Page 1 of 1

JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:28 am
by flyinghippo
Hopefully, the current renovation plans for JFK will begin as planned in 2020, and complete by 2025 (hopefully). Once complete, JFK will have 3 mega terminal buildings in place:

Terminal 1 & 2, with a connection to Terminal 4
Terminal 5 & 6 & 7
Terminal 8

Which airlines would occupy these terminals?

I see Star Alliance (LH group, BR, AC, NH, etc) and Skyteam (KE, AF, CI, MU) consolidate at the new Terminal 1, while Delta/VS takes all the gates at T4 (and maybe some gates at T1 for the loss of gates at T2?).

OW members will all consolidate at T8 (JL?, BA, CX, and AA, etc.) - would that have enough gates at peak hours? Would JL give up T1?

That leaves B6 and the rest non-alliance members (EK, QR) at the mega terminal at T5/6/7

Realistic?

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:26 am
by American 767
With all due respect to you, this is how I see JFK in the future:

-First of all, there is no more Terminal 6.

-Terminal 5 is where TWA used to be, where JetBlue is now and where the TWA hotel will open soon.

-I see Terminal 1 becoming the Star Allinace Terminal, it would host all the Star airlines flying to JFK: Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, ANA, Brussels Airlines, Turkish, Air China and Singapore. I don't see United coming back to JFK.

-Terminal 2: demolished. They demolished Terminal 3 which was an iconic building, so I don't see why Terminal 2 wouldn't be demolished.

-Terminal 4 could be extended to where Terminal 3 used to be and it will be De;ta's terminal both domestic and Interational, as well as all other Sky Team airlines and Delta's codeshare partners that fly to JFK: Air France, Aeroflot, Alitalia, KLM, Virgin Atlantic and Westjet.
-The other side of Terminal 4 would host some international airlines not belonging to alliances: Emirates, El Al, Etihad, Qatar, Aerolineas Argentinas...just to name a few.

-Terminal 5 would still be JetlBlue's fortress but would also host Aer Lingus, and maybe Icelandair.

-Terminal 7: demolished. All One World airlines will more to Terminal 8 and non One World airlines will go to other terminals. For example, ANA to Terminal 1 as mentioned, Icelandair to either Terminal 5 or 4.

-Terminal 8: One World. American isn't going to make of JFK a mega hub as discussed intensively in other threads so there will be enough room for other One World airlines. British Airways has already made plans to move to Terminal 8 in 2022. JAL could leave Terminal 1, although I don't think they have plans to do so, and go to Terminal 8. So in other words, if JAL ever vacates Terminal 1 they would go to Terminal 8.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:37 am
by American 767
Following my previous post:

So there would be 4 terminals, under that plan: Terminal 1, 4, 5 and 8. Eventually they will be renamed as A, B, C and D respectively. So in summary: Terminal A Star, Terminal B, Delta, Sky Team and others, Terminal C JetBlue and Terminal D One World. The Air Train would still be there, serving these four terminals and go to either Jamaica or Far Rockaway, as it currently does. This is how I see JFK in 2030.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:41 am
by cpl22586
JetBlue plans to redevelop T6/T7 with a new 12-gate widebody facility (or a 19-gate narrowbody facility). JetBlues' ultimate goal is for a seamlessly connected T5, T6 and T7. JetBlue also still has the rights to developer the old T6 footprint which is currently ised to hardstands. JetBlue is partnered with JFK Millennium Partners to develop the new mega terminal.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:46 am
by cpl22586
American 767 wrote:
Following my previous post:

So there would be 4 terminals, under that plan: Terminal 1, 4, 5 and 8. Eventually they will be renamed as A, B, C and D respectively. So in summary: Terminal A Star, Terminal B, Delta, Sky Team and others, Terminal C JetBlue and Terminal D One World. The Air Train would still be there, serving these four terminals and go to either Jamaica or Far Rockaway, as it currently does. This is how I see JFK in 2030.



I don't see them renaming the terminals A B C D. Throughout JetBlue the JFK terminal is known as T5 and I just don't see that changing. Also the future renderings have the JetBlue expansion going by T6.
I'm curious to see what the future for the air train holds. A connection to Far Rockaway would be cool.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:33 am
by FromCDGtoSYD
The way I see it T4 has a very flawed design, I wonder if a toast rack terminal that would run parallel to the taxiways wouldn't be more efficient. And would finally make hub operations really viable. The bill would be tremendous but in the long run it's the only way to avoid roadblocks in the future.

As it stands now JFK is just like LAX, a patchwork of terminals that has to be adressessed before its too late.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:35 am
by N757ST
cpl22586 wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Following my previous post:

So there would be 4 terminals, under that plan: Terminal 1, 4, 5 and 8. Eventually they will be renamed as A, B, C and D respectively. So in summary: Terminal A Star, Terminal B, Delta, Sky Team and others, Terminal C JetBlue and Terminal D One World. The Air Train would still be there, serving these four terminals and go to either Jamaica or Far Rockaway, as it currently does. This is how I see JFK in 2030.



I don't see them renaming the terminals A B C D. Throughout JetBlue the JFK terminal is known as T5 and I just don't see that changing. Also the future renderings have the JetBlue expansion going by T6.
I'm curious to see what the future for the air train holds. A connection to Far Rockaway would be cool.


In what world would the airtrain go to far rock away? The airtrain will be exactly as it is except with added capacity.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:41 am
by jfklganyc
American 767 wrote:
With all due respect to you, this is how I see JFK in the future:

-First of all, there is no more Terminal 6.

-Terminal 5 is where TWA used to be, where JetBlue is now and where the TWA hotel will open soon.

-I see Terminal 1 becoming the Star Allinace Terminal, it would host all the Star airlines flying to JFK: Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, ANA, Brussels Airlines, Turkish, Air China and Singapore. I don't see United coming back to JFK.

-Terminal 2: demolished. They demolished Terminal 3 which was an iconic building, so I don't see why Terminal 2 wouldn't be demolished.

-Terminal 4 could be extended to where Terminal 3 used to be and it will be De;ta's terminal both domestic and Interational, as well as all other Sky Team airlines and Delta's codeshare partners that fly to JFK: Air France, Aeroflot, Alitalia, KLM, Virgin Atlantic and Westjet.
-The other side of Terminal 4 would host some international airlines not belonging to alliances: Emirates, El Al, Etihad, Qatar, Aerolineas Argentinas...just to name a few.

-Terminal 5 would still be JetlBlue's fortress but would also host Aer Lingus, and maybe Icelandair.

-Terminal 7: demolished. All One World airlines will more to Terminal 8 and non One World airlines will go to other terminals. For example, ANA to Terminal 1 as mentioned, Icelandair to either Terminal 5 or 4.

-Terminal 8: One World. American isn't going to make of JFK a mega hub as discussed intensively in other threads so there will be enough room for other One World airlines. British Airways has already made plans to move to Terminal 8 in 2022. JAL could leave Terminal 1, although I don't think they have plans to do so, and go to Terminal 8 . So in other words, if JAL ever vacates Terminal 1 they would go to Terminal 8.



He wasn’t being hypothetical on his post

There is a master plan in place in which a new terminal 1 will be built over terminals 1 2 and 3

Terminal 5 6 and 7will become one large terminal

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:47 pm
by aemoreira1981
jfklganyc wrote:
American 767 wrote:
With all due respect to you, this is how I see JFK in the future:

-First of all, there is no more Terminal 6.

-Terminal 5 is where TWA used to be, where JetBlue is now and where the TWA hotel will open soon.

-I see Terminal 1 becoming the Star Allinace Terminal, it would host all the Star airlines flying to JFK: Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, ANA, Brussels Airlines, Turkish, Air China and Singapore. I don't see United coming back to JFK.

-Terminal 2: demolished. They demolished Terminal 3 which was an iconic building, so I don't see why Terminal 2 wouldn't be demolished.

-Terminal 4 could be extended to where Terminal 3 used to be and it will be De;ta's terminal both domestic and Interational, as well as all other Sky Team airlines and Delta's codeshare partners that fly to JFK: Air France, Aeroflot, Alitalia, KLM, Virgin Atlantic and Westjet.
-The other side of Terminal 4 would host some international airlines not belonging to alliances: Emirates, El Al, Etihad, Qatar, Aerolineas Argentinas...just to name a few.

-Terminal 5 would still be JetlBlue's fortress but would also host Aer Lingus, and maybe Icelandair.

-Terminal 7: demolished. All One World airlines will more to Terminal 8 and non One World airlines will go to other terminals. For example, ANA to Terminal 1 as mentioned, Icelandair to either Terminal 5 or 4.

-Terminal 8: One World. American isn't going to make of JFK a mega hub as discussed intensively in other threads so there will be enough room for other One World airlines. British Airways has already made plans to move to Terminal 8 in 2022. JAL could leave Terminal 1, although I don't think they have plans to do so, and go to Terminal 8 . So in other words, if JAL ever vacates Terminal 1 they would go to Terminal 8.



He wasn’t being hypothetical on his post

There is a master plan in place in which a new terminal 1 will be built over terminals 1 2 and 3

Terminal 5 6 and 7will become one large terminal


The existing T1 is less than 25 years old though...unless there is a plan for a new annex terminal for T4. JetBlue will have a massive T5/7 terminal and I expect any airline that is allied with B6 in terms of codeshares (not already in an alliance) to move to T8, with other airlines moving to T4 in their place. I expect airlines like EW, LY, EK, EY, HA, and TP to move to T7...where B6 might also do the ground handling.

What might also be desired is a proper terminal by Building 213 (where the Tower Air terminal was) that could serve as an LCC terminal (I don't consider B6 to be one, but rather one of 3 major regionals in the USA).

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:06 pm
by jfklganyc
Terminal 1 opened in 1994.

It is a goner.

TOGA is building a massive new terminal on the Terminal 1-3 site that connects to existing Terminal 4

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:03 pm
by Bradin
The entire airport needs to be rebuild.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:05 pm
by EA CO AS
jfklganyc wrote:
Terminal 5 6 and 7will become one large terminal


Hopefully, operated by Alaska Air Group's wholly-owned subsidiary companies, Alaska Airlines, jetBlue Airways, and Hawaiian Airlines. :stirthepot:

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:22 pm
by LAXLHR
jfklganyc wrote:
Terminal 1 opened in 1994.

It is a goner.

TOGA is building a massive new terminal on the Terminal 1-3 site that connects to existing Terminal 4


Hmmm I believe the current T1 opened in 1998

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:11 pm
by cranberrysaus
I wonder if JFK will ever get away from the idea of airline-centric terminals.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:12 pm
by rbavfan
American 767 wrote:
With all due respect to you, this is how I see JFK in the future:

-First of all, there is no more Terminal 6.

-Terminal 5 is where TWA used to be, where JetBlue is now and where the TWA hotel will open soon.

-I see Terminal 1 becoming the Star Allinace Terminal, it would host all the Star airlines flying to JFK: Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, ANA, Brussels Airlines, Turkish, Air China and Singapore. I don't see United coming back to JFK.

-Terminal 2: demolished. They demolished Terminal 3 which was an iconic building, so I don't see why Terminal 2 wouldn't be demolished.

-Terminal 4 could be extended to where Terminal 3 used to be and it will be De;ta's terminal both domestic and Interational, as well as all other Sky Team airlines and Delta's codeshare partners that fly to JFK: Air France, Aeroflot, Alitalia, KLM, Virgin Atlantic and Westjet.
-The other side of Terminal 4 would host some international airlines not belonging to alliances: Emirates, El Al, Etihad, Qatar, Aerolineas Argentinas...just to name a few.

-Terminal 5 would still be JetlBlue's fortress but would also host Aer Lingus, and maybe Icelandair.

-Terminal 7: demolished. All One World airlines will more to Terminal 8 and non One World airlines will go to other terminals. For example, ANA to Terminal 1 as mentioned, Icelandair to either Terminal 5 or 4.

-Terminal 8: One World. American isn't going to make of JFK a mega hub as discussed intensively in other threads so there will be enough room for other One World airlines. British Airways has already made plans to move to Terminal 8 in 2022. JAL could leave Terminal 1, although I don't think they have plans to do so, and go to Terminal 8. So in other words, if JAL ever vacates Terminal 1 they would go to Terminal 8.


You realize:
1:Terminal One Group, which is a consortium comprised of Lufthansa, Air France, Japan Airlines, and Korea Air Lines wil rebuild in T1/2 & part of T3 space with a connector to T4.
2: Concourse A at T4 will be extended for Delta
3: jetBlue will have terminal 5 & space from 6 & 7 to expand.
4: T8 will be finished and most OneWorld carriers will move there.

It's already a done deal.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:31 pm
by flyinghippo
American 767 wrote:
With all due respect to you, this is how I see JFK in the future:

-First of all, there is no more Terminal 6.

-Terminal 5 is where TWA used to be, where JetBlue is now and where the TWA hotel will open soon.

-I see Terminal 1 becoming the Star Allinace Terminal, it would host all the Star airlines flying to JFK: Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, ANA, Brussels Airlines, Turkish, Air China and Singapore. I don't see United coming back to JFK.

-Terminal 2: demolished. They demolished Terminal 3 which was an iconic building, so I don't see why Terminal 2 wouldn't be demolished.

-Terminal 4 could be extended to where Terminal 3 used to be and it will be De;ta's terminal both domestic and Interational, as well as all other Sky Team airlines and Delta's codeshare partners that fly to JFK: Air France, Aeroflot, Alitalia, KLM, Virgin Atlantic and Westjet.
-The other side of Terminal 4 would host some international airlines not belonging to alliances: Emirates, El Al, Etihad, Qatar, Aerolineas Argentinas...just to name a few.

-Terminal 5 would still be JetBlue's fortress but would also host Aer Lingus, and maybe Icelandair.

-Terminal 7: demolished. All One World airlines will move to Terminal 8 and non One World airlines will go to other terminals. For example, ANA to Terminal 1 as mentioned, Icelandair to either Terminal 5 or 4.

-Terminal 8: One World. American isn't going to make of JFK a mega hub as discussed intensively in other threads so there will be enough room for other One World airlines. British Airways has already made plans to move to Terminal 8 in 2022. JAL could leave Terminal 1, although I don't think they have plans to do so, and go to Terminal 8. So in other words, if JAL ever vacates Terminal 1 they would go to Terminal 8.


FYI - The current plan is to have Terminal 1 rebuild and expand to the areas of T1, T2 and T3 area, with a connector to T4, forming a mega terminal for Star and SkyTeam (I see AF, KE and AZ stay in T1, maybe occupy the gates that will be closest to T4 for easy connection to DL at T4) Wondering if T4 have enough capacity to take on the loss of T2, maybe yes if EK and LX leaving T4..?

T5 will expand to the areas of T6 and T7, creating another mega terminal. EK will move there so there will be A380 gates

AA will occupy T8 with the rest of OW airlines. My question is will JL move there from T1 since they're a part owner of T1, and will T8 be able to handle all these flights?

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:23 pm
by rbavfan
EA CO AS wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Terminal 5 6 and 7will become one large terminal


Hopefully, operated by Alaska Air Group's wholly-owned subsidiary companies, Alaska Airlines, jetBlue Airways, and Hawaiian Airlines. :stirthepot:


HAHAHA Can we say lots of Hawaii-mainland routes to be dropped.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:27 pm
by rbavfan
cpl22586 wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Following my previous post:

So there would be 4 terminals, under that plan: Terminal 1, 4, 5 and 8. Eventually they will be renamed as A, B, C and D respectively. So in summary: Terminal A Star, Terminal B, Delta, Sky Team and others, Terminal C JetBlue and Terminal D One World. The Air Train would still be there, serving these four terminals and go to either Jamaica or Far Rockaway, as it currently does. This is how I see JFK in 2030.



I don't see them renaming the terminals A B C D. Throughout JetBlue the JFK terminal is known as T5 and I just don't see that changing. Also the future renderings have the JetBlue expansion going by T6.
I'm curious to see what the future for the air train holds. A connection to Far Rockaway would be cool.


They would be more inclined to run along Atlantic Ave. cross the east river to Manhattan would make more sense.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:32 pm
by Aisak
rbavfan wrote:
1:Terminal One Group, which is a consortium comprised of Lufthansa, Air France, Japan Airlines, and Korea Air Lines wil rebuild in T1/2 & part of T3 space with a connector to T4.

Please let me quote you on this to help motivate my reasoning for this where airlines should be madness (why people keep kicking JL out of owned T1?)

T1 owners (TOGA) will develop a mega terminal T123 connected to the current Delta Terminal 4.

There is no reason for JL *owner* to move from an owned space to get a lease from AA when T8 might not have the desire space (JL lounges)
JL could just use the western side of the building, the closest one to T8 in case anyone gets a connection onto AA precisely at JFK, where AA themselves prefer not to run connections there.

The central T123 (remember, owned by LH) can house LH group operations. LH, OS, LX, SN, EW (probably LOT due to Miles & More) and of course any other Star carrier willing to share the extensive LH facilities and services that they are going to set there. If any of them should want to search for any other 3rd party that’s ok as long at it suits their business plan.

And the eastern side of T123 (remember, also owned by AF and KE) that it’s going to be connected to T4 (Delta) will house KE and AF (and probably KLM) and all other Skyteam airlines willing to share facilities with AF/KE at T123 instead of DL at T4. Or elsewhere for that matter.

cranberrysaus wrote:
I wonder if JFK will ever get away from the idea of airline-centric terminals.

When the US airports ever get rid of their gate-centric operation

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:21 pm
by rbavfan
Aisak wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
1:Terminal One Group, which is a consortium comprised of Lufthansa, Air France, Japan Airlines, and Korea Air Lines wil rebuild in T1/2 & part of T3 space with a connector to T4.

Please let me quote you on this to help motivate my reasoning for this where airlines should be madness (why people keep kicking JL out of owned T1?)

T1 owners (TOGA) will develop a mega terminal T123 connected to the current Delta Terminal 4.

There is no reason for JL *owner* to move from an owned space to get a lease from AA when T8 might not have the desire space (JL lounges)
JL could just use the western side of the building, the closest one to T8 in case anyone gets a connection onto AA precisely at JFK, where AA themselves prefer not to run connections there.

The central T123 (remember, owned by LH) can house LH group operations. LH, OS, LX, SN, EW (probably LOT due to Miles & More) and of course any other Star carrier willing to share the extensive LH facilities and services that they are going to set there. If any of them should want to search for any other 3rd party that’s ok as long at it suits their business plan.

And the eastern side of T123 (remember, also owned by AF and KE) that it’s going to be connected to T4 (Delta) will house KE and AF (and probably KLM) and all other Skyteam airlines willing to share facilities with AF/KE at T123 instead of DL at T4. Or elsewhere for that matter.

cranberrysaus wrote:
I wonder if JFK will ever get away from the idea of airline-centric terminals.

When the US airports ever get rid of their gate-centric operation


If you read what you quoted. I noted JAL was part of the consortium. ie they will stay in T1. I never said JAL was moving. So no you don't need to correct me by saying what I said. If you had read my post you would have noticed I also said most of the One World carriers would move to T8. I never said all would.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:25 pm
by Kilopond
Aisak wrote:
[...]And the eastern side of T123 (remember, also owned by AF and KE) that it’s going to be connected to T4 (Delta) will house KE and AF (and probably KLM) and all other Skyteam airlines willing to share facilities with AF/KE at T123 instead of DL at T4.[...]


I share your viewpoints. But keep in mind that the master of T4 is NOT Delta Air Lines but the Schiphol Group. That`s why I think they intentionally plan to create some sort of an L-shaped T1/2/3/4 super structure. This way there would be enough flexibility to allocate all the Sky Team and Star Alliance carriers at that side of JFK according to the actual needs.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:31 pm
by Aisak
rbavfan wrote:
If you read what you quoted. I noted JAL was part of the consortium. ie they will stay in T1. I never said JAL was moving. So no you don't need to correct me by saying what I said. If you had read my post you would have noticed I also said most of the One World carriers would move to T8. I never said all would.

Of course I didn’t mean to correct you. I’m 100% with you. That’s why I said “please let me quote you to help me”.
Sorry if my writing let you think otherwise

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:37 pm
by rbavfan
Aisak wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
If you read what you quoted. I noted JAL was part of the consortium. ie they will stay in T1. I never said JAL was moving. So no you don't need to correct me by saying what I said. If you had read my post you would have noticed I also said most of the One World carriers would move to T8. I never said all would.

Of course I didn’t mean to correct you. I’m 100% with you. That’s why I said “please let me quote you to help me”.
Sorry if my writing let you think otherwise


Ok sorry miss read that

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:11 pm
by questions

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:49 am
by jfklganyc
LAXLHR wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Terminal 1 opened in 1994.

It is a goner.

TOGA is building a massive new terminal on the Terminal 1-3 site that connects to existing Terminal 4


Hmmm I believe the current T1 opened in 1998



You are correct. Announced and started in 94, opened in 98.

My apologies

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:53 am
by flyinghippo
Aisak wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
1:Terminal One Group, which is a consortium comprised of Lufthansa, Air France, Japan Airlines, and Korea Air Lines wil rebuild in T1/2 & part of T3 space with a connector to T4.

Please let me quote you on this to help motivate my reasoning for this where airlines should be madness (why people keep kicking JL out of owned T1?)

T1 owners (TOGA) will develop a mega terminal T123 connected to the current Delta Terminal 4.

There is no reason for JL *owner* to move from an owned space to get a lease from AA when T8 might not have the desire space (JL lounges)
JL could just use the western side of the building, the closest one to T8 in case anyone gets a connection onto AA precisely at JFK, where AA themselves prefer not to run connections there.

The central T123 (remember, owned by LH) can house LH group operations. LH, OS, LX, SN, EW (probably LOT due to Miles & More) and of course any other Star carrier willing to share the extensive LH facilities and services that they are going to set there. If any of them should want to search for any other 3rd party that’s ok as long at it suits their business plan.


If the numbers ($$$) work out, JL could choose to lease their space in T1 and lease T8 IF they want a good connection experience at JFK. Otherwise they would still need to take the air train from T1 to T8 (and vice versa)

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:56 pm
by Aisak
flyinghippo wrote:
If the numbers ($$$) work out, JL could choose to lease their space in T1 and lease T8 IF they want a good connection experience at JFK. Otherwise they would still need to take the air train from T1 to T8 (and vice versa)


Again, It puzzles me how people keep insisting on JL. AA is transforming JFK into an O/D station. AA don't want connections at JFK, Why would JL have to move to T8 to ease connections from AA when there are several other airports in the US where passengers can connect.

How many (and which) airports only served by AA from JFK see those outrageous numbers of passengers willing to connect onto JL 11:40 departure to NRT and 13:25 departure to NHD?

They would have to withdraw their own space, which they can model and customize quite easier being a co-owner than just being AA's tennant.

They'll have to lease check-in space, Fast-track security lane usage, gate use.... They might have to pay TOGA for those "perks" at T1, but 25% of the expenses to TOGA are coming back as revenues from TOGA. And again, i'm sure they'll have more priority than any other regular tennants at T1. They might just want to build a lounge (wasn't there one?) as they are now contracting the use of LH lounge.


Now let's take a setp further and talk about some other co-onwers of T1: AF and KE. Even though they are also in Skyteam, and form a JV with Delta, most people insist on JL and forget about these two.

ICN flights are quite similar to the TYO flights on JL. Only operated by KE with a DL code on them. And I keep reading on these forums how great DL is out of JFK compared to AA. Why insisting on JL and not KE at the same time?
I doubt the distance from T1 to T8 is so much greater than the distance from T1 to T4.

And then Air France with 4xCDG and 1xORY vs. the Delta 1xCDG and the seasonal 1xLYS. Why does Air France not leave T1 and goes to T4 with Delta?
-if talking about connecting passengers, I'm sure there will be more passengers on those 5 Air France flights than on the 2 JALs
-if talking about connection options, i'm sure there are greater options to connect coming from Paris to all the destinations South and West of JFK on DL, than all the destinations South or East of JFK on AA. I just point these directions to avoid backtracking. If anyone wants to look at a greater picture....
-if taking about passengers showing up at the wrong terminal because of codesharing, AF and DL have a mix of flights/codeshares, while JL is the only one operating the Tokio flights (also valid for KE on ICN). Also true for cancelations, disruptions, change of times...

So, why insist on JAL moving to T8, while not bringing up KE (practically the same case) or AF... Just beyond me.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:10 pm
by FSDan
Aisak wrote:
So, why insist on JAL moving to T8, while not bringing up KE (practically the same case) or AF... Just beyond me.


Probably because T1 and T4 will be connected after all the construction is done.

AA has said they want to get all their partners under one roof. We'll see if they're able to convince JAL that there's a benefit to that.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:13 pm
by ArchGuy1
I do hope that the new terminals are architecturally distinctive like the ones seen at JFK Airport in the 1969's and 1970's.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:32 pm
by HP69
That is unlikely given the increase in cost of construction in the last 50 years.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:35 pm
by ArchGuy1
HP69 wrote:
That is unlikely given the increase in cost of construction in the last 50 years.

Denver managed to do an architecturally distinctive design and it was built in 1995.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:41 pm
by questions
Has a master plan and design been finalized?

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:07 am
by HP69
ArchGuy1 wrote:
HP69 wrote:
That is unlikely given the increase in cost of construction in the last 50 years.

Denver managed to do an architecturally distinctive design and it was built in 1995.


Good point.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:25 am
by blacksoviet
The alliances don't need to be consolidated into the same terminals. The Airtrain connects all of the terminals. I don't think Terminal 1 should be demolished. It is a nice terminal and it is only 21 years old. A new Terminal 2 should be built on the Terminals 2/3 site allowing dual taxiways on both sides of the terminal. This will allow for faster operations at Terminal 1. Everybody will be happier.

Eventually, Delta is going to pay to expand Concourse A at Terminal 4. This will allow Delta to take over every gate at Concourse B. Then they will be ready to demolish Terminal 2.

Either Terminal 1 or Terminal 2 needs to be demolished because they are too close together. There is only one taxiway in the alley. This causes delays. Terminal 1 is more modern and most of the gates are widebody gates. Terminal 2 only has three widebody gates and was built in 1962. It also needs to be demolished if a larger terminal is ever going to be built in that area.

Terminal 1 is kind of nudged into a corner and could compliment the new mega terminals well. It is out of the way.

Terminal 2 is not capable of handling international arrivals. It is 57 years old. As much as I appreciate the style of the era, it is time for Terminal 2 to go. I think Delta wants to delay this as long as possible because they will be paying to relocate airlines from T4B to T4A.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:37 am
by blacksoviet
I think Terminal 7 will remain for at least another ten years. Terminal 8 needs to be expanded and part of Terminal 6 will need to be built before Terminal 7 can be demolished. I think Terminal 7 will be about 60 years old by the time it is demolished.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:39 am
by ArchGuy1
blacksoviet wrote:
I think Terminal 7 will remain for at least another ten years. Terminal 8 needs to be expanded and part of Terminal 6 will need to be built before Terminal 7 can be demolished. I think Terminal 7 will be about 60 years old by the time it is demolished.

Is there anything special about Terminal 7 like there is for the TWA Terminal.

Re: JFK terminals 2027

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:13 am
by blacksoviet
ArchGuy1 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
I think Terminal 7 will remain for at least another ten years. Terminal 8 needs to be expanded and part of Terminal 6 will need to be built before Terminal 7 can be demolished. I think Terminal 7 will be about 60 years old by the time it is demolished.

Is there anything special about Terminal 7 like there is for the TWA Terminal.

Terminal 7 is the last remaining JFK terminal of the 1970s era. It has three security checkpoints. I have heard that lines can get long when multiple 747s and 77Ws are preparing for departure. I do not know if this problem can be fixed with renovations or if the terminal simply needs to be demolished.

I personally would like to see it stay. I think it is a much better design than the Worldport or the Sundrome.