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mcdu
Topic Author
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Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:17 pm

Southwest is in the hot seat with customers over the handling of canceled flights. Not sure how many of these are MAX related and how many are from maintenance woes or just operational issues.

Also it appears Southwest notified many customers they had achieved a free companion pass through the Frequent Flyer program to only be told it was a mistake.

Perhaps the shark on the wall in OAK was too presumptuous?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2019/04/04/southwest-airlines-passengers-blast-airline-boeing-max-8-cancellations-customer-service/3311708002/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2019/04/05/southwest-airlines-companion-pass-error/3374423002/
 
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airportugal310
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:50 pm

That shark on the wall was literally the dumbest thing ever...serves them right
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:53 pm

The story of cancellations goes back more than a month - pre-MAX - and found its way into many threads here.
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:09 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
The story of cancellations goes back more than a month - pre-MAX - and found its way into many threads here.


The newspapers are just now catching up to the trend it seems. While it may have been discussed among the anet group the public and media are a bit behind the curve.

The inability to be rebooked in a timely manner is what may turn those diehard customers away. The lacks of ticketing agreements is a handicap for them with the MAX grounding.
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:17 pm

Tough to see my favorite airline mismanaging this crisis. It is obvious to all that this grounding will be many months. There are 160 737-800’s in storage including many that are less than 5 years old. SWA needs to make some deals and fast to preserve their brand. And they need to put N772SW back into service as it has been fully repaired and the accident was due to an engine and not the hull.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:25 pm

a lot of those complaints in the article were in March which is truly March Madness. As a career corporate travel professional, I loathed that month as any glitch, weather or mechanical was potentially catastrophic as there simply were no vacancies on other flights (true of ALL airlines). We were not even aloud to take time off during that month as " all hands on deck" applied.!
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:27 pm

n471wn wrote:
Tough to see my favorite airline mismanaging this crisis. It is obvious to all that this grounding will be many months. There are 160 737-800’s in storage including many that are less than 5 years old. SWA needs to make some deals and fast to preserve their brand. And they need to put N772SW back into service as it has been fully repaired and the accident was due to an engine and not the hull.

The problem isn’t MAX related. It is not so easy to rebook on Southwest. I don’t think they need interline agreements for rebooking. They are a big enough airline. I think this is maintenance staff related. Once the media noticed the problem has likely past peaked.
 
N415XJ
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:36 pm

For anyone who, like me, didn't know what the "shark on the wall at OAK" was referencing

https://onemileatatime.com/southwest-ai ... aii-shark/
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:42 pm

As a soon to be former CSA at WN, the MAX grounding is killing us (non mechanics) the most. The bad timing with Spring Break made it even harder with all flights at my station being full. My Cohearts fought valiantly and with Spring Break all but over the light at the end of the tunnel can be seen.

But I'm still surprised that Southwest, as brilliant as it it, still hasnt been able to implement a plan to relieve it. Surly a deal could be struck with the FAA to bring back some of the 300s that are still on lease from the dessert.

Oversell after oversell this Spring Break was very taxing on is CSAs. The MAX made things worse and caused a huge amount of shuffling to be done aircraft wise, the worst being down gauges. And yet I even saw a couple up gauges...
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:53 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
But I'm still surprised that Southwest, as brilliant as it it, still hasnt been able to implement a plan to relieve it. Surly a deal could be struck with the FAA to bring back some of the 300s that are still on lease from the dessert.


Even if WN could reach an agreement with the FAA, I'd suspect that most of the 733s are stripped of parts, making it difficult, if not impossible, to place them back into service to fill the 3M8s that are not in service. I know this idea has been broached on other WN-related threads, and I hate to sound like a broken record, but the 733s aren't coming back.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 pm

34 airplanes ripped from the schedule during Spring Break. Nope, not MAX related at all. :roll:
 
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Revelation
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:02 am

TWA772LR wrote:
As a soon to be former CSA at WN, the MAX grounding is killing us (non mechanics) the most. The bad timing with Spring Break made it even harder with all flights at my station being full. My Cohearts fought valiantly and with Spring Break all but over the light at the end of the tunnel can be seen.

But I'm still surprised that Southwest, as brilliant as it it, still hasnt been able to implement a plan to relieve it. Surly a deal could be struck with the FAA to bring back some of the 300s that are still on lease from the dessert.

Oversell after oversell this Spring Break was very taxing on is CSAs. The MAX made things worse and caused a huge amount of shuffling to be done aircraft wise, the worst being down gauges. And yet I even saw a couple up gauges...

Deal? I doubt the FAA is in any mood to be making deals. The last thing they want to be seen as doing would be cutting a deal with a corporation to pull older planes out of the desert to help another corporation.

Besides I don't think a deal with FAA is needed. My recollection is that FAA told WN that it would not allow pilots to switch between the three generations of 737 (classic, ng, max) but two were fine. In theory WN could have segregated its pilots to just fly two of the three types, but WN didn't want the operational headaches so the classics went to the desert early. Now that the MAX is not an option, there is no real need to have a special deal.

The real holdup is those planes would need a bunch of maintenance checks and the pilots would need some currency checks and all of that is problematic, so for WN they may be choosing between two problematic alternatives.
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:04 am

My dad had his flight cancelled and they re-routed in TPA-ATL-HOU-HRL, they blamed the MAX issue.

WN gave him $300 in flight vouchers.
 
737max8
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:06 am

There are no more WN 300s. Please stop rehashing this. It literally is impossible no matter what the FAA says.

The problem with the MAX is no one knows how long it's going to be grounded for. How far ahead do you cancel/remove from the schedule? The longer it goes the better it will get as flights will not be sold that won't operate.
 
YellowJ
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:08 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
34 airplanes ripped from the schedule during Spring Break. Nope, not MAX related at all. :roll:


Problems started way before the groundings. The MAX might have added more fuel to the fire, but the fire was blazing months ago.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:09 am

A travel agent told me that spring break was usually higher traffic than any official (US) holiday, since spring break is spread over several weeks (different colleges having different academic schedules). True?
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:17 am

YellowJ wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
34 airplanes ripped from the schedule during Spring Break. Nope, not MAX related at all. :roll:


Problems started way before the groundings. The MAX might have added more fuel to the fire, but the fire was blazing months ago.


Yes I understand that. I believe the MX issues have calmed down, though. They’ve been hit with a one-two punch. Really unfortunate timing.
 
smartplane
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:21 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
Problems started way before the groundings. The MAX might have added more fuel to the fire, but the fire was blazing months ago.


Yes I understand that. I believe the MX issues have calmed down, though. They’ve been hit with a one-two punch. Really unfortunate timing.

Surely with no MAX, they have a higher ratio of MX staff to aircraft, so maintenance backlog should reduce, partly offset by increased utilisation of remaining fleet.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:19 am

mcdu wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
The story of cancellations goes back more than a month - pre-MAX - and found its way into many threads here.


The newspapers are just now catching up to the trend it seems. While it may have been discussed among the anet group the public and media are a bit behind the curve.

The inability to be rebooked in a timely manner is what may turn those diehard customers away. The lacks of ticketing agreements is a handicap for them with the MAX grounding.


I’ve never had an issue being rebooked on WN. Their network is conducive to it because they have no mega-hubs. Also, changes and cancellations are so easy on WN that “self-help” on OALs is actually easier than it is on other carriers.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:23 am

WN has had as many as 7000 calls on hold for res, with agents being required to work mandatory OT per their contract, and no end in sight. Passengers are being rebooked online only as many as 4 days from the original travel, with no compensation offered because it’s out of their control.

To quote a WN res agent friend, “We’re getting killed and people are quitting over this. It’s ridiculous.”
 
RickNRoll
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:31 am

This is Karma coming back to bite them. A large part of the problems with the MAX were the NW insistence that it be done to suit them with no regard to the compromises that would have to be made.
 
hohd
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:46 am

One of the downfalls of relying on a single manufacturer. You save on parts but in times like these it will be difficult. In addition with no interlines, it will be a rough few months for SW customers. I booked a flight myself and generally avoid SW, but did it anyway.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:33 am

I don't regularly fly WN but usually have no issue doing so when they're the only ones doing the route. But I've had a few of my clients who are diehard WN flyers have their business and personal travels seriously disrupted and they're claiming with very short notice. But having worked for an airline a decade ago I also know people embellish or flat out lie about stuff like this in regards how things are handled.
 
Chemist
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:37 am

Well they are still having sales, so some routes probably have excess capacity.
 
739er
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:57 am

N415XJ wrote:
For anyone who, like me, didn't know what the "shark on the wall at OAK" was referencing

https://onemileatatime.com/southwest-ai ... aii-shark/


Absolutely classless, disgusting, and immature.
 
raddek
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:36 am

So my next question is, why WN isn't calling up Miami Air and other charter carriers to backfill some of their flying? They should be lighting up any charter carrier that has 737's etc, to help them maintain schedule integrity to the best of their abilities. Airlines have done this method for far less.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:42 am

Just one random person's opinion, but I was unaffected by any of WN's issues. Both of my flights with them last month after the MAX 8 grounding, both on a regular -700 and -800 operated fine, on-time, and with cheery employees that I expect from WN. Guess I was flying routes WN didn't bother cancelling.
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:45 am

raddek wrote:
So my next question is, why WN isn't calling up Miami Air and other charter carriers to backfill some of their flying? They should be lighting up any charter carrier that has 737's etc, to help them maintain schedule integrity to the best of their abilities. Airlines have done this method for far less.


I would guess the pilots union for one has a scope clause restricting the ability to have outsourced flying covering WN ops.
 
mcdu
Topic Author
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:47 am

739er wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
For anyone who, like me, didn't know what the "shark on the wall at OAK" was referencing

https://onemileatatime.com/southwest-ai ... aii-shark/


Absolutely classless, disgusting, and immature.


WN may have officially jumped the shark this time.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:47 am

I wondered about this with my most recent itinerary. I was booked to fly OAK-DEN at 1pm last Wednesday, and while it was never cancelled, my reservation noted that because of operational difficulties, I could change my flight for free. I ended up changing my flight to this week for other reasons, but I later noticed that there was no longer that flight on the schedule last week, nor was there a 1pm OAK-DEN to switch to this Wednesday.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:18 am

Southwest made their bed by arm-twisting Boeing to build the MAX, now is their time to lie in it.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:19 am

raddek wrote:
So my next question is, why WN isn't calling up Miami Air and other charter carriers to backfill some of their flying? They should be lighting up any charter carrier that has 737's etc, to help them maintain schedule integrity to the best of their abilities. Airlines have done this method for far less.

It’s called a Pilot’s Contract and Scope.
 
invertalon
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:35 am

People are really bothered by the shark thing? Oh, come on...
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:59 am

invertalon wrote:
People are really bothered by the shark thing? Oh, come on...

Right? It gave me a good laugh
 
ScottB
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:17 am

invertalon wrote:
People are really bothered by the shark thing? Oh, come on...


Seems more like manufactured offense taken by folks who are looking for a reason. It'd be one thing if it were in a public-facing area but in an employee-only setting? It's certainly nowhere near as classless as United's TORQUE stunt back in the days when they and Continental both had a hub at Denver Stapleton.

mcdu wrote:
The inability to be rebooked in a timely manner is what may turn those diehard customers away. The lacks of ticketing agreements is a handicap for them with the MAX grounding.


It's not a problem unique to WN. When everyone is running 80+% load factors it's going to be difficult to find seats on OALs at the last minute, and DL/AA/UA are usually unwilling to rebook to another carrier unless pressed (or unless you have very high status).
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:31 am

The real Southwest died after AirTran. Herb will be rolling in his grave in a few years. Hawaii could honestly be a flop.
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:15 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
34 airplanes ripped from the schedule during Spring Break. Nope, not MAX related at all. :roll:


Problems started way before the groundings. The MAX might have added more fuel to the fire, but the fire was blazing months ago.


Yes I understand that. I believe the MX issues have calmed down, though. They’ve been hit with a one-two punch. Really unfortunate timing.


I believe the mechanics have an offer to vote on after 6 years.
 
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OneSexyL1011
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:35 am

Thats what happens when you lack interline agreements with other airlines in cities you fly in. Not as easy to just rebook on lets say... United or AA
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:17 am

TWA772LR wrote:
As a soon to be former CSA at WN, the MAX grounding is killing us (non mechanics) the most. The bad timing with Spring Break made it even harder with all flights at my station being full. My Cohearts fought valiantly and with Spring Break all but over the light at the end of the tunnel can be seen.

But I'm still surprised that Southwest, as brilliant as it it, still hasnt been able to implement a plan to relieve it. Surly a deal could be struck with the FAA to bring back some of the 300s that are still on lease from the dessert.

Oversell after oversell this Spring Break was very taxing on is CSAs. The MAX made things worse and caused a huge amount of shuffling to be done aircraft wise, the worst being down gauges. And yet I even saw a couple up gauges...


That would be far more time consuming/costly/ tedious than it's worth. Those airplanes are not airwothy and would need to be recertified.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:14 am

Is WN not cancelling flights well out in advance, like AA is? Better to be reaccomodating advance bookings versus day of departure plus 1 or 2. Especially without interline as a back up. Some might argue AA is being overly cautious, but then if the Max is back in the air sooner, they can just start swapping them back in and even add extra sections until they get back to planned schedule. Is WN too optimistic on an early return?
 
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STT757
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:59 am

WPvsMW wrote:
A travel agent told me that spring break was usually higher traffic than any official (US) holiday, since spring break is spread over several weeks (different colleges having different academic schedules). True?


That’s when I take my family on vacation each year, WN to Orlando.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
bob75013
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:29 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Hawaii could honestly be a flop.


Based on What?
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:30 pm

bob75013 wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Hawaii could honestly be a flop.


Based on What?

Conjecture, speculation, and rumor...which is all you need on the internet to post it as the hard truth.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:32 pm

bob75013 wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Hawaii could honestly be a flop.


Based on What?


An operational stand point. I hope the service is reliable. Don’t wanna see a lot of cancellations because of MX. The inter island stuff could be a little tricky for them. I assume the competition with HA will be interesting.
 
bob75013
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:39 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Hawaii could honestly be a flop.


Based on What?


An operational stand point. I hope the service is reliable. Don’t wanna see a lot of cancellations because of MX. The inter island stuff could be a little tricky for them. I assume the competition with HA will be interesting.


SW is using 738s in Hawaii, and mechanics got a contract 3+ weeks ago that make SW mechanics the highest paid in the country.
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 497
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:03 pm

STT757 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
A travel agent told me that spring break was usually higher traffic than any official (US) holiday, since spring break is spread over several weeks (different colleges having different academic schedules). True?


That’s when I take my family on vacation each year, WN to Orlando.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I feel for you. Orlando. Every year... :boggled:
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:08 pm

File this in the already very full file of "carrier that kept systems as bare-bones as possible discovers it's grown to have the size and complexity of a legacy."
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1716
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:22 pm

seabosdca wrote:
File this in the already very full file of "carrier that kept systems as bare-bones as possible discovers it's grown to have the size and complexity of a legacy."


Agree....that seems to be a very succinct description.

Agree also with some of the other posters, but would point out that WRT the mechanic's contract, 80% of Southwest maintenenance is contracted out. Those 80% didn't get squat. Industry darling Southwest has come to earth at last it would seem
 
Lootess
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:27 pm

seabosdca wrote:
File this in the already very full file of "carrier that kept systems as bare-bones as possible discovers it's grown to have the size and complexity of a legacy."


Just sad people refer to SW as LCC when they are really not, they cost more than many legacies and have the same complications, just being walled off to everyone else makes it worse when something goes wrong.
 
drdisque
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Re: Southwest customers unhappy about growing cancellations

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:35 pm

Is there any breakdown as to what WN large stations have had the most cancellations?

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