Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:Can a fully loaded 737-700 headed for Florida make it off the runway at HVN?
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:Can a fully loaded 737-700 headed for Florida make it off the runway at HVN?
Polot wrote:AVLAirlineFreq wrote:Can a fully loaded 737-700 headed for Florida make it off the runway at HVN?
Probably. 73Gs fly trans con from SNA and that runway is only 100’ longer. If they are exDL birds as stated in the other thread they are optioned for great take off performance.
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:Can a fully loaded 737-700 headed for Florida make it off the runway at HVN?
airboss787 wrote:What is pay like at Avelo? Been hearing Breeze paying crap wages, so compared to them, how is Avelo paying? Haven’t heard much about that!
airboss787 wrote:What is pay like at Avelo? Been hearing Breeze paying crap wages, so compared to them, how is Avelo paying? Haven’t heard much about that!
sfojvjets wrote:airboss787 wrote:What is pay like at Avelo? Been hearing Breeze paying crap wages, so compared to them, how is Avelo paying? Haven’t heard much about that!
Avelo is a little better than Sun Country. However, when you take into account higher cost of living in LA Basin than in MSP, you see that Avelo is basically on-par with SY's pay.
caribbeanSwag wrote:
It would be interesting if they used Gary for Chicago, as someone mentioned, and Ellington airport in Houston. To be in America's four largest cities in small small airports, this would be something.
CALMSP wrote:I feel like RFD would be better than GYY, but is further from the loop.
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:caribbeanSwag wrote:
It would be interesting if they used Gary for Chicago, as someone mentioned, and Ellington airport in Houston. To be in America's four largest cities in small small airports, this would be something.
How hard would it be to restart scheduled service at Ellington? It's been a minute.
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:caribbeanSwag wrote:
It would be interesting if they used Gary for Chicago, as someone mentioned, and Ellington airport in Houston. To be in America's four largest cities in small small airports, this would be something.
How hard would it be to restart scheduled service at Ellington? It's been a minute.
drerx7 wrote:AVLAirlineFreq wrote:caribbeanSwag wrote:
It would be interesting if they used Gary for Chicago, as someone mentioned, and Ellington airport in Houston. To be in America's four largest cities in small small airports, this would be something.
How hard would it be to restart scheduled service at Ellington? It's been a minute.
I think a new facility would be needed. IIRC the old building needed to be upgraded for security after 9/11...Continental opted out. I would love to see them at EFD...SGR would be an interesting option too...its runway is 8,000ft
joeblow10 wrote:The real issue I have with the startup was the velocity ... they gave people a month to buy tickets on an airline nobody has ever heard of before. And they have no presence on OTAs at the moment - which makes it next to impossible to reach the average customer who has yet to hear of them.
The concept makes total sense... but the execution has been iffy to say the least, at least from my perspective. Seems to me like they should have held off a few more months and really gone all out on marketing
MIflyer12 wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:joeblow10 wrote:The real issue I have with the startup was the velocity ... they gave people a month to buy tickets on an airline nobody has ever heard of before. And they have no presence on OTAs at the moment - which makes it next to impossible to reach the average customer who has yet to hear of them.
The concept makes total sense... but the execution has been iffy to say the least, at least from my perspective. Seems to me like they should have held off a few more months and really gone all out on marketing
Iffy to you or them?
While low initial load factors may not excite the average a.netter or travel blog, it does allow a “soft opening” of sorts. A chance to test the model under lower stress and lower risk scenarios. These aren’t just new routes, they are the first flights of a new airline. While it would look good for the press to have standing room only in the gate area, that can be a problem when those people have been standing there for 3 hours waiting on a delay.
There’s a reason most service industry operators open quietly under soft openings. There are always kinks to iron out, and it’s better to have your service failures under low-load.
While it’s not great for the short term, opening slow is better for the long term. A new name, in new markets is always going to be tough. Most network mainline carriers (with great brand recognition) have a 12 month time frame for domestic routes to develop, and 18-36 months for long haul/international markets. Even the big boys don’t except profitable flying on any new market in the first few weeks. Be patient.
You're working awfully hard to rationalize an embarrassing start. What, exactly, is so much harder about carrying 80 people rather than fifteen on a 175-seat 738? If they can't scale check-in, on-board service and baggage handling at 50% on Day 1, they will fail quickly.
F9Animal wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:
Iffy to you or them?
While low initial load factors may not excite the average a.netter or travel blog, it does allow a “soft opening” of sorts. A chance to test the model under lower stress and lower risk scenarios. These aren’t just new routes, they are the first flights of a new airline. While it would look good for the press to have standing room only in the gate area, that can be a problem when those people have been standing there for 3 hours waiting on a delay.
There’s a reason most service industry operators open quietly under soft openings. There are always kinks to iron out, and it’s better to have your service failures under low-load.
While it’s not great for the short term, opening slow is better for the long term. A new name, in new markets is always going to be tough. Most network mainline carriers (with great brand recognition) have a 12 month time frame for domestic routes to develop, and 18-36 months for long haul/international markets. Even the big boys don’t except profitable flying on any new market in the first few weeks. Be patient.
You're working awfully hard to rationalize an embarrassing start. What, exactly, is so much harder about carrying 80 people rather than fifteen on a 175-seat 738? If they can't scale check-in, on-board service and baggage handling at 50% on Day 1, they will fail quickly.
The same was said about B6 and even G4. I was one of the naysayers too. Gave both airlines less than 365 days to survive.
I would normally agree, but... The management of this airline has proven me wrong before. The seats will get filled eventually. Yep, it's gotta be the worst time to start an airline..... And it does look dismal. But... The leadership of Avelo and Breeze know something good is going to come of it.
lightsaber wrote:I find the comparisons to Indy air interesting. The difference is the lack of a hub.
Honestly, their issue is awareness. Avelo is, in my social circle, not known among casual flyers. Breeze seems to have done better word of mouth.
I wish them luck, but BUR isn't convenient for myself.
Lightsaber
caribbeanSwag wrote:lightsaber wrote:I find the comparisons to Indy air interesting. The difference is the lack of a hub.
Honestly, their issue is awareness. Avelo is, in my social circle, not known among casual flyers. Breeze seems to have done better word of mouth.
I wish them luck, but BUR isn't convenient for myself.
Lightsaber
Not sure why this matters. Most people who buy tickets aren't airline geeks like us. Most non-airline geeks don't know anything about either of these airlines but will be instantly attracted to the super low fares when they search up flights. Brand recognition happens naturally and fast.
Also not, I'm not sure why you're saying Avelo has a lack of a hub. With 3 airplanes, they're squeezing out as much of a hub system as they possibly can there currently. And they plan on doing the same in New Haven.
Polot wrote:caribbeanSwag wrote:lightsaber wrote:I find the comparisons to Indy air interesting. The difference is the lack of a hub.
Honestly, their issue is awareness. Avelo is, in my social circle, not known among casual flyers. Breeze seems to have done better word of mouth.
I wish them luck, but BUR isn't convenient for myself.
Lightsaber
Not sure why this matters. Most people who buy tickets aren't airline geeks like us. Most non-airline geeks don't know anything about either of these airlines but will be instantly attracted to the super low fares when they search up flights. Brand recognition happens naturally and fast.
Also not, I'm not sure why you're saying Avelo has a lack of a hub. With 3 airplanes, they're squeezing out as much of a hub system as they possibly can there currently. And they plan on doing the same in New Haven.
Right now I believe you can only purchase tickets through Avelo and they don’t show up in flight searches (someone correct me if I am wrong). In which case brand awareness (which is slightly different than brand recognition) is very important.
caribbeanSwag wrote:lightsaber wrote:I find the comparisons to Indy air interesting. The difference is the lack of a hub.
Honestly, their issue is awareness. Avelo is, in my social circle, not known among casual flyers. Breeze seems to have done better word of mouth.
I wish them luck, but BUR isn't convenient for myself.
Lightsaber
Not sure why this matters. Most people who buy tickets aren't airline geeks like us. Most non-airline geeks don't know anything about either of these airlines but will be instantly attracted to the super low fares when they search up flights. Brand recognition happens naturally and fast.
Also not, I'm not sure why you're saying Avelo has a lack of a hub. With 3 airplanes, they're squeezing out as much of a hub system as they possibly can there currently. And they plan on doing the same in New Haven.
Polot wrote:caribbeanSwag wrote:lightsaber wrote:I find the comparisons to Indy air interesting. The difference is the lack of a hub.
Honestly, their issue is awareness. Avelo is, in my social circle, not known among casual flyers. Breeze seems to have done better word of mouth.
I wish them luck, but BUR isn't convenient for myself.
Lightsaber
Not sure why this matters. Most people who buy tickets aren't airline geeks like us. Most non-airline geeks don't know anything about either of these airlines but will be instantly attracted to the super low fares when they search up flights. Brand recognition happens naturally and fast.
Also not, I'm not sure why you're saying Avelo has a lack of a hub. With 3 airplanes, they're squeezing out as much of a hub system as they possibly can there currently. And they plan on doing the same in New Haven.
Right now I believe you can only purchase tickets through Avelo and they don’t show up in flight searches (someone correct me if I am wrong). In which case brand awareness (which is slightly different than brand recognition) is very important.
caribbeanSwag wrote:drerx7 wrote:AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
How hard would it be to restart scheduled service at Ellington? It's been a minute.
I think a new facility would be needed. IIRC the old building needed to be upgraded for security after 9/11...Continental opted out. I would love to see them at EFD...SGR would be an interesting option too...its runway is 8,000ft
I think SGR would be the best bet in Houston outside of IAH and HOU. Even if Ellington added a new facility, its close enough to HOU that it wouldn’t have a good zone. SGR is well positioned on the far west side of Houston where there’s a lot of wealth and high densities of population. Katy-Sugar Land-far west Houston would love having an option without needing to commute long hours for either airport.
Someone mentioned GLS, but this wouldn’t work. GLS could potentially fit a regional flight like AA to DFW or Delta to ATL, that could benefit from the cruise industry. But a base like Avelo I don’t see working.
Someone mentioned BMT and College station. Way too far from Houston to fit the Houston specific market.
That leaves SGR as the best option outside of HOU and IAH.
Boiler905 wrote:caribbeanSwag wrote:drerx7 wrote:I think a new facility would be needed. IIRC the old building needed to be upgraded for security after 9/11...Continental opted out. I would love to see them at EFD...SGR would be an interesting option too...its runway is 8,000ft
I think SGR would be the best bet in Houston outside of IAH and HOU. Even if Ellington added a new facility, its close enough to HOU that it wouldn’t have a good zone. SGR is well positioned on the far west side of Houston where there’s a lot of wealth and high densities of population. Katy-Sugar Land-far west Houston would love having an option without needing to commute long hours for either airport.
Someone mentioned GLS, but this wouldn’t work. GLS could potentially fit a regional flight like AA to DFW or Delta to ATL, that could benefit from the cruise industry. But a base like Avelo I don’t see working.
Someone mentioned BMT and College station. Way too far from Houston to fit the Houston specific market.
That leaves SGR as the best option outside of HOU and IAH.
Question out of ignorance...
Would the SGR runway width only being 100' be a problem for operating Part 121 737s? It's narrower than the usual 150'
lightsaber wrote:I find the comparisons to Indy air interesting. The difference is the lack of a hub.
Honestly, their issue is awareness. Avelo is, in my social circle, not known among casual flyers. Breeze seems to have done better word of mouth.
I wish them luck, but BUR isn't convenient for myself.
Lightsaber
nws2002 wrote:Boiler905 wrote:caribbeanSwag wrote:
I think SGR would be the best bet in Houston outside of IAH and HOU. Even if Ellington added a new facility, its close enough to HOU that it wouldn’t have a good zone. SGR is well positioned on the far west side of Houston where there’s a lot of wealth and high densities of population. Katy-Sugar Land-far west Houston would love having an option without needing to commute long hours for either airport.
Someone mentioned GLS, but this wouldn’t work. GLS could potentially fit a regional flight like AA to DFW or Delta to ATL, that could benefit from the cruise industry. But a base like Avelo I don’t see working.
Someone mentioned BMT and College station. Way too far from Houston to fit the Houston specific market.
That leaves SGR as the best option outside of HOU and IAH.
Question out of ignorance...
Would the SGR runway width only being 100' be a problem for operating Part 121 737s? It's narrower than the usual 150'
JQF has service from G4 with only a 100' runway. Obviously it is an A320 and not a B737, but similar aircraft size.
Varsity1 wrote:Old friend rode Avelo last week out of BUR, less than 30 people onboard.
They need to get on the GDS to survive. Their current (lack of) marketing and brand awareness is going to kill them in a Southwest - sell your own tickets model.
Varsity1 wrote:Old friend rode Avelo last week out of BUR, less than 30 people onboard.
They need to get on the GDS to survive. Their current (lack of) marketing and brand awareness is going to kill them in a Southwest - sell your own tickets model.
caribbeanSwag wrote:drerx7 wrote:AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
How hard would it be to restart scheduled service at Ellington? It's been a minute.
I think a new facility would be needed. IIRC the old building needed to be upgraded for security after 9/11...Continental opted out. I would love to see them at EFD...SGR would be an interesting option too...its runway is 8,000ft
I think SGR would be the best bet in Houston outside of IAH and HOU. Even if Ellington added a new facility, its close enough to HOU that it wouldn’t have a good zone. SGR is well positioned on the far west side of Houston where there’s a lot of wealth and high densities of population. Katy-Sugar Land-far west Houston would love having an option without needing to commute long hours for either airport.
Someone mentioned GLS, but this wouldn’t work. GLS could potentially fit a regional flight like AA to DFW or Delta to ATL, that could benefit from the cruise industry. But a base like Avelo I don’t see working.
Someone mentioned BMT and College station. Way too far from Houston to fit the Houston specific market.
That leaves SGR as the best option outside of HOU and IAH.
catiii wrote:lightsaber wrote:I find the comparisons to Indy air interesting. The difference is the lack of a hub.
Honestly, their issue is awareness. Avelo is, in my social circle, not known among casual flyers. Breeze seems to have done better word of mouth.
I wish them luck, but BUR isn't convenient for myself.
Lightsaber
Funny in my social circle (Connecticut, HHI, casual flyers) they’re very well known.
TWA772LR wrote:caribbeanSwag wrote:drerx7 wrote:I think a new facility would be needed. IIRC the old building needed to be upgraded for security after 9/11...Continental opted out. I would love to see them at EFD...SGR would be an interesting option too...its runway is 8,000ft
I think SGR would be the best bet in Houston outside of IAH and HOU. Even if Ellington added a new facility, its close enough to HOU that it wouldn’t have a good zone. SGR is well positioned on the far west side of Houston where there’s a lot of wealth and high densities of population. Katy-Sugar Land-far west Houston would love having an option without needing to commute long hours for either airport.
Someone mentioned GLS, but this wouldn’t work. GLS could potentially fit a regional flight like AA to DFW or Delta to ATL, that could benefit from the cruise industry. But a base like Avelo I don’t see working.
Someone mentioned BMT and College station. Way too far from Houston to fit the Houston specific market.
That leaves SGR as the best option outside of HOU and IAH.
I'd love to see EFD and the other smaller Houston area airports get service but Levy has decent-enough (even if slightly dated) insider info to UAs IAH ops. I'd say he'd make a go for IAH. Terminal A may be tight on gates but D is wide open in the morning and evening. They can even use D1-3 during the European rush. Houston is also expanding rapidly to the north where IAH is the most convenient, and to the west, where driving to HOU and IAH are both comparable.
IAH-PGD/RFD or GRY/AZA/BUR/HVN/OGD can work well.
In general, if they want to jump in to the Denver market, I believe Ft. Collins had G4 service at one point so that's a viable option. Selfishly I'd rather see APA but that's more of a JSX-type of market.
SunsetLimited wrote:New airline overextending itself with a lot of routes and a small fleet... massive delays are bound to happen.
I hope Avelo finds long term success but call me skeptical right now.
SunsetLimited wrote:New airline overextending itself with a lot of routes and a small fleet... massive delays are bound to happen.
I hope Avelo finds long term success but call me skeptical right now.
catiii wrote:SunsetLimited wrote:New airline overextending itself with a lot of routes and a small fleet... massive delays are bound to happen.
I hope Avelo finds long term success but call me skeptical right now.
It’s one delay...
nine4nine wrote:catiii wrote:SunsetLimited wrote:New airline overextending itself with a lot of routes and a small fleet... massive delays are bound to happen.
I hope Avelo finds long term success but call me skeptical right now.
It’s one delay...
Seriously. The sky is falling group always out there with the typical doom and gloom. It’s a new airline with a small fleet. Things like this will happen. They happened to B6 when they were fresh and small, they happened to everyone. And unlike California Pacific as one mentioned, Avelo is very well funded and run by a successful proven chief at the helm.