or PAE, and maybe JAC.


HSH? Do you mean HND (Henderson Executive Airport) or something else? Do they even have facilities for scheduled air carrier flights there?

Plenty of room at Henderson to expand, for now….

IIRC, the Shade hangars north of the terminal can be easily moved to the south ramp, and a temp terminal, even a soft side, could be put there. And plenty of room near the south ramp for a terminal in the future.

The real issue is the runway length, they would be heavily restricted getting off of it. And it is almost 500:ft higher than LAS.
Right now, at 6am local, the density altitude at LAS is 5,287 ft. It is only a bit higher at Henderson, but the runway is only 6500 ft.

Fine for a GV or a Falcon, but a whole different story for an 737-800.


Would the -700's face the same problem there as well?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5641
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:00 pm

sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Almost anything, likely a box of spare rotables like exit lighting, bulbs, etc that can be no-go items. Even a tire kit. Mostly just signing off MEL’s for later repair, things like a broken coffee pot, seat back, etc., that could take hours to get done in a small station. Local contract line maint can assist with anything major.

This is exactly why having 2 small split fleets 3000 miles is going to be a nightmare operationally


How do you think Allegiant does it? Their entire fleet is operationally split among bases.

What do you mean. Look at allegiants route map see how all the stuff in the middle goes to 2 different hubs. It makes it so their airplanes can be routed throughout their network
 
sxf24
Posts: 1243
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:11 pm

32andBelow wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
This is exactly why having 2 small split fleets 3000 miles is going to be a nightmare operationally


How do you think Allegiant does it? Their entire fleet is operationally split among bases.

What do you mean. Look at allegiants route map see how all the stuff in the middle goes to 2 different hubs. It makes it so their airplanes can be routed throughout their network


Airplanes and crews have one base and return every night. I know it boggles people’s minds. But you can be successful without an integrated network. That’s how Ryanair and Easyjet work too!
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:14 pm

Wneast wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Well there going to LAS so it won’t matter


Unless there's something concrete saying that XP is indeed heading to LAS, this is just speculation. Plus, didn't think they'd consider LAS directly; especially considering that 3 airlines (4 after F9 jumps in on 7/15) already operate the BUR-LAS route.

You will see next week when they announce it formally.... really surprises me they would go head to head on that route WN is at 9 daily right now I don’t know how they can succeed with WN at such high frequency


Operating 1 daily or so (or less) while other carriers operate significant daily frequencies is pretty much part of the model of Spirit and Frontier. Look at MSY for example, Spirit is doing 1x or so daily to ATL (up against 10+ on DL), IAH (10+ UA, plus WN to HOU), DFW (10ish on AA, plus WN to DAL), and plenty of other examples. They aren't trying to compete on frequency, but rather price.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:17 pm

sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Almost anything, likely a box of spare rotables like exit lighting, bulbs, etc that can be no-go items. Even a tire kit. Mostly just signing off MEL’s for later repair, things like a broken coffee pot, seat back, etc., that could take hours to get done in a small station. Local contract line maint can assist with anything major.

This is exactly why having 2 small split fleets 3000 miles is going to be a nightmare operationally


How do you think Allegiant does it? Their entire fleet is operationally split among bases.


Not to mention most of the EU LCCs/ULCCs (although Allegiant is the only one to replicate this in the US). People on this forum are stuck on business the way network carriers work, but not all airlines have to operate that way.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:33 pm

sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

How do you think Allegiant does it? Their entire fleet is operationally split among bases.

What do you mean. Look at allegiants route map see how all the stuff in the middle goes to 2 different hubs. It makes it so their airplanes can be routed throughout their network


Airplanes and crews have one base and return every night. I know it boggles people’s minds. But you can be successful without an integrated network. That’s how Ryanair and Easyjet work too!



It works well when the distances are short and population density high. It doesn't take much to find a new 1-2hr route out of a major EU city.

Finding something for the plane to do out of Grand Rapids Michigan or Concord New Hampshire is entirely different.
 
alpine1989
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:09 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Almost anything, likely a box of spare rotables like exit lighting, bulbs, etc that can be no-go items. Even a tire kit. Mostly just signing off MEL’s for later repair, things like a broken coffee pot, seat back, etc., that could take hours to get done in a small station. Local contract line maint can assist with anything major.

This is exactly why having 2 small split fleets 3000 miles is going to be a nightmare operationally

Ask Mesa about this…..
This used to be the norm for smaller airlines. ATA carried a mechanic on all of the Hawaii and International charter trips.


No, ATA did not have mechanics on all flights from at least 1997+. Only on select military flights into very remote locations.
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:52 am

I read that they are planning on doing a hub and spoke model. They’re adding 3 planes soon (not including New Haven), so I wonder if they will utilize these for connecting routes in BUR. This would be the best way to accelerate customer growth.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15174
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:28 am

joeblow10 wrote:
The real issue I have with the startup was the velocity ... they gave people a month to buy tickets on an airline nobody has ever heard of before. And they have no presence on OTAs at the moment - which makes it next to impossible to reach the average customer who has yet to hear of them.

The concept makes total sense... but the execution has been iffy to say the least, at least from my perspective. Seems to me like they should have held off a few more months and really gone all out on marketing

Despite living nearby I had never heard of Avelo until this morning when I saw a plane at Terminal B from the window of my WN flight out of BUR.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5746
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:11 am

caribbeanSwag wrote:
I read that they are planning on doing a hub and spoke model. They’re adding 3 planes soon (not including New Haven), so I wonder if they will utilize these for connecting routes in BUR. This would be the best way to accelerate customer growth.


With what additional gates?
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:50 am

joeblow10 wrote:
The real issue I have with the startup was the velocity ... they gave people a month to buy tickets on an airline nobody has ever heard of before. And they have no presence on OTAs at the moment - which makes it next to impossible to reach the average customer who has yet to hear of them.

The concept makes total sense... but the execution has been iffy to say the least, at least from my perspective. Seems to me like they should have held off a few more months and really gone all out on marketing


Late response but let me tell you why I disagree with your second paragraph. I definitely don’t think Avelo (or any similar start up) should go all out on marketing starting out. Simply put, the airline isn’t even close to its initial vision yet. The soft marketing gets it going but if many people knew early on about Avelo and tried them or tried booking and such, they’d be disappointed down the line. They’ll pour into marketing when they’re there. Perhaps gain naming rights to a Houston sports stadium to stamp on it.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4606
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:45 am

I think it's funny that some would see this as doom and gloom for cutting some routes. Frontier and a few others will start a route, run it for a few months, and leave. If the route isn't performing as planned, why would anyone stay in it? The industry is a different animal now.

I would love to see Avelo come up to Seattle. BFI is ripe.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:32 am

caribbeanSwag wrote:
I read that they are planning on doing a hub and spoke model. They’re adding 3 planes soon (not including New Haven), so I wonder if they will utilize these for connecting routes in BUR. This would be the best way to accelerate customer growth.


This would be an absolute disaster. Avelo's model is centred around providing mainline direct service between small cities and places with a large amount of leisure demand, and stimulating demand in these markets by offering low fares. Hub-and-spoke would eliminate those low fares, and subsequently would eliminate the demand.

You also can't operate hub-and-spoke when you only fly to most cities a few times a week.
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:27 pm

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this fully, as well as GJT and BZN being cut, most other routes have had capacity reductions:

BUR-AZA - 7x weekly -> 4x weekly (bookings currently unavailable)
BUR-EUG - 4x weekly (no change)
BUR-MFR - 4x weekly -> 2x weekly
BUR-OGD - 6x weekly -> 4x weekly
BUR-PSC - 3x weekly (no change)
BUR-RDD - 3x weekly -> 2x weekly
BUR-RDM - 3x weekly -> 2x weekly
BUR-STS - 14x weekly -> 6x weekly

The schedule changes now leave XP with absolutely no flights on Wednesdays and Saturdays, and only one flight on Tuesdays, so lots of room to add additional routes.

I think everyone can agree that the initially planned frequencies on almost all of XP's routes were far too ambitious and probably wouldn't even work pre-COVID. There's a reason why G4 tends to only operate routes twice a week; if scheduled correctly it provides enough capacity to cater for people travelling for both short and long trips, but it also doesn't oversaturate the market. It's important to remember that XP's model is one that creates demand rather than captures demand; it can operate in small markets with little PDEW/current demand since the low fares will convince some people to travel just for the sake of it, and it will convert some people who'd normally drive to fly, which creates enough demand to fill a low-frequency service. It would be almost impossible to stimulate a market enough to provide enough support for an almost-daily service, hence why I think XP was a bit too ambitious with most of its initial route frequencies.

F9Animal wrote:
I think it's funny that some would see this as doom and gloom for cutting some routes. Frontier and a few others will start a route, run it for a few months, and leave. If the route isn't performing as planned, why would anyone stay in it? The industry is a different animal now.

Agreed, I fail to see why XP cutting flights is really that shocking since I'm pretty sure we can all agree it was somewhat inevitable. However, I think the fact that there's now no flights on certain days is a big issue. One of G4's core principles is that it owns all of its aircraft, so it can afford to fly them fewer hours per day compared to other LCCs. XP doesn't have this advantage since all of its aircraft (as of now) are leased, so they're going to be paying for the aircraft when they're sat on the ground losing money. Yes, B737 leasing costs are much lower than they were pre-COVID, however that's still an additional cost that will hurt any startup carrier. Having no flights on Saturday also seems like a very foolish decision, seeing as the weekend is usually the best time for leisure travel, especially for short trips to LA.

XP has also stated they plan to add at least three additional 737-800s before the end of the year. Seeing as no additional bases have been announced, and considering the fact that the HVN base was announced before they'd even purchased the 737-700s, I think it's safe to say XP will only operate out of BUR and HVN this year, so the new 738s must be intended for growing the BUR base. I've no idea if this plan will be revised seeing as they now don't operate enough flights to properly utilise two aircraft, or perhaps they planned to announce another 738 base but something's happened that means it can't happen, but if XP seriously thought it could profitably utilise another three aircraft out of BUR, I'd say that raises serious questions about XP's decision-making and route-planning. Again, clearly XP's initial schedule was far too ambitious, however the fact that they planned on adding additional aircraft within less than a year after the BUR base opened suggests they actually thought their launch schedule would be successful. I don't consider myself to be an industry expert by any means, however I really don't think it takes an industry expert to recognise that you're not going to find enough people in a town like Ogden, with a population of just over 80,000 and is in the same catchment area as airports like SLC and PVU, the latter of which already has G4 service to LAX, to fill 1,134 seats a week to a little regional airport just outside of Hollywood.

If the rumours on here are true about XP targeting places like LAS from BUR, I think that's also a big red flag. I think AZA was perhaps one of the best chances they had at serving larger cities; Phoenix isn't that oversaturated from the LA area, and going from AZA is not only cheaper but also gives the opportunity to target people living closer to AZA than PHX. However, seeing as AZA has right now been cut completely, that should really send a massive to XP's network team that right now they cannot effectively compete in bigger cities. It also completely strays away from XP's original idea of connecting smaller cities to larger leisure destinations, AZA they could somewhat get away with since it's technically the airport for Mesa and not Phoenix, however there's no small city that you can say you're serving by flying to LAS. Plus, G4 is known to defend its territory, so it would snap up any LAS route that XP somehow makes a profit on.

Do I think XP is doomed? No, its model has massive potential, and it is certainly riding against some massive headwinds like COVID right now. However, I think it could find itself in a tough spot if it continues going down its current path.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5746
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:55 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I think it's funny that some would see this as doom and gloom for cutting some routes. Frontier and a few others will start a route, run it for a few months, and leave. If the route isn't performing as planned, why would anyone stay in it? The industry is a different animal now.

I would love to see Avelo come up to Seattle. BFI is ripe.


They won't and couldn't fly to BFI because there's no TSA at BFI. But perhaps PAE if UA (I seriously doubt AS would) sell or "lease" an opened slot to PAE.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4704
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:54 pm

airlinepeanuts wrote:
LAS-LA is trash yields, they’d lose money even if the plane was 100% full because it’ll be full with low paying customers.


There are some affluent travelers in Greater Los Angeles who can afford to pay higher fares for AA, DL, UA, B6, AS, and WN nonstop flights to LAS from LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA and who are willing to do so.

WN also has some connecting traffic on its LAS-LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA nonstop flights due to WN having a hub at LAS.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5641
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:23 pm

sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

How do you think Allegiant does it? Their entire fleet is operationally split among bases.

What do you mean. Look at allegiants route map see how all the stuff in the middle goes to 2 different hubs. It makes it so their airplanes can be routed throughout their network


Airplanes and crews have one base and return every night. I know it boggles people’s minds. But you can be successful without an integrated network. That’s how Ryanair and Easyjet work too!

You’re tell me the allegiant planes never leave their assigned base?
 
PITFlyer330
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri May 14, 2021 4:56 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:01 pm

Wneast wrote:
Looks like they might be entering LAS don’t think that will go well


where did you hear this? any link?
born and raised in PIT. AUS second home. Currently in asia
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5273
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:05 pm

If Avelo is entering LAS, I could see them try a few of the smaller cities such as ACV/RDD/STS-LAS. Most of their cities already have Allegiant flights to LAS, but there are a few without LAS flights.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:08 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Looks like they might be entering LAS don’t think that will go well


where did you hear this? any link?

A avelo worker
 
sxf24
Posts: 1243
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:20 pm

32andBelow wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
What do you mean. Look at allegiants route map see how all the stuff in the middle goes to 2 different hubs. It makes it so their airplanes can be routed throughout their network


Airplanes and crews have one base and return every night. I know it boggles people’s minds. But you can be successful without an integrated network. That’s how Ryanair and Easyjet work too!

You’re tell me the allegiant planes never leave their assigned base?


Not on a daily basis.
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:10 pm

I don’t see LAS as a red flag. On one hand, it is extremely saturated with routes. But on the other hand, it’s Vegas. It’s a market like no other. It’s the premier tourist destination of America. It’s the place where people always seek to go and find the cheapest possible ticket to get there. Much like Avelo’s other routes, a Vegas flight can succeed if Avelo maintains having one of the cheapest tickets available.
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:13 pm

TexasAirCorp wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:
I read that they are planning on doing a hub and spoke model. They’re adding 3 planes soon (not including New Haven), so I wonder if they will utilize these for connecting routes in BUR. This would be the best way to accelerate customer growth.


This would be an absolute disaster. Avelo's model is centred around providing mainline direct service between small cities and places with a large amount of leisure demand, and stimulating demand in these markets by offering low fares. Hub-and-spoke would eliminate those low fares, and subsequently would eliminate the demand.

You also can't operate hub-and-spoke when you only fly to most cities a few times a week.


However, the difference here is that hub and spoke doesn’t have to be Southwest Airlines. For example, a Phoenix-Santa Rosa flight via Burbank can only have 2x weekly availability, for example.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1874
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:38 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I think it's funny that some would see this as doom and gloom for cutting some routes. Frontier and a few others will start a route, run it for a few months, and leave. If the route isn't performing as planned, why would anyone stay in it? The industry is a different animal now.

I would love to see Avelo come up to Seattle. BFI is ripe.


This is ridiculous. BFI is 10 minutes away from SEA. It's not super easy in and out, there are limited to no facilities (parking, terminal, car rentals...) and if anybody tries to fly mainline style jets to BFI, AS is going to go right into BFI and make it miserable for them. The only reason someone would go to BFI under current conditions is if the price were SUPER cheap - otherwise, there's really no point. SEA is right up the street. Southwest and Alaska were planning on building a terminal there when they got into their pissing match because there's no terminal for regular operations with a 737 right now for the most part. BFI couldn't even work for JSX.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5641
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:10 pm

sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

Airplanes and crews have one base and return every night. I know it boggles people’s minds. But you can be successful without an integrated network. That’s how Ryanair and Easyjet work too!

You’re tell me the allegiant planes never leave their assigned base?


Not on a daily basis.

But it had the ability to. Avelo doesn’t have the ability too without deadheading planes. Which means they are going to have to ship parts all over the places.
 
sxf24
Posts: 1243
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:19 am

32andBelow wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
You’re tell me the allegiant planes never leave their assigned base?


Not on a daily basis.

But it had the ability to. Avelo doesn’t have the ability too without deadheading planes. Which means they are going to have to ship parts all over the places.


Every U.S. airline has spare parts in multiple cities.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4679
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:12 am

737NG parts are widely available in every corner of the country. Airlines borrow spares from each other ALL the time. Need a wheel assembly at some outstation in the SE? Call DL and they’ll probably lend one out and you ship them your spare that’s sitting in SoCal.

It’s one of the two best selling airplanes in history - you can probably find every single spare part you can imagine within a 3 hour drive of any location in the continental US. They’ll be okay.

This isn’t the A220 or an aging airplane that is on its way out of the support network. The 737 is the Honda Civic of airplanes; there is a part supply in every town that is big enough to have its own fire station.
 
MavyWavyATR
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:44 am

Going back to Avelo now, as well as adding on to some of the potential future destinations I listed earlier, do you think it'd be worth their while to look into maybe Hawaii once their -700's come online?
Last edited by MavyWavyATR on Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:49 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Going back to Avelo now, as well as adding on to some of the potential future destinations I listed earlier, do you think it'd be worth their while to look into maybe Hawaii (from BUR) once their -700's come online?

I’m not saying no but what routes to hawaii would they do besides BUR ? Or from BUR all the islands?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15618
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:58 am

ikramerica wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
The real issue I have with the startup was the velocity ... they gave people a month to buy tickets on an airline nobody has ever heard of before. And they have no presence on OTAs at the moment - which makes it next to impossible to reach the average customer who has yet to hear of them.

The concept makes total sense... but the execution has been iffy to say the least, at least from my perspective. Seems to me like they should have held off a few more months and really gone all out on marketing

Despite living nearby I had never heard of Avelo until this morning when I saw a plane at Terminal B from the window of my WN flight out of BUR.


Considering they are trying to attract Socal travelers, this anecdote seems to bode quite negatively for their local marketing efforts.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3120
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:46 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Going back to Avelo now, as well as adding on to some of the potential future destinations I listed earlier, do you think it'd be worth their while to look into maybe Hawaii once their -700's come online?

They would need to invest in an ETOPS program.
.......
 
PITFlyer330
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri May 14, 2021 4:56 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:29 am

Wneast wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Looks like they might be entering LAS don’t think that will go well


where did you hear this? any link?

A avelo worker


when will it be announce?
born and raised in PIT. AUS second home. Currently in asia
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:32 am

PITFlyer330 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:

where did you hear this? any link?

A avelo worker


when will it be announce?

I’m hearing new BUR routes and HVN should be announced in the next week
 
jplatts
Posts: 4704
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:30 am

There is enough room at DAL to accommodate XP out of gates 11 and 13 (currently in use by AS) if XP shares gates with AS at DAL since AS currently has plans to operate only 13 daily departures out of DAL.

The City of Dallas does have authority under the Wright Amendment Reform Act and the 5-party agreement to require AS to share gates with XP at DAL if necessary.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5746
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:02 am

Wneast wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
A avelo worker


when will it be announce?

I’m hearing new BUR routes and HVN should be announced in the next week


Hmm...hopefully...but I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:27 am

jmc1975 wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Going back to Avelo now, as well as adding on to some of the potential future destinations I listed earlier, do you think it'd be worth their while to look into maybe Hawaii once their -700's come online?

They would need to invest in an ETOPS program.


Their certificate is already EOW and ETOPS. Xtra used to do a lot of Intl flying.

It would be a matter of making their current 737's conform to their existing ETOPs procedures, mx and operationally.
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:32 am

Varsity1 wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Going back to Avelo now, as well as adding on to some of the potential future destinations I listed earlier, do you think it'd be worth their while to look into maybe Hawaii once their -700's come online?

They would need to invest in an ETOPS program.


Their certificate is already EOW and ETOPS. Xtra used to do a lot of Intl flying.

It would be a matter of making their current 737's conform to their existing ETOPs procedures, mx and operationally.

So what would they have to do would they still go through the etops process ?
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:39 am

ikramerica wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
The real issue I have with the startup was the velocity ... they gave people a month to buy tickets on an airline nobody has ever heard of before. And they have no presence on OTAs at the moment - which makes it next to impossible to reach the average customer who has yet to hear of them.

The concept makes total sense... but the execution has been iffy to say the least, at least from my perspective. Seems to me like they should have held off a few more months and really gone all out on marketing

Despite living nearby I had never heard of Avelo until this morning when I saw a plane at Terminal B from the window of my WN flight out of BUR.


For as long as you’ve been in the industry, and as many posts as you have on this site, and you’re just hearing about them now? Find that hard to believe.
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:40 am

Wneast wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
A avelo worker


when will it be announce?

I’m hearing new BUR routes and HVN should be announced in the next week


Same here. October launch for HVN on track

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