RobertS975
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Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:41 pm

This will almost certainly lead to significant repercussions and ATC delays into and out of JFK for the next 6 months.

https://www.panynj.gov/press-room/press ... ne_id=3100

PORT AUTHORITY BEGINS $355 MILLION RECONSTRUCTION OF RUNWAY AT JOHN F. KENNEDY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

Date: Apr 03, 2019
Press Release Number: 49-2019

Project will include expanding the 13L-31R runway and associated taxiways, to improve safety and increase peak period capacity

Use of concrete in construction will extend runway’s useful life to 40 years, rather than 8-12 years with asphalt

Starting this week and continuing through November 2019, one of four runways normally in use at John F. Kennedy International Airport is closing for reconstruction to ensure the long-term safety and viability of the runway, which is approaching the end of its useful life.

The airport awarded the contract for the runway construction in November 2018 and the work commenced Monday. Runway 13L-31R will be closed for repaving that will widen the runway by 33 percent. The project will also allow the installation of new lights, signs, cables and navigational aids. Once completed, it will meet new safety standards and will incorporate the latest landing technology.

The rehabilitation will also provide aircraft a solid concrete runway that is more resilient than asphalt and will increase the useful life of the runway by four times. In addition, the creation of new high-speed taxiways will enable aircraft to exit the runway more quickly allow the runway handle more aircraft per hour at peak periods.

The reconstruction is projected to create 3,340 total job years, $251.8 million in payroll wages and $608.6 million in economic activity. The decision to use concrete as opposed to asphalt for the runway project will reduce the number of construction days and extend its useful life to 40 years, instead of the typical asphalt lifespan of eight to 12 years.

“The Port Authority recognizes the need for infrastructure upgrades to improve the customer’s flight experience and to better maintain and operate our facilities and assets,” said Port Authority Chairman Kevin O’Toole. “This project is critical to achieve those goals, and we are working to ensure minimal impact while the reconstruction is under way.”

“With this project, the Port Authority is moving to rebuild JFK’s last outdated runway. This reconstruction effort will transform Runway 13L-31R from a 150-foot-wide asphalt runway to a 200-foot-wide concrete runway that will extend its life expectancy by a factor of four and improve the safety of flight operations," said Port Authority Executive Director Rick Cotton. “The project also will advance and upgrade the antiquated electrical lighting system originally installed in 1993 to a more sophisticated and energy-efficient system.

“With collaboration from our airline partners and the Federal Aviation Administration, the next eight months of continuous work on Runway 13L-31R will pay huge dividends in terms of operational safety and efficiency over the coming decades at JFK, as it represents the final phase of upgrading the four operational runways at the airport,” Cotton said.

In a joint statement, the JFK terminal operators expressed support for the project. “The Port Authority has continued to work extensively with the airport community in preparation for the runway reconstruction, which will directly impact all terminals and airlines. All JFK terminal operators understand the importance of this critical runway work.”

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has developed a strategic plan to manage aircraft traffic while Runway 13L is closed. The FAA is studying runway configuration, aircraft traffic flow rates and aircraft traffic management strategies to maximize efficiency and reduce delays at JFK.

During the next eight months, the Port Authority will have the Airport Operations Center (AOC) open around the clock as the focal point for communications between terminal operators, airlines, air traffic control, Customs & Border Protection and the Transportation Security Administration (TSA).

Performance metrics will be monitored continuously, including arrival, departure and taxi times. Adjustments will be made to reduce delay and protect the customer experience.

Runway 13L-31R is about 10,000 feet long and handles approximately one-third of arrivals at JFK, which has more than 61 million customers annually and more than 455,000 flights a year.
 
DFW17L
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:19 pm

Hope the project goes smoothly. DFW17C was supposed to take about 6 months, but ended up taking 50% longer, due to weather and unforeseen issues. And they weren't replacing asphalt with concrete. Sounds like the JFK13L is going to take it down to earth.
 
TW870
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:41 am

I can't imagine nights with low visibility and strong winds from the east. Such a scenario is already a nightmare because they do the ILS 13L, which creates a massive conflict with LGA. But now it is even worse as they would have to do the ILS 13R and then all departures also off of 13R. It is a rare situation but it happens, and this summer it will be even worse than usual.
 
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Moose135
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:37 am

They did the same thing with the other parallel 13R/31L a few years ago. It did cause some disruptions, but they got through it.
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N757ST
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:49 am

TW870 wrote:
I can't imagine nights with low visibility and strong winds from the east. Such a scenario is already a nightmare because they do the ILS 13L, which creates a massive conflict with LGA. But now it is even worse as they would have to do the ILS 13R and then all departures also off of 13R. It is a rare situation but it happens, and this summer it will be even worse than usual.



There is no ILS 13R. If the wind blows out of the southeast more then 35 knots and visibility is low, landings will be shuttered until conditions improve,

The more often scenario, and one that already popped its head this week is a strong cold front coming through. For a couple hours jfk ran 4+ hour edcts Wednesday and caused multiple aircraft to hold and divert due to single runway ops on 31L. I’ll give jfk credit though, they ran the 22s all the way up to most aircraft cross wind limits. I landed 22L Wednesday with a 35 knot almost direct crosswind.
 
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Moose135
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:00 am

N757ST wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I’ll give jfk credit though, they ran the 22s all the way up to most aircraft cross wind limits. I landed 22L Wednesday with a 35 knot almost direct crosswind.

There have been times in the winter when the winds were 310 at 30+ and they were coming down the 22s - driving down Rockaway Blvd and looking up the final approach path, you could read the airline name off the side of the fuselage on final.
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N757ST
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:10 am

Moose135 wrote:
N757ST wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I’ll give jfk credit though, they ran the 22s all the way up to most aircraft cross wind limits. I landed 22L Wednesday with a 35 knot almost direct crosswind.

There have been times in the winter when the winds were 310 at 30+ and they were coming down the 22s - driving down Rockaway Blvd and looking up the final approach path, you could read the airline name off the side of the fuselage on final.



That’s fairly unusual though. General rule of thumb is more then 25 knots gust and they’ll stick on the 31s. In the morning and evening ~20 knots or less and they’ll switch to the 22s or 4s so they can launch RBV departures off 31L/KE. In the late morning and early afternoon they’ll usually prefer 31L/R.

Obviously this is before 31R went offline.
 
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Moose135
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:15 am

N757ST wrote:
That’s fairly unusual though. General rule of thumb is more then 25 knots gust and they’ll stick on the 31s. In the morning and evening ~20 knots or less and they’ll switch to the 22s or 4s so they can launch RBV departures off 31L/KE. In the late morning and early afternoon they’ll usually prefer 31L/R.

It was mid-afternoon on a weekend (Saturday, maybe) and they did switch to the 31s about 20 minutes later.
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TW870
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:40 am

N757ST wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I can't imagine nights with low visibility and strong winds from the east. Such a scenario is already a nightmare because they do the ILS 13L, which creates a massive conflict with LGA. But now it is even worse as they would have to do the ILS 13R and then all departures also off of 13R. It is a rare situation but it happens, and this summer it will be even worse than usual.



There is no ILS 13R. If the wind blows out of the southeast more then 35 knots and visibility is low, landings will be shuttered until conditions improve,

The more often scenario, and one that already popped its head this week is a strong cold front coming through. For a couple hours jfk ran 4+ hour edcts Wednesday and caused multiple aircraft to hold and divert due to single runway ops on 31L. I’ll give jfk credit though, they ran the 22s all the way up to most aircraft cross wind limits. I landed 22L Wednesday with a 35 knot almost direct crosswind.


Thanks for the informative reply. Is it typical that on parallels such as 13L/R that there is an ILS for only one runway? I had not thought about it until this sort of scenario where all arrivals could be shuttered due to strong winds and a closed runway.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:17 am

Is there much of an advantage to having a 200 foot wide runway than a 150 foot? Lots of major airports in the US have 150 foot wide runways.
 
tphuang
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:43 pm

so are we expecting slots to go away at JFK after this?
 
zuckie13
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:51 pm

tphuang wrote:
so are we expecting slots to go away at JFK after this?


Nope, no overall change in the capacity of the airport when this is done, just a rebuilt and improved existing runway.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:56 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
zuckie13 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
so are we expecting slots to go away at JFK after this?


Nope, no overall change in the capacity of the airport when this is done, just a rebuilt and improved existing runway.
They do mention this: In addition, the creation of new high-speed taxiways will enable aircraft to exit the runway more quickly allow the runway handle more aircraft per hour at peak periods.
But I can't see that making a big difference. Marginal at best.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
leader1
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:27 pm

Just curious, but are they planning on relocating the 13L ILS Glidescope to the other side of the runway? I recall seeing it in some of the initial plans of this project, but I don't know if this got through to the final plans. For those who don't know, the radar's current location is what prevents A380s from landing on 31R.

tphuang wrote:
so are we expecting slots to go away at JFK after this?


I heard about this, too.
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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:12 pm

In the words of Marvin the Martian, "oh, delays, delays, delays..."

Crossing my fingers that all goes well, but if Mother Nature decides to get in the way, good luck!

I'm sorry if this question was answered above, but I didn't see: will all eight of the runways have ILS? If so, how much will that improve operations in "low clouds" situations?
 
leader1
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:29 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I'm sorry if this question was answered above, but I didn't see: will all eight of the runways have ILS? If so, how much will that improve operations in "low clouds" situations?


No, 13R does not have and will not get ILS. You can't run simultaneous 13 landings because of airspace restrictions. That's why you almost never see ILS landings on 13R. They did develop an RNAV procedure for 13R to be used temporarily when 13L is closed.
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MO11
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:31 pm

leader1 wrote:
Just curious, but are they planning on relocating the 13L ILS Glidescope to the other side of the runway? I recall seeing it in some of the initial plans of this project, but I don't know if this got through to the final plans. For those who don't know, the radar's current location is what prevents A380s from landing on 31R.




What does the radar location have to do with the 13L ILS glide slope?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:34 pm

leader1 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I'm sorry if this question was answered above, but I didn't see: will all eight of the runways have ILS? If so, how much will that improve operations in "low clouds" situations?


No, 13R does not have and will not get ILS. You can't run simultaneous 13 landings because of airspace restrictions. That's why you almost never see ILS landings on 13R. They did develop an RNAV procedure for 13R to be used temporarily when 13L is closed.


Thank you for the information! I LOVE learning stuff like this...

I have known about the tight restrictions on the airspace of the northeast U.S. for a long time, but I didn't how know it would affect certain operations.

And on the topic of delays, I can imagine the evening trans-Atlantic rush might get tougher than it already can be, but what about the other hours?
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:35 pm

Good luck new yorkers! BOS did a bunch of runway work last summer....and it was literally hell. All my night return flights would just keep getting delayed hour by hour until finally we'd leave at some point and arrive in BOS at 1 or 2 am. It seemed the international arrivals always got precedent for a landing slot and everything else just got bumped until it was late enough that no one else needed the remaining open runways.

By the end of the summer I wised up and just starting staying an extra night to then leave first thing in the morning.
 
leader1
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:39 pm

MO11 wrote:
leader1 wrote:
Just curious, but are they planning on relocating the 13L ILS Glidescope to the other side of the runway? I recall seeing it in some of the initial plans of this project, but I don't know if this got through to the final plans. For those who don't know, the radar's current location is what prevents A380s from landing on 31R.




What does the radar location have to do with the 13L ILS glide slope?


Glide slope station. My bad.
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leader1
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:45 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
leader1 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I'm sorry if this question was answered above, but I didn't see: will all eight of the runways have ILS? If so, how much will that improve operations in "low clouds" situations?


No, 13R does not have and will not get ILS. You can't run simultaneous 13 landings because of airspace restrictions. That's why you almost never see ILS landings on 13R. They did develop an RNAV procedure for 13R to be used temporarily when 13L is closed.


Thank you for the information! I LOVE learning stuff like this...

I have known about the tight restrictions on the airspace of the northeast U.S. for a long time, but I didn't how know it would affect certain operations.

And on the topic of delays, I can imagine the evening trans-Atlantic rush might get tougher than it already can be, but what about the other hours?


LGA's airspace prevents some JFK runways from being used for takeoffs and landings. LGA is just 10 miles away from JFK. Not all Northeastern airports have these types of restrictions that the NYC airports have.

I don't think departures will be that big of an issue unless they're forced to use a 13R/31L configuration and they're down to one runway. Nowadays, they use two runways for departures during the departure rushes - 22R/4L and 31L - and all those runways will be open. Also, the evening rush is more evenly balanced with arrivals and departures than it was ten years ago.
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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:18 pm

With NY Winters this has to be done in the busy summer season unfortunately. No real way around that.

I feel like the delays last time did not live up to the hype. NY airports have delays in anything but 100% perfect conditions anyway
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:13 pm

The RPA report from a few years back suggested reorienting everything onto the 4/22s to eliminate conflicts and therefore increase capacity. I think the main issue was that LGA would lose too much capacity without using 13/31 for takeoffs. The idea was that with NextGen ATC technology, it would be possible to maintain separation while rapidly turning aircraft after they take off from 13 onto a southbound or northbound 4/22 alignment so that they don't conflict with aircraft arriving on or departing from the 4/22s at JFK. Are we at the point where that's possible?
 
asuflyer
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:42 am

Tonight JFK has had to use 31L as the sole departing and arrival runway due to winds. 5 hour delays, 50+ aircraft inline for takeoff, numerous go arounds due to spacing and diversions.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:45 am

pitbosflyer wrote:
Good luck new yorkers! BOS did a bunch of runway work last summer....and it was literally hell. All my night return flights would just keep getting delayed hour by hour until finally we'd leave at some point and arrive in BOS at 1 or 2 am. It seemed the international arrivals always got precedent for a landing slot and everything else just got bumped until it was late enough that no one else needed the remaining open runways.

By the end of the summer I wised up and just starting staying an extra night to then leave first thing in the morning.

This isn’t the first time a runway was closed due to construction, it was last summer or two summers ago.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:51 am

last summer was 22L and 22R

This closure is more significant

Anytime a cold front crosses NY, you get winds from 310. The strong winter spring and fall fronts gust to 30 or 40 knots

That throws JFK into one runway

That is what is happening tonight

5.5 hour delays

Line for takeoff starts at T5, down to the old T3 site, wraps back on 4L swings back around on 22L down to 31L

Ugly night.

But the cold fronts with this strength stop soon until September

Then we have T storm season!
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:56 am

jfklganyc wrote:
last summer was 22L and 22R

This closure is more significant

Anytime a cold front crosses NY, you get winds from 310. The strong winter spring and fall fronts gust to 30 or 40 knots

That throws JFK into one runway

That is what is happening tonight

5.5 hour delays

Line for takeoff starts at T5, down to the old T3 site, wraps back on 4L swings back around on 22L down to 31L

Ugly night.

But the cold fronts with this strength stop soon until September

Then we have T storm season!



I looked at FR24 around 20 minutes ago. I think I saw at least 100 planes wrapping around in the pattern you described! Ugly indeed.

I've seen taxi times on departing flights (Delta to Nice, AA to SFO, Aeroflot to SVO, etc.) that have been around 3.5 hours. Shortest taxi I've seen in the past hour is 1 hour 20.
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B6JFKH81
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:10 am

Holy crap, based on FR24, flights are going up 4L, down 22L, then departing 31L...and the conga line is looooooooooong!
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
panamair
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:35 am

maps4ltd wrote:
I've seen taxi times on departing flights (Delta to Nice, AA to SFO, Aeroflot to SVO, etc.) that have been around 3.5 hours. Shortest taxi I've seen in the past hour is 1 hour 20.


The Delta DL412 to NCE you mentioned actually didn’t do too badly - it had about 1.5 hour taxi time (left gate around 8:20pm, off at 9:50pm, and now with an ETA in NCE about 26 mins late).
 
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fbgdavidson
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:31 am

This is all a bit silly! 12.30am and JFK should be pretty dead by now....

Image

Hoping for winds going the other way for my flight on Thursday evening...
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maps4ltd
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:23 pm

panamair wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
I've seen taxi times on departing flights (Delta to Nice, AA to SFO, Aeroflot to SVO, etc.) that have been around 3.5 hours. Shortest taxi I've seen in the past hour is 1 hour 20.


The Delta DL412 to NCE you mentioned actually didn’t do too badly - it had about 1.5 hour taxi time (left gate around 8:20pm, off at 9:50pm, and now with an ETA in NCE about 26 mins late).


Yeah, I was just throwing flights that departed around 9:30 EDT on there. There were also some strong tailwinds; N835MH (the operating 764) appears to have reached 700 MPH ground speed near Nova Scotia.
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Austin787
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:17 pm

I'm seeing some AUS-JFK/JFK-AUS flights which have delays longer than the flight itself. Hoping for calm winds and good weather for my JFK flights on 5/31 and 6/3.
 
LH707330
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:05 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Is there much of an advantage to having a 200 foot wide runway than a 150 foot? Lots of major airports in the US have 150 foot wide runways.

I was wondering the same thing. 747s and A380s seem to be fine with the narrower runways, maybe the idea is to reduce FOD that gets blown around by outboard engines.
 
evank516
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:47 pm

This is why I'm doing all of my flying out of LGA this summer. I prefer JFK, but I've seen the impact a runway closure has on bad weather days. Let's face it, NYC weather really sucks for most of the year We caught a break this winter with barely any snow, and certainly no nor'easters like we normally get in the winter, but the weather here sucks in general.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Busy JFK Runway to Close for 6 Months for Construction

Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:04 pm

So this runway improvement will cost 600 millions dollars ? Isn't that a bit steep ?
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