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LAXintl
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LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:29 pm

LAWA has issued a required notice of Preparation/Initial Study (NOP/IS) pursuant to environmental regulations for the proposed development of a
Concourse 0 and Terminal 9 facilities.

Concourse 0 would be an 11-gate concourse facility east of Terminal 1, while Terminal 9 would be a new 12-gate international and domestic passenger terminal southeast of the Sepulveda/ Century Boulevard intersection.

The proposals are part of a North Airfield safety and efficiency project that would see the reconfiguration of runway exits, taxiways, and removal of most remote gates on the western side of the airport.

Image
Image
Image

Airfield & Terminal Modernization Project
https://www.lawa.org/ATMP

=
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Fargo
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:35 pm

LAXintl wrote:
LAWA has issued a required notice of Preparation/Initial Study (NOP/IS) pursuant to environmental regulations for the proposed development of a
Concourse 0 and Terminal 9 facilities.

Concourse 0 would be an 11-gate concourse facility east of Terminal 1, while Terminal 9 would be a new 12-gate international and domestic passenger terminal southeast of the Sepulveda/ Century Boulevard intersection.

The proposals are part of a North Airfield safety and efficiency project that would see the reconfiguration of runway exits, taxiways, and removal of most remote gates on the western side of the airport.

Image
Image
Image

Airfield & Terminal Modernization Project
https://www.lawa.org/ATMP

=


Interesting. Isn’t UA suppose to get a decent portion, of not all of T9?
 
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UPlog
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:37 pm

Well, Southwest and United should be happy.

For United along with adjacent construction of new hangar facility, and being able to colocate with some Star partners into T-9 they should have good room for growth in coming decade.
 
tphuang
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:37 pm

sounds like good news to WN and UA unless I'm missing something here.
 
tcaeyx
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:38 pm

Fargo wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
LAWA has issued a required notice of Preparation/Initial Study (NOP/IS) pursuant to environmental regulations for the proposed development of a
Concourse 0 and Terminal 9 facilities.

Concourse 0 would be an 11-gate concourse facility east of Terminal 1, while Terminal 9 would be a new 12-gate international and domestic passenger terminal southeast of the Sepulveda/ Century Boulevard intersection.

The proposals are part of a North Airfield safety and efficiency project that would see the reconfiguration of runway exits, taxiways, and removal of most remote gates on the western side of the airport.

Image
Image
Image

Airfield & Terminal Modernization Project
https://www.lawa.org/ATMP

=


Interesting. Isn’t UA suppose to get a decent portion, of not all of T9?


I'd imagine most Star Alliance carriers will move from TBIT to T9. UA definitely does not need that many wide body gates.
 
stlgph
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:44 pm

United has been championing T9 for years. The last thing they're going to do is give it all to Star Alliance carriers, especially with the new Mid Field Terminal coming in for TBIT carriers.
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Fargo
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:44 pm

tcaeyx wrote:
Fargo wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
LAWA has issued a required notice of Preparation/Initial Study (NOP/IS) pursuant to environmental regulations for the proposed development of a
Concourse 0 and Terminal 9 facilities.

Concourse 0 would be an 11-gate concourse facility east of Terminal 1, while Terminal 9 would be a new 12-gate international and domestic passenger terminal southeast of the Sepulveda/ Century Boulevard intersection.

The proposals are part of a North Airfield safety and efficiency project that would see the reconfiguration of runway exits, taxiways, and removal of most remote gates on the western side of the airport.

Image
Image
Image

Airfield & Terminal Modernization Project
https://www.lawa.org/ATMP

=


Interesting. Isn’t UA suppose to get a decent portion, of not all of T9?


I'd imagine most Star Alliance carriers will move from TBIT to T9. UA definitely does not need that many wide body gates.


But there should be some room for UA to grow domestically right? Arguably, UA is the weakest domestically of the US3/WN at LAX.
 
SRT75
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:48 pm

So where do FedEx and the cargo operators go?
 
CAL
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:52 pm

Does anyone have numbers (%) for how much each airline has at LAX?
 
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:55 pm

Good news.

The gates are needed now!

And ground transportation. Talk about a need for the boring company...

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Ezra
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:58 pm

Does Terminal 0 mean that In-n-Out would have to close?
 
9w748capt
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:00 pm

Oh great - as if traffic at LAX could get any worse! Are they really going to call it concourse 0? That just sounds funny.
 
FX1816
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:02 pm

SRT75 wrote:
So where do FedEx and the cargo operators go?


FedEx is moving to ONT.
 
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:03 pm

Ezra wrote:
Does Terminal 0 mean that In-n-Out would have to close?


In-N-Out is north of RWY24R, this would be south of RWY24L.
 
airzona11
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:04 pm

What happens with all AA birds nest? That is a lot of flights.

I just arrived via the remote TBIT gates, as an AvGeek, very cool views, but the overall experience was a big time suck and even made a 1:45min connection tight.
 
E90SLAM
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:06 pm

Ezra wrote:
Does Terminal 0 mean that In-n-Out would have to close?


No, In-n-out is further north on Sepulveda Blvd.
Concourse 0 will take the Park'N Fly open lot spaces.
 
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:08 pm

Huge perk I noticed is that T9 can be accessed via car without having to enter the gauntlet of traffic west of Sepulveda. Oh yeah, additional gates are nice too.

T9 could be built as grand-looking at ORD T5 or the new ORD T2 and really make it a showcase structure that everyone will see when driving in on Century Blvd.
Last edited by jetblastdubai on Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mcogator
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:09 pm

CAL wrote:
Does anyone have numbers (%) for how much each airline has at LAX?

https://www.lawa.org/en/lawa-investor-r ... statistics
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WN732
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:11 pm

Ezra wrote:
Does Terminal 0 mean that In-n-Out would have to close?


No. That just takes out some of the parking lot
 
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:15 pm

FX1816 wrote:
SRT75 wrote:
So where do FedEx and the cargo operators go?


FedEx is moving to ONT.


Why would these new terminals affect cargo carriers? Their ops are on the south side of the runways, way from all the construction.
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continental004
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:17 pm

I'm cringing looking at these pics at the thought of all the traffic jams caused by the construction and the two new terminals. As if it already wasn't bad enough at LAX.
 
ScottB
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:22 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Oh great - as if traffic at LAX could get any worse! Are they really going to call it concourse 0? That just sounds funny.


It doesn't sound like the "Concourse 0" name would be likely to appear on any signage; it'd most likely just be treated as an expanded Terminal 1. The gate renumbering at T1 which occurred with the recent remodel/rebuild ended up with the gates now being numbered from 9 to 18, and the current Gate 9 would be eliminated to build a connector to the new Concourse 0. 11A might also be gone or moved based on the diagrams in the OP.

LAXintl wrote:
Concourse 0 would be an 11-gate concourse facility east of Terminal 1


I'm a little surprised they didn't choose to go with a double-loaded design for the concourse, although the available space might have been tight if they wanted two taxilanes in the alley between T1 and C0.
 
ikramerica
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:25 pm

The funky designs will likely get more linear/angular. Also, they say walkway across sepulveda, but nothing about it being secure. Would have to be secure.
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:28 pm

ScottB wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Oh great - as if traffic at LAX could get any worse! Are they really going to call it concourse 0? That just sounds funny.


It doesn't sound like the "Concourse 0" name would be likely to appear on any signage; it'd most likely just be treated as an expanded Terminal 1. The gate renumbering at T1 which occurred with the recent remodel/rebuild ended up with the gates now being numbered from 9 to 18, and the current Gate 9 would be eliminated to build a connector to the new Concourse 0. 11A might also be gone or moved based on the diagrams in the OP.

LAXintl wrote:
Concourse 0 would be an 11-gate concourse facility east of Terminal 1


I'm a little surprised they didn't choose to go with a double-loaded design for the concourse, although the available space might have been tight if they wanted two taxilanes in the alley between T1 and C0.

Concourse ZERO makes sense based on the LAX numbering scheme. 9 will be sacrificed to C0, so you would have 11 gates number 01-09 with 2 A/B gates.

T9 would have 90-99 with 2 A/B gates (from that drawing I'd say 93A/B and 94A/B).
Last edited by ikramerica on Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:29 pm

continental004 wrote:
I'm cringing looking at these pics at the thought of all the traffic jams caused by the construction and the two new terminals. As if it already wasn't bad enough at LAX.


It's horrendous for sure, but so much of that congestion is rental car shuttles, hotel shuttles, and Uber pickups, all of which should be moved off the terminal roads and onto the people mover to a big consolidated facility.
 
E90SLAM
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 pm

The down side I believe will be the traffic jam on Sepulveda Tunnel from I-105.
And with the elimination the "by-pass" from the North to Terminal 1, the Sepulveda/Century Blvd junction will be quite horrible.

We will see how much the APM will help out the traffic situation.
 
FSDan
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:39 pm

Once these facilities come online, I could see things working out something like this:

T1 (including new Concourse 0): WN (international arrivals still at TBIT?), B6, NK, F9, G4, SY
T2+T3+North TBIT: DL + international partners
T4+T5+South TBIT: AA + international partners
T6: AS, HA
T7+T8+T9: UA + international partners
TBIT+Midfield: Non-aligned international airlines

We'll see, I guess. I don't know if there's any possibility of WN sharing the new Concourse 0 with the other domestic LCCs, but 11 gates seems like too many for just WN to use in addition to all the gates they currently have in T1. And B6, NK, G4, and SY will need to move somewhere if AA is going to close down the Eagle's Nest and move regional ops into T4/T5...
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ScottB
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:53 pm

FSDan wrote:
We'll see, I guess. I don't know if there's any possibility of WN sharing the new Concourse 0 with the other domestic LCCs, but 11 gates seems like too many for just WN to use in addition to all the gates they currently have in T1. And B6, NK, G4, and SY will need to move somewhere if AA is going to close down the Eagle's Nest and move regional ops into T4/T5...


Well, the carriers benefiting most from this plan would be AA & UA, so it's not entirely unreasonable to expect them to give up some facilities. Maybe B6 would end up with some gates in T7 or T9. WN has a bit over 130 departures from LAX with 12 or 13 gates, and if they have any plans to expand they're going to want more gates. I don't know that they'd want 11, but I also doubt there'd be room for all of B6/NK/G4/SY.
 
NorthernPyro
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:54 pm

IMO LAX really needs a complete rebuild with less/larger terminals. But I understand that there just isn't the money for it.
 
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UPlog
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:58 pm

What happens with AA and them losing their AA Eagle terminal? Where do all those RJ ops go?

Also the Western Airlines complex and hangar used by DL today gets razed to make way for T-9.
 
gmcc
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:58 pm

FSDan wrote:
Once these facilities come online, I could see things working out something like this:

T1 (including new Concourse 0): WN (international arrivals still at TBIT?), B6, NK, F9, G4, SY
T2+T3+North TBIT: DL + international partners
T4+T5+South TBIT: AA + international partners
T6: AS, HA
T7+T8+T9: UA + international partners
TBIT+Midfield: Non-aligned international airlines

We'll see, I guess. I don't know if there's any possibility of WN sharing the new Concourse 0 with the other domestic LCCs, but 11 gates seems like too many for just WN to use in addition to all the gates they currently have in T1. And B6, NK, G4, and SY will need to move somewhere if AA is going to close down the Eagle's Nest and move regional ops into T4/T5...


The initial documents and diagrams suggest that concourse 0 would have the ability to accept international arrivals.
The question would be can CBP provide the agents to allow flights into C0. LAX has a history of only staffing TBIT at certain times of the day based on not having the budget to staff all the terminals.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:01 pm

A comment about T-9 and Star partners.
Only last month Janet Lamkin the president of California for UA stated they would like a future T-9 to offer better connectivity with Star partners, so surely some will move in. I suspect the JV ones especially are on top of this list.

Regarding the so-called Concourse 0, I fully expect LAWA to either locate some other airlines there or if SWA is given exclusive, LAWA will exercise its existing T-1 lease rights to relocate other airlines into T-1. Per the current agreement, SWA must give up 2 gates at the request of LAWA in T-1 to accommodate other tenants.
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FSDan
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:07 pm

ScottB wrote:
FSDan wrote:
We'll see, I guess. I don't know if there's any possibility of WN sharing the new Concourse 0 with the other domestic LCCs, but 11 gates seems like too many for just WN to use in addition to all the gates they currently have in T1. And B6, NK, G4, and SY will need to move somewhere if AA is going to close down the Eagle's Nest and move regional ops into T4/T5...


Well, the carriers benefiting most from this plan would be AA & UA, so it's not entirely unreasonable to expect them to give up some facilities. Maybe B6 would end up with some gates in T7 or T9. WN has a bit over 130 departures from LAX with 12 or 13 gates, and if they have any plans to expand they're going to want more gates. I don't know that they'd want 11, but I also doubt there'd be room for all of B6/NK/G4/SY.


Right now, B6/NK/F9/G4/SY basically fit into 7 or 8 gates in T5. So I think there would be room for them and additional space for WN in Concourse 0. Either way, I think the plan is that AA gets most (if not all) of the rest of T5 to accommodate their Eagle ops. If the domestic LCCs don't end up in Concourse 0, I think they'd have to be in TBIT (undesirable as that takes up valuable international gate space) or some combination of T1/T5/T6.

Another poster above mentioned that Concourse 0 might have international arrivals capabilities. If that's the case, another possibility is that airlines such as Y4 or 4O could be accommodated in that space along with expanded room for WN.
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Boof02671
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:07 pm

AA is giving up the Eagle’s Nest by 2024 and the hangar and a new hangar will be built.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nt-450127/
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:10 pm

Separate access roads to T9 is a potential game changer. World way is a zoo for a large portion of the day/evening. Hopefully UA/*A can capitalize.
 
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WALmsp
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:12 pm

UPlog wrote:
What happens with AA and them losing their AA Eagle terminal? Where do all those RJ ops go?

Also the Western Airlines complex and hangar used by DL today gets razed to make way for T-9.


DL is building a new maintenance hangar on the west side next to Qantas
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JAAlbert
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:16 pm

Wow, these two new terminals reflect a dramatic departure from the existing, linear terminals. Very interesting, I bet they will be beautiful and a real asset to the lucky airlines who will utilize them!
 
cschleic
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:34 pm

ikramerica wrote:
The funky designs will likely get more linear/angular. Also, they say walkway across sepulveda, but nothing about it being secure. Would have to be secure.


Totally agree. While T-9 would have its own garage and roads, it will involve connecting UA flights so a secure connector goes without saying. If necessary, why couldn't both be put into the same structure?
 
Bradin
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:35 pm

Based on the picture, are they getting rid of 'the reverse' ?
 
winginit
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:37 pm

And here the city was hoping that the LAX dust from Midfield, T2/3, T4/5, APM, Eagle's Nest would have finally settled by 2024. No rest for the weary.
 
xxcr
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:37 pm

These will be the most efficient terminals at LAX, no more terminal congestion. With how weak UA is at LAX, this will help them grow a little. When will these terminals open? 2030?
 
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NeBaNi
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:40 pm

Ezra wrote:
Does Terminal 0 mean that In-n-Out would have to close?

No, the In-N-Out is in the area where the textbox "Taxiways D...." is on the first picture provided by the OP.
 
jbs2886
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:59 pm

Some interesting images in the document: https://cloud1lawa.app.box.com/s/w1d47y ... w9k19fdn93
Last edited by jbs2886 on Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:02 pm

NorthernPyro wrote:
IMO LAX really needs a complete rebuild with less/larger terminals. But I understand that there just isn't the money for it.


I agree. Bulldoze the entire thing and rebuild. But since that isn't going to happen...
LAX is going to remain a very space constrained airport. The terminals are tight. The roadways are packed. I echo the other comments about the traffic around the airport being impacted by this construction.
 
B747forever
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:05 pm

xxcr wrote:
With how weak UA is at LAX, this will help them grow a little. When will these terminals open? 2030?


Market share 2018

AA 18.80%
DL 16.66%
UA 14.75%
WN 11.40%


UA isn't as weak as many on A.net make them to be. If UA is weak, then what is WN that is trailing with more than 3 percentage points?
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SurlyBonds
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:09 pm

tcaeyx wrote:
[
I'd imagine most Star Alliance carriers will move from TBIT to T9. UA definitely does not need that many wide body gates.


What would happen to the amazing Star Alliance lounge in TBIT, in that case? I'm based in the Bay Area, but I have been known to connect on long-haul flights through TBIT to work in that lounge for a few hours!
 
xxcr
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:13 pm

B747forever wrote:
xxcr wrote:
With how weak UA is at LAX, this will help them grow a little. When will these terminals open? 2030?


Market share 2018

AA 18.80%
DL 16.66%
UA 14.75%
WN 11.40%


UA isn't as weak as many on A.net make them to be. If UA is weak, then what is WN that is trailing with more than 3 percentage points?


internationAL wise, they are weak.....they only serve 5 long haul flights. SYD, MEL, LHR, PEK, NRT.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:17 pm

Renderings

Councourse 0

Image
.
Image



Terminal 9

Image
.
Image
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ldvaviation
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:18 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
AA is giving up the Eagle’s Nest by 2024 and the hangar and a new hangar will be built.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nt-450127/


AA is not giving up the Eagle Terminal by 2024. That article is wrong.

See the LAWA Board Meeting at the 1:35 mark for the correct answer --- http://lawa.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.ph ... a_id=34284

Edited to Add: In the Notice of Prep, link above, this is what we learn about the Eagle terminal and its fate:

Operations at the American Eagle Commuter Terminal are planned to be relocated to the Midfield Satellite Concourse (MSC)South Concourse, which is a separate terminal project having independent utility that was previously identified in the MSC Environmental Impact Report (City of Los Angeles, Los Angeles World Airports, Final Environmental Impact Report for Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) Midfield Satellite Concourse [SCH No. 2013021020], June 2014.)

See Footnote 12.

What is the status of the MSC South?
Last edited by ldvaviation on Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
B747forever
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Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:29 pm

xxcr wrote:
B747forever wrote:
xxcr wrote:
With how weak UA is at LAX, this will help them grow a little. When will these terminals open? 2030?


Market share 2018

AA 18.80%
DL 16.66%
UA 14.75%
WN 11.40%


UA isn't as weak as many on A.net make them to be. If UA is weak, then what is WN that is trailing with more than 3 percentage points?


internationAL wise, they are weak.....they only serve 5 long haul flights. SYD, MEL, LHR, PEK, NRT.


UA serve PVG and not PEK. Anyway, you can add AKL, HND, FRA, MUC, ZRH and VIE to those 5. The JV partner flights with NZ, ANA and LH group are metal neutral, so UA does serve those destinations. Quite a respectable long haul operation by UA at LAX.

If you want to compare only true metal flights, then DL as 2nd doesn't have a stronger long haul network with CDG, AMS, SYD, HND and PVG. Note the glaring lack of flights to LHR.
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