QF108
Topic Author
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:29 pm

Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:09 am

Hi A.nutters ..am wondering what the status of Fireflys Singapore ops Seletar/Changi. Have found plenty of articles about delays in the start up to Seletar due to ILS issues. Have those flights no started? And have they resolved the issues and are back at Changi? The Changi website has check in rows but the only flight info is code share flights with MAS. Thanks M
Blessed are the Cheesemakers !
 
EBT
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:04 am

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:17 am

Basically all Firefly ATR flights to Singapore stopped in December after the airline couldn't meet the deadline to move to all turboprop operators from Changi to Seletar. There has been a bit of a dispute between Singapore and Malaysia over plans to install an ILS at Seletar, because of the potential impact on building heights in Johor. CAA Malaysia has not signed off on Firefly's procedures to operate into Seletar, and Changi is practically closed to turboprops now, so it is pretty much at a stalemate. Silly thing is, Singapore flights were a real money spinner for Firefly, which is ultimately owned by the Malaysian government, so you'd think they could sort it out. But alas not - at least for now
 
RawSushi
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:02 am

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am

Detailed history here:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... t-10997022

In short, the Malaysian Government, faced by their inability to fulfil electoral promises (they made a bunch of lofty promises assuming they won't win, and now that they are have unexpectedly won, have no idea how to fulfil them), decided to fabricate a whole bunch of irrational disputes (including those related to water supply and territorial water limits) with Singapore in order to distract its people from their own Government's incompetence.

Firefly (one of their very own), became the biggest collateral damage as a result.

They were supposed to have till end of March to resolve the dispute. But it's already April and no news so far.
 
RawSushi
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:02 am

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:57 am

Latest update:
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-as ... n-minister

I wouldn't count on any statements made from the Malaysian side though. There's been an astounding level of flip-flopping and ministers contradicting each others' words.
 
QF108
Topic Author
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:29 pm

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:41 am

Thanks for the detailed replies EBT and Rawsushi...Singapore and Seletar still show on the Firefly website so couldn't work it all out.
Blessed are the Cheesemakers !
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1596
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:41 am

RawSushi wrote:
Detailed history here:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... t-10997022

In short, the Malaysian Government, faced by their inability to fulfil electoral promises (they made a bunch of lofty promises assuming they won't win, and now that they are have unexpectedly won, have no idea how to fulfil them), decided to fabricate a whole bunch of irrational disputes (including those related to water supply and territorial water limits) with Singapore in order to distract its people from their own Government's incompetence.

Firefly (one of their very own), became the biggest collateral damage as a result.

They were supposed to have till end of March to resolve the dispute. But it's already April and no news so far.

Nice to bring in politic into the discussion, if it wasn't for Singapore cockiness, things would have been better handled. The air dispute is for Malaysia airspace, what rights does Singapore has over governing Malaysia airspace if the latter asks for it back? Regarding territorial dispute, it is laughable that Singapore did land reclamation and expand their so-called sea boundary. What a joke!

Firefly has been a victim due to Singapore insisting to move turboprop service to Seletar Airport and gave away their slots to other airlines without all formalities being put in place. And they decided to install ILS at Selatar which Malaysia has strongly objected as it would be detrimental to the Pasir Gudang port and shipping operations in Johor. Why Malaysia need to limit on their development just because Singapore wants ILS to be installed and without formally informing their counterpart in Malaysia?

Since we are on the topic on Malaysia politic, since when Malaysia Government said they are unable to fulfill their promises, they will eventually, but only need more time after sorting out the financial health status. You must be one of those Singaporeans being brain washed by mainstream media and always look down on Malaysians. Read some other news sources for once.

To reply poster, the service will resume within first week of April 2019. https://themalaysianreserve.com/2019/03 ... ext-month/
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1724
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:48 am

juliuswong wrote:
Nice to bring in politic into the discussion, if it wasn't for Singapore cockiness, things would have been better handled. The air dispute is for Malaysia airspace, what rights does Singapore has over governing Malaysia airspace if the latter asks for it back? Regarding territorial dispute, it is laughable that Singapore did land reclamation and expand their so-called sea boundary. What a joke!


Sorry Julius, but you know he does have a point. This is all political posturing, the PM flexing his powers to antagonize Singapore, his bête noire, again.

Funny thing is the same guy is harping about MH losses without realizing that his actions re:FY & Singapore is contributing to it!
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
Dast88
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:32 am

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:54 am

Firefly was made aware of the impending shift of turboprop operations around 2014. In initial discussions it was noted that Seletar did not have an ILS approach and Firefly stressed that an ILS is required. To the credit of the Singapore authorities an ILS was installed and the hardware was in place for the Dec 2019 start of operations. The approach, however needed to be approved by the Malaysian civil authorities as Seletar is right on the border but Malaysian authorities has so far declined to approve the ILS approach from the north.
Firefly was not allowed to continue operations into Changi when it became apparent that the ILS would not be commissioned on the 1st December 2018 with the reason being their slots had already been re-assigned to other airlines. This was viewed as a tactic to force Malaysia to approve the ILS approach. Unfortunately Malaysia stood firm and cited restrictions on the continued development in Pasir Gudang (on the Malaysian side of the border just a few kms to the north of Seletar) being the primary reason the approval was not granted. At the end of December 18 Malaysia imposed a restricted area in Pasir Gudang up to 5000ft which is smack in the middle of the northern approach into Seletar, reason for the restriction is that it is used for military training. This resulted in an emergency meeting called by the Singapore government on the 2nd January in Kuala Lumpur. The Restricted area was deferred until the 31st March 2019, it is now back in effect.
The main reason for all this brouhaha is that Malaysia wants to recover control of its airspace over parts of Malaysia, control which was handed to Singapore 1974 as Malaysia did not have the capability. Now that it has the capability it wants back the control of the airspace. Singapore is not willing to handover the airspace back to Malaysia, it is not even willing to discuss a reasonable timeline for the handover (it is not an overnight thing). The events early last year in Qatar demonstrated the importance of airspace control, especially to a nation which depends heavily on aviation.
There are other secondary areas which need to be resolved between the two countries. Another is that Malaysia is seeking to renegotiate/increase the price of fresh water, which Malaysia sells to Singapore at a rate of 3 Malaysian cents per 1,000 Gallons. The last time this was discussed was in 1961 when Singapore was under British rule. Again there is no willingness from Singapore to come to the negotiating table. The recent issue on maritime borders also demonstrates the current reluctance of both parties to come to a diplomatic solution.
The Malaysian government has shown remarkable resistance to be bullied and its sticking to its guns by standing it ground as apart from Firefly’s operations into Singapore it has nothing much to lose.

Poor Firefly is merely a pawn in the game.

Dass
 
cskok8
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:37 am

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:21 am

We would rather have incompetent ministers than the world's greatest kleptocrat, thank you very much
 
69bug
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:26 pm

Good one.. We kicked the kleptocrat out! I'm now waiting to see what Singapore does in the next elections as there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction with the current lot. Enough to cause a change?. I don't think so but the govt seems worried as they're planning to push thru a 'fake news' law which is what the Malaysian kleptocrat did.
 
69bug
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:28 pm

Duplicate

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:26 pm

Double post
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 932
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:36 pm

Dast88 wrote:
Poor Firefly is merely a pawn in the game.

Thanks for the summary.

Yes, in context to what is at stake for both countries, Firefly's and Seletar Airport's predicaments are not significant enough for either government to concede. There is far more at stake and I foresee that this issue will take some time to be resolved.
 
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flee
Posts: 932
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:11 am

Singapore withdraws Seletar Airport ILS, Malaysia suspends Pasir Gudang restricted area
Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... g-11418642
 
c933103
Posts: 3690
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:58 am

RawSushi wrote:
Detailed history here:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... t-10997022

In short, the Malaysian Government, faced by their inability to fulfil electoral promises (they made a bunch of lofty promises assuming they won't win, and now that they are have unexpectedly won, have no idea how to fulfil them), decided to fabricate a whole bunch of irrational disputes (including those related to water supply and territorial water limits) with Singapore in order to distract its people from their own Government's incompetence.

Firefly (one of their very own), became the biggest collateral damage as a result.

They were supposed to have till end of March to resolve the dispute. But it's already April and no news so far.

Weren't those dispute being presented last time the president was elected too?
This is a placeholder.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1724
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:23 am

cskok8 wrote:
We would rather have incompetent ministers than the world's greatest kleptocrat, thank you very much


Speak for yourself. The current administration are not only incompetent, but are themselves kleptocrats as well.

flee wrote:
Singapore withdraws Seletar Airport ILS, Malaysia suspends Pasir Gudang restricted area
Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... g-11418642


A solution that doesn't require 3 months of negotiations. An example of cutting one's nose to spite one's face!
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
AngMoh
Posts: 968
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:03 am

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:47 am

Firefly resumes flights to Singapore and is first flight into revamped Seletar airport:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... e-11464544
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 742 743 744 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2022
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:01 pm

"Singapore and Malaysia will instead work together to develop GPS-based instrument approach procedures for Seletar Airport."
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... e-11464544

Color me puzzled. How would a new GPS approach "solve" the airspace problem "created" by the withdrawn ILS approach?

For those new to this imbroglio, Seletar is an area in the north of Singapore where the RAF built a small airbase in the colonial era. Post-war, the airbase was converted into a GA airport, and recently into a commuter airport. The R21 approach to the sole (03/21) runway at Seletar Airport (IATA: XPS)
https://goo.gl/maps/DEQRpXL96TremiSn6
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seletar_Airport
passes over Pasir Gudang on the Malaysia side of the channel separating Singapore from Malaysia.
Last edited by WPvsMW on Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:07 pm

Presumably as GPS approaches can be curved or dog legged to avoid 'obsticles' rather than a straight in ILS

WPvsMW wrote:
"Singapore and Malaysia will instead work together to develop GPS-based instrument approach procedures for Seletar Airport."
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... e-11464544

Color me puzzled. How would a new GPS approach "solve" the airspace problem "created" by the withdrawn ILS approach?
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2022
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Firefly Singapore Ops

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:20 pm

Sort of a mini-Kaitek, then? Buzzing the barges in the channel then a hard descending bank. What fun. Why not an LCY approach... last minute dive to the piano keys?

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