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Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:42 pm
by compensateme
many321 wrote:
dtremit wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
But it’s been a bad marriage after the honeymoon phase and probably about time to break up and move on and split the assets between other regional airports in So-Cal.


It sounds like JetBlue is doing just that. At their press event on Wednesday, they listed their five focus cities as JFK, BOS, FLL, MCO, and "LA Basin"

https://twitter.com/WandrMe/status/1116074377106403329


Talk about dissing LGB :rotfl: It's going to be interesting to see B6's next move in the LA area.


Nothing new here, and definitely not a “diss.” B6 has identified some variation of “the Los Angeles area” for years, at best including “Long Beach” in the description. Long Beach simply makes for poor marketing — while virtually everybody knows where Los Angeles is, a much smaller percentage would be able to identify with Long Beach. Heck, they even stripped the “Long Beach” name from many 405 ramps.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:56 am
by tphuang
many321 wrote:
dtremit wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
But it’s been a bad marriage after the honeymoon phase and probably about time to break up and move on and split the assets between other regional airports in So-Cal.


It sounds like JetBlue is doing just that. At their press event on Wednesday, they listed their five focus cities as JFK, BOS, FLL, MCO, and "LA Basin"

https://twitter.com/WandrMe/status/1116074377106403329


Talk about dissing LGB :rotfl: It's going to be interesting to see B6's next move in the LA area.


They've actually been doing that for a while. LAX now operates as many flight as LGB and is far more profitable and generates far more revenue. B6 really messed up in LA basin by just staking out at LGB for so long.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:30 am
by wnflyguy
Well since the hammer has fallen and looks like WN is taking advantage until September for the used slots. LGB-DEN Will now be daily Instead of Saturday/Sunday only. So that's 4 OAK, 4 SMF , 4 SJC ,3 LAS and 1 DEN. 16 total with 3 daily RON in LGB.
Latest Rumor is HA and DL passing on slots.
So 10 more permanent slots for WN?

Flyguy

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:02 pm
by solracfunk14
I was a LB resident (CSULB alumni here) for years. I used a lot B6 flights to go up north to Seattle, Portland, Vegas and them FLL/MCO to go back to Brazil (homecountry) with Azul.

They really made the airport. Even Azul years ago had a plan to start flying to MCO, FLL, JFK and West Coast. The first two cities went by and they decide to hold back for JFK (was a good move, you can see what happened with O6 to JFK).

I was pretty sure that the West Coast destination would be LAS or LGB. But them the city council decided to not have international flights which put it down the B6 plans to Mexico/Latin America and the Azul ones in the future. The airport is slowing down after the C-17 line closure, and if B6 comes out, I don't see any growing besides few more SW flights and Hawaiian entering.

As former resident, I don't like the City Council at all, after my freshmen year I moved out to Seal Beach, less regulations, cheaper and more calm place.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:05 pm
by tphuang
wnflyguy wrote:
Well since the hammer has fallen and looks like WN is taking advantage until September for the used slots. LGB-DEN Will now be daily Instead of Saturday/Sunday only. So that's 4 OAK, 4 SMF , 4 SJC ,3 LAS and 1 DEN. 16 total with 3 daily RON in LGB.
Latest Rumor is HA and DL passing on slots.
So 10 more permanent slots for WN?

Flyguy

it seemed like those are still just temporary slots and we will have to wait for the permanent slot allocation. As of now, basically nothing has changed outside of a daily LGB-DEN flight, which in its initial run was a huge disaster.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:11 pm
by Bluewho
wnflyguy wrote:
Well since the hammer has fallen and looks like WN is taking advantage until September for the used slots. LGB-DEN Will now be daily Instead of Saturday/Sunday only. So that's 4 OAK, 4 SMF , 4 SJC ,3 LAS and 1 DEN. 16 total with 3 daily RON in LGB.
Latest Rumor is HA and DL passing on slots.
So 10 more permanent slots for WN?

Flyguy



Interesting I thought the airport manager said other airlines couldn’t wait to get these slots. I gues by other airlines they were actually saying 1 airline in particular.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:23 pm
by dc10lover
Might as well have WN grab LGB. They would be best for LGB anyway.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:54 pm
by airportugal310
Bluewho wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well since the hammer has fallen and looks like WN is taking advantage until September for the used slots. LGB-DEN Will now be daily Instead of Saturday/Sunday only. So that's 4 OAK, 4 SMF , 4 SJC ,3 LAS and 1 DEN. 16 total with 3 daily RON in LGB.
Latest Rumor is HA and DL passing on slots.
So 10 more permanent slots for WN?

Flyguy



Interesting I thought the airport manager said other airlines couldn’t wait to get these slots. I gues by other airlines they were actually saying 1 airline in particular.


Kind of signals that the money made from LGB is mostly in intra-California flights and some other fringe stuff and likely not in much else other than existing

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:30 am
by Bluewho
dc10lover wrote:
Might as well have WN grab LGB. They would be best for LGB anyway.



So jetblue should just pack up?
Ok how about SWA just give their Boston gates to jetblue since they haven’t done much with Boston and blue needs more gates.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:33 am
by Bluewho
airportugal310 wrote:
Bluewho wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well since the hammer has fallen and looks like WN is taking advantage until September for the used slots. LGB-DEN Will now be daily Instead of Saturday/Sunday only. So that's 4 OAK, 4 SMF , 4 SJC ,3 LAS and 1 DEN. 16 total with 3 daily RON in LGB.
Latest Rumor is HA and DL passing on slots.
So 10 more permanent slots for WN?

Flyguy



Interesting I thought the airport manager said other airlines couldn’t wait to get these slots. I gues by other airlines they were actually saying 1 airline in particular.


Kind of signals that the money made from LGB is mostly in intra-California flights and some other fringe stuff and likely not in much else other than existing



Actually it just show what this is really all about.
Next thing you know SWA wil have a FIS facilitate built in LGB and the board will be like isn’t this amazing.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:33 am
by slcdeltarumd11
I said this for a while. I only think Delta was interested in Long Beach because JetBlue was. Now that they seem less interested I can't see Delta needing slots. SLC is pretty well covered at this point. They wanted to keep slots away from B6. The cities that WN will serve are no threat to Delta. I would expect Delta to pass unless they see future value ?

Southwest can maybe really make long Beach something with more slots.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:33 am
by OzarkD9S
Bluewho wrote:

dc10lover wrote:
Might as well have WN grab LGB. They would be best for LGB anyway.



So jetblue should just pack up?
Ok how about SWA just give their Boston gates to jetblue since they haven’t done much with Boston and blue needs more gates.


WN isn't giving up anything in BOS when they can just wait for B6 to dwindle away at LGB. BOS for WN is about getting their stronghold market passengers to and from BOS, they don't need a BOS focus city/connection center. See WN @ LGA.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:40 pm
by Super80Fan
They've officially given up 10 slots.

https://www.lbbusinessjournal.com/jetbl ... h-airport/

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:00 pm
by Abeam79
B6 is now making money with its revised schedule in lgb, and they will remain as the carrier with the most slots with over 45% market share. WN on the other hand is losing their shirts on the lgb flying, I don’t know why people think anyone thinks them or anyone would be foaming at the mouth for slots at an airport that is historically low yielding so they can just lose more money. I think wn isn’t rushing for anymore flying especially with the massive losses they are enduring with maintenance emergency, 737max8 issues and hundreds of daily cancellations. They need to focus on how to make up for that and lgb certainly isn’t a trove of revenue to be going after. If they want it, well, they can choke on it as far as their concerned.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:23 pm
by LAXintl
Abeam79 wrote:
B6 is now making money with its revised schedule in lgb, and they will remain as the carrier with the most slots with over 45% market share. WN on the other hand is losing their shirts on the lgb flying, I don’t know why people think anyone thinks them or anyone would be foaming at the mouth for slots at an airport that is historically low yielding so they can just lose more money. I think wn isn’t rushing for anymore flying especially with the massive losses they are enduring with maintenance emergency, 737max8 issues and hundreds of daily cancellations. They need to focus on how to make up for that and lgb certainly isn’t a trove of revenue to be going after. If they want it, well, they can choke on it as far as their concerned.


LGB makes money for WN for the simple fact that WN is the largest airline in California and it makes sense to further densify their network. LGB was a hole in the LA basin that with slots opening was easy to plug in order to provide another consumer option.

Don't focus on segment profitability, especially so early in the stations existence. It's a bigger play by WN, especially with their loss of SNA access in recent years.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:23 pm
by CobaltScar
Bluewho wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Might as well have WN grab LGB. They would be best for LGB anyway.



So jetblue should just pack up?
Ok how about SWA just give their Boston gates to jetblue since they haven’t done much with Boston and blue needs more gates.


Kind of like Alaska did for SWA at LGA and DCA in return for the panye field pullout?

Sounds good to me.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:52 pm
by ScottB
Abeam79 wrote:
WN on the other hand is losing their shirts on the lgb flying, I don’t know why people think anyone thinks them or anyone would be foaming at the mouth for slots at an airport that is historically low yielding so they can just lose more money.


They've already been using most of the slots B6 is giving up -- just on a temporary basis without any guarantee that they'd have the use of those slots had B6 reversed course and added flights back to LGB.

WN has several structural advantages over B6 at LGB, though: They have strong brand recognition in Southern California, they connect LGB with airports where they are already the #1 or #2 carrier, and they offer a robust selection of connections at all the airports they serve from LGB. WN at LGB is a long-term play to build market share in California as well as block competitors from building share in a region which isn't building new airports or runways. While there's room for growth at ONT, most of the region's other airports are at or near capacity (limited by gates, slots, or airfield capacity) and ONT really isn't a viable alternative for many what with the L.A. Basin's notorious traffic. And besides, the lack of limitations at ONT would allow WN to respond to market incursion by a competitor.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:28 pm
by wnflyguy
Abeam79 wrote:
B6 is now making money with its revised schedule in lgb, and they will remain as the carrier with the most slots with over 45% market share. WN on the other hand is losing their shirts on the lgb flying, I don’t know why people think anyone thinks them or anyone would be foaming at the mouth for slots at an airport that is historically low yielding so they can just lose more money. I think wn isn’t rushing for anymore flying especially with the massive losses they are enduring with maintenance emergency, 737max8 issues and hundreds of daily cancellations. They need to focus on how to make up for that and lgb certainly isn’t a trove of revenue to be going after. If they want it, well, they can choke on it as far as their concerned.

At EVERY city in the WN network for 46 years and counting people always say there is no way WN making money at these prices. After 46 years and counting WN still making a profit year after year after year! But you go ahead and keep spinning that fake news.

Flyguy

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:17 pm
by Abeam79
wnflyguy wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
B6 is now making money with its revised schedule in lgb, and they will remain as the carrier with the most slots with over 45% market share. WN on the other hand is losing their shirts on the lgb flying, I don’t know why people think anyone thinks them or anyone would be foaming at the mouth for slots at an airport that is historically low yielding so they can just lose more money. I think wn isn’t rushing for anymore flying especially with the massive losses they are enduring with maintenance emergency, 737max8 issues and hundreds of daily cancellations. They need to focus on how to make up for that and lgb certainly isn’t a trove of revenue to be going after. If they want it, well, they can choke on it as far as their concerned.

At EVERY city in the WN network for 46 years and counting people always say there is no way WN making money at these prices. After 46 years and counting WN still making a profit year after year after year! But you go ahead and keep spinning that fake news.

Flyguy


I was just referring to the Lgb station. Yes wn is very profitable system wide no doubt. But don’t fool yourself when you say “they are profitable at these prices”, they are not the cheapest option these days. Only on certain routes but not overall.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:10 am
by jplatts
OzarkD9S wrote:
Bluewho wrote:
Ok how about SWA just give their Boston gates to jetblue since they haven’t done much with Boston and blue needs more gates.


WN isn't giving up anything in BOS when they can just wait for B6 to dwindle away at LGB. BOS for WN is about getting their stronghold market passengers to and from BOS, they don't need a BOS focus city/connection center. See WN @ LGA.


There is actually more demand for WN service out of BOS than out of ABQ, CLT, CVG, CLE, DTW, SDF, MEM, MSP, OMA, PIT, or SLC. There is more than enough demand for WN to continue serving BOS, and there is enough demand to support at least 26 daily departures out of BOS on WN.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:40 pm
by wnflyguy
Well with nobody else jumping into using the 10 vacancies by B6. WN will now on a temporary basis operate 16 daily flights June-September.
4 OAK,4 SMF, 4 SJC, 3 LAS and 1 DEN.
I believe on October 1,2019 the new permanent awarded slots go into affect.
Who's getting what hasn't officially been announced by LGB airport. Currently the rumors are AA,DL and HA all passed on additional slots.
Flyguy

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:20 pm
by AirFiero
Abeam79 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
B6 is now making money with its revised schedule in lgb, and they will remain as the carrier with the most slots with over 45% market share. WN on the other hand is losing their shirts on the lgb flying, I don’t know why people think anyone thinks them or anyone would be foaming at the mouth for slots at an airport that is historically low yielding so they can just lose more money. I think wn isn’t rushing for anymore flying especially with the massive losses they are enduring with maintenance emergency, 737max8 issues and hundreds of daily cancellations. They need to focus on how to make up for that and lgb certainly isn’t a trove of revenue to be going after. If they want it, well, they can choke on it as far as their concerned.

At EVERY city in the WN network for 46 years and counting people always say there is no way WN making money at these prices. After 46 years and counting WN still making a profit year after year after year! But you go ahead and keep spinning that fake news.

Flyguy


I was just referring to the Lgb station. Yes wn is very profitable system wide no doubt. But don’t fool yourself when you say “they are profitable at these prices”, they are not the cheapest option these days. Only on certain routes but not overall.


I seldom fly commercially, but needed to book a last minute itinerary due to poor forecasted weather. I priced every possible booking including on WN. There was no price advantage. I ended up booking UA because the price was best for reserved seating.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:22 pm
by AirFiero
wnflyguy wrote:
Well with nobody else jumping into using the 10 vacancies by B6. WN will now on a temporary basis operate 16 daily flights June-September.
4 OAK,4 SMF, 4 SJC, 3 LAS and 1 DEN.
I believe on October 1,2019 the new permanent awarded slots go into affect.
Who's getting what hasn't officially been announced by LGB airport. Currently the rumors are AA,DL and HA all passed on additional slots.
Flyguy


After LGB wielding the heavy hand of government, and thinking that government knows business better than businesses, I will LMAO of these returned slots sit unused.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:01 pm
by Bluewho
wnflyguy wrote:
Well with nobody else jumping into using the 10 vacancies by B6. WN will now on a temporary basis operate 16 daily flights June-September.
4 OAK,4 SMF, 4 SJC, 3 LAS and 1 DEN.
I believe on October 1,2019 the new permanent awarded slots go into affect.
Who's getting what hasn't officially been announced by LGB airport. Currently the rumors are AA,DL and HA all passed on additional slots.
Flyguy



So in the article posted that started this thread.

West’s memo to the council, he wrote that JetBlue is “currently not on pace to meet the minimum use requirement of 70% for the first calendar quarter of 2019.”

If new permanent flight slots become available, West wrote, Hawaiian Airlines is first on the waiting list, followed by Delta Airlines.



What is the point of a waiting list if you don’t actually want them? Seems to me this is all about SWA getting slots while saying no all these other airlines want them. How about we just call it what it is. We won’t even get into the fact that the city council didn’t want a FIS because that would cause more flights but apparently the airport is annoyed that JetBlue does not use their slots enough. So we don’t want more flights but you better use your slots fully. JetBlue wasn’t even asking for more slots just to use them in a different way if they got a FIS. This is SWA wants JetBlue gone from LGB and it seems like so does LGB. I’ll laugh if JetBlue finally says pound sand and SWA pulls PHL version 2

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:59 pm
by Aptivaboy
tphuang, its a convenience issue. As an Orange Countian, I absolutely DESPITE the drive up to LAX, and I'm not too fond about LAX itself, either. LGB offers amazing convenience for those in the mid to north part of the county, not to mention others in LA County. Its worth perhaps, perhaps paying a couple more dubloons to not have to deal with the madness that is LAX, and for a shorter commute time from home to LGB and back.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:14 pm
by wnflyguy
Well results are unofficial out DL applied on the last day.
DL will get 4 slots as requested.
WN will get 6 slots it requested all 10.
Early Rumors that DL was going to Add 2 SEA 1 ATL. Maybe we will see 2 SEA and 2 ATL.
WN will be temporary at 16 Daily flights 4 OAK,4 SJC,4 SMF,3 LAS, 1 DEN until
September 30th.
WN could technically shift to
3 OAK,3 SJC, 3 SMF, 2 LAS and 1 DEN to keep network coverage.
JetBlue still squatting on 2 of it's 24 slots.
So in theory WN can temporarily add an additional 1 OAK and 1 SMF.
But knowing WN it will probably just Do 4 OAK, 3 SMF, 3 SJC and 2 LAS
And keep running 1 Daily DEN on weekends.

Flyguy

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:52 pm
by compensateme
https://lbpost.com/news/southwest-delta ... h-airport/

DL lta gets four permanent slots, WN gets three plus three supplemental. I'd agree SEA and ATL will be the most logical markets for expansion -- either 2x or 3x to SEA and 1x or 2x to ATL. DL recently announced twice-daily service from ATL to ONT (and reduced SLC to 3x) and BUR (SLC 4x). SLC this summer is scheduled at 4x and 3x from B6; SEA has 2x from B6.

Aptivaboy wrote:
tphuang, its a convenience issue. As an Orange Countian, I absolutely DESPITE the drive up to LAX, and I'm not too fond about LAX itself, either. LGB offers amazing convenience for those in the mid to north part of the county, not to mention others in LA County. Its worth perhaps, perhaps paying a couple more dubloons to not have to deal with the madness that is LAX, and for a shorter commute time from home to LGB and back.


I always schedule my flights in the early morning or late evening if I'm going via LAX. A very easy drive via the 5->405. LGB isn't sufficient of a time savings to endure a connection, and parking can be a major hurdle (if it's not, it'll put a dent in your wallet).

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 1:32 am
by tphuang
wnflyguy wrote:
Well results are unofficial out DL applied on the last day.
DL will get 4 slots as requested.
WN will get 6 slots it requested all 10.
Early Rumors that DL was going to Add 2 SEA 1 ATL. Maybe we will see 2 SEA and 2 ATL.
WN will be temporary at 16 Daily flights 4 OAK,4 SJC,4 SMF,3 LAS, 1 DEN until
September 30th.
WN could technically shift to
3 OAK,3 SJC, 3 SMF, 2 LAS and 1 DEN to keep network coverage.
JetBlue still squatting on 2 of it's 24 slots.
So in theory WN can temporarily add an additional 1 OAK and 1 SMF.
But knowing WN it will probably just Do 4 OAK, 3 SMF, 3 SJC and 2 LAS
And keep running 1 Daily DEN on weekends.

Flyguy


it's not called squatting when they are utilizing more than 85% of their slots. There is no slot controlled airport that says you need to use 100% of your slots at all times.

btw, B6 must be pretty happy by this result. DL with 2 flights to ATL is no threat to them. DL with 2 flights to SEA is not a big deal. If B6 can run AS off LGB-SEA, they will have no problem with DL. It's kind of crazy to me DL would contemplate going on this route.

On the other hand, WN loosing 4 slots will definitely help out B6. If I were WN, I'd just cut SJC completely or LAS/DEN. All 3 of them are huge money losers. The only 2 routes WN is performing even mildly acceptable right now are OAK/SMF. Cutting those further back would be really unwise given that LGB is already so much weaker schedule wise than other airports.

It's becoming more and more likely that B6 can hang on at LGB. All depends if they are willing to run a station that barely breaks even when their margins are down elsewhere. I don't see how WN lasts another 2 years at their current schedule and SEA won't last for DL. LGB will be back to being an airport with slots that nobody want.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 2:32 am
by carljanderson
As an Orange County resident, and DL flier I am rooting for 2x ATL at least. I would love to fly out of LGB more.

Why SEA? How are the loads and yields on the SNA-SEA route? Also, if they wanted Seattle they could have done it on a CRJ7 whenever they wanted, as the CRJ7 fits in the commuter slot as defined by 16.43.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 2:59 pm
by AAflyguy
DL LGB-SLC NOV 4>5[4] JAN 4>5[4] FEB 4>5[4]

Not sure if DL already had 5 slots @ LGB but, if not, this is the first reveal of how they intend to utilize one of the 4 new slots they’re getting. 5x daily E175’s.

AAflyguy

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:58 pm
by MDGLongBeach
AAflyguy wrote:
DL LGB-SLC NOV 4>5[4] JAN 4>5[4] FEB 4>5[4]

Not sure if DL already had 5 slots @ LGB but, if not, this is the first reveal of how they intend to utilize one of the 4 new slots they’re getting. 5x daily E175’s.

AAflyguy

Exciting, but we all REALLY want to know is whether they’re gonna add ATL service or not. Any new rumors regarding that now?

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:51 pm
by slcdeltarumd11
I would have to think going 5x 175 sounds like that is their strategy for long Beach. Frequent service to the closest hub to sit on slots. Not too bad would offer a consistent product and good time options for people who really like Long Beach.

I would think no ATL unless they end up with slots they have to use? Nothing has stopped delta from adding ATL they have mainline slots. I wish they would add ATL but doesn't seem likely

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:54 pm
by wnflyguy
I can see DL adding
2 SEA and 1 ATL.
LGB-SEA Skywest E175
06:45-10:00
15:00-18:00
SEA-LGB
11:00-14:00
18:00-21:00
LGB-ATL A220
21:30-04:45+1
ATL-LGB
18:30-20:30

Flyguy

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:34 pm
by MIflyer12
carljanderson wrote:
As an Orange County resident, and DL flier I am rooting for 2x ATL at least. I would love to fly out of LGB more.


I think DL will be wary of competing too much with its LAX-ATL and SNA-ATL (4X 757) services. ONT-ATL isn't even 2x daily x7.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:14 pm
by jetbluefan1
MDGLongBeach wrote:
AAflyguy wrote:
DL LGB-SLC NOV 4>5[4] JAN 4>5[4] FEB 4>5[4]

Not sure if DL already had 5 slots @ LGB but, if not, this is the first reveal of how they intend to utilize one of the 4 new slots they’re getting. 5x daily E175’s.

AAflyguy

Exciting, but we all REALLY want to know is whether they’re gonna add ATL service or not. Any new rumors regarding that now?


Wouldn't it be funny if DL added LGB-JFK?

I remember back in the early/mid-2000's, AA was running LGB-JFK 3x (and I think SNA-JFK multiple times daily) to try to squeeze B6 out. My, how things have changed.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I would have to think going 5x 175 sounds like that is their strategy for long Beach. Frequent service to the closest hub to sit on slots. Not too bad would offer a consistent product and good time options for people who really like Long Beach.

I would think no ATL unless they end up with slots they have to use? Nothing has stopped delta from adding ATL they have mainline slots. I wish they would add ATL but doesn't seem likely
MIflyer12 wrote:
carljanderson wrote:
As an Orange County resident, and DL flier I am rooting for 2x ATL at least. I would love to fly out of LGB more.


I think DL will be wary of competing too much with its LAX-ATL and SNA-ATL (4X 757) services. ONT-ATL isn't even 2x daily x7.


I agree the 5x to SLC is pretty sound strategy on DL's end. I would suspect the remaining 3x will go to SEA (with perhaps the intent of squeezing B6 out of the market and also increasing its appeal to its growing customer base in Seattle and LA Basin).

IMO any flying that isn't west of the Rockies is doomed to fail. I can't see ATL working as it would cannibalize its own (higher yielding) traffic at SNA (and LAX).

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:19 pm
by carljanderson
MIflyer12 wrote:
carljanderson wrote:
As an Orange County resident, and DL flier I am rooting for 2x ATL at least. I would love to fly out of LGB more.


I think DL will be wary of competing too much with its LAX-ATL and SNA-ATL (4X 757) services. ONT-ATL isn't even 2x daily x7.


I agree. It is more a wish and a prayer than anything else. With the "SkyWay at LAX" under full swing now, I would love more DL options from LGB and miss that construction for a bit.. SNA gets pricey.

As far as SEA, remember AS couldn't make it work and DL could have started it anytime with CRJ7's.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:29 pm
by compensateme
MIflyer12 wrote:
carljanderson wrote:
As an Orange County resident, and DL flier I am rooting for 2x ATL at least. I would love to fly out of LGB more.


I think DL will be wary of competing too much with its LAX-ATL and SNA-ATL (4X 757) services. ONT-ATL isn't even 2x daily x7.


I agree with this. Unless you live in the northwestern communities surrounding the 405, I don't see the point. LGB is past the construction zone on the 405, and the 405 moves quite smoothly the extra 20 minutes (maybe 25 in heavy traffic) to LAX. If you're going to connect in ATL, you'd be better off at SNA, otherwise the extra ~45 minutes (for OC commuters) will connect you nonstop most anywhere in the world - much faster than any connection.

carljanderson wrote:
I agree. It is more a wish and a prayer than anything else. With the "SkyWay at LAX" under full swing now, I would love more DL options from LGB and miss that construction for a bit.. SNA gets pricey..


I highly doubt DL's going to add service to LGB that undercuts SNA. Ultimately, the lion's share of its LGB catchment -- the NW OC communities -- will also consider SNA...

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:41 pm
by slcdeltarumd11
I can't see SEA with less than 3x daily to be competitive for flyers. Even then the service will come at the expense of SNA and lax flights that are not over full sold most of the time. That seems the harder route.

ATL I think is alot more likely. Delta has the connection people. Again delta could start this yesterday though. 1x is fine doesn't even have to be daily.

I think Delta is only Interested in the slot holding portion of long Beach. It's a good investment if lax goes slot controlled or something down the road or to have something that southwest airlines wants ? SLC is an easy fill and they love spoiling B6 fares and competition on the route.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 7:04 pm
by tphuang
jetbluefan1 wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
AAflyguy wrote:
DL LGB-SLC NOV 4>5[4] JAN 4>5[4] FEB 4>5[4]

Not sure if DL already had 5 slots @ LGB but, if not, this is the first reveal of how they intend to utilize one of the 4 new slots they’re getting. 5x daily E175’s.

AAflyguy

Exciting, but we all REALLY want to know is whether they’re gonna add ATL service or not. Any new rumors regarding that now?


Wouldn't it be funny if DL added LGB-JFK?

I remember back in the early/mid-2000's, AA was running LGB-JFK 3x (and I think SNA-JFK multiple times daily) to try to squeeze B6 out. My, how things have changed.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I would have to think going 5x 175 sounds like that is their strategy for long Beach. Frequent service to the closest hub to sit on slots. Not too bad would offer a consistent product and good time options for people who really like Long Beach.

I would think no ATL unless they end up with slots they have to use? Nothing has stopped delta from adding ATL they have mainline slots. I wish they would add ATL but doesn't seem likely
MIflyer12 wrote:
carljanderson wrote:
As an Orange County resident, and DL flier I am rooting for 2x ATL at least. I would love to fly out of LGB more.


I think DL will be wary of competing too much with its LAX-ATL and SNA-ATL (4X 757) services. ONT-ATL isn't even 2x daily x7.


I agree the 5x to SLC is pretty sound strategy on DL's end. I would suspect the remaining 3x will go to SEA (with perhaps the intent of squeezing B6 out of the market and also increasing its appeal to its growing customer base in Seattle and LA Basin).

IMO any flying that isn't west of the Rockies is doomed to fail. I can't see ATL working as it would cannibalize its own (higher yielding) traffic at SNA (and LAX).


As funny as it is for me to say this. B6 actually has pretty strong point of sale at LGB. It's like, if someone is coming to LGB, they are expecting to fly B6. Even AS couldn't make SEA work. DL trying JFK or SEA would be pretty funny for me. They are smart to have stuck with SLC thus far. The only other route I could see working for DL here are ATL or MSP.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:11 pm
by LAXintl
Update on Southwest schedule plans with added slots.

Image

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:46 pm
by lightsaber
tphuang wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
Exciting, but we all REALLY want to know is whether they’re gonna add ATL service or not. Any new rumors regarding that now?


Wouldn't it be funny if DL added LGB-JFK?

I remember back in the early/mid-2000's, AA was running LGB-JFK 3x (and I think SNA-JFK multiple times daily) to try to squeeze B6 out. My, how things have changed.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I would have to think going 5x 175 sounds like that is their strategy for long Beach. Frequent service to the closest hub to sit on slots. Not too bad would offer a consistent product and good time options for people who really like Long Beach.

I would think no ATL unless they end up with slots they have to use? Nothing has stopped delta from adding ATL they have mainline slots. I wish they would add ATL but doesn't seem likely
MIflyer12 wrote:

I think DL will be wary of competing too much with its LAX-ATL and SNA-ATL (4X 757) services. ONT-ATL isn't even 2x daily x7.


I agree the 5x to SLC is pretty sound strategy on DL's end. I would suspect the remaining 3x will go to SEA (with perhaps the intent of squeezing B6 out of the market and also increasing its appeal to its growing customer base in Seattle and LA Basin).

IMO any flying that isn't west of the Rockies is doomed to fail. I can't see ATL working as it would cannibalize its own (higher yielding) traffic at SNA (and LAX).


As funny as it is for me to say this. B6 actually has pretty strong point of sale at LGB. It's like, if someone is coming to LGB, they are expecting to fly B6. Even AS couldn't make SEA work. DL trying JFK or SEA would be pretty funny for me. They are smart to have stuck with SLC thus far. The only other route I could see working for DL here are ATL or MSP.

ATL would work. It needs frequency though. DL could right gauge with the A220.

Lightsaber

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:37 pm
by slcdeltarumd11
I think per seat costs would be too high with 220 on such a long flight. One red-eye East and good timing evening west would work for most people. Not sure if delta wants to undercut it's SNA and LAX demand though. Again nothing has stopped delta from trying ATL they have had slots they have chosen not to.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:55 am
by ScottB
tphuang wrote:
it's not called squatting when they are utilizing more than 85% of their slots. There is no slot controlled airport that says you need to use 100% of your slots at all times.


Oh, it's still squatting if they never use their full allotment of slots. The intent of allowing less than 100% utilization is to let airlines adjust to seasonal variations in demand. But if they have 24 slots and never use more than 21 or 22, they're still squatting, even if they won't be penalized.

tphuang wrote:
btw, B6 must be pretty happy by this result. DL with 2 flights to ATL is no threat to them. DL with 2 flights to SEA is not a big deal. If B6 can run AS off LGB-SEA, they will have no problem with DL. It's kind of crazy to me DL would contemplate going on this route.


I don't necessarily agree that this is a good result for B6. They're going to face incrementally stronger competition from DL on LGB-SLC and if DL adds LGB-SEA, B6 loses a monopoly market from LGB. Assuming DL were to use E175s, we'd probably see an additional 150-225 seats daily each way. Not good for yields.

tphuang wrote:
On the other hand, WN loosing 4 slots will definitely help out B6. If I were WN, I'd just cut SJC completely or LAS/DEN. All 3 of them are huge money losers. The only 2 routes WN is performing even mildly acceptable right now are OAK/SMF. Cutting those further back would be really unwise given that LGB is already so much weaker schedule wise than other airports.


Well, if we take this argument to its logical conclusion, WN losing 4 slots helps WN, too! They're going to cut most service to LAS & DEN, so that reduces their losses at LGB. The end of LGB-DEN doesn't really help B6 since it's not a market they serve.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:59 pm
by tphuang
ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
it's not called squatting when they are utilizing more than 85% of their slots. There is no slot controlled airport that says you need to use 100% of your slots at all times.


Oh, it's still squatting if they never use their full allotment of slots. The intent of allowing less than 100% utilization is to let airlines adjust to seasonal variations in demand. But if they have 24 slots and never use more than 21 or 22, they're still squatting, even if they won't be penalized.

well, I wouldn't call using 85% of slots as squatting. But even if they are, the are under no obligation to use more. It would be crazy for an airport to require airlines to use 100% of slots.

tphuang wrote:
btw, B6 must be pretty happy by this result. DL with 2 flights to ATL is no threat to them. DL with 2 flights to SEA is not a big deal. If B6 can run AS off LGB-SEA, they will have no problem with DL. It's kind of crazy to me DL would contemplate going on this route.


I don't necessarily agree that this is a good result for B6. They're going to face incrementally stronger competition from DL on LGB-SLC and if DL adds LGB-SEA, B6 loses a monopoly market from LGB. Assuming DL were to use E175s, we'd probably see an additional 150-225 seats daily each way. Not good for yields.

tphuang wrote:
On the other hand, WN loosing 4 slots will definitely help out B6. If I were WN, I'd just cut SJC completely or LAS/DEN. All 3 of them are huge money losers. The only 2 routes WN is performing even mildly acceptable right now are OAK/SMF. Cutting those further back would be really unwise given that LGB is already so much weaker schedule wise than other airports.


Well, if we take this argument to its logical conclusion, WN losing 4 slots helps WN, too! They're going to cut most service to LAS & DEN, so that reduces their losses at LGB. The end of LGB-DEN doesn't really help B6 since it's not a market they serve.


Yes, not flying to LGB would generally help WN's bottomline. And the fare numbers are publicly available if you don't believe me. For example for Q4, WN's fare on LGB-LAS was 82.4 and 144.6 on BUR-LAS. Pretty big difference.

Also I get the sense that B6's performance on these route is really not a function of how much competition they have out of LGB but rather how many flights they operate and how much capacity there is across LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA. Among SFO/OAK/SJC, OAK was the highest yielding destination despite WN increasing to 4 flights a day. SFO was less with no competition in Q4. SJC was much lower yielding with no competition in Q4. So I think that all the capacity to SJC from SNA/BUR/LAX has a pretty large affect on the numbers. It's clear at this point that they simply cannot run a half-business schedule out of LGB for intra-west coast. They get killed with that. But they seem to be able run a leisure schedule out of LGB and break even. I could see B6 cutting SJC back to once daily with WN's increase at SJC and then moving that flight to LAS.

As for DL, 1 of the 4 slots is going to SLC. I don't see that being a huge problem. That's a 10% increase in capacity. I don't see LGB-SEA from DL. To give an example, DL's yield on SNA-SLC on mainline was over 40% higher than DL's yield on LGB-SLC on RJ. If you apply that ratio to SNA-SEA, LGB-SNA would have a completely unworkable. Think about it, even AS could not make LGB-SEA work and DL is a whole lot weaker at SEA than AS.
Well

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:28 pm
by ScottB
tphuang wrote:
As for DL, 1 of the 4 slots is going to SLC. I don't see that being a huge problem. That's a 10% increase in capacity. I don't see LGB-SEA from DL. To give an example, DL's yield on SNA-SLC on mainline was over 40% higher than DL's yield on LGB-SLC on RJ. If you apply that ratio to SNA-SEA, LGB-SNA would have a completely unworkable. Think about it, even AS could not make LGB-SEA work and DL is a whole lot weaker at SEA than AS.


If Delta accepted four slots and is using one for SLC, then they have plans for three more. I strongly doubt they'd jump into ATL-LGB with 3x daily and I also don't think they'd add MSP-LGB, DTW-LGB, or JFK-LGB. The only logical conclusion is that they plan a somewhat business-friendly 3x daily SEA-LGB service.

tphuang wrote:
well, I wouldn't call using 85% of slots as squatting. But even if they are, the are under no obligation to use more. It would be crazy for an airport to require airlines to use 100% of slots.


As it turned out, slot-squatting was an ineffective strategy at LGB since the City allowed other carriers (WN) to temporarily use B6's unused slot capacity and ultimately tightened up the rules on utilization.

tphuang wrote:
Also I get the sense that B6's performance on these route is really not a function of how much competition they have out of LGB but rather how many flights they operate and how much capacity there is across LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA. Among SFO/OAK/SJC, OAK was the highest yielding destination despite WN increasing to 4 flights a day. SFO was less with no competition in Q4. SJC was much lower yielding with no competition in Q4. So I think that all the capacity to SJC from SNA/BUR/LAX has a pretty large affect on the numbers.


But OAK has as much capacity to the L.A. Basin airports as SJC, if not more. I suspect that part of the relative strength of OAK is that it's a somewhat more distinct Bay Area sub-market than SJC; even though it is closer to SFO than SJC as the crow flies, the bridge crossing involved (or from the North Bay, not having to drive on S.F. city streets) leads to stronger passenger preference for OAK). Passengers are willing to accept a somewhat less frequent schedule at LGB as compared to SNA and LAX. I think the yields to SFO are terrible simply because there's no way a 2x daily schedule is competitive with the dozens of flights at LAX.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:42 pm
by carljanderson
LGB-LAS. October 29. Per crankyflier.

https://mobile.twitter.com/crankyflier/ ... 5512296449

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:30 pm
by tphuang
This is just comical beyond belief.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:54 am
by STT757
carljanderson wrote:
LGB-LAS. October 29. Per crankyflier.

https://mobile.twitter.com/crankyflier/ ... 5512296449


That’s just nuts. Why doesn’t UA apply for
Slots to launch LGB-SFO?

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:06 am
by carljanderson
STT757 wrote:

That’s just nuts. Why doesn’t UA apply for
Slots to launch LGB-SFO?


They could have when the slots were available. They still can apply for some of the 25 commuter slots available. (CRJ7 or lighter).

Guessing they don't think they can make money.

Delta is just squatting right now.

Re: LGB seeks to crack down on JetBlue slot usage

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:35 am
by ucdtim17
SEA was unlikely, but nothing else was more likely, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯