NoLifeLine
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Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:41 am

Here's what it might be like to travel on a stand-up aeroplane seat. Looks Like a medieval torture rack.

First things first: Gaetano Perugini, engineering adviser at Aviointeriors, is keen to stress that the concept's not about creating "cattle class" and cramming in as many passengers in as possible.

The Skyrider takes up way less space than the average economy seat -- just 23 inches -- so the idea is airlines could cram in their economy seats, and still allow other passengers to book other kinds of tickets on the same flight.

Even Perugini acknowledges it's not necessarily an enjoyable experience, but he reckons for short haul, say a brief hop across Europe, it might work.

Image

Full article: https://www.nowscience.co.uk/single-post/2019/04/03/The-Future-of-Air-Travel-Could-Include-Ultra-Economy-Class-Seating
 
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Whompiez
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:52 am

Now we just need flight attendants to arm themselves with cattleprods in case we want the nuts instead of the pretzels
 
bennett123
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:58 am

I will never fly in one of these.

Think about your lower back.
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:00 am

I respect myself enough to stop flying rather than using that thing if the next seat category is too much expensive!
 
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euroflyer
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:05 am

No airline will ever propose such product to is customers. And not even talking about certification of such seat... That's just bs
Born to fly !
 
Ebmek
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:07 am

I can hear the ULCCs salivating.
 
77H
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:22 am

You’d have trouble convincing non-rev’s to take a seat like that. Given the option, it would be better to be stranded...

77H
 
Noshow
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:30 am

I hate those boxes where the feet have to be.

I'd prefer to stand upright, just belted.
Last edited by Noshow on Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:30 am

Ryanair launch new Premiere Class. :rotfl:
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
Leej
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:31 am

Why can't we see the brace position demonstrated too Mr Perugini !!
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:33 am

The extra doors required to pass evacuation time frames would negate the etra revenue from those squat seats.
 
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FabDiva
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:39 am

This guy's been touting this for years, no-one has bitten for obvious reasons but you have to admire his persistence.
 
Noshow
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:47 am

I know about some serious airline's market research about standing seats: Real passengers would accept it. Especially two groups: No nonsense business men without bags and students on a budget. We just need the right seat. Problem is you lose the bins and aircraft might need to be reconfigured for re-sale or re-lease. That adds cost. It would be something for the back cabin of a 737 or A321.
 
c933103
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:56 am

If it can indeed cut the travel cost by something like 30% including tax and airport fee then they would be a product that is attractive for flights length within the range of an hour or so.
This is a placeholder.
 
c933103
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:59 am

FabDiva wrote:
This guy's been touting this for years, no-one has bitten for obvious reasons but you have to admire his persistence.

It was not introduced into commercial aviation market simply because it didn't pass regulatory requirement, and that's now changed
This is a placeholder.
 
leghorn
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:14 pm

Dublin-Liverpool/Manchester/Birmingham fine by me.
I think airlines who are looking to expand first class or business class while not loosing market share to ULCC would be first to look at this.
 
jcwr56
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:00 pm

All that's needed is a "drop" bucket underneath the seat and there goes reductions of Lavs on the plane.
 
UALFAson
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:24 pm

c933103 wrote:
If it can indeed cut the travel cost by something like 30% including tax and airport fee then they would be a product that is attractive for flights length within the range of an hour or so.


I agree. If this meant an airline could offer like a $20 or $25 seat, I would totally do this for an hour or less.

One thing I can't tell from the picture is the height of the seat. It looks like he is squatting, which I agree would be incredibly uncomfortable. But if the seat were like a bar stool height and you could just brace your feet against the floor, again, I think young and healthy people would absolutely do that for a short time in exchange for a cheap price.

I just flew LGA-BOS last week and paid something like $150 one way for 37 minutes in the air. My work reimbursed me, but I wouldn't pay that as a leisure traveler on a random weekend getaway. I would easily drop $50 roundtrip for one of these stand-up seats, though, to visit friends, see a show, have dinner, etc.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:24 pm

Does he realise people come in all shapes and sizes?

I'm 6ft5, I think I I'd still have to book extra legroom, my bent legs would still be digging into the "seat" in front. Whereas a dwarf would have dangling legs.
 
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Seabear
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:29 pm

If this is the future of air travel, then no thanks, I'll walk.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:39 pm

Noshow wrote:
I know about some serious airline's market research about standing seats: Real passengers would accept it. Especially two groups: No nonsense business men without bags and students on a budget.


I would think "no nonsense business men" would be more likely to fly in business class. And without bags? They still have a carry-on if they're going anywhere longer than a day trip.
 
airzona11
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:40 pm

This could make air travel on short routes economical. For those 30min-1hour flights, basically, like a bus.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:51 pm

Give me a $10 flight from BOS-NYC and I'll gladly stand for the 45 minutes. Anything past DCA though and I can't see even price enticing me enough.
@DadCelo
 
SaschaYHZ
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:53 pm

I could handle this for maybe a sub-one hour flight. Like, maybe 40 mins max. No way this would be good for long haul (April fools?)
 
StrandedAtMKG
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:56 pm

This is what happens when your company doesn't employ any disabled people. Legally we have a right to be accommodated on airplanes, and this just would not cut it.
 
bennett123
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:56 pm

The cheap skate businessman would get to the meeting OK, but would only be able to think about his backache.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:09 pm

From the OP link:
"If a European carrier commits to installing the seats on their aircraft then the company would apply to aviation authorities for proper certification, said Menoud."

If... A big if.
Certain aircraft would do well configured with these 'seats'. E.g, A319NEO or CS300 with modified exits. Both would hit evacuation limits before other issues.

Lightsaber
You know nothing John Snow.
 
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:23 pm

Every field seems to have that one bad idea that everyone hates yet somehow lingers. Outside of Drunk Parker and that a-hole who runs Ryanair, no one in their right mind would touch this (and even they haven’t to date), yet it keeps coming up.
 
rampbro
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:42 pm

BrooklyBOMgal wrote:
Looks like Sam Chui


It's gotta be....

@N178UA
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:53 pm

This isn't going to revolutionize prices, though. It would just cheapen them a bit. These take up more than 3/4 of the space of conventional ULCC seats.

If you could fit people in half the space or less and certify it somehow, then you might have something that could really drop prices.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:56 pm

FabDiva wrote:
This guy's been touting this for years, no-one has bitten for obvious reasons but you have to admire his persistence.


No, at some point what advocates call persistence is really just inability to learn.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:56 pm

It does not appear that this is aimed at ULCCs, but at carriers that wasn't more space for premium passengers. An aircraft can only have x seats on board, and a 23" pitch will exceed that.
 
c933103
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:03 pm

lightsaber wrote:
From the OP link:
"If a European carrier commits to installing the seats on their aircraft then the company would apply to aviation authorities for proper certification, said Menoud."

If... A big if.
Certain aircraft would do well configured with these 'seats'. E.g, A319NEO or CS300 with modified exits. Both would hit evacuation limits before other issues.

Lightsaber

Carriers could have put more premium seats in the front. But then if your aircraft was only intended for short hop then how many premium seats can you sell? And short hop passengers won't care that much about seat pitch either so you can't really use extra seat pitch from compressing the last few rows as a selling point either
This is a placeholder.
 
c933103
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:04 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
It does not appear that this is aimed at ULCCs, but at carriers that wasn't more space for premium passengers. An aircraft can only have x seats on board, and a 23" pitch will exceed that.

The thing is how many passenger would pay to fly in premium class on 1 hours or so long routes that this class of seat is aiming at?
This is a placeholder.
 
smartplane
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:19 pm

c933103 wrote:
FabDiva wrote:
This guy's been touting this for years, no-one has bitten for obvious reasons but you have to admire his persistence.

It was not introduced into commercial aviation market simply because it didn't pass regulatory requirement, and that's now changed

A few airlines have looked at such a concept for 'filling' awkward spaces unsuitable for conventional seating.

From a regulatory perspective, the concept isn't fully tested or approved. One qualification is seating units need to be installed facing backwards, as there are potential impact issues with heads making contact with the panel or even heads of passengers in front. Also screening issues with the weight and size of passengers.
 
Adipocere
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:20 pm

Maybe this could undercut a Shinkansen full of passengers on Tokyo-Osaka or something...
 
LH658
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:22 pm

no neck support good luck during jet lag.
 
dtw9
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:27 pm

How would you get in the "Brace" position in case of an emergency. Not to mention anyone that cheap would not pay to have their luggage checked, so where will all the extra overheads go.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:15 pm

dtw9 wrote:
How would you get in the "Brace" position in case of an emergency. Not to mention anyone that cheap would not pay to have their luggage checked, so where will all the extra overheads go.

The brace position becomes much less useful with a shoulder strap
 
777PHX
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:18 pm

StrandedAtMKG wrote:
This is what happens when your company doesn't employ any disabled people. Legally we have a right to be accommodated on airplanes, and this just would not cut it.


That was my first thought. This won't pass muster of ADA here in the US. Will. Not. Happen.
 
PerVG
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:31 pm

The briefest "hop across europe" I have ever done was LIS-MAD, it's barely a 1 hour flight and there's just no way in hell I would do it in on of those contraptions. Let alone anything longer than that.
This is one of those things that needs to be killed by the regulators before it gains any traction, IMHO.
 
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OA940
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:54 pm

Oh for God's sale not this thing again. There's a thread about this 3 times a year at minimum. We've been over the ''it's never gonna get certified because of at least a hundred reasons which involve both customers and certification''.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
LAXLHR
Posts: 414
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:55 pm

UALFAson wrote:
c933103 wrote:
If it can indeed cut the travel cost by something like 30% including tax and airport fee then they would be a product that is attractive for flights length within the range of an hour or so.


I agree. If this meant an airline could offer like a $20 or $25 seat, I would totally do this for an hour or less.

One thing I can't tell from the picture is the height of the seat. It looks like he is squatting, which I agree would be incredibly uncomfortable. But if the seat were like a bar stool height and you could just brace your feet against the floor, again, I think young and healthy people would absolutely do that for a short time in exchange for a cheap price.

I just flew LGA-BOS last week and paid something like $150 one way for 37 minutes in the air. My work reimbursed me, but I wouldn't pay that as a leisure traveler on a random weekend getaway. I would easily drop $50 roundtrip for one of these stand-up seats, though, to visit friends, see a show, have dinner, etc.


Years of back pain to save $20-25 LMAO! Good luck with that!.
BA JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL QQ UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR PG MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN PC LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
drdisque
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:51 pm

Seats like this show up in the media about once a year.

They will never be certified as safe.

They will never be ordered by any airline as aircraft are already reaching the limits of their evacuation doors with existing seats.
 
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LAXdenizen
Posts: 42
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:55 pm

This seat is intended ONLY to become the new base fare. The current cattle car seats will be considered upgrades in 10 years.
 
winginit
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:05 pm

Alas, a way to make Jet Airways profitable!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:09 pm

airzona11 wrote:
This could make air travel on short routes economical. For those 30min-1hour flights, basically, like a bus.


How often do you stand up in a bus for 1 hour?

And remember, a 1 hour flight can quickly turn into 3 hours in case of a delay, missed slot or long taxi times.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8717
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:22 pm

I thought that strap hanging was bad enough.

IMO, this semi crouched position looks more uncomfortable still.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 755
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Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:22 pm

All that's needed is a "drop" bucket underneath the seat and there goes reductions of Lavs on the plane.


Don't give Spirit any ideas. Heck, they'd probably charge for the bucket! :lol:

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