User avatar
hawaiian717
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:14 pm

spinotter wrote:
I wish they would name it T0 - after all zero if a perfectly good number. But why is it that some of the abbreviations in this thread are T9, but C0 instead of T0? Does that mean Concourse Zero of Terminal 1?


Because LAWA calls the project Concourse 0. It won’t have it’s own entrance from the curb so by LAX nomenclature it’s really an extension of Terminal 1. Though by this convention, Terminal 8 should be called Concourse 8.

Terminal 9 is a full fledged new terminal. It will have it’s own entrance.

I agree with you about 0 being a perfectly good number but I hardly ever see it. I think ANC had it at one point. At SAN, Southwest has a small gate area at the far eastern end of Terminal 1 with 3 gates numbered 1, 1A, and 2. SAN (unlike
LAX) doesn’t have any other gates with letter suffixes and I think they should have just numbered gate 1A as 0.
 
United1
Posts: 3836
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:31 pm

spinotter wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
I can’t imagine them calling it terminal 0.


I wish they would name it T0 - after all zero if a perfectly good number. But why is it that some of the abbreviations in this thread are T9, but C0 instead of T0? Does that mean Concourse Zero of Terminal 1?


Yes - the documents from LAX show it as Concourse Zero (C0.) It is being designed as an expansion of Terminal One.

Terminal Nine (T9) is a separate building and will have its own check in and security ect so it's really a new terminal vs being an expansion of Terminal 8 (which really isn't much of a terminal :) )
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
LAXLHR
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:07 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:08 pm

ldvaviation wrote:
janders wrote:
Flight Global has story with a bit more detail.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ns-457251/

LAWA spokesperson says both new facilities would be operational prior to 2028 Olympics.


Show me the money. Show me the the time.

Terminal projects take about 5 years from formal Board approval. We don't have an EIR yet. There are also a number of enabling projects that have to be planned, approved, and completed. As we know from the arguments above, one of those is the removal of the Eagle terminal. There is still no firm date for vacating the Eagle terminal. LAWA and AA have been negotiating for what seems an eternity or more.

There's also the high demand for construction services in the LA area. Add more time for that. See the AA project which started construction last year but which may still not be complete by 2028.

As to the money, there are capital spending limits which LAWA reported last December. Even if it decided to exceed those, a precedent was set by the Delta lease. It is pay to play. Which means that the main tenant of either terminal is going to have to finance the project upfront and it looks from these plans that Delta got quite a bargain. As I said above, the terminal element of the T9 project alone looks like $1.5B-Plus project with the enabling projects. Delta paid for the major enabling projects at T2/T3 (the airline relocation and modification of TBIT gates). Will United pay to relocate American? When do those negotiations begin? The parking lot probably pays for itself, but who pays for the roadways. The other airlines? How long will those negotiations take?

As for T0, it may be a case of going to the well once too often. Southwest just completed a $600 million renovation of T1. Soon after they started construction of T1.5. That's another $700 million. So, if Southwest wants a T0, they now have to pony up another billion over what they have already spent over the last 5 years. When do those negotiations begin?

... Sadly, LAWA seems to be repeating the mistakes of the LAWA Board in the last run-up to the Olympics. Last time they did something this fast and with little forethought we got the original Bradley. The saving grace of the original Bradley was that it offered the possibility in the future of a more efficient layout (parallel concourses). This plan basically spends billions to foreclose any possibility and what is worse it shows again that LAWA never finishes what it starts. There is no provision in this plan for redoing the facades of T7/8 to match the renovated facades of T1 and T1.5, 2/3, Bradley, T4/T5 and even T6. In 2028, just in time for the Olympics, they will look like just like they do today, a derelict strip mall.


LAWA are corrupt. West side Mafioso at its finest! (I'm not here to argue this) just look at LAX. I still love the airport, but it is what it is due to the never ending corruption.

As for the mayor of El Segundo. Someone obvs needs to up his under the table payment.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR PG MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
JHwk
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:11 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:38 am

golfingboy wrote:
As someone who used to call LAX my home airport - I am very disappointed with this plan. I had high hopes with the direction LAX was going with TBIT and MSC hopeful that they will continue the trend of building out more parallel terminals out to the west (a la ATL) and once they have enough built out they would start rebuilding the core terminals from the ground up. Yes this would be expensive and take several decades to achieve, but this was really the best long term solution IMHO.

Methinks this move has more to do with preparing for the 2028 Olympics than building out LAX for the long term.


Adding capacity west of TBIT does nothing to address capacity of the horseshoe. T9 might help there, although it really looks like the two projects will make traffic worse on the airport approaches. Maybe the saving grace of T9 is the dedicated APM station. There is now way to do an ATL styled “toaster”, the best the airport could hope for is a PHX racetrack, tearing down the parking garages.

My biggest worry would be the new bridges required. A lot of long-term pain at the airport, without ever solving the traffic flow problems.
 
User avatar
jsnww81
Posts: 2509
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:45 am

malaysia wrote:
I fly out of LAX a bit on Southwest, They renovated T1 and even the outside, but I hear that UA did renovate its terminal inside and a new club, but they never bothered with the exterior? looks likw the same old terminal and does not blend well with the club building. T6 looks same age too. What are those extended bars for on the sides of the old concourses? were they originally lights? why do they keep them if they are never on? looks like an eyesore. I would cut them out to make the old terminals at least look a little smoother?


The United T7 remodel did not include the exterior of the buildings, no. The inside is shiny and new - a little sparse and clinical for my taste, though I suppose that's the aesthetic of choice in airport design these days - but the outside of the terminal is still trapped in 1983 (or in the case of the satellite gates, still trapped in 1961) albeit with a big new high-tech United Club heaved up on top of the roof at one end. Doesn't look terribly cohesive. At least the T2 rebuild (1986-1988), T4 remodel (1999-2001) and the T5 rebuild (1987-88) fixed up the exteriors of those terminals as well.

Southwest's recent T1 renovation was mostly focused on the interior, although the landside frontage on the second level got some weird perforated-steel banding pasted onto the original concrete facade. You can still see the concrete above it, though, and on the sides of the headhouse, so it looks incomplete. The concourse got some new additions at the end that look modern, but the close-in gates are still 1984 architecture on the outside - so the terminal is, overall, very much an architectural frankenstein.

Delta's upcoming T2/T3 rebuild and American's T4/T5 expansion look like they will have matching third-level facades facing World Way. I've also seen some renderings that show a similar facade applied to TBIT, so at least half the airport will have a unified look in time for the 2028 Games.

Speaking of Delta's T2/T3 rebuild, about eight months ago they ripped a few hundred feet of entrance portico off the second level of T3 and don't appear to have done a single thing since. What's the status of that project? They're very good at putting up billboards and signs all over the airport telling us they're "working hard every day" but I'm in and out of LAX every week, and it sure doesn't look like much work being done to me.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:17 am

golfingboy wrote:
As someone who used to call LAX my home airport - I am very disappointed with this plan. I had high hopes with the direction LAX was going with TBIT and MSC hopeful that they will continue the trend of building out more parallel terminals out to the west (a la ATL) and once they have enough built out they would start rebuilding the core terminals from the ground up. Yes this would be expensive and take several decades to achieve, but this was really the best long term solution IMHO.

Methinks this move has more to do with preparing for the 2028 Olympics than building out LAX for the long term.


Unfortunately, building a “new” LAX airport isn’t practical. Forget the logistics (of building a new airport atop the old one) or cost (tens of billions of dollars; the most expensive public works project in US history) — within seconds of announcement of such project, everyone from local municipalities to the local Green Deal Chapter would file suit.

ONT is a practical reliever/second airport for the region should LAX near capacity.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:13 pm

Cranky Flier has a good story on the terminal projects

https://crankyflier.com/2019/04/16/a-lo ... ncourse-0/
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
SFOHORIZON
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:09 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:44 am

The Cranky Flier article is a good overview, but he didn't provide any gate totals for AA, DL, Southwest, UA, etc... Anyone know those, especially for DL and AA? And in addition to 4+5, is AA going to get any TBIT gates?
 
JHwk
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:11 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:09 am

That is going to be a painful construction exercise with the roads. Talk about a decade of pain between the APM and the roadway reconfigurations.
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:30 pm

SFOHORIZON wrote:
The Cranky Flier article is a good overview, but he didn't provide any gate totals for AA, DL, Southwest, UA, etc... Anyone know those, especially for DL and AA? And in addition to 4+5, is AA going to get any TBIT gates?


Apart than gates, there is another scarce resource that is going to be tricky: FIS capabilities. AA will have 4+5 and part ot TBIT south along with OW partners. The same way, up north. DL will have 2+3 plus part of TBIT North along with skyteam partners. It's quite safe to assume that AA and DL will use TBIT for International arrivals along with their international partners. So it seems with this setup, and all buildings linked airside, there is no need to have international processing facilities and staff at Terminals 2 3 4 and 5.

Terminal 9 will be handling widebodies so it will probably receive international arrivals of United + Star Alliance (minus AC already precleared), so it seems, it is the one in the "T789 complex" needing FIS capabilities.

Then there is T1+Concourse0 and T6 whose tennants might need international capabilities. T6 right can now only process international incoming flights until 19:00. Alaska intl incoming flights have to use TBIT beyond 19:00. All Southwest international arriving passengers have to use TBIT.
That's a serious inconvenience for connecting passengers and airlines due to the risk of missed connections due to distance and "involuntary" change of terminal and rises the chances of luggage being mishandled.

Given they have a significant number of Intl flights, any chance Southwest and/or Alaska could find home at a terminal with full FIS capabilities?
 
The777Man
Posts: 6076
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:37 pm

Aisak wrote:
SFOHORIZON wrote:
The Cranky Flier article is a good overview, but he didn't provide any gate totals for AA, DL, Southwest, UA, etc... Anyone know those, especially for DL and AA? And in addition to 4+5, is AA going to get any TBIT gates?


Apart than gates, there is another scarce resource that is going to be tricky: FIS capabilities. AA will have 4+5 and part ot TBIT south along with OW partners. The same way, up north. DL will have 2+3 plus part of TBIT North along with skyteam partners. It's quite safe to assume that AA and DL will use TBIT for International arrivals along with their international partners. So it seems with this setup, and all buildings linked airside, there is no need to have international processing facilities and staff at Terminals 2 3 4 and 5.

Terminal 9 will be handling widebodies so it will probably receive international arrivals of United + Star Alliance (minus AC already precleared), so it seems, it is the one in the "T789 complex" needing FIS capabilities.

Then there is T1+Concourse0 and T6 whose tennants might need international capabilities. T6 right can now only process international incoming flights until 19:00. Alaska intl incoming flights have to use TBIT beyond 19:00. All Southwest international arriving passengers have to use TBIT.
That's a serious inconvenience for connecting passengers and airlines due to the risk of missed connections due to distance and "involuntary" change of terminal and rises the chances of luggage being mishandled.

Given they have a significant number of Intl flights, any chance Southwest and/or Alaska could find home at a terminal with full FIS capabilities?


Increase staffing at T6 and perhaps include a FIS in the new Concourse 0 ? Staffing is all up to CBP so not an easy for LAWA or airlines to solve.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
blockski
Posts: 503
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:38 pm

Aisak wrote:
SFOHORIZON wrote:
The Cranky Flier article is a good overview, but he didn't provide any gate totals for AA, DL, Southwest, UA, etc... Anyone know those, especially for DL and AA? And in addition to 4+5, is AA going to get any TBIT gates?


Apart than gates, there is another scarce resource that is going to be tricky: FIS capabilities. AA will have 4+5 and part ot TBIT south along with OW partners. The same way, up north. DL will have 2+3 plus part of TBIT North along with skyteam partners. It's quite safe to assume that AA and DL will use TBIT for International arrivals along with their international partners. So it seems with this setup, and all buildings linked airside, there is no need to have international processing facilities and staff at Terminals 2 3 4 and 5.

Terminal 9 will be handling widebodies so it will probably receive international arrivals of United + Star Alliance (minus AC already precleared), so it seems, it is the one in the "T789 complex" needing FIS capabilities.

Then there is T1+Concourse0 and T6 whose tennants might need international capabilities. T6 right can now only process international incoming flights until 19:00. Alaska intl incoming flights have to use TBIT beyond 19:00. All Southwest international arriving passengers have to use TBIT.
That's a serious inconvenience for connecting passengers and airlines due to the risk of missed connections due to distance and "involuntary" change of terminal and rises the chances of luggage being mishandled.

Given they have a significant number of Intl flights, any chance Southwest and/or Alaska could find home at a terminal with full FIS capabilities?


The planning documents explicitly say that both T9 and C0 would have FIS facilities.

The more interesting question (to me) is how T9 would change things with the T7 FIS. My understanding is that the T6 arrivals are actually using the T7 FIS, connected via tunnel.

For United, it would seem like they could easily shift their international and widebody operations to the new T9, freeing up some space for more domestic operations at T7; but I'm not sure where that would leave any future T6 users with international operations.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:48 pm

Comments by Kirby at todays earning call.

"Today, we're really full at Los Angeles. We look forward to the opportunity to get more gates and grow in Los Angeles."
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:38 pm

United sure messed up by vacating its 4 former CO gates in T-6 directly to AA.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1083
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:03 pm

UPlog wrote:
United sure messed up by vacating its 4 former CO gates in T-6 directly to AA.


It’s easier for Kirby to pontificate about what could have been at LAX from a smaller more profitable LAX than at an overserved, unprofitable LAX.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5228
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:34 am

Hawaiian unhappy about the direction of developments at LAX: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ax-458595/

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
grbauc
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:07 am

continental004 wrote:
I'm cringing looking at these pics at the thought of all the traffic jams caused by the construction and the two new terminals. As if it already wasn't bad enough at LAX.



Ok so what should they do? It's just par for the course.
 
User avatar
fraspotter
Posts: 2223
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:42 am

ikramerica wrote:
ScottB wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Oh great - as if traffic at LAX could get any worse! Are they really going to call it concourse 0? That just sounds funny.


It doesn't sound like the "Concourse 0" name would be likely to appear on any signage; it'd most likely just be treated as an expanded Terminal 1. The gate renumbering at T1 which occurred with the recent remodel/rebuild ended up with the gates now being numbered from 9 to 18, and the current Gate 9 would be eliminated to build a connector to the new Concourse 0. 11A might also be gone or moved based on the diagrams in the OP.

LAXintl wrote:
Concourse 0 would be an 11-gate concourse facility east of Terminal 1


I'm a little surprised they didn't choose to go with a double-loaded design for the concourse, although the available space might have been tight if they wanted two taxilanes in the alley between T1 and C0.

Concourse ZERO makes sense based on the LAX numbering scheme. 9 will be sacrificed to C0, so you would have 11 gates number 01-09 with 2 A/B gates.

T9 would have 90-99 with 2 A/B gates (from that drawing I'd say 93A/B and 94A/B).


All this "concourse/terminal 0" makes zero sense. Why not just call the new addition T1A and the existing portion T1B as in concourse A and concourse B of Terminal 1?
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1116
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:21 am

How many 748 gates is Terminal 9 going to have?
 
carljanderson
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:08 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
How many 748 gates is Terminal 9 going to have?


Unknown yet. It is planned to be 12 gates, primarily widebody. However, the breakdown between ADG IV, V, and VI has yet to be finalized. The study says that it will support ADG VI operations, so there will be some.

In the footnotes, it also says it may be configured to support up to 18 NB gates or configured for both NB and WB usage.

(large PDF here -> https://cloud1lawa.box.com/s/w1d47y9kdn ... w9k19fdn93)
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:04 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Hawaiian unhappy about the direction of developments at LAX: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ax-458595/

V/F


Hawaiian can and should force LAWA to subsidize its rent at the MSC or find gates elsewhere. LAWA needs the gates at T5 to replace the Eagle terminal.

If Hawaiian balks, I suspect the other non-signatory airlines in T5 will refuse to move too. Hawaiian's position seems reasonable: No domestic baggage claim at TBIT, a long bus ride on arrival for their passengers, longer connection times (to JetBlue) and less convenience, and the previous promise from LAWA that Hawaiian would not have to move again until T0 or T9 were built.
 
Prost
Posts: 2406
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:19 pm

I would need to see what is in Hawaiian’s contract with LAWA before I know what each party ‘needs’ to do.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:30 pm

Prost wrote:
I would need to see what is in Hawaiian’s contract with LAWA before I know what each party ‘needs’ to do.


It is a non-signatory airline with no preferential gate rights. Technically, LAWA can force Hawaiian to move.

But Hawaiian could also sue LAWA and hold up the progress on any projects (e.g., T9).

Non-signatory airlines sued LAWA in the past, over the new rental rate structure. LAWA settled that suit, but it took some time.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12322
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:18 pm

compensateme wrote:
ONT is a practical reliever/second airport for the region should LAX near capacity.

....said NO ONE from Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Glendale, Encino, Calabasas, Malibu, Santa Monica, Thousand Oaks-- and really anywhere outside of the San Gabriel valley.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1116
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:25 pm

ldvaviation wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Hawaiian unhappy about the direction of developments at LAX: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ax-458595/

V/F


Hawaiian can and should force LAWA to subsidize its rent at the MSC or find gates elsewhere. LAWA needs the gates at T5 to replace the Eagle terminal.

If Hawaiian balks, I suspect the other non-signatory airlines in T5 will refuse to move too. Hawaiian's position seems reasonable: No domestic baggage claim at TBIT, a long bus ride on arrival for their passengers, longer connection times (to JetBlue) and less convenience, and the previous promise from LAWA that Hawaiian would not have to move again until T0 or T9 were built.

I thought the MSC is going to have an underground walkway connecting it to the TBIT. Why can't a domestic flight use the international baggage claim?
 
many321
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:15 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:30 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
compensateme wrote:
ONT is a practical reliever/second airport for the region should LAX near capacity.

....said NO ONE from Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Glendale, Encino, Calabasas, Malibu, Santa Monica, Thousand Oaks-- and really anywhere outside of the San Gabriel valley.


Dude calm down.
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:48 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Why can't a domestic flight use the international baggage claim?


Technically, I’m sure there is no trouble. But I would like to see the passengers’ faces coming from Hawaii and having to fill in a Customs form while a dog sniffs around their luggage.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1083
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:15 pm

many321 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
compensateme wrote:
ONT is a practical reliever/second airport for the region should LAX near capacity.

....said NO ONE from Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Glendale, Encino, Calabasas, Malibu, Santa Monica, Thousand Oaks-- and really anywhere outside of the San Gabriel valley.


Dude calm down.


I’m not sure how you are assessing calmness, but he is 100% right. With the traffic and geography of the LA Basin, ONT just isn’t a realistic alternative to LAX. I go down from SFO to that area often and the only time I even considered ONT is for business trips in the immediate vicinity of ONT or as cheap alternate for Palm Springs.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:07 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
many321 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
....said NO ONE from Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Glendale, Encino, Calabasas, Malibu, Santa Monica, Thousand Oaks-- and really anywhere outside of the San Gabriel valley.


Dude calm down.


I’m not sure how you are assessing calmness, but he is 100% right. With the traffic and geography of the LA Basin, ONT just isn’t a realistic alternative to LAX. I go down from SFO to that area often and the only time I even considered ONT is for business trips in the immediate vicinity of ONT or as cheap alternate for Palm Springs.


The area most impacted by LAX’s noise pollution is the poorest in the Greater Los Angeles Area. Part of the compromise for the low scale expansion was the anticipation of widespread opposition to a major expansion/redevelopment project. Just imagine the reaction a decade from now, when the area surrounding LAX are regentrified, and portions of South (Central) Los Angeles are beginning to join it.

Reality is, any major expansion/total redevelopment project isn’t feasible from a cost perspective, nor would it be accepted by the community. Look at the restrictions in place at BUR, LGB and SNA.

Ultimately, ONT will be the region’s reliever. As LAX reaches capacity, presumably more airlines will more service from ONT. Additional and lower cost service will drive more people from eastern LA County, Orange County and the Inland Empire to use ONT, which will provide relief to LAX (which will still be there).

It isn’t rocket science, and those of us who grew up here realize traffic is part of life, as to those who grew up making the 90-mile trek from Biloxi to New Orleans - in their words - in 60 minutes or less.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
many321
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:15 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:33 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
many321 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
....said NO ONE from Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Glendale, Encino, Calabasas, Malibu, Santa Monica, Thousand Oaks-- and really anywhere outside of the San Gabriel valley.


Dude calm down.


I’m not sure how you are assessing calmness,


I was commenting that LAX77LR comes off a bit condescending when responding to a question. He can be more tactful on how he responds. :)
 
sphealey
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 12:39 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:53 pm

Good news for shuttle companies and their drivers, Uber, taxis, etc: this will be a great opportunity for LAWA and the City to tear up more sidewalks, block more crossings, and generally make pedestrian use of Century Blvd even more difficult than they did in the last round of "improvements".
 
grbauc
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:24 am

LAX772LR wrote:
compensateme wrote:
ONT is a practical reliever/second airport for the region should LAX near capacity.

....said NO ONE from Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Glendale, Encino, Calabasas, Malibu, Santa Monica, Thousand Oaks-- and really anywhere outside of the San Gabriel valley.



Your so right on this its crazy how people just keep wanting ONT to be more then it is.

If ONT could get a huge amount of Flights it might force the issue and people would do it. Unless there is somekind of major Public Transportation Train like LONDON has its not going to happen ONT.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:00 am

grbauc wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
compensateme wrote:
ONT is a practical reliever/second airport for the region should LAX near capacity.

....said NO ONE from Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Glendale, Encino, Calabasas, Malibu, Santa Monica, Thousand Oaks-- and really anywhere outside of the San Gabriel valley.



Your so right on this its crazy how people just keep wanting ONT to be more then it is.

If ONT could get a huge amount of Flights it might force the issue and people would do it. Unless there is somekind of major Public Transportation Train like LONDON has its not going to happen ONT.


I never made that assertion, he manufactured them. In response to comments that LAX is approaching capacity and would one day need a reliever airport, I pointed out that it already existed (ONT).

Consider that if LAX reached capacity, LGB would be the natural reliever, but the local community is viciously opposed to significant increases in activity. You can’t argue that you don’t want an airport in your backyard but the one across the street is too far away.

Not that it matters anyway because as I mentioned earlier, LAX will likely have sufficient capacity for decades to come.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:41 am

ldvaviation wrote:
Hawaiian's position seems reasonable: No domestic baggage claim at TBIT,

There is a domestic baggage claim at TBIT. EY uses that since passengers are pre-cleared at AUH.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:09 am

compensateme wrote:
grbauc wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
....said NO ONE from Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Glendale, Encino, Calabasas, Malibu, Santa Monica, Thousand Oaks-- and really anywhere outside of the San Gabriel valley.



Your so right on this its crazy how people just keep wanting ONT to be more then it is.

If ONT could get a huge amount of Flights it might force the issue and people would do it. Unless there is somekind of major Public Transportation Train like LONDON has its not going to happen ONT.


I never made that assertion, he manufactured them. In response to comments that LAX is approaching capacity and would one day need a reliever airport, I pointed out that it already existed (ONT).

Consider that if LAX reached capacity, LGB would be the natural reliever, but the local community is viciously opposed to significant increases in activity. You can’t argue that you don’t want an airport in your backyard but the one across the street is too far away.

Not that it matters anyway because as I mentioned earlier, LAX will likely have sufficient capacity for decades to come.



Sorry I didn't mean so much you. I read a few on the board that keep saying over and over that ONT is the answer and is being held back due to LAX management of ONT back in the day.

At this point I think ONT becoming a LGW style answer is far off. Pretty much blame the Tire company and auto industry (General Motors, Firestone, Standard Oil-Chevron) that helped to ruin Public Transport in Southern California.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:41 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
ldvaviation wrote:
Hawaiian's position seems reasonable: No domestic baggage claim at TBIT,

There is a domestic baggage claim at TBIT. EY uses that since passengers are pre-cleared at AUH.


The Hawaiian argument is that there is no domestic baggage claim in TBIT or MSC for Hawaiian's use.

Instead, check-in and baggage claim would happen at T1.5 (the building under construction next to T1).
 
BGS91762
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:43 pm

I am so tired of the argument is not an adequate reliever airport for LAX. People forget of the millions of people in greater LA who live closer to ONT and have to continually go to LAX. ONT is not meant to serve western LA county period. It serves the other side of LA that those on the western side forget exists.
 
A350OZ
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:20 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:40 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
ldvaviation wrote:
Hawaiian's position seems reasonable: No domestic baggage claim at TBIT,

There is a domestic baggage claim at TBIT. EY uses that since passengers are pre-cleared at AUH.


Same for QF if flying on their JFK-LAX leg. It’s a single belt in the landslide northern end of the arrivals hall.
 
Bradin
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:42 pm

ldvaviation wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
ldvaviation wrote:
Hawaiian's position seems reasonable: No domestic baggage claim at TBIT,

There is a domestic baggage claim at TBIT. EY uses that since passengers are pre-cleared at AUH.


The Hawaiian argument is that there is no domestic baggage claim in TBIT or MSC for Hawaiian's use.

Instead, check-in and baggage claim would happen at T1.5 (the building under construction next to T1).



I'm sorry, but that's such a confusing, and possibly stressful experience. Walking at least 0.4 miles (depending on how one measures) past two and a half terminals just to reach TBIT.
 
User avatar
hawaiian717
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:16 pm

I agree that if what is being proposed is for HA to have check-in and baggage claim in T1.5 while parking at MSC, that would be rather undesirable.

I have a feeling HA knows they're stuck with what LAX decides to do, but hopes to get some sort of concession from LAWA. Someone mentioned that they'll be forced to pay more to park at MSC; something like an agreement to this arrangement but at their current cost to park at T5.
 
DLFA
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:28 pm

Anyone knows how LAWA distribute gates to the carriers? I wonder if DL will one day command the same market share as AA in LAX.
 
Bradin
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:49 pm

I forgot to add - I'm not sure Hawaiian would appreciate having passengers sharing a lobby with Southwest especially with its recent service into the Hawaiian Islands.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:56 pm

BGS91762 wrote:
I am so tired of the argument is not an adequate reliever airport for LAX. People forget of the millions of people in greater LA who live closer to ONT and have to continually go to LAX. ONT is not meant to serve western LA county period. It serves the other side of LA that those on the western side forget exists.



I’m tired of people thinking ONT is the saving grace for LA area airports. In the current state It’s not. The place isn’t bustling even during peak travel times. It serves the IE (low income market), the high desert (another low income market) and a small portion of Northern OC and that’s about it. Have any of you ever tried driving the 10 or 60 or 91 or 210 to/from Ontario from LA? It’s an f’ing nightmare. The only thing that can help is direct rail service to the airport from various areas. I tend to travel from very south OC to BUR because I can catch the train (1 hour 29 min) at the pier station and take it directly to the BUR terminal. And flights are a fraction of what they are at SNA. If ONT can do similar it would for sure be a plus.
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
grbauc
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:45 am

BGS91762 wrote:
I am so tired of the argument is not an adequate reliever airport for LAX. People forget of the millions of people in greater LA who live closer to ONT and have to continually go to LAX. ONT is not meant to serve western LA county period. It serves the other side of LA that those on the western side forget exists.


Blame SWA for moving the majority of there flights/hub to Los Angeles/LAX blame the people around Ontario in the communities that don’t support flights out of Ontario. Huge draw back by SWA.
Blame capitalism a muck because business more so today, want to make more money no matter what at whatever cost.
Blame the State or the feds for not approving/allocating funds freeway improvements or for not getting us a really good rail system from Los Angeles to Ontario so that it can be used as a reliever
Maybe it’s just the small margins that Airlines make on these flights that cause these companies to move. Maybe it’s not a capitalism thing or a community fault but just the economics.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:51 am

A350OZ wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
ldvaviation wrote:
Hawaiian's position seems reasonable: No domestic baggage claim at TBIT,

There is a domestic baggage claim at TBIT. EY uses that since passengers are pre-cleared at AUH.


Same for QF if flying on their JFK-LAX leg. It’s a single belt in the landslide northern end of the arrivals hall.

Is QF allowed to sell tickets for JFK-LAX? I do not think so.
So why would there be a need for a domestic baggage claim for QF? Wouldn't all bags from JFK-LAX be transfered directly to BNE or SYD flights?
 
A350OZ
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:20 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:45 am

DTWLAX wrote:
A350OZ wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
There is a domestic baggage claim at TBIT. EY uses that since passengers are pre-cleared at AUH.


Same for QF if flying on their JFK-LAX leg. It’s a single belt in the landslide northern end of the arrivals hall.

Is QF allowed to sell tickets for JFK-LAX? I do not think so.
So why would there be a need for a domestic baggage claim for QF? Wouldn't all bags from JFK-LAX be transfered directly to BNE or SYD flights?


Only as part of an international itinerary. I flew JFK-LAX-SYD last November and did a 4-day stopover in LA, hence having to retrieve luggage. (Of the 200-or-so on board from JFK, a total of 5 pax plus the crew ended up being escorted from departures to the carousel, everyone else was connecting to SYD/MEL/BNE.)
 
BGS91762
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:47 am

Funny I don’t consider the San Gabriel Valley of which ONT is the most convenient airport to be a low income market. Neither is many parts of the IE.
 
User avatar
AAlaxfan
Posts: 644
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:08 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:48 am

BGS91762 wrote:
Funny I don’t consider the San Gabriel Valley of which ONT is the most convenient airport to be a low income market. Neither is many parts of the IE.

It's how the westsiders perceive the SGV, IE and N. OC. Only they have enough money top spend on travel. Everywhere else is poverty level income.
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
snasteve
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:58 am

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:01 am

nine4nine wrote:
BGS91762 wrote:
I am so tired of the argument is not an adequate reliever airport for LAX. People forget of the millions of people in greater LA who live closer to ONT and have to continually go to LAX. ONT is not meant to serve western LA county period. It serves the other side of LA that those on the western side forget exists.



I’m tired of people thinking ONT is the saving grace for LA area airports. In the current state It’s not. The place isn’t bustling even during peak travel times. It serves the IE (low income market), the high desert (another low income market) and a small portion of Northern OC and that’s about it. Have any of you ever tried driving the 10 or 60 or 91 or 210 to/from Ontario from LA? It’s an f’ing nightmare. The only thing that can help is direct rail service to the airport from various areas. I tend to travel from very south OC to BUR because I can catch the train (1 hour 29 min) at the pier station and take it directly to the BUR terminal. And flights are a fraction of what they are at SNA. If ONT can do similar it would for sure be a plus.


As someone who lives in Orange County, it would not be accurate to describe the inland empire as such these days. Yes the incomes are probably less, but they aren’t exactly low income you can’t be poor and live in California much anymore. If anything, the flight path into Los Angeles is over decidedly lower income areas. I personally would rather live in the IE or Palm Springs than there.

The way housing prices are, lower income is leaving the state entirely.
 
OlafW
Posts: 302
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: LAX moves forward with plans for Terminal 0 and 9

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:50 am

fraspotter wrote:

All this "concourse/terminal 0" makes zero sense.


I could imagine it would unofficially be called Termi-nil after some time...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos