Looking at the March update of the @Airbus orderbook, it seems #IAG has shuffled some of their #A350-orders as 4 #A359 orders have been moved from @AerLingus to @Iberia. #AerLingus now has five on order and #Iberia a total of 20, with 3 so far delivered.

¿How many orders and options have IAG of A350?

I still want to see EI go for the A330-900.

Are Aer Lingus actually likely to see an A350 ?

pabloeing wrote:

Looking at the March update of the @Airbus orderbook, it seems #IAG has shuffled some of their #A350-orders as 4 #A359 orders have been moved from @AerLingus to @Iberia. #AerLingus now has five on order and #Iberia a total of 20, with 3 so far delivered.

Good thing IAG can swap aircrafts as needed. I guess those A350 deliver more savings on IB long haul routes than on EI routes which can be flown with the A330.
I would like to know if Aer Lingus is getting more A330 from the IB fleet to compensate.

Next year, the 757 capacity contracted to ASL would have to stop as the US won't allow that wetlease for much longer. They are going to need some aircrafts to cover for the lost of these 4x350 and 4x757

pabloeing wrote:

¿How many orders and options have IAG of A350?

According to IAG Capitals Day'18 PPT, this is the fleet planning for the upcoming years:

A350:
2018 2
2019 10
2020 21
2021 25
2022 34
2023 38

The 757s are being replaced by the A321NEOs surely

EI's route network really does not call for a long haul aircraft like the A350. They can get the fuel efficiency benefits with the A330-NEO no, which has the range for all their long hauls not planned for a narrow body?

Happy to see IB take them . Would love to see an additional order of 20/30 extra A321LR for EI ... it’s a real game changer ..... especially now that Wow is out of the market.

Galwayman wrote:

Would love to see an additional order of 20/30 extra A321LR for EI ... it’s a real game changer ..... especially now that Wow is out of the market.

I'd love it too. And even IB on MAD-Africa routes.

There are now 4x321 flying long-haul. By end 2019, there will be 4 321-NEO LR and by 2018 there will be 8 in total. So 12x321 for Long Haul missions.
Given, these will have to replace the 4 757 flying under the ASL contract, yes. They are too few

New routes to be announced?

Not at he moment. Effectine sept 1st IB cancels JNB. LIM will see its 10 flights a week continue the whole winter. SJU will go from seasonal to year round this winter

¿IB out of JNB again?

Posted yesterday here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1419641&p=21249747&hilit=JNB#p21249747

skipness1E wrote:

The 757s are being replaced by the A321NEOs surely

I read an interview with EI CEO in one of the aviation magazines recently in which he pointed out that the fate of the ASL operation with the 757 is not necessarily linked to A321NEO acquisitions. I suppose that the ASL contract gives EI some flexibility (if they get their mess with US authorities sorted out)

IB needs a large airplane like the A35K ......

vfw614 wrote:

skipness1E wrote:

The 757s are being replaced by the A321NEOs surely

I read an interview with EI CEO in one of the aviation magazines recently in which he pointed out that the fate of the ASL operation with the 757 is not necessarily linked to A321NEO acquisitions. I suppose that the ASL contract gives EI some flexibility (if they get their mess with US authorities sorted out)

The US TATL 757 flying will be replaced by A321 for sure. There is no way around it as the US won't allow it for any longer.

But the ASL contract can be used elsewhere. Think of Canary Islands where the capacity can be filled while the A321s can be used for US flying.
East Canada is also within reach for these birds should hey want to use ASL for Canada..

pabloeing wrote:

IB needs a large airplane like the A35K ......

Why?

Aisak wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

Would love to see an additional order of 20/30 extra A321LR for EI ... it’s a real game changer ..... especially now that Wow is out of the market.

I'd love it too. And even IB on MAD-Africa routes.

There are now 4x321 flying long-haul. By end 2019, there will be 4 321-NEO LR and by 2018 there will be 8 in total. So 12x321 for Long Haul missions.
Given, these will have to replace the 4 757 flying under the ASL contract, yes. They are too few

There are 3 A321s flying for EI right now, they do not do long haul or transatlantic. The first two A321LRs are scheduled to be arriving later in the summer, with ideally two more before the end of the year assuming no delays. There are 8 confirmed orders with options currently for up to 14. The first 757 will leave next year, with the remaining three leaving in 2021, with the last three A321LRs replacing the 757s as they come online. They are gaining four aircraft over the current number of 757s, and potentially up to another 6, they do not need more orders right now.

[threeid][/threeid]

a350lover wrote:

Posted yesterday here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1419641&p=21249747&hilit=JNB#p21249747

Its a pity how IB is looking elsewhere and not Africa....they have an outstanding position to cover Africa with the 321lr and provide good connections to Europe , America and in a lesser extend to Asia..

To me (and I am much more familiar with DL/AF/KL/AZ than IAG) the 350s make more sense for IB than EI given the routes that each flies.

alancostello wrote:

There are 3 A321s flying for EI right now, they do not do long haul or transatlantic. The first two A321LRs are scheduled to be arriving later in the summer, with ideally two more before the end of the year assuming no delays.

Sorry I was not clear. I was checking IAG global fleet figures. The 4 A321 flying longhaul must be those flying MAD-Africa.

When replying to the post wishing for 20 frames, I was also wishing more A321 flying long haul (but with the decent config being used by EI) from MAD.

http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml? ... sentations.
Capital Markets Day 2018 -> Page 167

alancostello wrote:

Aisak wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

Would love to see an additional order of 20/30 extra A321LR for EI ... it’s a real game changer ..... especially now that Wow is out of the market.

I'd love it too. And even IB on MAD-Africa routes.

There are now 4x321 flying long-haul. By end 2019, there will be 4 321-NEO LR and by 2018 there will be 8 in total. So 12x321 for Long Haul missions.
Given, these will have to replace the 4 757 flying under the ASL contract, yes. They are too few

There are 3 A321s flying for EI right now, they do not do long haul or transatlantic. The first two A321LRs are scheduled to be arriving later in the summer, with ideally two more before the end of the year assuming no delays. There are 8 confirmed orders with options currently for up to 14. The first 757 will leave next year, with the remaining three leaving in 2021, with the last three A321LRs replacing the 757s as they come online. They are gaining four aircraft over the current number of 757s, and potentially up to another 6, they do not need more orders right now.

There’s no such thing as order for ‘right now ‘ ... orders are for 5/10/15 year strategies .... failing to order the right aircraft in advance has finished many airlines off ... including nearly killing Qantas

The A321LR order book is filling fast , thankfully IAG are strategic thinkers and hopefully will have their eye on the ball .

The A321LR is clearly going to be EI single greatest aircraft , it is perfect for the Irish market and the DUB hub location

Aisak wrote:

vfw614 wrote:

skipness1E wrote:

The 757s are being replaced by the A321NEOs surely

I read an interview with EI CEO in one of the aviation magazines recently in which he pointed out that the fate of the ASL operation with the 757 is not necessarily linked to A321NEO acquisitions. I suppose that the ASL contract gives EI some flexibility (if they get their mess with US authorities sorted out)

The US TATL 757 flying will be replaced by A321 for sure. There is no way around it as the US won't allow it for any longer.

But the ASL contract can be used elsewhere. Think of Canary Islands where the capacity can be filled while the A321s can be used for US flying.
East Canada is also within reach for these birds should hey want to use ASL for Canada..

Agree completely ... for IB and EI the advantages are spectacular , long thin USA and Africa routes , increase frequency ( and therefore increased yield )

It will work well with the A350 for IB and the A330 for EI .
EI never needed the A350 , it’s a relief that they’re not being delivered

My only doubt here is whether this means any increase of IB total fleet or instead they will just send back to EI few A330s?

On top of all this, Vicent Hodder (current LEVEL ceo) seemed quite realistic last week when he claimed "BCN operation through Iberia is comfy and feels like being home (especially when compared to the same base in ORY which has seen lots of irregularities and issues), but this will change in a year or two". 2 of the A330s which first served LEVEL from BCN are Iberia's. The 3rd (taken last year) and the new one arriving this July are IAG's. I am not sure whether IB could get back its first 2 given to LEVEL once they stop serving the "brand" in BCN-long haul operation. May these end up in EI? They seat 314 pax, in a slightly different configuration to the rest A330s in Iberia. They offer Economy and Premium Economy classes.

Is all the future wide-body fleet coming to IB A359s? Any possibility to receive further versions of the 330 families?

Aisak wrote:

alancostello wrote:

There are 3 A321s flying for EI right now, they do not do long haul or transatlantic. The first two A321LRs are scheduled to be arriving later in the summer, with ideally two more before the end of the year assuming no delays.

Sorry I was not clear. I was checking IAG global fleet figures. The 4 A321 flying longhaul must be those flying MAD-Africa.

When replying to the post wishing for 20 frames, I was also wishing more A321 flying long haul (but with the decent config being used by EI) from MAD.

http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml? ... sentations.
Capital Markets Day 2018 -> Page 167

If you're looking at IAG as a whole, then the 4 A321s are in fact BA's. They have 4 planes equipped with long-haul Y and J seating, though BA themselves describe them as "mid-haul". They're ceos, and are used to destinations like AMM, BEY, CAI, and DME, (and occasionally TLV) with fill-in duties on shorthaul work. So no EI or IB involvement at all.

Finally flew for the first time on an LH A350 this past Tuesday from MUC to YUL. Was I ever impressed, really gutted AC never ordered it and went for the 787 instead.

a350lover wrote:

My only doubt here is whether this means any increase of IB total fleet or instead they will just send back to EI few A330s?

On top of all this, Vicent Hodder (current LEVEL ceo) seemed quite realistic last week when he claimed "BCN operation through Iberia is comfy and feels like being home (especially when compared to the same base in ORY which has seen lots of irregularities and issues), but this will change in a year or two". 2 of the A330s which first served LEVEL from BCN are Iberia's. The 3rd (taken last year) and the new one arriving this July are IAG's. I am not sure whether IB could get back its first 2 given to LEVEL once they stop serving the "brand" in BCN-long haul operation. May these end up in EI? They seat 314 pax, in a slightly different configuration to the rest A330s in Iberia. They offer Economy and Premium Economy classes.

Is all the future wide-body fleet coming to IB A359s? Any possibility to receive further versions of the 330 families?

IMO IB should get the newer versions of the 330 family and use them in the routes to the Caribean and the East coast in NA...

Galwayman wrote:

alancostello wrote:

Aisak wrote:

I'd love it too. And even IB on MAD-Africa routes.

There are now 4x321 flying long-haul. By end 2019, there will be 4 321-NEO LR and by 2018 there will be 8 in total. So 12x321 for Long Haul missions.
Given, these will have to replace the 4 757 flying under the ASL contract, yes. They are too few

There are 3 A321s flying for EI right now, they do not do long haul or transatlantic. The first two A321LRs are scheduled to be arriving later in the summer, with ideally two more before the end of the year assuming no delays. There are 8 confirmed orders with options currently for up to 14. The first 757 will leave next year, with the remaining three leaving in 2021, with the last three A321LRs replacing the 757s as they come online. They are gaining four aircraft over the current number of 757s, and potentially up to another 6, they do not need more orders right now.

There’s no such thing as order for ‘right now ‘ ... orders are for 5/10/15 year strategies .... failing to order the right aircraft in advance has finished many airlines off ... including nearly killing Qantas

The A321LR order book is filling fast , thankfully IAG are strategic thinkers and hopefully will have their eye on the ball .

The A321LR is clearly going to be EI single greatest aircraft , it is perfect for the Irish market and the DUB hub location

You do realise that EI's orders for the A321LR came from lessors right? They haven't been held for a very long time. If they need more A321LRs IAG can get them as soon as they need them. Look how quickly they've rustled up new or used A330s for EI over the last five years. They have firmed orders for 8 and options for nearly double that, they're good on at least the 5-10 year front.

Aisak wrote:

The US TATL 757 flying will be replaced by A321 for sure.
There is no way around it as the US won't allow it for any longer.
.

How do I have to understand that? ( lead me

The next widebody selection at IAG will be tied to expansion of LEVEL.

Whether for 338s or 788s or larger, LEVEL will want a single-model fleet and their 332s will be RE-shuffled within IAG, including maybe EI.

WIederling wrote:

Aisak wrote:

The US TATL 757 flying will be replaced by A321 for sure.
There is no way around it as the US won't allow it for any longer.
.

How do I have to understand that? ( lead me

Have a read here:

viewtopic.php?t=1416509

SQ22 wrote:

WIederling wrote:

Aisak wrote:

The US TATL 757 flying will be replaced by A321 for sure.
There is no way around it as the US won't allow it for any longer.
.

How do I have to understand that? ( lead me

Have a read here:
viewtopic.php?t=1416509

( thanks, gives: US limitations introduced on wet leases.)
This then is not a hardware ( 757 ) TATL issue but a regulatory one, right?
This will go away or not more on ownership than on type change.

JerseyFlyer wrote:

The next widebody selection at IAG will be tied to expansion of LEVEL.

Whether for 338s or 788s or larger, LEVEL will want a single-model fleet and their 332s will be RE-shuffled within IAG, including maybe EI.

A338 or B789 LEVEL CEO said months ago.......

JFK was on single runway ops last week, so I got a good long look at the IB 350 on the taxiway

What a spectacularly-beautiful plane. It isnt graceful or bird-like like the 787. It is bigger, stockier, more bulky. It leaves an impression.

That said, why would EI need 350s?

IB will receive 2 more A359s this year, any word on the routes where these will be deployed? I’ll be flying MAD-EZE November this year, but the A350 service on this route will revert to A346 at the end of October. Not that disappointed, the A346 is still on my wish list and PE seems to be nicer on the A346 (2-3-2 seating vs 2-4-2 on the A350).

Aer Lingus ordered the A350 when it was more of a revamped A330 and not a 777 sized plane. No surprise to see them being sent over to IB.

frigatebird wrote:

I’ll be flying MAD-EZE November this year, but the A350 service on this route will revert to A346 at the end of October..

Really? Where are the bunch of A350s from IB going in November? There will be 5 of them by then...

Andy33 wrote:

If you're looking at IAG as a whole, then the 4 A321s are in fact BA's. They have 4 planes equipped with long-haul Y and J seating, though BA themselves describe them as "mid-haul". They're ceos, and are used to destinations like AMM, BEY, CAI, and DME, (and occasionally TLV) with fill-in duties on shorthaul work. So no EI or IB involvement at all.

OMG!!! I completely forgot about those G-MEDx frames from the former B/MED operation. So 4 of them are flying in a proper midhaul configuration.... so It really shocks me that IAG considers MAD to ACC or DKR as shorthaul.
Now it seems IB dropped SSG and DME where they also deployed the subleet of A319 with Business Club (not EuroBiz)... any idea of venture into Africa with A321NEO from MAD seems way more far away than ever before

Arion640 wrote:

Aer Lingus ordered the A350 when it was more of a revamped A330 and not a 777 sized plane. No surprise to see them being sent over to IB.

Not true, Aer Lingus were always XWB customers. The order was made almost a year after the redesign.

It looks like Iberia has totally removed the Business Club from the website, did the reconfigure the A39s that had it?
I wish they would have expanded the Business Club to other longer routes (Canary Islands Etc)

a350lover wrote:

frigatebird wrote:

I’ll be flying MAD-EZE November this year, but the A350 service on this route will revert to A346 at the end of October..

Really? Where are the bunch of A350s from IB going in November? There will be 5 of them by then...

That's what I was wondering about too. A350 service to ORD will apparently end in October too. I guess IB has yet to decide where to deploy the A350s for W19. Could be they stay on the same routes, I suppose some new routes may be announced too. But as said, I hope my EZE trip will still be on an A346

shamrock350 wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Aer Lingus ordered the A350 when it was more of a revamped A330 and not a 777 sized plane. No surprise to see them being sent over to IB.

Not true, Aer Lingus were always XWB customers. The order was made almost a year after the redesign.

You’re correct, looks like I was listening to a myth all this time!

a350lover wrote:

frigatebird wrote:

I’ll be flying MAD-EZE November this year, but the A350 service on this route will revert to A346 at the end of October..

Really? Where are the bunch of A350s from IB going in November? There will be 5 of them by then...

JFK lost the IB A350 too.....¿SCL-MEX new IB A350 destinations?

JerseyFlyer wrote:

The next widebody selection at IAG will be tied to expansion of LEVEL.

Whether for 338s or 788s or larger, LEVEL will want a single-model fleet and their 332s will be RE-shuffled within IAG, including maybe EI.

Aren't Aer Lingus planning on losing their 200's to focus on 300's though ? So would it make sense to transfer the 200's to Level eventually and increase EI's 300 portfolio or indeed introduce the 900 to the mix ?

pabloeing wrote:

a350lover wrote:

frigatebird wrote:

I’ll be flying MAD-EZE November this year, but the A350 service on this route will revert to A346 at the end of October..

Really? Where are the bunch of A350s from IB going in November? There will be 5 of them by then...

JFK lost the IB A350 too.....¿SCL-MEX new IB A350 destinations?

Hi,

Will be very dificult to see the A350 in MEX route. As UIO and BOG there Hot an High destinations and the long haul operations with maximum load are very difficult.

I want to see how IB is going to solve this problem because this 3 destinations are very important to them.

I can't imagine both IAG and IB haven't thought about this issue of UIO, BOG and MEX. I wonder if they could just keep a subfleet of A340s for some time longer only to serve these places. On the other hand, Aeromexico flies MEX-MAD on 787s regularly and that's just fine, so I assume the A350 could give it a go... maybe under a rather less dense cabin?

Crispi wrote:

pabloeing wrote:

a350lover wrote:

Really? Where are the bunch of A350s from IB going in November? There will be 5 of them by then...

JFK lost the IB A350 too.....¿SCL-MEX new IB A350 destinations?

Hi,

Will be very dificult to see the A350 in MEX route. As UIO and BOG there Hot an High destinations and the long haul operations with maximum load are very difficult.

I want to see how IB is going to solve this problem because this 3 destinations are very important to them.

I thought the A359 was quite renowned as a high and high performer, maybe not quite an A346, but still.

MrHMSH wrote:

Crispi wrote:

pabloeing wrote:

JFK lost the IB A350 too.....¿SCL-MEX new IB A350 destinations?

Hi,

Will be very dificult to see the A350 in MEX route. As UIO and BOG there Hot an High destinations and the long haul operations with maximum load are very difficult.

I want to see how IB is going to solve this problem because this 3 destinations are very important to them.

I thought the A359 was quite renowned as a high and high performer, maybe not quite an A346, but still.

Indeed. Perhaps the A359 may have some payload limitations to these hot and high destinations, but I don't know which aircraft would be a better alternative?
IB now has 17 A359 to be delivered, with currently 17 A346 in their fleet. So unfortunately, it looks like all of IB's A346 are on their way out, A359s carry almost the same number of passengers. Perhaps IAG will convert some to A350-1000, for destinations like EZE and SCL which seem to do very well.

MrHMSH wrote:

I thought the A359 was quite renowned as a high and high performer, maybe not quite an A346, but still.

That was also my impression. Rumours on the Irish threads that EI will begin taking A330-900 from 2020. At the moment EI don't need the payload or range capability of the A359. The increase in seating capacity for the A350 isn't as large as might be expected, 31J/24W/293Y compared to 30J/283Y for the A333 at EI, given similar J and identical Y seats, lavs and galleys.

Really EI only need the A350 if they venture east, at present they are focussed on westwards expansion, predominantly to the East Coast & Mid-West with the A321LR, although the replacement of A332s with A333/9s and the possibility of increasing frequency by replacing A330 with A321LR routes to the east coast will allow for some expansion band the A321LR range too.

a350lover wrote:

I can't imagine both IAG and IB haven't thought about this issue of UIO, BOG and MEX. I wonder if they could just keep a subfleet of A340s for some time longer only to serve these places. On the other hand, Aeromexico flies MEX-MAD on 787s regularly and that's just fine, so I assume the A350 could give it a go... maybe under a rather less dense cabin?

The A346 will still be around for a while:

2017 17
2018 17
2019 16
2020 11
2021 10
2022 4
2023 -

So IB won't have any serious problem to replace them until 2022 where 4 frames are not enough for MEX BOG and UIO.

a350lover wrote:

I wonder if they could just keep a subfleet of A340s for some time longer only to serve these places

IB in the past was not keen on maintaining a small subfleet of any aircraft. In fact, I'll be surprised if by 2022, those 4 346 are still property of IB.

The last two 747-400 flying Iberia colours where two frames wetleased from Air Atlanta: TF-AMA and TF-AMB. MAD-HAV was flown exclusively on these birds along with some TFN flights in between.
When IB retired the 757-200 from the shorthaul fleet to become an all-airbus company, the last 5 frames were sold to Gestair-audeli and wet-leased back .That way, they continued flying on the MAB-BCN shuttle route under IB colours for a while, but officially they were out of the fleet.

A similar scenario could be seen with the 346s, but the number of frames needed to do MEX, UIO and BOG might be too much capaticy for the unions to accept the outsourcing. Maintaing the Level BCN operation with IB could be a way to offset tihs.

a350lover wrote:

so I assume the A350 could give it a go... maybe under a rather less dense cabin?

If the 350 is going to suffer weight restrictions on these routes, (and there's not other suitable way to fly unles on the A350) they could just leave seats empty.
I don't know if it's worth the hassle. Bear in ming that IB has recently done just the opposite: They removed 2 rows of Business Plus on some 343 to install more economy rows. This temporary sub-fleet was meant to fly LatAm destinations with low Biz demand while waiting for the 330s. An extreme measure to increase revenues while not being able to operate a lower cost aircraft.
If MEX, UIO and BOG need more Biz seats while eco seats need to let go empty... fine, if not, just block seats and get away with it.