JAGMedia wrote:

n471wn wrote:

Does anyone know why N802XT has been sitting at San Bernardino for the last 3 weeks?

Chatted with an Avelo ramper who said 802 was at SBD for heavy maint.

Thanks for this update.

Looks like Avelo is finally pulling out of OGD (Ogden, UT). Mostly citing the rise in high fuel. This will leave OGD with no commercial air service. G4 left in April.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50417053/la ... al-flights

I thought someone here said that BUR-OGD was their best performing route out of the BUR network? I didn’t think airlines cut money-making routes…

sea13 wrote:

Looks like Avelo is finally pulling out of OGD (Ogden, UT). Mostly citing the rise in high fuel. This will leave OGD with no commercial air service. G4 left in April.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50417053/la ... al-flights

I thought someone here said that BUR-OGD was their best performing route out of the BUR network? I didn’t think airlines cut money-making routes…

That was me, based on their Feb 22 performance, in terms of butts on seats it was averaging over 80%, that doesn’t necessarily translate into money making if the income wasn’t enough. Sadly XP didn’t submit their Jan numbers to DOT or at least they weren’t uploaded at time of recording the Feb ones, so I couldn’t see a trend. You would like that 80% would make them money, but maybe not if OGD was expensive and especially after the fuel prices went up.
So it’s a strange decision, but if the economics weren’t there then fair enough. You can fill planes but if you aren’t making enough revenue to cover the costs it’s never going to work sadly.

VS4ever wrote:

sea13 wrote:

Looks like Avelo is finally pulling out of OGD (Ogden, UT). Mostly citing the rise in high fuel. This will leave OGD with no commercial air service. G4 left in April.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50417053/la ... al-flights

I thought someone here said that BUR-OGD was their best performing route out of the BUR network? I didn’t think airlines cut money-making routes…

That was me, based on their Feb 22 performance, in terms of butts on seats it was averaging over 80%, that doesn’t necessarily translate into money making if the income wasn’t enough. Sadly XP didn’t submit their Jan numbers to DOT or at least they weren’t uploaded at time of recording the Feb ones, so I couldn’t see a trend. You would like that 80% would make them money, but maybe not if OGD was expensive and especially after the fuel prices went up.
So it’s a strange decision, but if the economics weren’t there then fair enough. You can fill planes but if you aren’t making enough revenue to cover the costs it’s never going to work sadly.

That makes sense. Thanks for the reply. Avelo will also be dropping BUR-FNL.

sea13 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

sea13 wrote:

Looks like Avelo is finally pulling out of OGD (Ogden, UT). Mostly citing the rise in high fuel. This will leave OGD with no commercial air service. G4 left in April.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50417053/la ... al-flights

I thought someone here said that BUR-OGD was their best performing route out of the BUR network? I didn’t think airlines cut money-making routes…

That was me, based on their Feb 22 performance, in terms of butts on seats it was averaging over 80%, that doesn’t necessarily translate into money making if the income wasn’t enough. Sadly XP didn’t submit their Jan numbers to DOT or at least they weren’t uploaded at time of recording the Feb ones, so I couldn’t see a trend. You would like that 80% would make them money, but maybe not if OGD was expensive and especially after the fuel prices went up.
So it’s a strange decision, but if the economics weren’t there then fair enough. You can fill planes but if you aren’t making enough revenue to cover the costs it’s never going to work sadly.

That makes sense. Thanks for the reply. Avelo will also be dropping BUR-FNL.

Looking over the same data much less surprising given Feb 22 only showed 40% loads

VS4ever wrote:

sea13 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

That was me, based on their Feb 22 performance, in terms of butts on seats it was averaging over 80%, that doesn’t necessarily translate into money making if the income wasn’t enough. Sadly XP didn’t submit their Jan numbers to DOT or at least they weren’t uploaded at time of recording the Feb ones, so I couldn’t see a trend. You would like that 80% would make them money, but maybe not if OGD was expensive and especially after the fuel prices went up.
So it’s a strange decision, but if the economics weren’t there then fair enough. You can fill planes but if you aren’t making enough revenue to cover the costs it’s never going to work sadly.

That makes sense. Thanks for the reply. Avelo will also be dropping BUR-FNL.

Looking over the same data much less surprising given Feb 22 only showed 40% loads

Makes sense. OGD never made sense to me. Overall I wonder if Avelo will be at BUR long term. I think they’ll be down to a handful of routes once OGD and FNL are gone. Also their LAS station is shrinking.

Just checked BUR and HVN routes and HVN has 14, BUR 10. More daily flights out of HVN than BUR. I wonder if BUR cities are too small to serve, especially since BUR has 737-800's whereas HVN has the 737-700's. I don't remember how many flights Avelo had at BUR when it first started the service.

Finally the fourth 738 got announced. Wonder if it’ll be based at BUR or MCO.

airlineworker wrote:

Just checked BUR and HVN routes and HVN has 14, BUR 10. More daily flights out of HVN than BUR. I wonder if BUR cities are too small to serve, especially since BUR has 737-800's whereas HVN has the 737-700's. I don't remember how many flights Avelo had at BUR when it first started the service.

BUR will be down to eight routes by the end of this month once FNL and OGD are gone. I think Avelo’s BUR operation is toast.

sea13 wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

Just checked BUR and HVN routes and HVN has 14, BUR 10. More daily flights out of HVN than BUR. I wonder if BUR cities are too small to serve, especially since BUR has 737-800's whereas HVN has the 737-700's. I don't remember how many flights Avelo had at BUR when it first started the service.

BUR will be down to eight routes by the end of this month once FNL and OGD are gone. I think Avelo’s BUR operation is toast.

BUR is toast because they dropped 2 routes?

sea13 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

sea13 wrote:

That makes sense. Thanks for the reply. Avelo will also be dropping BUR-FNL.

Looking over the same data much less surprising given Feb 22 only showed 40% loads

Makes sense. OGD never made sense to me. Overall I wonder if Avelo will be at BUR long term. I think they’ll be down to a handful of routes once OGD and FNL are gone. Also their LAS station is shrinking.

They haven’t formally had a base in Vegas. Just a number of flights there which is expected from a leisure heavy airline.

flyoregon wrote:

sea13 wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

Just checked BUR and HVN routes and HVN has 14, BUR 10. More daily flights out of HVN than BUR. I wonder if BUR cities are too small to serve, especially since BUR has 737-800's whereas HVN has the 737-700's. I don't remember how many flights Avelo had at BUR when it first started the service.

BUR will be down to eight routes by the end of this month once FNL and OGD are gone. I think Avelo’s BUR operation is toast.

BUR is toast because they dropped 2 routes?

You need to look at the full picture. Many routes have either been drastically reduced, dropped or never began service after an official announcement. Off the top of my head these are Bozeman, Monterey, Provo, Grand Junction, Ft. Collins, Ogden, St. George, Tucson, Mesa/Phoenix. Hardly just 2 routes…

KarlB737 wrote:

NJFlyer27 wrote:

I think Avelo is very happy Frontier left ILG................

Courtesy: USA Today

Delaware Will Be The Only State Without Commercial Airline Service After Frontier Airlines' Exit

"After Frontier completes its final flight on June 6, Delaware will once again be the only state without commercial airline service."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2022/05/13/frontier-airlines-exit-leaves-delaware-without-commercial-flights/9767653002/

Well will Avelo in fact enter ILG now that Frontier is gone?

sea13 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

sea13 wrote:

BUR will be down to eight routes by the end of this month once FNL and OGD are gone. I think Avelo’s BUR operation is toast.

BUR is toast because they dropped 2 routes?

You need to look at the full picture. Many routes have either been drastically reduced, dropped or never began service after an official announcement. Off the top of my head these are Bozeman, Monterey, Provo, Grand Junction, Ft. Collins, Ogden, St. George, Tucson, Mesa/Phoenix. Hardly just 2 routes…

Spokane too!

TexasAirCorp wrote:

sea13 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

BUR is toast because they dropped 2 routes?

You need to look at the full picture. Many routes have either been drastically reduced, dropped or never began service after an official announcement. Off the top of my head these are Bozeman, Monterey, Provo, Grand Junction, Ft. Collins, Ogden, St. George, Tucson, Mesa/Phoenix. Hardly just 2 routes…

Spokane too!

My point exactly. That’s 10 routes either dropped or never started. Keep in mind they began service barley a year ago. I’ll be surprised to see Avelo at BUR this time next year. The current routes to PSC, EUG, STS, etc., I would think can’t be bringing in many passengers or drawing that much demand. If OGD did have the best passenger loads, and it got dropped, than nothing is safe IMO.

So to clear up BUR... I have all the load data from the T-100 from may 21 thru Feb 22 (March numbers are out, but XP reports were not included)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

But you can see very clearly why certain routes were dropped, OGD is definitely the odd ball from that.

My friend who is a ramp agent at OGD said it is due to the high gas prices at the airport. OGD is getting a new terminal renovation soon and hopes to attract new service, sad to see Avelo leave but maybe they can come back one day.

SLCaviation wrote:

My friend who is a ramp agent at OGD said it is due to the high gas prices at the airport. OGD is getting a new terminal renovation soon and hopes to attract new service, sad to see Avelo leave but maybe they can come back one day.

Even with a renovated terminal I doubt any airline will be back to OGD.

IMO PVU is growing just crazy fast and OGD probably lost all service permanently. Maybe Avelo will add PVU again…

SLCaviation wrote:

IMO PVU is growing just crazy fast and OGD probably lost all service permanently. Maybe Avelo will add PVU again…

Avelo didn’t even start Provo in the first place, and now there will be more competition. Why would adding PVU again be a good idea?

flyoregon wrote:

SLCaviation wrote:

IMO PVU is growing just crazy fast and OGD probably lost all service permanently. Maybe Avelo will add PVU again…

Avelo didn’t even start Provo in the first place, and now there will be more competition. Why would adding PVU again be a good idea?

Agree. I don’t think Avelo will ever try PVU again.

I honestly wonder if Avelo will keep BUR long term. BUR didn’t make sense as their LA area airport. I thought LGB made more sense. It’s closer to the popular beach towns and Disneyland, Knotts, etc.

sea13 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

SLCaviation wrote:

IMO PVU is growing just crazy fast and OGD probably lost all service permanently. Maybe Avelo will add PVU again…

Avelo didn’t even start Provo in the first place, and now there will be more competition. Why would adding PVU again be a good idea?

Agree. I don’t think Avelo will ever try PVU again.

I honestly wonder if Avelo will keep BUR long term. BUR didn’t make sense as their LA area airport. I thought LGB made more sense. It’s closer to the popular beach towns and Disneyland, Knotts, etc.

They would need multiple slots at LGB in order for that to work and SWA took a lot of the slots that were up for grabs

Delta28L wrote:

sea13 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

Avelo didn’t even start Provo in the first place, and now there will be more competition. Why would adding PVU again be a good idea?

Agree. I don’t think Avelo will ever try PVU again.

I honestly wonder if Avelo will keep BUR long term. BUR didn’t make sense as their LA area airport. I thought LGB made more sense. It’s closer to the popular beach towns and Disneyland, Knotts, etc.

They would need multiple slots at LGB in order for that to work and SWA took a lot of the slots that were up for grabs

How about ONT? SNA no way as is LGB.

sea13 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

SLCaviation wrote:

IMO PVU is growing just crazy fast and OGD probably lost all service permanently. Maybe Avelo will add PVU again…

Avelo didn’t even start Provo in the first place, and now there will be more competition. Why would adding PVU again be a good idea?

Agree. I don’t think Avelo will ever try PVU again.

I honestly wonder if Avelo will keep BUR long term. BUR didn’t make sense as their LA area airport. I thought LGB made more sense. It’s closer to the popular beach towns and Disneyland, Knotts, etc.

BUR makes some sense as an alternative to LAX; its far closer to the city than ONT/SNA, however as you say it's much further away from the touristy areas that most pax Avelo is targeting would want to go (other than Hollywood). The reason Avelo went for BUR is because it has little domestic competition, especially to secondary markets, however I think they're now beginning to understand why it has so little service.

LGB would make sense however trying to establish a decent presence there in a relatively short period of time is impossible with the slot restrictions. IMHO Avelo would be best placed at SNA, yes it's more competitive, however it has better access to the areas mentioned above, and isn't too far from LA itself.

TexasAirCorp wrote:

sea13 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

Avelo didn’t even start Provo in the first place, and now there will be more competition. Why would adding PVU again be a good idea?

Agree. I don’t think Avelo will ever try PVU again.

I honestly wonder if Avelo will keep BUR long term. BUR didn’t make sense as their LA area airport. I thought LGB made more sense. It’s closer to the popular beach towns and Disneyland, Knotts, etc.

BUR makes some sense as an alternative to LAX; its far closer to the city than ONT/SNA, however as you say it's much further away from the touristy areas that most pax Avelo is targeting would want to go (other than Hollywood). The reason Avelo went for BUR is because it has little domestic competition, especially to secondary markets, however I think they're now beginning to understand why it has so little service.

LGB would make sense however trying to establish a decent presence there in a relatively short period of time is impossible with the slot restrictions. IMHO Avelo would be best placed at SNA, yes it's more competitive, however it has better access to the areas mentioned above, and isn't too far from LA itself.

Doesn't SNA have slots or a fixed number of daily flights?

So what’s up with the MCO base doesn’t it open soon? More flights ?

TexasAirCorp wrote:

sea13 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

Avelo didn’t even start Provo in the first place, and now there will be more competition. Why would adding PVU again be a good idea?

Agree. I don’t think Avelo will ever try PVU again.

I honestly wonder if Avelo will keep BUR long term. BUR didn’t make sense as their LA area airport. I thought LGB made more sense. It’s closer to the popular beach towns and Disneyland, Knotts, etc.

BUR makes some sense as an alternative to LAX; its far closer to the city than ONT/SNA, however as you say it's much further away from the touristy areas that most pax Avelo is targeting would want to go (other than Hollywood). The reason Avelo went for BUR is because it has little domestic competition, especially to secondary markets, however I think they're now beginning to understand why it has so little service.

LGB would make sense however trying to establish a decent presence there in a relatively short period of time is impossible with the slot restrictions. IMHO Avelo would be best placed at SNA, yes it's more competitive, however it has better access to the areas mentioned above, and isn't too far from LA itself.

With LGB and SNA have their own type of restrictions, maybe LAX would’ve been the best option. But that’s questionable as well

I think Avelo starting ops on the west coast was the wrong move. They should’ve started their business connecting the northeast to Florida.

Wneast wrote:

So what’s up with the MCO base doesn’t it open soon? More flights ?

I wonder if the new 738 will be stationed at MCO

airlineworker wrote:

Delta28L wrote:

sea13 wrote:

Agree. I don’t think Avelo will ever try PVU again.

I honestly wonder if Avelo will keep BUR long term. BUR didn’t make sense as their LA area airport. I thought LGB made more sense. It’s closer to the popular beach towns and Disneyland, Knotts, etc.

They would need multiple slots at LGB in order for that to work and SWA took a lot of the slots that were up for grabs

How about ONT? SNA no way as is LGB.

ONT is pretty much all taken. The only other possibility might be SBD but that might be taken up by breeze

Cardude2 wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

Delta28L wrote:

They would need multiple slots at LGB in order for that to work and SWA took a lot of the slots that were up for grabs

How about ONT? SNA no way as is LGB.

ONT is pretty much all taken. The only other possibility might be SBD but that might be taken up by breeze

How is ONT full from WN ?

airlineworker wrote:

TexasAirCorp wrote:

sea13 wrote:

Agree. I don’t think Avelo will ever try PVU again.

I honestly wonder if Avelo will keep BUR long term. BUR didn’t make sense as their LA area airport. I thought LGB made more sense. It’s closer to the popular beach towns and Disneyland, Knotts, etc.

BUR makes some sense as an alternative to LAX; its far closer to the city than ONT/SNA, however as you say it's much further away from the touristy areas that most pax Avelo is targeting would want to go (other than Hollywood). The reason Avelo went for BUR is because it has little domestic competition, especially to secondary markets, however I think they're now beginning to understand why it has so little service.

LGB would make sense however trying to establish a decent presence there in a relatively short period of time is impossible with the slot restrictions. IMHO Avelo would be best placed at SNA, yes it's more competitive, however it has better access to the areas mentioned above, and isn't too far from LA itself.

Doesn't SNA have slots or a fixed number of daily flights?

Yes to both. You can also Google it for more in-depth information.

Wneast wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

How about ONT? SNA no way as is LGB.

ONT is pretty much all taken. The only other possibility might be SBD but that might be taken up by breeze

How is ONT full from WN ?

no its full by everyone being there

Cardude2 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

ONT is pretty much all taken. The only other possibility might be SBD but that might be taken up by breeze

How is ONT full from WN ?

no its full by everyone being there

Don’t they have a lot of gates I doubt it’s full they just would be screwed with WN but that would be like everywhere lol.

Wneast wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

How is ONT full from WN ?

no its full by everyone being there

Don’t they have a lot of gates I doubt it’s full they just would be screwed with WN but that would be like everywhere lol.

Like I said Avelo needs to leave the west/west coast and focus on their east coast operation.

They’re barely a 1yr old airline that a vast majority of LA residents dont even know it exists. I was in a corporate meeting in LA last week and some of our staff were flying back to where they were from out of BUR. The discussion came up about some airline named “Avuelo” which nobody have ever heard of but were saying oh I hear they fly to Oregon or something to that manner.

For 70-80% load factors on non daily routes from a 1 year old airline that most people haven’t heard of or knows exists I think they’re doing just fine and will be doing much better. Perhaps if they focused more on larger markets like the HVN routes they’d for sure get those numbers up. But they now have a really bad ass neon billboard up on the Sunset Strip.

Let’s not forget HVN flies to major routes, has no “LAX” nearby other than a few hours drive to JFK so the numbers there will of course be really good.

I’d love to see them add larger markets like SAT, ELP, BLI, COS, OMA,

nine4nine wrote:

They’re barely a 1yr old airline that a vast majority of LA residents dont even know it exists. I was in a corporate meeting in LA last week and some of our staff were flying back to where they were from out of BUR. The discussion came up about some airline named “Avuelo” which nobody have ever heard of but were saying oh I hear they fly to Oregon or something to that manner.

For 70-80% load factors on non daily routes from a 1 year old airline that most people haven’t heard of or knows exists I think they’re doing just fine and will be doing much better. Perhaps if they focused more on larger markets like the HVN routes they’d for sure get those numbers up. But they now have a really bad ass neon billboard up on the Sunset Strip.

Let’s not forget HVN flies to major routes, has no “LAX” nearby other than a few hours drive to JFK so the numbers there will of course be really good.

I’d love to see them add larger markets like SAT, ELP, BLI, COS, OMA,

BUR loads may be good, but yields per seat mean a lot. I remember EA during chapter 11 had good loads with $139.00 R/T's but a few months later folded. I see fuel costs as now as the biggest problems airlines face and oil keeps rising.

airlineworker wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

They’re barely a 1yr old airline that a vast majority of LA residents dont even know it exists. I was in a corporate meeting in LA last week and some of our staff were flying back to where they were from out of BUR. The discussion came up about some airline named “Avuelo” which nobody have ever heard of but were saying oh I hear they fly to Oregon or something to that manner.

For 70-80% load factors on non daily routes from a 1 year old airline that most people haven’t heard of or knows exists I think they’re doing just fine and will be doing much better. Perhaps if they focused more on larger markets like the HVN routes they’d for sure get those numbers up. But they now have a really bad ass neon billboard up on the Sunset Strip.

Let’s not forget HVN flies to major routes, has no “LAX” nearby other than a few hours drive to JFK so the numbers there will of course be really good.

I’d love to see them add larger markets like SAT, ELP, BLI, COS, OMA,

BUR loads may be good, but yields per seat mean a lot. I remember EA during chapter 11 had good loads with $139.00 R/T's but a few months later folded. I see fuel costs as now as the biggest problems airlines face and oil keeps rising.

Yes, I remember asking network planning once why a route was pulled when the flight had a 90% LF. Their response was, it’s full, but full with what kind of fares? You can fill a plane easily with $69 fares but what kind of money are you making and can you use that airframe better elsewhere? Raise the price? People will go to another airport to fly Southwest for 69$

N803XT has been transferred to the East Coast. 801 and 802 remain in BUR as their 2 aircraft.

JAGMedia wrote:

N803XT has been transferred to the East Coast. 801 and 802 remain in BUR as their 2 aircraft.

Orlando? I guess N804VL will also be based in Orlando? And thus BUR and MCO will ultimately operate with two 738s each?

Their yields aren’t going to be helped by the 50% off sale they announced today.

https://www.news-journal.com/avelo-airl ... a46d6.html

I think it’s clearly time for Avelo to cut their losses at BUR and close shop there.

lippaim wrote:

ctavgeek33 wrote:

Is a sixth plane coming this summer to HVN? I recall hearing that six planes were to be based there. 5 planes seems pretty low for the number of destinations and frequencies.

It can reasonably be expected that N7837A (former WN bird) will join the Avelo fleet soon. It is currently at SBD, which is where some of their other planes have gone for outfitting.

http://www.airlinefleet.info/images/pro ... b737ng.pdf

N7837A just departed SBD enrt MCO.

N805VL just announced

If there are only 2 737-800s now operating at BUR, I guess this means all new 738s are going to MCO? They would total 3 in MCO and 2 in BUR.

caribbeanSwag wrote:

N805VL just announced

If there are only 2 737-800s now operating at BUR, I guess this means all new 738s are going to MCO? They would total 3 in MCO and 2 in BUR.

Likely, from what I heard.

2 in BUR sounds right. When I drove by on Vineland last Saturday on the way to the Business Costco there was one parked and the other was in service.

Avelo is using N803XT for 2x daily flights from MCO to HVN and back. Interesting, since I was previously under the impression that the runway at HVN was too short to support full-capacity 800 service.

They’re putting capacity of the 800 from HVN at 167 passengers due to the short runway. HVN to MCO is currently 3x daily so maybe using the 700 for one of the flights.

Smarcus wrote:

They’re putting capacity of the 800 from HVN at 167 passengers due to the short runway. HVN to MCO is currently 3x daily so maybe using the 700 for one of the flights.

Just checked Flightaware….on the days there are two MCO flights, 738’s are used on both trips. On the days where there are three flights..it’s two 738’s and one 737. Lots of lift from Haven to the Mouse House.

I wish a plane spotter was around HVN. I would love to see the 800 there. In pics or video. I grew up in New Haven. It is great seeing this service. I still remember night time rush there when I was 16. Bex had a mix of planes as well as Continental ATR 42’s united EMB-120 to Dulles and United 737-300 to Chicago I think there was USAir express or Allegheny then.

You might be able to see the video here of the 737-800 taking off recently: https://www.facebook.com/tweedfacts/vid ... e_internal