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mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:51 pm

Stitch wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
There can actually be a requirement from tax authorities or accounting standards, that wares have to left your premises to book them as delivered.


True, but that doesn't appear to be the case with Airbus and Boeing as both have made "contractual deliveries" in a certain monthly or annual period and recorded as such for said period without the product actually leaving them premises until the following month or year.

There is also the case where we have seen frames flown into International airspace over the oceans to meet certain regulatory requirements for delivery, but these were flown all the way to Qatar rather than just out over the Pacific so that does not seem to be the case here.


At Airbus the policy has newly changed as it seems, A350 leave TLS and are parked elsewhere.
 
Lewton
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:52 pm

Rumor (Reuters) has it that Airbus delivered 863 aircraft in the end.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1Z01Q8
From Hamburg with love.
 
JonesNL
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:32 am

Lewton wrote:
Rumor (Reuters) has it that Airbus delivered 863 aircraft in the end.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1Z01Q8


What was the original goal for 2019?
 
boerje
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:38 am

JonesNL wrote:
Lewton wrote:
Rumor (Reuters) has it that Airbus delivered 863 aircraft in the end.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1Z01Q8


What was the original goal for 2019?


"Airbus cut its 2019 delivery target to roughly 860 aircraft from a previous forecast of 880 to 890 jets for the year"

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/airbus-cuts-2019-delivery-target-as-profit-edges-up-2019-10-30
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:58 am

Image

25 A220-100
16 A220-300
88 A320 family ceo
449 A320 family neo
6 A330-200
5 A330-300
34 A330-900
77 A350-900
19 A350-1000
6 A380
725 jets delivered January through November 2019

It still seems like a heck of a lot of deliveries in December to make it to 863 for the year total.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:52 am

PacoMartin wrote:
It still seems like a heck of a lot of deliveries in December to make it to 863 for the year total.


You like numbers - look how many they deliver every December. It’s just a few more than they managed to deliver in December 2018. I’m not sure why you find it quite so unbelievable?
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PacoMartin
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:34 am

scbriml wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
It still seems like a heck of a lot of deliveries in December to make it to 863 for the year total.


You like numbers - look how many they deliver every December. It’s just a few more than they managed to deliver in December 2018. I’m not sure why you find it quite so unbelievable?


I don't see a place where you can download a database of orders or deliveries at Airbus's web site (similar to Boeing).

For Boeing they delivered 102 jets in December 2018. Composed of
51 MAX
18 Next Generation
17 Dreamliners
11 B767 freighters and tanker
5 B777 (only one passenger)

An average month for Boeing for the first 11 months of 2018 was 64 deliveries, so 102 is a lot of deliveries for December
An average month for Airbus for the first 11 months of 2019 was 66 deliveries, so 138 is a lot of deliveries for December.

I guess it's not impossible but it seems high to me.
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:18 pm

This is the best source for Airbus order and delivery figures

https://www.airbus.com/content/dam/corp ... craft.xlsx
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:39 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:
This is the best source for Airbus order and delivery figures

https://www.airbus.com/content/dam/corp ... craft.xlsx

This is the page on the Airbus website where you can download the Excel file which is linked in the post above,

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

All the information is in the Excel file which is updated every month, you have to look in all the different tabs to find the info. It could be difficult to find what you want if you are not used to using Excel. And it doesn't give any back info on historical deliveries, you can only see the ones from this year.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:22 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
An average month for Boeing for the first 11 months of 2018 was 64 deliveries, so 102 is a lot of deliveries for December
An average month for Airbus for the first 11 months of 2019 was 66 deliveries, so 138 is a lot of deliveries for December.

I guess it's not impossible but it seems high to me.


It is high, but certainly possible and believable.

Airbus December deliveries for last few years:
2019 - 138 (unconfirmed = 15.9% of year's deliveries)
2018 - 127 (15.9%)
2017 - 127 (17.7%)
2016 - 111 (16.1%)
2015 - 79 (12.4%)
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There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:36 am

scbriml wrote:
Airbus December deliveries for last few years:
2019 - 138 (unconfirmed = 15.9% of year's deliveries)
2018 - 127 (15.9%)
2017 - 127 (17.7%)
2016 - 111 (16.1%)
2015 - 79 (12.4%)


Boeing has a place where you can download a database of orders and deliveries
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

Do you know where you can get one for Airbus?
 
zionite
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:14 am

PacoMartin wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Airbus December deliveries for last few years:
2019 - 138 (unconfirmed = 15.9% of year's deliveries)
2018 - 127 (15.9%)
2017 - 127 (17.7%)
2016 - 111 (16.1%)
2015 - 79 (12.4%)


Boeing has a place where you can download a database of orders and deliveries
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

Do you know where you can get one for Airbus?


https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... .html#file

They post monthly excel files. December 2019 file is not yet uploaded.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:32 am

zionite wrote:
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html#file

They post monthly excel files. December 2019 file is not yet uploaded.

That website shows statistics on which customers purchased which jets, but it has no timeline information. The above post clearly had timeline information for the four years previously.

The year 2001 was the first year the A321 began to out deliver rivals at Boeing
49 A321 deliveries, vs 45 B757s, vs 21 737-900
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:24 am

As I already mentioned ,Airbus does not list any historical delivery information on their website and spreadsheet.

The best way to find historical deliveries might be a search here on Anet for older production and delivery threads. It's also very possible that scbriml downloaded all the previous December spreadsheets so he has all the information on his HD.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:33 am

PacoMartin wrote:
zionite wrote:
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html#file

They post monthly excel files. December 2019 file is not yet uploaded.

That website shows statistics on which customers purchased which jets, but it has no timeline information. The above post clearly had timeline information for the four years previously.

The year 2001 was the first year the A321 began to out deliver rivals at Boeing
49 A321 deliveries, vs 45 B757s, vs 21 737-900


The information is there, just follow the links for previous years at the bottom of the page. The December spreadsheet (which contains all the orders & deliveries for the whole year) can be downloaded.
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There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:20 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
This is the best source for Airbus order and delivery figures

https://www.airbus.com/content/dam/corp ... craft.xlsx

This is the page on the Airbus website where you can download the Excel file which is linked in the post above,

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

All the information is in the Excel file which is updated every month, you have to look in all the different tabs to find the info. It could be difficult to find what you want if you are not used to using Excel. And it doesn't give any back info on historical deliveries, you can only see the ones from this year.


There is actually a tap for historical deliveries, the first tap.

edit: sorry historical orders. Historical deliveries you find usually in the much Wikipedia.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:50 pm

scbriml wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
zionite wrote:
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html#file

They post monthly excel files. December 2019 file is not yet uploaded.

That website shows statistics on which customers purchased which jets, but it has no timeline information. The above post clearly had timeline information for the four years previously.

The year 2001 was the first year the A321 began to out deliver rivals at Boeing
49 A321 deliveries, vs 45 B757s, vs 21 737-900


The information is there, just follow the links for previous years at the bottom of the page. The December spreadsheet (which contains all the orders & deliveries for the whole year) can be downloaded.

I never realized that the files could still be downloaded in the every end of the year press release.

Obviously you have to download all of them to have a full overview of the individual deliveries per year, which are much more easy to find on Boeing's website. But it does give you loads of information that you can't really find anywhere else on the internet. Like if you want to find out all the orders in a specific year, not just the ones that weren't cancelled later on like you can find on Boeing's website.

Speaking of the end of the year press events and press releases, do we know when Airbus and Boeing are doing theirs?

If Boeing sticks to their regular schedule it will be on January 14th (2nd Tuesday of the month). Airbus doesn't really have a fixed day in the month for these updates, so it could be on any day in the coming 2 weeks.
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:56 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
That website shows statistics on which customers purchased which jets, but it has no timeline information. The above post clearly had timeline information for the four years previously.

The year 2001 was the first year the A321 began to out deliver rivals at Boeing
49 A321 deliveries, vs 45 B757s, vs 21 737-900


The information is there, just follow the links for previous years at the bottom of the page. The December spreadsheet (which contains all the orders & deliveries for the whole year) can be downloaded.

I never realized that the files could still be downloaded in the every end of the year press release.

Obviously you have to download all of them to have a full overview of the individual deliveries per year, which are much more easy to find on Boeing's website. But it does give you loads of information that you can't really find anywhere else on the internet. Like if you want to find out all the orders in a specific year, not just the ones that weren't cancelled later on like you can find on Boeing's website.

Speaking of the end of the year press events and press releases, do we know when Airbus and Boeing are doing theirs?

If Boeing sticks to their regular schedule it will be on January 14th (2nd Tuesday of the month). Airbus doesn't really have a fixed day in the month for these updates, so it could be on any day in the coming 2 weeks.

In last 10 years, Airbus has official announced their numbers of the prior year between 09-Jan earliest to 17-Jan latest.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:08 pm

T4thH wrote:
In last 10 years, Airbus has official announced their numbers of the prior year between 09-Jan earliest to 17-Jan latest.


And now that Boeing has moved from a weekly to monthly reporting structure, at least on their O&D page, we can finally stop the nonsense of Airbus' "fifth quarter" since they might actually report 2019 numbers before Boeing does.
 
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BobMUC
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:50 pm

Airbus has confirmed 863 deliveries for 2019!

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7Jh0K9IvfH ... 4qfv8zql1q
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:19 pm

Official Airbus news Dec-2019
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html

863 aircraft deliveries, 8 percent higher than in 2018
1,131 new aircraft orders, 768 net orders, backlog stands at 7,482 aircraft

n 2019, deliveries comprised:

A220 Family: 48 v 20 in 2018 (since the A220 became part of the Airbus Family: 1 July 2018)

A320 Family: 642 v 626 in 2018. Of these, 551 were NEO Family v 386 in 2018

A330 Family: 53 v 49 in 2018. Of these, 41 were NEO Family v 3 in 2018

A350 XWB Family: 112 v 93 in 2018. Of these, 25 were A350-1000 v 14 in 2018

A380: 8 v 12 in 2018

Airbus had a strong year of sales with a total of 1,131 new orders.

Net orders reached 768, compared to 747 in 2018, underlining customer endorsements in all market segments and taking Airbus’ overall historical cumulative net orders over the 20,000 mark.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:26 pm

Airbus 2019 total deliveries

2019 (2018)

A220: 48 (20)

A220-100: 25 (4)
A220-300: 23 (16)

A320-series: 642 (626)
A319: 4 (8)
A319neo: 2 (0)
A320: 49 (133)
A320neo: 381 (284)
A321: 38 (99)
A321neo: 168 (102)

A330: 53 (49)
A330-200: 7 (14)
A330-300: 5 (32)
A330-900: 41 (3)

A350: 112 (93)
A350-900: 87 (79)
A350-1000: 25 (14)

A380:8 (12)



Total: 863 (800)
 
JonesNL
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:58 pm

The deliveries of the A220 grew with almost 150%. That’s quite an achievement.
 
majano
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:09 pm

JonesNL wrote:
The deliveries of the A220 grew with almost 150%. That’s quite an achievement.

The 2018 and 2019 deliveries are not necessarily a like for like comparison. The 2018 number counts from the date when Airbus acquired their 50.01% stake in CSLAP, short for C Series Aircraft Limited Partnership. The effective date of the transaction was 1 July 2018.

I am sure there was growth overall, but perhaps not as high as 150%.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:14 pm

majano wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
The deliveries of the A220 grew with almost 150%. That’s quite an achievement.

The 2018 and 2019 deliveries are not necessarily a like for like comparison. The 2018 number counts from the date when Airbus acquired their 50.01% stake in CSLAP, short for C Series Aircraft Limited Partnership. The effective date of the transaction was 1 July 2018.

I am sure there was growth overall, but perhaps not as high as 150%.

Yes, there were 33 total C series/A220 deliveries in FY2018. 20 in the second half of the year after Airbus acquired the program and started counting the deliveries in their total.
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:51 pm

Boeing 2019 deliveries according to https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2020-01-14 ... Deliveries :

Image
Good moaning!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:10 pm

Summaries for 2019:

Image

Obviously Boeing's numbers were massively impacted by the MAX grounding.

Of note - a record number of deliveries for Airbus (8% up on 2018) and their 17th consecutive year of production increase.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
astuteman
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:28 pm

scbriml wrote:
Summaries for 2019:

Image

Obviously Boeing's numbers were massively impacted by the MAX grounding.

Of note - a record number of deliveries for Airbus (8% up on 2018) and their 17th consecutive year of production increase.


I'm well impressed by the number of 787's delivered in December, and in the year as a whole. Clearly a record for a single widebody type.
Which I suspect will stand for a very long time.

Rgds
 
starrion
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:04 pm

astuteman wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Summaries for 2019:

Image

Obviously Boeing's numbers were massively impacted by the MAX grounding.

Of note - a record number of deliveries for Airbus (8% up on 2018) and their 17th consecutive year of production increase.


I'm well impressed by the number of 787's delivered in December, and in the year as a whole. Clearly a record for a single widebody type.
Which I suspect will stand for a very long time.

Rgds

Yeah, I remember thinking that Boeing would never run out of 787 backlog when they had 50 planes on property and a thousand orders to fill.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
majano
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:14 pm

astuteman wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Summaries for 2019:

Image

Obviously Boeing's numbers were massively impacted by the MAX grounding.

Of note - a record number of deliveries for Airbus (8% up on 2018) and their 17th consecutive year of production increase.


I'm well impressed by the number of 787's delivered in December, and in the year as a whole. Clearly a record for a single widebody type.
Which I suspect will stand for a very long time.

Rgds

45 deliveries in a single month for a widebody type is out of this world!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:21 pm

astuteman wrote:
I'm well impressed by the number of 787's delivered in December, and in the year as a whole.


I had remarked during the year that 787 deliveries were a way below matching the production rate. The seven QR 789 deliveries were odd to say the least (but not suggesting anything untoward). They'd been sat at Everett for quite some time, then all fly off to Doha, only to fly back to Victorville the next day 'en convoy'. I understand the interiors are not finished.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
tomcat
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:10 pm

scbriml wrote:
Summaries for 2019:

Image

Obviously Boeing's numbers were massively impacted by the MAX grounding.

Of note - a record number of deliveries for Airbus (8% up on 2018) and their 17th consecutive year of production increase.


Where could I find the market share of Rolls Royce in the 787 and 767 deliveries? With Airbus having delivered a total of 165 A330s and A350s, RR is getting closer to 50% market share of the widebody market and it should keep going up in the short term given the expected widebody deliveries in 2020.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:23 pm

tomcat wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Summaries for 2019:

Image

Obviously Boeing's numbers were massively impacted by the MAX grounding.

Of note - a record number of deliveries for Airbus (8% up on 2018) and their 17th consecutive year of production increase.


Where could I find the market share of Rolls Royce in the 787 and 767 deliveries? With Airbus having delivered a total of 165 A330s and A350s, RR is getting closer to 50% market share of the widebody market and it should keep going up in the short term given the expected widebody deliveries in 2020.

You can find that info on Boeing’s website. Make a custom report showing all deliveries (all dates or current year, whatever you are interested in), for all customers for the model of interest. Boeing includes the engine in delivery data, so export the spreadsheet to excel and pull the data. I can’t do it right now because on phone.

For the 767 RR market share of current deliveries is 0%. RR was never a popular engine on the 767, with BA, QF, and a couple other airlines being the only operators.
 
sciing
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:54 pm

majano wrote:
astuteman wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Summaries for 2019:

Image

Obviously Boeing's numbers were massively impacted by the MAX grounding.

Of note - a record number of deliveries for Airbus (8% up on 2018) and their 17th consecutive year of production increase.


I'm well impressed by the number of 787's delivered in December, and in the year as a whole. Clearly a record for a single widebody type.
Which I suspect will stand for a very long time.

Rgds

45 deliveries in a single month for a widebody type is out of this world!

45 for the whole quarter, 21 for the month.
 
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reidar76
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:02 pm

If we look at passenger widebody aircraft*, Boeing outdelivered Airbus, but not by much.

Boeing delivered:
787-8: 10
787-9: 114
787-10: 34
777-200LR: 1
777-300ER: 19
= 178 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

Airbus delivered:
A330-200/800: 7
A330-300/900: 46
A350-900: 87
A350-1000: 25
A380-800: 8
= 173 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

* excluding military tankers (767-2C, A330 MRTT) and cargo aircraft (A330F, A330-700L (BelugaXL), 7X7F)

If we divide the widebody market into to two categories; widebodies below 300 seats (A330 and 787-8/9) and widebodies with more than 300 seats (A350, A380, 787-10, 777).

Market share:
Below 300 seats**: Boeing 70%, Airbus 30%
Above 300 seats**: Boeing 31%, Airbus 69%

** in a standard 2/3-class configuration.
 
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reidar76
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:13 pm

Passenger widebody* orders in 2019:

Boeing net orders:
787: 74
777: -21
= 53 pax aircraft orders in 2019

Airbus net orders:
A330: 90
A350: 32
= 122 pax aircraft orders in 2019

* excluding military tankers (767-2C, A330 MRTT) and cargo aircraft (A330F, A330-700L (BelugaXL), 7X7F)

Market share: widebody pax aircraft net orders: Boeing: 30%, Airbus 70%.
Last edited by reidar76 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tomcat
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:13 pm

Polot wrote:
tomcat wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Summaries for 2019:

Image

Obviously Boeing's numbers were massively impacted by the MAX grounding.

Of note - a record number of deliveries for Airbus (8% up on 2018) and their 17th consecutive year of production increase.


Where could I find the market share of Rolls Royce in the 787 and 767 deliveries? With Airbus having delivered a total of 165 A330s and A350s, RR is getting closer to 50% market share of the widebody market and it should keep going up in the short term given the expected widebody deliveries in 2020.

You can find that info on Boeing’s website. Make a custom report showing all deliveries (all dates or current year, whatever you are interested in), for all customers for the model of interest. Boeing includes the engine in delivery data, so export the spreadsheet to excel and pull the data. I can’t do it right now because on phone.

For the 767 RR market share of current deliveries is 0%. RR was never a popular engine on the 767, with BA, QF, and a couple other airlines being the only operators.


Thanks.

As far as the 787 is concerned, RR had a 30.4% market share among the 2019 deliveries.

Overall, considering the 426 widebodies delivered in 2019 (from the 767 size all the way to the A380), RR achieved a 51.4% market share. That's impressive and it's a shame that this performance is overshadowed by their continued issues with the Trent-1000.
 
majano
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:11 am

sciing wrote:
majano wrote:
astuteman wrote:

I'm well impressed by the number of 787's delivered in December, and in the year as a whole. Clearly a record for a single widebody type.
Which I suspect will stand for a very long time.

Rgds

45 deliveries in a single month for a widebody type is out of this world!

45 for the whole quarter, 21 for the month.

Thank you for the correction!
 
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enzo011
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:41 am

reidar76 wrote:
If we look at passenger widebody aircraft*, Boeing outdelivered Airbus, but not by much.

Boeing delivered:
787-8: 10
787-9: 114
787-10: 34
777-200LR: 1
777-300ER: 19
= 178 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

Airbus delivered:
A330-200/800: 7
A330-300/900: 46
A350-900: 87
A350-1000: 25
A380-800: 8
= 173 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

* excluding military tankers (767-2C, A330 MRTT) and cargo aircraft (A330F, A330-700L (BelugaXL), 7X7F)

If we divide the widebody market into to two categories; widebodies below 300 seats (A330 and 787-8/9) and widebodies with more than 300 seats (A350, A380, 787-10, 777).

Market share:
Below 300 seats**: Boeing 70%, Airbus 30%
Above 300 seats**: Boeing 31%, Airbus 69%

** in a standard 2/3-class configuration.



Nice breakdown, although I would put the A359 in the below 300 seats category. It doesn't matter either way, the split was 51%-49% to Boeing so you could play with the numbers until you get your desired result of whatever argument you want to make.
 
User avatar
PepeTheFrog
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:47 am

reidar76 wrote:
If we look at passenger widebody aircraft*, Boeing outdelivered Airbus, but not by much.

Boeing delivered:
787-8: 10
787-9: 114
787-10: 34
777-200LR: 1
777-300ER: 19
= 178 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

Airbus delivered:
A330-200/800: 7
A330-300/900: 46
A350-900: 87
A350-1000: 25
A380-800: 8
= 173 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

* excluding military tankers (767-2C, A330 MRTT) and cargo aircraft (A330F, A330-700L (BelugaXL), 7X7F)

If we divide the widebody market into to two categories; widebodies below 300 seats (A330 and 787-8/9) and widebodies with more than 300 seats (A350, A380, 787-10, 777).



It doesn't really matter whether its 49-51 or 50-50 %.

A few years ago the split was rather 20-80 % in favor of Boeing.

A big contrast.
Good moaning!
 
olle
Posts: 2346
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
If we look at passenger widebody aircraft*, Boeing outdelivered Airbus, but not by much.

Boeing delivered:
787-8: 10
787-9: 114
787-10: 34
777-200LR: 1
777-300ER: 19
= 178 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

Airbus delivered:
A330-200/800: 7
A330-300/900: 46
A350-900: 87
A350-1000: 25
A380-800: 8
= 173 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

* excluding military tankers (767-2C, A330 MRTT) and cargo aircraft (A330F, A330-700L (BelugaXL), 7X7F)

If we divide the widebody market into to two categories; widebodies below 300 seats (A330 and 787-8/9) and widebodies with more than 300 seats (A350, A380, 787-10, 777).



It doesn't really matter whether its 49-51 or 50-50 %.

A few years ago the split was rather 20-80 % in favor of Boeing.

A big contrast.


Is this the first year ever that not only Airbus dominates NB by value but is on pair or close in pair on WB?

Until now every year Boeing hss claimed outdelivering Boeing on value. What about 2019?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10700
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:34 pm

olle wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
If we look at passenger widebody aircraft*, Boeing outdelivered Airbus, but not by much.

Boeing delivered:
787-8: 10
787-9: 114
787-10: 34
777-200LR: 1
777-300ER: 19
= 178 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

Airbus delivered:
A330-200/800: 7
A330-300/900: 46
A350-900: 87
A350-1000: 25
A380-800: 8
= 173 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

* excluding military tankers (767-2C, A330 MRTT) and cargo aircraft (A330F, A330-700L (BelugaXL), 7X7F)

If we divide the widebody market into to two categories; widebodies below 300 seats (A330 and 787-8/9) and widebodies with more than 300 seats (A350, A380, 787-10, 777).



It doesn't really matter whether its 49-51 or 50-50 %.

A few years ago the split was rather 20-80 % in favor of Boeing.

A big contrast.


Is this the first year ever that not only Airbus dominates NB by value but is on pair or close in pair on WB?

Until now every year Boeing hss claimed outdelivering Boeing on value. What about 2019?


Boeing still delivered 80 more wide bodies in 2019 than Airbus. Keep in mind the numbers you are quoting are pax aircraft only.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1076
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:40 pm

olle wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
If we look at passenger widebody aircraft*, Boeing outdelivered Airbus, but not by much.

Boeing delivered:
787-8: 10
787-9: 114
787-10: 34
777-200LR: 1
777-300ER: 19
= 178 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

Airbus delivered:
A330-200/800: 7
A330-300/900: 46
A350-900: 87
A350-1000: 25
A380-800: 8
= 173 pax aircraft* delivered in 2019

* excluding military tankers (767-2C, A330 MRTT) and cargo aircraft (A330F, A330-700L (BelugaXL), 7X7F)

If we divide the widebody market into to two categories; widebodies below 300 seats (A330 and 787-8/9) and widebodies with more than 300 seats (A350, A380, 787-10, 777).



It doesn't really matter whether its 49-51 or 50-50 %.

A few years ago the split was rather 20-80 % in favor of Boeing.

A big contrast.


Is this the first year ever that not only Airbus dominates NB by value but is on pair or close in pair on WB?

Until now every year Boeing hss claimed outdelivering Boeing on value. What about 2019?


Interesting numbers for the civil wb passenger marked; especially as Airbus has delivered more of the "higher expensive" A350, as Boeing the B777. So market value shall be higher for the civil passenger wb jets.

Including business, military conversions and especially the freighters, Boeing is still in front, but these are general "older generation" jets, like B767, B737 NG and B777w conversions (with exception of few business B787 conversions).

Seems slowly the hard "European" work in developments and fundamental research programs (like Clean sky I to III) shows results also in the wb market.
Last edited by T4thH on Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
PepeTheFrog
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:40 pm

Polot wrote:
olle wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:

It doesn't really matter whether its 49-51 or 50-50 %.

A few years ago the split was rather 20-80 % in favor of Boeing.

A big contrast.


Is this the first year ever that not only Airbus dominates NB by value but is on pair or close in pair on WB?

Until now every year Boeing hss claimed outdelivering Boeing on value. What about 2019?


Boeing still delivered 80 more wide bodies in 2019 than Airbus. Keep in mind the numbers you are quoting are pax aircraft only.


Well, the discussion was about commercial passenger aircraft.

If we include military 767 aircraft, we might as well include A400M and other military Airbus planes.

For the entire business, Boeing is much bigger of course. But the discussion was focused on pax aircraft.
Good moaning!
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10700
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:47 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
Polot wrote:
olle wrote:

Is this the first year ever that not only Airbus dominates NB by value but is on pair or close in pair on WB?

Until now every year Boeing hss claimed outdelivering Boeing on value. What about 2019?


Boeing still delivered 80 more wide bodies in 2019 than Airbus. Keep in mind the numbers you are quoting are pax aircraft only.


Well, the discussion was about commercial passenger aircraft.

If we include military 767 aircraft, we might as well include A400M and other military Airbus planes.

For the entire business, Boeing is much bigger of course. But the discussion was focused on pax aircraft.

Boeing/Airbus include the P-8/KC-46/A330MRTT as part of their commercial deliveries, as their commercial divisions are building them and delivering them to their military division who finishes outfitting and deliveries to final customer.

The A400M and other military planes, from both Airbus and Boeing, are not built by Airbus Commercial Aircraft (rather Airbus Defense and Space) or Boeing Commercial Aircraft (rather Boeing Defense, Space, & Security).

I was just making sure it was clear to him that the discussion was pax only. In terms of delivery value I don’t know why you would exclude freighters because a Cargo airline’s dollar counts just as much as a pax airline’s.
Last edited by Polot on Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19173
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:48 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
If we include military 767 aircraft, we might as well include A400M and other military Airbus planes.

For the entire business, Boeing is much bigger of course. But the discussion was focused on pax aircraft.


IMHO, there's a clear distinction between a civilian frame converted for military use and a plane built solely for military use. So for me, you have to include P-8s and KC-46s in Boeing's totals, just as A330-based tankers should be included in Airbus's total. A400Ms or (if they were still in production) C-17s wouldn't count since they're not built by Airbus or Boeing's commercial divisions.

While it's fine to compare passenger aircraft, the military conversions and freighters have to count as well.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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reidar76
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:56 pm

T4thH wrote:
olle wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:

It doesn't really matter whether its 49-51 or 50-50 %.

A few years ago the split was rather 20-80 % in favor of Boeing.

A big contrast.


Is this the first year ever that not only Airbus dominates NB by value but is on pair or close in pair on WB?

Until now every year Boeing hss claimed outdelivering Boeing on value. What about 2019?


Interesting numbers for the civil wb passenger marked; especially as Airbus has delivered more of the "higher expensive" A350, as Boeing the B777. So market value shall be higher for the civil passenger wb jets.

Including business, military conversions and especially the freighters, Boeing is still in front, but these are general "older generation" jets, like B767, B737 NG and B777w conversions (with exception of few business B787 conversions).

Seems slowly the hard "European" work in developments and fundamental research programs (like Clean sky I to III) shows results also in the wb market.


2020 might be the first year Airbus will deliver more pax aircraft than Boeing. Boeing is lowering 787 production from 14 to 12/month. It looks likely that Airbus will maintain production at least at 2019 level.
 
RalXWB
Posts: 499
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:26 pm

Airbus delivered more pax aircraft than Boeing in a year before....like in 2019.
 
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SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Deliveries

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:35 am

Please continue your discission here:

Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Thread will be locked.

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