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Wneast
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:42 am

catiii wrote:
Wneast wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:

when will it be announce?

I’m hearing new BUR routes and HVN should be announced in the next week


Same here. October launch for HVN on track

Are you hearing anything about the Additional BUR routes ?
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:07 am

jplatts wrote:
There is enough room at DAL to accommodate XP out of gates 11 and 13 (currently in use by AS) if XP shares gates with AS at DAL since AS currently has plans to operate only 13 daily departures out of DAL.

The City of Dallas does have authority under the Wright Amendment Reform Act and the 5-party agreement to require AS to share gates with XP at DAL if necessary.

Why is this important or related though? XP have not said anything at all about a Dallas hub/station and DAL is already very well-served by WN... much unlike HVN and to a degree BUR as well.
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:36 pm

sfojvjets wrote:
jplatts wrote:
There is enough room at DAL to accommodate XP out of gates 11 and 13 (currently in use by AS) if XP shares gates with AS at DAL since AS currently has plans to operate only 13 daily departures out of DAL.

The City of Dallas does have authority under the Wright Amendment Reform Act and the 5-party agreement to require AS to share gates with XP at DAL if necessary.

Why is this important or related though? XP have not said anything at all about a Dallas hub/station and DAL is already very well-served by WN... much unlike HVN and to a degree BUR as well.


Probably because it’s one of the largest markets in USA. Supposing Avelo actually does plan to adopt the hub and spoke model, I would suppose their Texas hub would be in Houston given the headquarters of the airline, but if it grows as much as Levy says it will, at some point down the line, Dallas would have to be a market.
 
pmanni1
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:37 am

I think in order to survive XP will find that it needs to ultimately serve primary airports. Serving airport pairs where there is just 20-30 PDEW is probably not feasible.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3120
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:03 pm

caribbeanSwag wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
jplatts wrote:
There is enough room at DAL to accommodate XP out of gates 11 and 13 (currently in use by AS) if XP shares gates with AS at DAL since AS currently has plans to operate only 13 daily departures out of DAL.

The City of Dallas does have authority under the Wright Amendment Reform Act and the 5-party agreement to require AS to share gates with XP at DAL if necessary.

Why is this important or related though? XP have not said anything at all about a Dallas hub/station and DAL is already very well-served by WN... much unlike HVN and to a degree BUR as well.


Probably because it’s one of the largest markets in USA. Supposing Avelo actually does plan to adopt the hub and spoke model, I would suppose their Texas hub would be in Houston given the headquarters of the airline, but if it grows as much as Levy says it will, at some point down the line, Dallas would have to be a market.

Suppose the FTW could be an airport that XP could launch from.
.......
 
caribbeanSwag
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:14 am

The 3 Boeing 737-700s orders are finally showing as due. Can’t wait to see their livery.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 343
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:23 am

jplatts wrote:
There is enough room at DAL to accommodate XP out of gates 11 and 13 (currently in use by AS) if XP shares gates with AS at DAL since AS currently has plans to operate only 13 daily departures out of DAL.

The City of Dallas does have authority under the Wright Amendment Reform Act and the 5-party agreement to require AS to share gates with XP at DAL if necessary.

Why expand into DAL?? XP is looking for routes with minimal competition where they can generate their own organic growth. Going into the belly of a beast is not going to work out very well IMHO…..
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
caribbeanSwag
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:08 am

2 of the new Boeing 737-700s are coming from Southwest. The last, I can’t see. And they’re all around 13 years old.
 
Wneast
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:21 am

caribbeanSwag wrote:
2 of the new Boeing 737-700s are coming from Southwest. The last, I can’t see. And they’re all around 13 years old.

You got any insight to announcement of the new routes this week ?
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15173
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:53 am

catiii wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
The real issue I have with the startup was the velocity ... they gave people a month to buy tickets on an airline nobody has ever heard of before. And they have no presence on OTAs at the moment - which makes it next to impossible to reach the average customer who has yet to hear of them.

The concept makes total sense... but the execution has been iffy to say the least, at least from my perspective. Seems to me like they should have held off a few more months and really gone all out on marketing

Despite living nearby I had never heard of Avelo until this morning when I saw a plane at Terminal B from the window of my WN flight out of BUR.


For as long as you’ve been in the industry, and as many posts as you have on this site, and you’re just hearing about them now? Find that hard to believe.

The only reason I am on this thread was because I saw a plane with billboard AVELO titles on the side from my seat after liftoff, and I looked them up and came upon this thread.

I see no billboards anywhere nearby, and I am so local my wife was home in 12 minutes after dropping me at Terminal A.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4676
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:06 am

ikramerica wrote:
catiii wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
Despite living nearby I had never heard of Avelo until this morning when I saw a plane at Terminal B from the window of my WN flight out of BUR.


For as long as you’ve been in the industry, and as many posts as you have on this site, and you’re just hearing about them now? Find that hard to believe.

The only reason I am on this thread was because I saw a plane with billboard AVELO titles on the side from my seat after liftoff, and I looked them up and came upon this thread.

I see no billboards anywhere nearby, and I am so local my wife was home in 12 minutes after dropping me at Terminal A.


I suspect they will increase their advertising and marketing when they mature the operation a bit more. A mistake repeated by every single startup has been ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE when they don’t have the route structure, consistency, or experience to back up their ads. This results in a soured ad campaign. They are well funded being run by pretty experienced people - I imagine as they get more and more comfortable with their operation they will push out some more advertising. It is suicide to advertise something you can’t deliver and that is a big mistake most startups have made. It looks like Avelo is trying to nail down the delivery first; before the put promises up on billboards, internet, and TV spots. Not a bad strategy if you have the funding and don’t need the revenue boost from immediate marketing campaigns.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:09 am

Wneast wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:
2 of the new Boeing 737-700s are coming from Southwest. The last, I can’t see. And they’re all around 13 years old.

You got any insight to announcement of the new routes this week ?


Maybe HVN-LAS? That may be where the LAS service comes from. There is no competition & would compliment other n/s flights that currently operate from that area.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
Wneast
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:10 am

RWA380 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:
2 of the new Boeing 737-700s are coming from Southwest. The last, I can’t see. And they’re all around 13 years old.

You got any insight to announcement of the new routes this week ?


Maybe HVN-LAS? That may be where the LAS service comes from. There is no competition & would compliment other n/s flights that currently operate from that area.

Sure they could try that but I heard once daily to BUR... I guess we will see
 
caribbeanSwag
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:15 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
catiii wrote:

For as long as you’ve been in the industry, and as many posts as you have on this site, and you’re just hearing about them now? Find that hard to believe.

The only reason I am on this thread was because I saw a plane with billboard AVELO titles on the side from my seat after liftoff, and I looked them up and came upon this thread.

I see no billboards anywhere nearby, and I am so local my wife was home in 12 minutes after dropping me at Terminal A.


I suspect they will increase their advertising and marketing when they mature the operation a bit more. A mistake repeated by every single startup has been ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE when they don’t have the route structure, consistency, or experience to back up their ads. This results in a soured ad campaign. They are well funded being run by pretty experienced people - I imagine as they get more and more comfortable with their operation they will push out some more advertising. It is suicide to advertise something you can’t deliver and that is a big mistake most startups have made. It looks like Avelo is trying to nail down the delivery first; before the put promises up on billboards, internet, and TV spots. Not a bad strategy if you have the funding and don’t need the revenue boost from immediate marketing campaigns.


100%. It makes no business sense whatsoever to over promote starting out so early before even being established. If Levy sticks to his plans for a hub and spoke model, it would do better marketing a few years down.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:21 am

Wneast wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
You got any insight to announcement of the new routes this week ?


Maybe HVN-LAS? That may be where the LAS service comes from. There is no competition & would compliment other n/s flights that currently operate from that area.

Sure they could try that but I heard once daily to BUR... I guess we will see


Suicidal then, I'd think HVN would provide better yields. But XP needs to add low hanging, close vicinity routes & cut risky 2+ hour flights at the end of the summer. But even since I lived in LA in the late 80's, there is an almost insatiable thirst for Vegas tourism & it's a long 5-7 hour drive, IIRC. IF, XP can win the support of the locals around BUR, they could very well have something there.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
Wneast
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:29 am

RWA380 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Maybe HVN-LAS? That may be where the LAS service comes from. There is no competition & would compliment other n/s flights that currently operate from that area.

Sure they could try that but I heard once daily to BUR... I guess we will see


Suicidal then, I'd think HVN would provide better yields. But XP needs to add low hanging, close vicinity routes & cut risky 2+ hour flights at the end of the summer. But even since I lived in LA in the late 80's, there is an almost insatiable thirst for Vegas tourism & it's a long 5-7 hour drive, IIRC. IF, XP can win the support of the locals around BUR, they could very well have something there.

Yeah we will see with already a lot of frequency to LAS on WN knowing them it will go up if more trying to drown out avelo
 
caribbeanSwag
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:34 am

Wneast wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Sure they could try that but I heard once daily to BUR... I guess we will see


Suicidal then, I'd think HVN would provide better yields. But XP needs to add low hanging, close vicinity routes & cut risky 2+ hour flights at the end of the summer. But even since I lived in LA in the late 80's, there is an almost insatiable thirst for Vegas tourism & it's a long 5-7 hour drive, IIRC. IF, XP can win the support of the locals around BUR, they could very well have something there.

Yeah we will see with already a lot of frequency to LAS on WN knowing them it will go up if more trying to drown out avelo


LAS is a unique market though. Even though it may seem saturated, it’s the easiest destination to market.
 
Wneast
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:39 am

caribbeanSwag wrote:
Wneast wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Suicidal then, I'd think HVN would provide better yields. But XP needs to add low hanging, close vicinity routes & cut risky 2+ hour flights at the end of the summer. But even since I lived in LA in the late 80's, there is an almost insatiable thirst for Vegas tourism & it's a long 5-7 hour drive, IIRC. IF, XP can win the support of the locals around BUR, they could very well have something there.

Yeah we will see with already a lot of frequency to LAS on WN knowing them it will go up if more trying to drown out avelo


LAS is a unique market though. Even though it may seem saturated, it’s the easiest destination to market.

Is there other markets that they could add like LAS ?
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:49 am

caribbeanSwag wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
The only reason I am on this thread was because I saw a plane with billboard AVELO titles on the side from my seat after liftoff, and I looked them up and came upon this thread.

I see no billboards anywhere nearby, and I am so local my wife was home in 12 minutes after dropping me at Terminal A.


I suspect they will increase their advertising and marketing when they mature the operation a bit more. A mistake repeated by every single startup has been ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE when they don’t have the route structure, consistency, or experience to back up their ads. This results in a soured ad campaign. They are well funded being run by pretty experienced people - I imagine as they get more and more comfortable with their operation they will push out some more advertising. It is suicide to advertise something you can’t deliver and that is a big mistake most startups have made. It looks like Avelo is trying to nail down the delivery first; before the put promises up on billboards, internet, and TV spots. Not a bad strategy if you have the funding and don’t need the revenue boost from immediate marketing campaigns.


100%. It makes no business sense whatsoever to over promote starting out so early before even being established. If Levy sticks to his plans for a hub and spoke model, it would do better marketing a few years down.


Exactly. You want people’s first reaction to be “wow, that was a great trip. I can’t believe I have never heard of them before. I’m going to tell Jeff,
Omar, and Maria at the office about this! ” Instead of “hey honey, I saw a billboard for this Avelo airlines? I don’t know their reviews are mixed, but the fares are cheap? Well the hotel and resort were expensive let’s just book United or Delta we can’t risk losing our reservations”

(Or whatever). Deliver first, advertise it second.
 
MavyWavyATR
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:55 am

caribbeanSwag wrote:
2 of the new Boeing 737-700s are coming from Southwest. The last, I can’t see. And they’re all around 13 years old.


Thought maybe they'd try to get their hands on the ex DL frames, considering those have better performance options.
 
Nonrevhell
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:13 am

caribbeanSwag wrote:
Wneast wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Suicidal then, I'd think HVN would provide better yields. But XP needs to add low hanging, close vicinity routes & cut risky 2+ hour flights at the end of the summer. But even since I lived in LA in the late 80's, there is an almost insatiable thirst for Vegas tourism & it's a long 5-7 hour drive, IIRC. IF, XP can win the support of the locals around BUR, they could very well have something there.

Yeah we will see with already a lot of frequency to LAS on WN knowing them it will go up if more trying to drown out avelo


LAS is a unique market though. Even though it may seem saturated, it’s the easiest destination to market.


I remember, for a time while Southwest and America West were slugging it out from Phoenix to Vegas, the smart travelers flew the once a day flight on TWA's L1011 that did a JFK-PHX-LAS wrap, very cheap, and a widebody. I can't see any scenario where Avelo can make money flying to Vegas from anywhere on leased 737's. Saturated market that will be met with strong competition from the big guys and from the ULCC's.
 
Wneast
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:16 am

Nonrevhell wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Yeah we will see with already a lot of frequency to LAS on WN knowing them it will go up if more trying to drown out avelo


LAS is a unique market though. Even though it may seem saturated, it’s the easiest destination to market.


I remember, for a time while Southwest and America West were slugging it out from Phoenix to Vegas, the smart travelers flew the once a day flight on TWA's L1011 that did a JFK-PHX-LAS wrap, very cheap, and a widebody. I can't see any scenario where Avelo can make money flying to Vegas from anywhere on leased 737's. Saturated market that will be met with strong competition from the big guys and from the ULCC's.

Me either WN and the other carriers can clobber them even if they offer cheap fares
 
rbavfan
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: United Former CFO to Launch a New U.S. Budget Airline

Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:09 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Guesses as for routes:

Houston to
- DAL
- LGB/ONT
- CLE
- PBI
- COS
- MEM
- RIC
- GYY


This seems to be like the type of airline to operate the secondary markets, so COS, LGB, PBI, GYY, and RIC seem to make sense. The rest are dehubbed airports or local (dal).


Good luck getting into DAL.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2373
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: United Former CFO to Launch a New U.S. Budget Airline

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:58 pm

rbavfan wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Guesses as for routes:

Houston to
- DAL
- LGB/ONT
- CLE
- PBI
- COS
- MEM
- RIC
- GYY


This seems to be like the type of airline to operate the secondary markets, so COS, LGB, PBI, GYY, and RIC seem to make sense. The rest are dehubbed airports or local (dal).


Good luck getting into DAL.


I'm surprised SNA isn't on that list as well.
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:32 pm

Here’s a tweet with images of Avelo’s newly painted trio of Boeing 737-700s

https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/141 ... 26447?s=21
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5273
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:16 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

I suspect they will increase their advertising and marketing when they mature the operation a bit more. A mistake repeated by every single startup has been ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE when they don’t have the route structure, consistency, or experience to back up their ads. This results in a soured ad campaign. They are well funded being run by pretty experienced people - I imagine as they get more and more comfortable with their operation they will push out some more advertising. It is suicide to advertise something you can’t deliver and that is a big mistake most startups have made. It looks like Avelo is trying to nail down the delivery first; before the put promises up on billboards, internet, and TV spots. Not a bad strategy if you have the funding and don’t need the revenue boost from immediate marketing campaigns.


100%. It makes no business sense whatsoever to over promote starting out so early before even being established. If Levy sticks to his plans for a hub and spoke model, it would do better marketing a few years down.


Exactly. You want people’s first reaction to be “wow, that was a great trip. I can’t believe I have never heard of them before. I’m going to tell Jeff,
Omar, and Maria at the office about this! ” Instead of “hey honey, I saw a billboard for this Avelo airlines? I don’t know their reviews are mixed, but the fares are cheap? Well the hotel and resort were expensive let’s just book United or Delta we can’t risk losing our reservations”

(Or whatever). Deliver first, advertise it second.



Additionally, Andrew Levy was at Allegiant after 2001, during G4's post-bankruptcy change of business model. Shifting/dropping routes and schedules, city choices, etc were criticized in the early Allegiant days also.

During those early years G4 did little advertising instead relying on word of mouth and the free media coverage in the smaller cities. In the small cities new airline service/routes, especially on mainline aircraft, is a bigger deal than in the larger markets.

My guess is Levy is starting Avelo the same way. Let those in smaller cities talk about the company. They will also spread the word to friends, family and customers in the larger metro area at the other end (coming up to see us, check out this airline). Try different routes to see what works with the product to help with future planning.

Whether Avelo works we will see. But I do already see some similar moves.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
nine4nine
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:25 pm

They have been doing heavy marketing here in the LA radio market. I know in particular they advertise nearly every commercial break on KFI AM640 and sponsor the traffic report. “Traffic report brought to you by Avelo Air”. The name is getting out there. They also are marketing a 500 ticket giveaway to anywhere they fly by visiting the website
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
caribbeanSwag
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:50 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:

100%. It makes no business sense whatsoever to over promote starting out so early before even being established. If Levy sticks to his plans for a hub and spoke model, it would do better marketing a few years down.


Exactly. You want people’s first reaction to be “wow, that was a great trip. I can’t believe I have never heard of them before. I’m going to tell Jeff,
Omar, and Maria at the office about this! ” Instead of “hey honey, I saw a billboard for this Avelo airlines? I don’t know their reviews are mixed, but the fares are cheap? Well the hotel and resort were expensive let’s just book United or Delta we can’t risk losing our reservations”

(Or whatever). Deliver first, advertise it second.



Additionally, Andrew Levy was at Allegiant after 2001, during G4's post-bankruptcy change of business model. Shifting/dropping routes and schedules, city choices, etc were criticized in the early Allegiant days also.

During those early years G4 did little advertising instead relying on word of mouth and the free media coverage in the smaller cities. In the small cities new airline service/routes, especially on mainline aircraft, is a bigger deal than in the larger markets.

My guess is Levy is starting Avelo the same way. Let those in smaller cities talk about the company. They will also spread the word to friends, family and customers in the larger metro area at the other end (coming up to see us, check out this airline). Try different routes to see what works with the product to help with future planning.

Whether Avelo works we will see. But I do already see some similar moves.


Great take. It’s definitely not a guaranteed success. Perhaps it won’t, but perhaps it will. These criticisms of its lack of advertising particularly because it don’t make sense because you don’t want to market on a major scale until you have the product to provide. Starting out with a fleet of just 3, you especially don’t want to over market. With 6 confirmed airplanes (3 737-800s and 3 700s) within the coming months, it would still be too early to market.

And as mentioned above, Levy seems to be attempting a Ryanair model based on interviews, and it’s not at the point to where the current system looks like what it will in the long run.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5639
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:58 pm

caribbeanSwag wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

Exactly. You want people’s first reaction to be “wow, that was a great trip. I can’t believe I have never heard of them before. I’m going to tell Jeff,
Omar, and Maria at the office about this! ” Instead of “hey honey, I saw a billboard for this Avelo airlines? I don’t know their reviews are mixed, but the fares are cheap? Well the hotel and resort were expensive let’s just book United or Delta we can’t risk losing our reservations”

(Or whatever). Deliver first, advertise it second.



Additionally, Andrew Levy was at Allegiant after 2001, during G4's post-bankruptcy change of business model. Shifting/dropping routes and schedules, city choices, etc were criticized in the early Allegiant days also.

During those early years G4 did little advertising instead relying on word of mouth and the free media coverage in the smaller cities. In the small cities new airline service/routes, especially on mainline aircraft, is a bigger deal than in the larger markets.

My guess is Levy is starting Avelo the same way. Let those in smaller cities talk about the company. They will also spread the word to friends, family and customers in the larger metro area at the other end (coming up to see us, check out this airline). Try different routes to see what works with the product to help with future planning.

Whether Avelo works we will see. But I do already see some similar moves.


Great take. It’s definitely not a guaranteed success. Perhaps it won’t, but perhaps it will. These criticisms of its lack of advertising particularly because it don’t make sense because you don’t want to market on a major scale until you have the product to provide. Starting out with a fleet of just 3, you especially don’t want to over market. With 6 confirmed airplanes (3 737-800s and 3 700s) within the coming months, it would still be too early to market.

And as mentioned above, Levy seems to be attempting a Ryanair model based on interviews, and it’s not at the point to where the current system looks like what it will in the long run.

The Ryan air model is tough in the USA cus all the majors operate the Ryan air model with advanced purchases and basic economy now.
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:23 am

STS-LAS is loaded in
 
MavyWavyATR
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:19 am

Wneast wrote:
STS-LAS is loaded in


Santa Rosa to Vegas...this is like the 3rd time someone's tried that (previous two: G4 & SY for those keeping score).
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:20 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
STS-LAS is loaded in


Santa Rosa to Vegas...this is like the 3rd time someone's tried that (previous two: G4 & SY for those keeping score).
yeah I heard that maybe it will work third times the charm. I think we are hearing about more BUR and the HVN routes tomorrow?
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:34 pm

RWA380 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:
2 of the new Boeing 737-700s are coming from Southwest. The last, I can’t see. And they’re all around 13 years old.

You got any insight to announcement of the new routes this week ?


Maybe HVN-LAS? That may be where the LAS service comes from. There is no competition


There is no competition to anywhere out of HVN...
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:35 pm

catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
You got any insight to announcement of the new routes this week ?


Maybe HVN-LAS? That may be where the LAS service comes from. There is no competition


There is no competition to anywhere out of HVN...

No HVN today ?
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:49 pm

The success of the Santa Rosa flight will be exclusive to whether or not the “north bay” region adapts to flying out of there. I see United is now launching a STS-SFO flight so this says a lot. As of now, Avelo is a marketing Santa Rosa as the Bay Area.
 
tichydev
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:33 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:37 pm

Rumor here is HVN will start as an average of 4 daily flights. I would guess Orlando Daily and a mix of other sub daily routes.
 
airlineworker
Posts: 376
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:13 pm

tichydev wrote:
Rumor here is HVN will start as an average of 4 daily flights. I would guess Orlando Daily and a mix of other sub daily routes.


Sweet, this will be HVN's first LCC. The 737-700's did well off EYW's 5100 foot runway, gotta say real flat approaches. Still waiting to hear when the threshold on runway 20 will be moved back. It's been about 8 months since the last tree in the flight path was cut down, FAA slow to certify. Any starting date?
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:41 pm

airlineworker wrote:
tichydev wrote:
Rumor here is HVN will start as an average of 4 daily flights. I would guess Orlando Daily and a mix of other sub daily routes.


Sweet, this will be HVN's first LCC. The 737-700's did well off EYW's 5100 foot runway, gotta say real flat approaches. Still waiting to hear when the threshold on runway 20 will be moved back. It's been about 8 months since the last tree in the flight path was cut down, FAA slow to certify. Any starting date?


No starting date yet. Rumors are that they’re announcing HVN routes this week, but it’s already Thursday so we’ll see. Avelo’s IG page promised “we are revealing HVN routes very soon, stay tuned”, but that’s about it. The 737-700s have been spotted in full livery though so that’s good.
 
caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:53 pm

New topic: Avelo is trying to market Santa Rosa as the “Bay Area”. I get it’s somewhat close, but close enough to work? Burbank is easily LA. Ogden is just good enough to be SLC. And although New Haven is kind of far from Manhattan, it’s a lot more accessible to NYC plus the population in that area is just much larger.

But Santa Rosa as the “Greater Bay Area” hmmm. Not so sure.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5741
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:15 pm

caribbeanSwag wrote:
New topic: Avelo is trying to market Santa Rosa as the “Bay Area”. I get it’s somewhat close, but close enough to work? Burbank is easily LA. Ogden is just good enough to be SLC. And although New Haven is kind of far from Manhattan, it’s a lot more accessible to NYC plus the population in that area is just much larger.

But Santa Rosa as the “Greater Bay Area” hmmm. Not so sure.


Well, Napa and Sonoma are still considered as the North Bay along with Marin County.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5741
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:16 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
STS-LAS is loaded in


Santa Rosa to Vegas...this is like the 3rd time someone's tried that (previous two: G4 & SY for those keeping score).


Fourth time, QX flew STS-LAS using Q400's.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5741
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:22 pm

caribbeanSwag wrote:
The success of the Santa Rosa flight will be exclusive to whether or not the “north bay” region adapts to flying out of there. I see United is now launching a STS-SFO flight so this says a lot. As of now, Avelo is a marketing Santa Rosa as the Bay Area.


This would be at least the 2nd relaunch of SFO-STS... they relaunched SFO-STS prior to the pandemic using CRJ aircraft. Even prior to that, SFO-STS, WestAir (UA Express) used prop aircraft on the route.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:26 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
STS-LAS is loaded in


Santa Rosa to Vegas...this is like the 3rd time someone's tried that (previous two: G4 & SY for those keeping score).


Fourth time, QX flew STS-LAS using Q400's.


It'll be curious to see if AS takes a jab at XP @ STS with a quick E-175 add to LAS. We will see if corporate strategy & common sense, wins out over a tit for tat add.
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caribbeanSwag
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:10 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:
New topic: Avelo is trying to market Santa Rosa as the “Bay Area”. I get it’s somewhat close, but close enough to work? Burbank is easily LA. Ogden is just good enough to be SLC. And although New Haven is kind of far from Manhattan, it’s a lot more accessible to NYC plus the population in that area is just much larger.

But Santa Rosa as the “Greater Bay Area” hmmm. Not so sure.


Well, Napa and Sonoma are still considered as the North Bay along with Marin County.


How accessible is it to the Bay? I know in New Haven, you can easily hop on a train non stop to Penn Station.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5741
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:22 am

RWA380 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:

Santa Rosa to Vegas...this is like the 3rd time someone's tried that (previous two: G4 & SY for those keeping score).


Fourth time, QX flew STS-LAS using Q400's.


It'll be curious to see if AS takes a jab at XP @ STS with a quick E-175 add to LAS. We will see if corporate strategy & common sense, wins out over a tit for tat add.


I wouldn't be the least-bit surprised if AS jumps in. Afterall, they've flown the route before.
 
sfojvjets
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:32 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:
The success of the Santa Rosa flight will be exclusive to whether or not the “north bay” region adapts to flying out of there. I see United is now launching a STS-SFO flight so this says a lot. As of now, Avelo is a marketing Santa Rosa as the Bay Area.


This would be at least the 2nd relaunch of SFO-STS... they relaunched SFO-STS prior to the pandemic using CRJ aircraft. Even prior to that, SFO-STS, WestAir (UA Express) used prop aircraft on the route.

I'm not sure why anyone is talking about a relaunch. STS has been regularly served from SFO for quite a while now. It was *never* a covid cut, it was simply suspended due to covid and will continue to be that way until it resumes in under 3 weeks. Look at MRY, another UA covid suspension from SFO. That's the same story - it was suspended in spring 2020 due to obvious reasons and now is primed to resume on the same date as STS, on August 1st. These destinations are totally drivable and instead rely wholly on connecting traffic over SFO, and since UA dismantled a lot of the bank structure and reduced flights during covid, it simply didn't make sense to continue these ones while demand was still low. These are simply "routine" covid suspensions that will be back starting August 1st.
 
Nonrevhell
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:18 am

Wow, stupid move for Avelo, you can't make money going from Santa Rosa to Vegas, especially if you are that small, and are leasing a plane. Just flush some more money down the drain...
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2495
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:51 am

Nonrevhell wrote:
Wow, stupid move for Avelo, you can't make money going from Santa Rosa to Vegas, especially if you are that small, and are leasing a plane. Just flush some more money down the drain...


Avelo price point could be just the ticket to drawl those wanting a cheap Vegas weekend trip but dread the horrible drive to SFO,OAK or SMF.
I honestly don’t think Avelo has to worry about AS in the STS(North Bay)-LAS market but rather how much WN will flood the market SMF/OAK with cheaper fares to LAS.

It’s been talked about quite a bit that WN had recently been looking at STS as part of its California strong play against AS. Now with Avelo in BUR now LAS the new WN could easily drop 3 flights into STS to curb AS and kill Avelo.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
alasizon
Posts: 3034
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:01 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Nonrevhell wrote:
Wow, stupid move for Avelo, you can't make money going from Santa Rosa to Vegas, especially if you are that small, and are leasing a plane. Just flush some more money down the drain...


Avelo price point could be just the ticket to drawl those wanting a cheap Vegas weekend trip but dread the horrible drive to SFO,OAK or SMF.
I honestly don’t think Avelo has to worry about AS in the STS(North Bay)-LAS market but rather how much WN will flood the market SMF/OAK with cheaper fares to LAS.

It’s been talked about quite a bit that WN had recently been looking at STS as part of its California strong play against AS. Now with Avelo in BUR now LAS the new WN could easily drop 3 flights into STS to curb AS and kill Avelo.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy


No way WN currently fits into the STS operation - it is literally bursting at the seams until the terminal upgrades are complete - Avelo has had to hold several times for a gate due to lack of gate availability.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15173
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Avelo Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:02 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
catiii wrote:

For as long as you’ve been in the industry, and as many posts as you have on this site, and you’re just hearing about them now? Find that hard to believe.

The only reason I am on this thread was because I saw a plane with billboard AVELO titles on the side from my seat after liftoff, and I looked them up and came upon this thread.

I see no billboards anywhere nearby, and I am so local my wife was home in 12 minutes after dropping me at Terminal A.


I suspect they will increase their advertising and marketing when they mature the operation a bit more. A mistake repeated by every single startup has been ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE when they don’t have the route structure, consistency, or experience to back up their ads. This results in a soured ad campaign. They are well funded being run by pretty experienced people - I imagine as they get more and more comfortable with their operation they will push out some more advertising. It is suicide to advertise something you can’t deliver and that is a big mistake most startups have made. It looks like Avelo is trying to nail down the delivery first; before the put promises up on billboards, internet, and TV spots. Not a bad strategy if you have the funding and don’t need the revenue boost from immediate marketing campaigns.

Tempering expectations seems okay as a strategy but how are they getting customers? Social media ad buys?

Can’t see package travel or business contracts considering their routes and frequency.

Are they focusing more on people from the fringe markets wanting to get to LA being the main customers at first? I can’t see that as a strong argument as what do they do when they get here? Uber everywhere? Pay lots for a rental? These are people who live in areas where they are simply used to driving long distances.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.

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