meesh42
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:05 pm

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:36 am

euroflyer wrote:
No airline will ever propose such product to is customers. And not even talking about certification of such seat... That's just bs


There is one who would, Ryanair
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:42 am

LovePrunesAnet wrote:
Reminds me of the restraints for a standup roller coaster. For those who aren't familiar, you sit on a saddle type device. The saddle absolutely CRUSHES "the boys" with each bump.
Things I immediately notice that make me think this will never fly:
• how do you reach your under-seat personal item in flight?
• different heights of people will require different heights of the saddle. Ever seat has to be able to adjust vertically, which this doesn't appear to do. Just isn't a practical solution AT ALL
• how does window person climb over middle or aisle person to go to bathroom? They are trapped
• accommodating tall people who will be standing means no overhead bins, no oxygen masks, no lights, no air.
• what about fatties? They're not gonna fit. They have to take the walk of shame when they don't fit the coaster seat. Not a matter of "an extension" here.
• where do you put your drink when they do beverage service?

overall this is a huge FAIL. completely stupid. next.


I don't see it working but a couple of points. The window person will get out to go to the toilet the way they do now - the others will move to the aisle.

Drink service - hold it ! You don't need a table to have a drink. How do you think someone has a drink at a sports event ? No tray tables.

Maybe a few rows of this will see enough people willing to do it for a short flight. Plenty of people stand on trains for an hour.
 
leghorn
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:40 am

There is a tray on the seat backs. Without the opportunity for ancillary sales the airlines wouldn't buy these. A portion of travellers will buy refreshments and luggage.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:58 am

leghorn wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
This idea does not save money for the passenger since airlines will not pass on the save to the final ticket price on a medium and long term (start selling them cheap and gradually increase price - just like with the no hold luggage fare).

Do you think Ryanair are no passing on the savings when people who are willing to abide by their sometimes arbitrary rules book the £9.99 and £14.99 flights out of the UK where there is an airport departure tax of £13?
Ryanair make roughly 8 euro per passenger flown. If that is not "passing on savings" then I don't know what is.


It is not really their intention and the percentage of people that benefit is not as high as you might think. Flight plus meal plus luggage plus print you boarding pass at the airport and on and on and on... A lot of Ryanair flights cost more than a cheap legacy Airline Ticket. We have the headlines of this and that paying next to nothing but when you look it from a wider perspective, they are minorities.

If most passengers paid only the fares you mentioned (no ancillaries, etc...), Ryanair would be bankrupt ages ago.
 
leghorn
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:34 am

Jomar777 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
This idea does not save money for the passenger since airlines will not pass on the save to the final ticket price on a medium and long term (start selling them cheap and gradually increase price - just like with the no hold luggage fare).

Do you think Ryanair are no passing on the savings when people who are willing to abide by their sometimes arbitrary rules book the £9.99 and £14.99 flights out of the UK where there is an airport departure tax of £13?
Ryanair make roughly 8 euro per passenger flown. If that is not "passing on savings" then I don't know what is.


It is not really their intention and the percentage of people that benefit is not as high as you might think. Flight plus meal plus luggage plus print you boarding pass at the airport and on and on and on... A lot of Ryanair flights cost more than a cheap legacy Airline Ticket. We have the headlines of this and that paying next to nothing but when you look it from a wider perspective, they are minorities.

If most passengers paid only the fares you mentioned (no ancillaries, etc...), Ryanair would be bankrupt ages ago.

Nobody is forcing you to purchase the ancillaries.

"A lot of Ryanair flights cost more than a cheap legacy Airline Ticket."
Put up or shut up. Where is your proof.
I can go to their annual report and divide their profit by the number of passengers carried to arrive at my figure.
I can refer to countless times the management of Ryanair have reiterated that their strategy for growth is "load factor active/yield passive". In layman terms that means that they are not making much per passenger but instead would like to make profit out of many passengers.

Anyhow, Ryanair won't be the first candidate for this. Their 737max planes will be configured at 197 seats. They can't go beyond 200.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:17 am

leghorn wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
Do you think Ryanair are no passing on the savings when people who are willing to abide by their sometimes arbitrary rules book the £9.99 and £14.99 flights out of the UK where there is an airport departure tax of £13?
Ryanair make roughly 8 euro per passenger flown. If that is not "passing on savings" then I don't know what is.


It is not really their intention and the percentage of people that benefit is not as high as you might think. Flight plus meal plus luggage plus print you boarding pass at the airport and on and on and on... A lot of Ryanair flights cost more than a cheap legacy Airline Ticket. We have the headlines of this and that paying next to nothing but when you look it from a wider perspective, they are minorities.

If most passengers paid only the fares you mentioned (no ancillaries, etc...), Ryanair would be bankrupt ages ago.

Nobody is forcing you to purchase the ancillaries.

"A lot of Ryanair flights cost more than a cheap legacy Airline Ticket."
Put up or shut up. Where is your proof.
I can go to their annual report and divide their profit by the number of passengers carried to arrive at my figure.
I can refer to countless times the management of Ryanair have reiterated that their strategy for growth is "load factor active/yield passive". In layman terms that means that they are not making much per passenger but instead would like to make profit out of many passengers.

Anyhow, Ryanair won't be the first candidate for this. Their 737max planes will be configured at 197 seats. They can't go beyond 200.


Wow - did not know I was writing to O'Leary himself!!

Do I need proof that a Ryanair flight (with ancilliaries) can cost more than a legacy Ticket?? Just go to Stanstead Airport and talk to the first 5 passengers you find and see what they say. I could also load here a lot of reports, blogs, etc etc etc but I guess you can use something called GOOGLE yourself and do not need me.

Annual Report- OK - time for me to say - Put Up or Shut Up.

As per your last statement, again I state - if Ryanair was making as less as you so state, they would be out of business.

Nobody is forced to buy anything from Ryanair apart from the ticket but they do a good job on pushing them as per below:

https://skift.com/2018/10/22/ryanair-is ... of-flyers/
https://www.trbusiness.com/regional-new ... get/142763
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news ... a-charges/
 
leghorn
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:27 am

That rebuttal is very short on details.

Why don't you go to https://investor.ryanair.com/ and look at the profit figures for the last number of years and divide it by the number of passengers that used their services in those years and then come back to me and tell me how Ryanair is fleecing Customers.

I've done this myself and worked through their profit figures and can see they are not fleecing the travelling public but you are a "Believer" and I can't disabuse you of the belief that Ryanair are the Devil incarnate. Facts have no impact on the belief system of Believers.

I've got better things to do than convince a person who refuses to accept Facts why their beliefs are leading them astray.
 
Indy
Posts: 4843
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:04 pm

Honestly, this kind of trash needs to be banned globally. The people who have created these concepts need to be booted from the industry. They are what is wrong with the entire system. They have zero respect for the traveling public. Absolutely zero. If they did they would be far too ashamed to even put these ideas on paper. This concept is ridiculous, very uncomfortable looking, and surely it must be unsafe. You have no way of bracing during a crash. This belongs in the waste bin of bad ideas. Seriously people... if you are pitching these kind of ideas at work... find a new job.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
FatCat
Posts: 909
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:06 am

this is just a marketing move.
we - some more, some less - aviation experts know that those seats have a huge safety issue.
pregnant women cannot be seated on those.
also infants cannot be carried on parents' laps
in case of an evacuation, the wounded / dead uncouncious person on seat C / D will block entirely the other two with his torso
there is no possibility to brace
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
JonathanRP
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:38 pm

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:29 am

Anyone that's used London's tube network at rush hour, would know that it's not uncommon to have to stand, with not even anything to lean against for up to an hour. I could definitely see a market for healthy, able-bodied people on a tight budget doing short flights with this (Domestic UK or London-Amsterdam).

That being said, they would surely have to redesign the aircraft to increase the number of doors?

Also, I doubt this will go ahead anytime soon as there is no provision for people that are pregnant, disabled or less able to stand. Unless, perhaps these seats were used alongside "normal", seated ones.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8860
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:03 am

The number of Domestic UK is probably not sufficient to make this viable.

In particular, FR has a quite limited internal network.
 
User avatar
hvusslax
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:20 am

Noshow wrote:
I hate those boxes where the feet have to be.

I'd prefer to stand upright, just belted.


Agreed. This looks like an intensely uncomfortable position for more than a few minutes. Just standing (with some support) would be preferable.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8860
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:35 am

Another thought.

Does anyone have figures for the aisle height of the main contenders for this configuration;

A220
A320
B737
CRJ
DHC8
ERJ

Clearly the cabin height reduces as you move towards the windows as well.

As for cabin luggage, forget it.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8860
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:20 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Bra ... stinations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mancheste ... stinations

As can be seen, HS2 will have a significant effect on both LBA and MAN.

Modifying aircraft including certification is going to be costly, if the market will reduce post 2027/2033 then that is another nail in the coffin.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Welcome to 'Cattle Class'

Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:52 pm

I had a much better idea. More like some of the stand-up roller coasters seats, a small seat that is essentially at stand-up height on a pole with pegs for foot rest, a padded, pull down shoulder contraption that replaces the seatbelt and locks you in and in that a pull down screen/hood that provides your IFE or gives you total privacy to sleep. It would be ideal for flights under 4 hours. You could basically stand and have good lower body blood flow, you could pull up your feet on the pegs (like a bar stool) and the shoulder contraption would hold you head for sleeping , no neck pillow required....And from a saftey standpoint you would be more secure and could pull a lot more G's!!!!!

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