Airliners.net

Wingtips56 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Italianflyer wrote:

I wonder if they are looking at TVL (Lake Tahoe) as a seasonal winter/summer alternative to RNO. Seems like would be a homer from BUR, LAS and Phoenix (whichever airport).

Can you even get a 737 in there? Is there like an RNP approach or something?

Yes. Way back, Pacific flew 727-100. Air California and PSA opened with Electras. Jets were restricted for a long time but when it was lifted, AirCal returned with the DC-9-80, later replaced by the 737-300. TahoeAir and others did 732s and other mixed equipment. But after service withdrawals, TVL gave up its commercial airport status.

So XP could get a 737NG in, if the airport status is ever restored. Don't hold your breath.

I think G4 had charters to TVL using DC-9-50's.

And there were a number of commuter airlines that served TVL including AA Eagle with Metros, Aspen with CVR580's and I want to say airlines like Air Pacific (not the Fiji one), Golden Gate and Golden West (not all at the same time) used Dash 7's to TVL. Much later in life, there was Pacific Expressway using J31's between OAK and TVL.

Like people mentioned here, skeletal infrastructure is still there, but I don't think the city will open it back up to commercial service. But I think GA aircraft can still fly there. TVL does have an 8500-ft runway, but it's only 100 feet wide. Elevation is almost 6300 feet ASL. Like the previous poster mentioned, it is perfectly possible to fly a -800 into TVL.

https://www.laketahoeairport.com/

DalDC9Bos wrote:

‘If’ they were to launch Houston flights, I’d guess they would choose HOU over IAH. What do y’all think? Their corporate headquarters are located within the loop and their operating model seems more of a fit at Hobby.

Does Hobby have any gate space right now? I don't see Southwest sharing. If not, does it have any hard stands or space for hard stands available for boarding/deplaning? I could see Avelo willing to do that.

It’s actually not within the loop. That Westheimer address is just a mailing address. Avelo’s Houston headquarters is in San Felipe Plaza close to the Galleria. That’s where most of their employees are. With that position, they aren’t much closer to one or the other.

Wasn’t there supposed to be an announcement of new/additional BUR routes as well as the launch routes for the HVN base yesterday?

caribbeanSwag wrote:

2 of the new Boeing 737-700s are coming from Southwest. The last, I can’t see. And they’re all around 13 years old.

According to planespotters.net, all three will be from WN. N905WN, N916WN, and N921WN.
On a personal note, 921 was my first nonstop to OAK 6 years ago... Glad it found a new home.

Wneast wrote:

DalDC9Bos wrote:

‘If’ they were to launch Houston flights, I’d guess they would choose HOU over IAH. What do y’all think? Their corporate headquarters are located within the loop and their operating model seems more of a fit at Hobby.

Does Hobby have any gate space right now? I don't see Southwest sharing. If not, does it have any hard stands or space for hard stands available for boarding/deplaning? I could see Avelo willing to do that.

I really don’t think there is any space at Hobby hence the reason WN expanded to IAH... and I don’t know why is HOU restricted to more gates ?

Yes. HOU has space. WN expanded at IAH because there has been so much growth north of I-10 with the completion of hwy 99 and the expansion of 249, that it was almost a must to continue to hold on to the market share that they do have in Houston. I believe 26-32 are all used be other airlines (DL, AA, G4). B6 packed up and move up to IAH.

nine4nine wrote:

Wasn’t there supposed to be an announcement of new/additional BUR routes as well as the launch routes for the HVN base yesterday?

Yes, and the day before that, and the day before that, and the day before that......... Given that we're over halfway thru the first month of Q3, which is when the HVN base was supposed to start I think we can conclude that the announcemens of both that base and BUR expansion were smoke and mirrors. Move along, nothing to see here.

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think G4 had charters to TVL using DC-9-50's.

And there were a number of commuter airlines that served TVL including AA Eagle with Metros, Aspen with CVR580's and I want to say airlines like Air Pacific (not the Fiji one), Golden Gate and Golden West (not all at the same time) used Dash 7's to TVL. Much later in life, there was Pacific Expressway using J31's between OAK and TVL.

Like people mentioned here, skeletal infrastructure is still there, but I don't think the city will open it back up to commercial service. But I think GA aircraft can still fly there. TVL does have an 8500-ft runway, but it's only 100 feet wide. Elevation is almost 6300 feet ASL. Like the previous poster mentioned, it is perfectly possible to fly a -800 into TVL.

https://www.laketahoeairport.com/

Allegiant operated scheduled service not charters to TVL. LGB-TVL flights were part of its first LCC business plan before the BK in 2001 and before revamping to the current business plan under Maurice Gallagher.

FATFlyer wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think G4 had charters to TVL using DC-9-50's.

And there were a number of commuter airlines that served TVL including AA Eagle with Metros, Aspen with CVR580's and I want to say airlines like Air Pacific (not the Fiji one), Golden Gate and Golden West (not all at the same time) used Dash 7's to TVL. Much later in life, there was Pacific Expressway using J31's between OAK and TVL.

Like people mentioned here, skeletal infrastructure is still there, but I don't think the city will open it back up to commercial service. But I think GA aircraft can still fly there. TVL does have an 8500-ft runway, but it's only 100 feet wide. Elevation is almost 6300 feet ASL. Like the previous poster mentioned, it is perfectly possible to fly a -800 into TVL.

https://www.laketahoeairport.com/

Allegiant operated scheduled service not charters to TVL. LGB-TVL flights were part of its first LCC business plan before the BK in 2001 and before revamping to the current business plan under Maurice Gallagher.

Regularly scheduled charters? LOL! Just pulling your leg. I didn't know Allegiant had scheduled flights there...I just remember seeing pics of their airplanes there.

It was Sierra Expressway with the J31s.

FATFlyer wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think G4 had charters to TVL using DC-9-50's.

And there were a number of commuter airlines that served TVL including AA Eagle with Metros, Aspen with CVR580's and I want to say airlines like Air Pacific (not the Fiji one), Golden Gate and Golden West (not all at the same time) used Dash 7's to TVL. Much later in life, there was Pacific Expressway using J31's between OAK and TVL.

Like people mentioned here, skeletal infrastructure is still there, but I don't think the city will open it back up to commercial service. But I think GA aircraft can still fly there. TVL does have an 8500-ft runway, but it's only 100 feet wide. Elevation is almost 6300 feet ASL. Like the previous poster mentioned, it is perfectly possible to fly a -800 into TVL.

https://www.laketahoeairport.com/

Allegiant operated scheduled service not charters to TVL. LGB-TVL flights were part of its first LCC business plan before the BK in 2001 and before revamping to the current business plan under Maurice Gallagher.

Was Andrew Levy part of Allegiant at the time?

Kick butt Avelo!

Flflyer83 wrote:

And they’re pulling out of BZM and GJT… already. Didn’t take long.

I read a comment somewhere that said mostly because summer is over and visits to national parks (BZN: Yellowstone/Grand Teton & GJT: Arches/Canyonlands/Mesa Verde) will drop substantially roughly the same time they stop service. Didn't commit to seasonal service, but hinted they would reevaluate in the future.

wedgetail737 wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think G4 had charters to TVL using DC-9-50's.

And there were a number of commuter airlines that served TVL including AA Eagle with Metros, Aspen with CVR580's and I want to say airlines like Air Pacific (not the Fiji one), Golden Gate and Golden West (not all at the same time) used Dash 7's to TVL. Much later in life, there was Pacific Expressway using J31's between OAK and TVL.

Like people mentioned here, skeletal infrastructure is still there, but I don't think the city will open it back up to commercial service. But I think GA aircraft can still fly there. TVL does have an 8500-ft runway, but it's only 100 feet wide. Elevation is almost 6300 feet ASL. Like the previous poster mentioned, it is perfectly possible to fly a -800 into TVL.

https://www.laketahoeairport.com/

Allegiant operated scheduled service not charters to TVL. LGB-TVL flights were part of its first LCC business plan before the BK in 2001 and before revamping to the current business plan under Maurice Gallagher.

Regularly scheduled charters? LOL! Just pulling your leg. I didn't know Allegiant had scheduled flights there...I just remember seeing pics of their airplanes there.

I thought about being more specific that it was not scheduled charter just in case.

Allegiant tried TVL twice in 2 years. Each time it only lasted 4 or 5 months.

airlinepeanuts wrote:

Was Andrew Levy part of Allegiant at the time?

Levy joined Allegiant in June 2001. But Allegiant had already attempted TVL once before he joined the company.

Allegiant first tried TVL in 2000 then pulled out after only a few months. Their second attempt at TVL was in the second half of 2001, that attempt started just a month or two before 9/11.

When Allegiant attempted TVL the company was being run by founder Mitch Allee and President Jim Patterson.

Patterson spent 20 years at PSA in operations, schedule/route planning, etc from the mid 1960s until the mid 1980s. I sometimes think some of the early Allegiant routes such as TVL were a reflection of his time at PSA.

altairF28 wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

Wasn’t there supposed to be an announcement of new/additional BUR routes as well as the launch routes for the HVN base yesterday?

Yes, and the day before that, and the day before that, and the day before that......... Given that we're over halfway thru the first month of Q3, which is when the HVN base was supposed to start I think we can conclude that the announcemens of both that base and BUR expansion were smoke and mirrors. Move along, nothing to see here.

Their new fleet is already delivered, so this is incorrect.

I would love to see TVL reopened for commercial service, but I think it's pretty unlikely.

Flflyer83 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

DalDC9Bos wrote:

‘If’ they were to launch Houston flights, I’d guess they would choose HOU over IAH. What do y’all think? Their corporate headquarters are located within the loop and their operating model seems more of a fit at Hobby.

Does Hobby have any gate space right now? I don't see Southwest sharing. If not, does it have any hard stands or space for hard stands available for boarding/deplaning? I could see Avelo willing to do that.

I really don’t think there is any space at Hobby hence the reason WN expanded to IAH... and I don’t know why is HOU restricted to more gates ?

Yes. HOU has space. WN expanded at IAH because there has been so much growth north of I-10 with the completion of hwy 99 and the expansion of 249, that it was almost a must to continue to hold on to the market share that they do have in Houston. I believe 26-32 are all used be other airlines (DL, AA, G4). B6 packed up and move up to IAH.

Gates 26-32 there is only 30 ? And I’m pretty sure G4 uses 2 gates that are there’s and I don’t really think any airline even has more then a couple flights of there. Even if there were maybe some room it would be for a couple flights why would they want to go there when the couldn’t grow

nine4nine wrote:

Wasn’t there supposed to be an announcement of new/additional BUR routes as well as the launch routes for the HVN base yesterday?

It is known that there is a significant delay. The speculation is that it is something related to the FAA oversight of a new scheduled airline (Predecessor entity was not operating scheduled), but we don’t really know. The HVN planes are ready it appears, and having them sit is expensive. So pretty much has to be a regulatory delay. It seems like Avelo is operating more reliably than Breeze ironically.

FATFlyer wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

Allegiant operated scheduled service not charters to TVL. LGB-TVL flights were part of its first LCC business plan before the BK in 2001 and before revamping to the current business plan under Maurice Gallagher.

Regularly scheduled charters? LOL! Just pulling your leg. I didn't know Allegiant had scheduled flights there...I just remember seeing pics of their airplanes there.

I thought about being more specific that it was not scheduled charter just in case.

Allegiant tried TVL twice in 2 years. Each time it only lasted 4 or 5 months.

Tahoe Air flew 737-200's out of TVL for what? Two Years?

FlyingElvii wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

Regularly scheduled charters? LOL! Just pulling your leg. I didn't know Allegiant had scheduled flights there...I just remember seeing pics of their airplanes there.

I thought about being more specific that it was not scheduled charter just in case.

Allegiant tried TVL twice in 2 years. Each time it only lasted 4 or 5 months.

Tahoe Air flew 737-200's out of TVL for what? Two Years?

Tahoe Air (operated by Casino Express) lasted that long?

TerminalD wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

Wasn’t there supposed to be an announcement of new/additional BUR routes as well as the launch routes for the HVN base yesterday?

It is known that there is a significant delay. The speculation is that it is something related to the FAA oversight of a new scheduled airline (Predecessor entity was not operating scheduled), but we don’t really know. The HVN planes are ready it appears, and having them sit is expensive. So pretty much has to be a regulatory delay. It seems like Avelo is operating more reliably than Breeze ironically.

Ima be honest and say it’s not ironic at all. Rarely anything in Breeze makes any sense at all. Avelo sure has it’s question marks but Breeze makes me sit here and think “wtf are they doing” in many cases.

First of all, as it was stated above, too much marketing starting out isn’t a good thing. Both airlines are pretty small right now and Breeze was advertising it’s brand long before 2020. Avelo waited it out which makes much more sense in the long run. Breeze is over marketing itself for an airline with so little routes and the marketing doesn’t seem to be hanging on. All they did was let the world know how small they are. On the other hand, Avelo is marketing just enough and will grow as time passes.

Second, this “we are more like a tech company that happens to fly airplanes” doesn’t make any sense. You have an app? So I guess Avelo, United, etc must be tech companies too.

To me, it seems like Breeze is surprising how slow they’re growing while Avelo is surprising how fast they are since it seemed like they were doing it opposite. Yes, HVN and BUR expansions haven’t been announced but their planes are delivered so as soon as they are, this will be the case.

I’m not even going to tap into the business models. Breeze operates in real mid sized cities while Avelo does secondary airports in large markets (essentially the Ryanair model once connecting flights commence). Both of these make sense, so on this one I call it a tie.

From Departed Wings: One of the highest elevation airports in California, Lake Tahoe Airport stated from rather modest beginnings as a basic general aviation airport. In anticipation of the 1960 Winter Olympics in Squaw Valley, a new location and 5,900-foot runway was constructed in 1959, just south of Stateline, Nevada (south part of the lake).

In 1963, a local carrier, Paradise Airlines started passenger flights into Lake Tahoe, but stopped within a year due to a fatal accident. Pacific Air Lines started F-27 flights in 1964, and a few years later Boeing 727 service was started between San Jose and Lake Tahoe, the first jet flights for the airport.

Within a few years Lake Tahoe had a spurt of growth especially along the south shore where gambling casinos built up on the Nevada side and winter skiing activities became a popular destination. At this same time the city placed a ban on jet aircraft operating into the airport. During the 1970s, start-up Holiday Airlines commenced scheduled flights from various California cities and both Air California and Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA) started scheduled flights using the Lockheed L-188 Electra. Numerous gambling charters filed the slots between the scheduled airlines.

During the 1980s, many commuter airlines started service into the airport, as well as AirCal using new McDonnell Douglas MD-80s, after the city lifted the jet noise restriction. American Airlines assumed the routes of AirCal in 1988, yet replaced the jet service with American Eagle commuter before finally stopping all service. Reno Air provided scheduled flights in 1996, and short-lived flights by charter airlines Tahoe Air and Allegiant Air continued in the late 90s,

wedgetail737 wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

I thought about being more specific that it was not scheduled charter just in case.

Allegiant tried TVL twice in 2 years. Each time it only lasted 4 or 5 months.

Tahoe Air flew 737-200's out of TVL for what? Two Years?

Tahoe Air (operated by Casino Express) lasted that long?

Per departed flights, it lasted about 7 months. I actually had the opportunity to fly them from Tahoe. It also has photos of AA, Reno, and Tahoe Air scheduled service jets on the ramp. Been a long time, but I remember how awesome the departure was.

32andBelow wrote:

Wingtips56 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Can you even get a 737 in there? Is there like an RNP approach or something?

Yes. Way back, Pacific flew 727-100. Air California and PSA opened with Electras. Jets were restricted for a long time but when it was lifted, AirCal returned with the DC-9-80, later replaced by the 737-300. TahoeAir and others did 732s and other mixed equipment. But after service withdrawals, TVL gave up its commercial airport status.

So XP could get a 737NG in, if the airport status is ever restored. Don't hold your breath.

What about approaches? I feel like it would be another mammoth lakes situation if they don’t have RNP

I don't know a lot, and memories fade, but OC did have issues with the DC-9-80, where they would bump non-revs and freight on the inbounds if the gross weight would make it hard to land from the dive down the Meyers Grade: they had to divert to Reno some times and didn't want non-revs to be what made the difference. Then taking off over the Lake was fine, but taking off into the mountains meant a steep spiraling climb to clear, so weight restrictions. The 733s were a bit more nimble, and with thicker wings did not have to be deiced anywhere near as much as the skinny wings on the 9's.

The coolest thing ever was driving on Highway 50 and looking down on the top of an AirCal in the valley making an approach.

But we digress. How 'bout those XP 738s at STS?

To me, it seems like Breeze is surprising how slow they’re growing while Avelo is surprising how fast they are since it seemed like they were doing it opposite. Yes, HVN and BUR expansions haven’t been announced but their planes are delivered so as soon as they are, this will be the case.

When Breeze announced its initial network, it revealed 39 routes across 16 airports.

Wingtips56 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Wingtips56 wrote:

Yes. Way back, Pacific flew 727-100. Air California and PSA opened with Electras. Jets were restricted for a long time but when it was lifted, AirCal returned with the DC-9-80, later replaced by the 737-300. TahoeAir and others did 732s and other mixed equipment. But after service withdrawals, TVL gave up its commercial airport status.

So XP could get a 737NG in, if the airport status is ever restored. Don't hold your breath.

What about approaches? I feel like it would be another mammoth lakes situation if they don’t have RNP

I don't know a lot, and memories fade, but OC did have issues with the DC-9-80, where they would bump non-revs and freight on the inbounds if the gross weight would make it hard to land from the dive down the Meyers Grade: they had to divert to Reno some times and didn't want non-revs to be what made the difference. Then taking off over the Lake was fine, but taking off into the mountains meant a steep spiraling climb to clear, so weight restrictions. The 733s were a bit more nimble, and with thicker wings did not have to be deiced anywhere near as much as the skinny wings on the 9's.

The coolest thing ever was driving on Highway 50 and looking down on the top of an AirCal in the valley making an approach.

But we digress. How 'bout those XP 738s at STS?

If TVL ever reopened for commercial flights, any NG airplanes or new-gen Airbus airplanes won't have any issues with the airport other than the narrow runway, instrumentation, etc.

caribbeanSwag wrote:

TerminalD wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

Wasn’t there supposed to be an announcement of new/additional BUR routes as well as the launch routes for the HVN base yesterday?

It is known that there is a significant delay. The speculation is that it is something related to the FAA oversight of a new scheduled airline (Predecessor entity was not operating scheduled), but we don’t really know. The HVN planes are ready it appears, and having them sit is expensive. So pretty much has to be a regulatory delay. It seems like Avelo is operating more reliably than Breeze ironically.

Ima be honest and say it’s not ironic at all. Rarely anything in Breeze makes any sense at all. Avelo sure has it’s question marks but Breeze makes me sit here and think “wtf are they doing” in many cases.

First of all, as it was stated above, too much marketing starting out isn’t a good thing. Both airlines are pretty small right now and Breeze was advertising it’s brand long before 2020. Avelo waited it out which makes much more sense in the long run. Breeze is over marketing itself for an airline with so little routes and the marketing doesn’t seem to be hanging on. All they did was let the world know how small they are. On the other hand, Avelo is marketing just enough and will grow as time passes.

Second, this “we are more like a tech company that happens to fly airplanes” doesn’t make any sense. You have an app? So I guess Avelo, United, etc must be tech companies too.

To me, it seems like Breeze is surprising how slow they’re growing while Avelo is surprising how fast they are since it seemed like they were doing it opposite. Yes, HVN and BUR expansions haven’t been announced but their planes are delivered so as soon as they are, this will be the case.

I’m not even going to tap into the business models. Breeze operates in real mid sized cities while Avelo does secondary airports in large markets (essentially the Ryanair model once connecting flights commence). Both of these make sense, so on this one I call it a tie.

I agree Avelo seems like the better model so far. Not sure the FAA agrees!

TerminalD wrote:

caribbeanSwag wrote:

TerminalD wrote:

It is known that there is a significant delay. The speculation is that it is something related to the FAA oversight of a new scheduled airline (Predecessor entity was not operating scheduled), but we don’t really know. The HVN planes are ready it appears, and having them sit is expensive. So pretty much has to be a regulatory delay. It seems like Avelo is operating more reliably than Breeze ironically.

Ima be honest and say it’s not ironic at all. Rarely anything in Breeze makes any sense at all. Avelo sure has it’s question marks but Breeze makes me sit here and think “wtf are they doing” in many cases.

First of all, as it was stated above, too much marketing starting out isn’t a good thing. Both airlines are pretty small right now and Breeze was advertising it’s brand long before 2020. Avelo waited it out which makes much more sense in the long run. Breeze is over marketing itself for an airline with so little routes and the marketing doesn’t seem to be hanging on. All they did was let the world know how small they are. On the other hand, Avelo is marketing just enough and will grow as time passes.

Second, this “we are more like a tech company that happens to fly airplanes” doesn’t make any sense. You have an app? So I guess Avelo, United, etc must be tech companies too.

To me, it seems like Breeze is surprising how slow they’re growing while Avelo is surprising how fast they are since it seemed like they were doing it opposite. Yes, HVN and BUR expansions haven’t been announced but their planes are delivered so as soon as they are, this will be the case.

I’m not even going to tap into the business models. Breeze operates in real mid sized cities while Avelo does secondary airports in large markets (essentially the Ryanair model once connecting flights commence). Both of these make sense, so on this one I call it a tie.

I agree Avelo seems like the better model so far. Not sure the FAA agrees!

It’s not really the model that makes me lean towards Avelo though. Both models seem like gold if done properly. Breeze being mid sized markets while Avelo is secondary airports in large markets. Where my critique lies in Breeze is their over marketing while being so small. This puts people off. For example under Avelo’s more passive marketing model, the HVN delay doesn’t hit as much. But we’re Breeze to make a Q3 promise people may instantly begin the

And ironically, Avelo seems to be ready to grow. As long as the growth is smartly, I see success.

TerminalD wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

Wasn’t there supposed to be an announcement of new/additional BUR routes as well as the launch routes for the HVN base yesterday?

It is known that there is a significant delay. The speculation is that it is something related to the FAA oversight of a new scheduled airline (Predecessor entity was not operating scheduled), but we don’t really know. The HVN planes are ready it appears, and having them sit is expensive. So pretty much has to be a regulatory delay. It seems like Avelo is operating more reliably than Breeze ironically.

If this is the case, I do wish they would make some kind of an announcement. We have heard literally -zero- from Avelo here in New Haven since their initial announcement back on May 6. They got us all fired up , we've seen the PDF plans of the interim operations plan at HVN (modular facilities added to the existing small terminal building to enable operations to start long before the completion of the new terminal building to be built across the field).

I drove by the airport this past week and see no signs of anything starting re: modifications. Avelo does need to let folks know whats happening other than the standard P.R. BS response of "we expect to announce our HVN routes very soon". Its been 2.5 months .. start talkin, Avelo!

F27500 wrote:

TerminalD wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

Wasn’t there supposed to be an announcement of new/additional BUR routes as well as the launch routes for the HVN base yesterday?

It is known that there is a significant delay. The speculation is that it is something related to the FAA oversight of a new scheduled airline (Predecessor entity was not operating scheduled), but we don’t really know. The HVN planes are ready it appears, and having them sit is expensive. So pretty much has to be a regulatory delay. It seems like Avelo is operating more reliably than Breeze ironically.

If this is the case, I do wish they would make some kind of an announcement. We have heard literally -zero- from Avelo here in New Haven since their initial announcement back on May 6. They got us all fired up , we've seen the PDF plans of the interim operations plan at HVN (modular facilities added to the existing small terminal building to enable operations to start long before the completion of the new terminal building to be built across the field).

I drove by the airport this past week and see no signs of anything starting re: modifications. Avelo does need to let folks know whats happening other than the standard P.R. BS response of "we expect to announce our HVN routes very soon". Its been 2.5 months .. start talkin, Avelo!

Amen, hopefully this week we will find out the cities to be served. It was supposed to be revealed in early July. AA still shows service ending by the end of September, kind of a shame as I have not been able to non-rev for weeks. Maybe UA will fill the gap.

airlineworker wrote:

F27500 wrote:

TerminalD wrote:

It is known that there is a significant delay. The speculation is that it is something related to the FAA oversight of a new scheduled airline (Predecessor entity was not operating scheduled), but we don’t really know. The HVN planes are ready it appears, and having them sit is expensive. So pretty much has to be a regulatory delay. It seems like Avelo is operating more reliably than Breeze ironically.

If this is the case, I do wish they would make some kind of an announcement. We have heard literally -zero- from Avelo here in New Haven since their initial announcement back on May 6. They got us all fired up , we've seen the PDF plans of the interim operations plan at HVN (modular facilities added to the existing small terminal building to enable operations to start long before the completion of the new terminal building to be built across the field).

I drove by the airport this past week and see no signs of anything starting re: modifications. Avelo does need to let folks know whats happening other than the standard P.R. BS response of "we expect to announce our HVN routes very soon". Its been 2.5 months .. start talkin, Avelo!

Amen, hopefully this week we will find out the cities to be served. It was supposed to be revealed in early July. AA still shows service ending by the end of September, kind of a shame as I have not been able to non-rev for weeks. Maybe UA will fill the gap.

Does AA leaving have anything to do with the airports deal with Avelo, or was this pre-planned?

BIG NEWS: ExxonMobil chosen as Avelo’s exclusive lubricants provider. Now let’s hope for more huge news this week.

nkops wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

F27500 wrote:

If this is the case, I do wish they would make some kind of an announcement. We have heard literally -zero- from Avelo here in New Haven since their initial announcement back on May 6. They got us all fired up , we've seen the PDF plans of the interim operations plan at HVN (modular facilities added to the existing small terminal building to enable operations to start long before the completion of the new terminal building to be built across the field).

I drove by the airport this past week and see no signs of anything starting re: modifications. Avelo does need to let folks know whats happening other than the standard P.R. BS response of "we expect to announce our HVN routes very soon". Its been 2.5 months .. start talkin, Avelo!

Amen, hopefully this week we will find out the cities to be served. It was supposed to be revealed in early July. AA still shows service ending by the end of September, kind of a shame as I have not been able to non-rev for weeks. Maybe UA will fill the gap.

Does AA leaving have anything to do with the airports deal with Avelo, or was this pre-planned?

It was pre-planned. AA Eagle (Republic) had already discontinued service at HVN once last year "due to Covid". But my understanding is that apparently in order to get at that next round of grant money, they had to reinstate service to cities they'd dropped (like HVN). But they went back in grudgingly with one poorly timed evening departure 4x per week to PHL with little to no connecting flight opportunities based on its late arrival at the hub). They've since moved it earlier, but still its a very obvious contractual obligation kind of operation/schedule they have here now, unfortunately. Sad too because pre-Covid, they were running 2 nonstops each day HVN-CLT in the EMB175. Shame they don't want to put any effort into a long-time station (US) like HVN.

Service appears to drop completely now at the end of Sept. Sad to see. Avelo will be great (if it actually happens .. and I'm starting to wonder myself now) ... but a legacy link is good for the credibility of an airport too. Perhaps if Avelo is a success here .. and if/when the new terminal is built .. replacing the embarrassing dump of a terminal we have now, AA and perhaps the UAs, DLs and WNs will have another look @ HVN.

F27500 wrote:

nkops wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

Amen, hopefully this week we will find out the cities to be served. It was supposed to be revealed in early July. AA still shows service ending by the end of September, kind of a shame as I have not been able to non-rev for weeks. Maybe UA will fill the gap.

Does AA leaving have anything to do with the airports deal with Avelo, or was this pre-planned?

It was pre-planned. AA Eagle (Republic) had already discontinued service at HVN once last year "due to Covid". But my understanding is that apparently in order to get at that next round of grant money, they had to reinstate service to cities they'd dropped (like HVN). But they went back in grudgingly with one poorly timed evening departure 4x per week to PHL with little to no connecting flight opportunities based on its late arrival at the hub). They've since moved it earlier, but still its a very obvious contractual obligation kind of operation/schedule they have here now, unfortunately. Sad too because pre-Covid, they were running 2 nonstops each day HVN-CLT in the EMB175. Shame they don't want to put any effort into a long-time station (US) like HVN.

Service appears to drop completely now at the end of Sept. Sad to see. Avelo will be great (if it actually happens .. and I'm starting to wonder myself now) ... but a legacy link is good for the credibility of an airport too. Perhaps if Avelo is a success here .. and if/when the new terminal is built .. replacing the embarrassing dump of a terminal we have now, AA and perhaps the UAs, DLs and WNs will have another look @ HVN.

The 2 HVN-CLT flights were announced in July 2020 to start in September. Never happened. The PHL flights are well supported, I have not been able to snag a non-rev seat in the last 2 months. Avelo is late in announcing the cities they will serve at HVN, getting off to a bad start. I am hoping that Avelo will do well and attract either UA with CRJ-550's to ORD or DL with E-175's to ATL. Tremendous unserved market at HVN and with the flight path cleared of trees and soon the displaced threshold on runway 20 will be moved back, runway 2-20 will be in the best shape it has ever been. DL with the A-220-100 would be a great fit if the ATL flights do well on the E-175.BDL has fought HVN for years as much of their market is from the shoreline area. Hopefully this week Avelo will reveal the new cities and frequencies.

airlineworker wrote:

F27500 wrote:

nkops wrote:

Does AA leaving have anything to do with the airports deal with Avelo, or was this pre-planned?

It was pre-planned. AA Eagle (Republic) had already discontinued service at HVN once last year "due to Covid". But my understanding is that apparently in order to get at that next round of grant money, they had to reinstate service to cities they'd dropped (like HVN). But they went back in grudgingly with one poorly timed evening departure 4x per week to PHL with little to no connecting flight opportunities based on its late arrival at the hub). They've since moved it earlier, but still its a very obvious contractual obligation kind of operation/schedule they have here now, unfortunately. Sad too because pre-Covid, they were running 2 nonstops each day HVN-CLT in the EMB175. Shame they don't want to put any effort into a long-time station (US) like HVN.

Service appears to drop completely now at the end of Sept. Sad to see. Avelo will be great (if it actually happens .. and I'm starting to wonder myself now) ... but a legacy link is good for the credibility of an airport too. Perhaps if Avelo is a success here .. and if/when the new terminal is built .. replacing the embarrassing dump of a terminal we have now, AA and perhaps the UAs, DLs and WNs will have another look @ HVN.

The 2 HVN-CLT flights were announced in July 2020 to start in September. Never happened. The PHL flights are well supported, I have not been able to snag a non-rev seat in the last 2 months. Avelo is late in announcing the cities they will serve at HVN, getting off to a bad start. I am hoping that Avelo will do well and attract either UA with CRJ-550's to ORD or DL with E-175's to ATL. Tremendous unserved market at HVN and with the flight path cleared of trees and soon the displaced threshold on runway 20 will be moved back, runway 2-20 will be in the best shape it has ever been. DL with the A-220-100 would be a great fit if the ATL flights do well on the E-175.BDL has fought HVN for years as much of their market is from the shoreline area. Hopefully this week Avelo will reveal the new cities and frequencies.

How well do you see HVN potentially attracting some further NYC suburbs such as Long Island?

caribbeanSwag wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

F27500 wrote:

It was pre-planned. AA Eagle (Republic) had already discontinued service at HVN once last year "due to Covid". But my understanding is that apparently in order to get at that next round of grant money, they had to reinstate service to cities they'd dropped (like HVN). But they went back in grudgingly with one poorly timed evening departure 4x per week to PHL with little to no connecting flight opportunities based on its late arrival at the hub). They've since moved it earlier, but still its a very obvious contractual obligation kind of operation/schedule they have here now, unfortunately. Sad too because pre-Covid, they were running 2 nonstops each day HVN-CLT in the EMB175. Shame they don't want to put any effort into a long-time station (US) like HVN.

Service appears to drop completely now at the end of Sept. Sad to see. Avelo will be great (if it actually happens .. and I'm starting to wonder myself now) ... but a legacy link is good for the credibility of an airport too. Perhaps if Avelo is a success here .. and if/when the new terminal is built .. replacing the embarrassing dump of a terminal we have now, AA and perhaps the UAs, DLs and WNs will have another look @ HVN.

The 2 HVN-CLT flights were announced in July 2020 to start in September. Never happened. The PHL flights are well supported, I have not been able to snag a non-rev seat in the last 2 months. Avelo is late in announcing the cities they will serve at HVN, getting off to a bad start. I am hoping that Avelo will do well and attract either UA with CRJ-550's to ORD or DL with E-175's to ATL. Tremendous unserved market at HVN and with the flight path cleared of trees and soon the displaced threshold on runway 20 will be moved back, runway 2-20 will be in the best shape it has ever been. DL with the A-220-100 would be a great fit if the ATL flights do well on the E-175.BDL has fought HVN for years as much of their market is from the shoreline area. Hopefully this week Avelo will reveal the new cities and frequencies.

How well do you see HVN potentially attracting some further NYC suburbs such as Long Island?

Not a chance. NYC (mainly LGA) already has good LCC presence for those on western LI. For central and eastern LI, ISP has them covered with frontier and WN. Chances are Avelo will go to the same destinations they do.

For HVN I’m thinking:

Orlando (MCO or SFB): daily
Tampa (TPA or PIE): daily
FLL: 4x weekly
PBI: 4x weekly
RSW: 4x weekly

Wildcard: MIA 3x weekly. In the Spring I could also see places like ATL and MYR come on

WNflyer1523 wrote:

For HVN I’m thinking:

Orlando (MCO or SFB): daily
Tampa (TPA or PIE): daily
FLL: 4x weekly
PBI: 4x weekly
RSW: 4x weekly

I very much like your way of thinking! And I agree. Florida service will be the mainstay .. along with maybe a MYR weekend or seasonal service. I do think a nonstop to LAS would do well here too .. IF .. the runway length makes it possible for the 737-700 to do an almost-transcon from HVN.

airlineworker wrote:

F27500 wrote:

nkops wrote:

Does AA leaving have anything to do with the airports deal with Avelo, or was this pre-planned?

It was pre-planned. AA Eagle (Republic) had already discontinued service at HVN once last year "due to Covid". But my understanding is that apparently in order to get at that next round of grant money, they had to reinstate service to cities they'd dropped (like HVN). But they went back in grudgingly with one poorly timed evening departure 4x per week to PHL with little to no connecting flight opportunities based on its late arrival at the hub). They've since moved it earlier, but still its a very obvious contractual obligation kind of operation/schedule they have here now, unfortunately. Sad too because pre-Covid, they were running 2 nonstops each day HVN-CLT in the EMB175. Shame they don't want to put any effort into a long-time station (US) like HVN.

Service appears to drop completely now at the end of Sept. Sad to see. Avelo will be great (if it actually happens .. and I'm starting to wonder myself now) ... but a legacy link is good for the credibility of an airport too. Perhaps if Avelo is a success here .. and if/when the new terminal is built .. replacing the embarrassing dump of a terminal we have now, AA and perhaps the UAs, DLs and WNs will have another look @ HVN.

The 2 HVN-CLT flights were announced in July 2020 to start in September. Never happened. The PHL flights are well supported, I have not been able to snag a non-rev seat in the last 2 months. Avelo is late in announcing the cities they will serve at HVN, getting off to a bad start. I am hoping that Avelo will do well and attract either UA with CRJ-550's to ORD or DL with E-175's to ATL. Tremendous unserved market at HVN and with the flight path cleared of trees and soon the displaced threshold on runway 20 will be moved back, runway 2-20 will be in the best shape it has ever been. DL with the A-220-100 would be a great fit if the ATL flights do well on the E-175.BDL has fought HVN for years as much of their market is from the shoreline area. Hopefully this week Avelo will reveal the new cities and frequencies.

Where do you get much of the BDL market is from the shoreline? The city of New Haven and much of the county isn't even part of the BDL core catchment area which accounts for over 67% of passengers domestically and 79% internationally. From New Haven east along the shore line, while there are multiple towns, most don't break 20,000 people and the further east you go along 95 the more bleed you have into PVD's catchment area.



source: https://bradleyairport.com/wp-content/u ... n-Full.pdf

F27500 wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

For HVN I’m thinking:

Orlando (MCO or SFB): daily
Tampa (TPA or PIE): daily
FLL: 4x weekly
PBI: 4x weekly
RSW: 4x weekly

I very much like your way of thinking! And I agree. Florida service will be the mainstay .. along with maybe a MYR weekend or seasonal service. I do think a nonstop to LAS would do well here too .. IF .. the runway length makes it possible for the 737-700 to do an almost-transcon from HVN.

Yea, MYR would be spring-fall seasonal a couple times a week. I could see LAS as well on a less than daily basis if they extend the runway

uconn99 wrote:

Parts of the BDL core area highlighted in red (including southern VT and parts of northwestern MA) are actually closer to ALB than to BDL.

Both ALB and BDL also have AA nonstop service to CLT/ORD/PHL/DCA, DL nonstop service to ATL/DTW, UA nonstop service to ORD/IAD, and WN nonstop service to BWI/MDW/DEN/MCO/TPA.

BDL has nonstop service to more markets than ALB does, and there are a few airlines such as MX, NK, and SY that currently serve BDL but not ALB.

theres an Avelo 738 flying into LGB tonight from MFE... is this a military charter? or maybe a sign of whats to come?

MDGLongBeach wrote:

theres an Avelo 738 flying into LGB tonight from MFE... is this a military charter? or maybe a sign of whats to come?

Most likely military charter and nothing more. Arrived at LGB around 11:40p and left for BUR a little after 1am.

Finally someone talks. Still no destination announcements though

https://www.nhregister.com/news/article ... 327716.php

caribbeanSwag wrote:

Finally someone talks. Still no destination announcements though

https://www.nhregister.com/news/article ... 327716.php

Can't read the story, as it's behind a pay wall .. whats it saying, basically ?

nine4nine wrote:

MDGLongBeach wrote:

theres an Avelo 738 flying into LGB tonight from MFE... is this a military charter? or maybe a sign of whats to come?

Most likely military charter and nothing more. Arrived at LGB around 11:40p and left for BUR a little after 1am.

Flew migrant children in when the originally scheduled Kaiser 737 had a mechanical (was supposed to be BRO-LGB)

airportugal310 wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

MDGLongBeach wrote:

theres an Avelo 738 flying into LGB tonight from MFE... is this a military charter? or maybe a sign of whats to come?

Most likely military charter and nothing more. Arrived at LGB around 11:40p and left for BUR a little after 1am.

Flew migrant children in when the originally scheduled Kaiser 737 had a mechanical (was supposed to be BRO-LGB)

Great new homes for all.

caribbeanSwag wrote:

BIG NEWS: ExxonMobil chosen as Avelo’s exclusive lubricants provider. Now let’s hope for more huge news this week.

Thanks for the laugh!

F27500 wrote:

caribbeanSwag wrote:

Finally someone talks. Still no destination announcements though

https://www.nhregister.com/news/article ... 327716.php

Can't read the story, as it's behind a pay wall .. whats it saying, basically ?

Not much to it; if you're fast enough you can read it, or use view source. The Executive Director of the Tweed Airport Authority isn't concerned for XP's future at HVN despite them dropping GJT and BZN. The most interesting thing was his claim that Andrew Levy will be coming "in a few weeks" to announce destinations.

F27500 wrote:

caribbeanSwag wrote:

Finally someone talks. Still no destination announcements though

https://www.nhregister.com/news/article ... 327716.php

Can't read the story, as it's behind a pay wall .. whats it saying, basically ?

Click on reload and quickly hit stop. May have to do it a few times but it always works for me.